What do PvPers want?

[jmdatcs]

better class balance

 

Never going to happen. You want that, fps games are for you. MMOs based on the trinity can't be balanced because each class has a different role. I suppose it could happen if they made the queue so restrictive it took into account team composition and made sure you only went up against a team with the same/mirror classes.

 

Your playing the wrong game.

 

This is off topic anyway. Balance would be qol, along with bugs and rewards. And they do (way to slowly I think we all agree) constantly address this, little by little.

 

The topic is:

 

What "new" thing do you think you'll get. Do you think there will ever be anything but new skins? If not, how many skins = big, or close enough for no QQ?

Edited July 17, 2013 by jmdatcs

[Neglience]

the topic is What do PvPers want? not what you want it to be now.

 

In PvP you do one thing, kill other players. Sometimes it's open world, sometimes you do it to capture and hold territory/node, sometimes you capture a flag and run in back, sometimes it is just a deathmatch. Deathmatch is the one thing missing, and now it has been added.

 

New PvE means new story, new locations, new enimies, new mechanics. That is the nature of PvE. New PvP means re-skinning one of the objectives listed above. That is the nature of PvP

 

this is soo not true. pvp can have new mechanics, can have new locations, can have story elements. you might take a look at daoc, warhammer, gw2, archeage, age of conan just to name a few games with pvp mechanics not even close to be implemented in swtor.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Neglience

[Ottoattack]

I see a lot of QQ threads from PvPers about update 2.4 but I don't understand what they wanted.

 

What PvP expectations are being let down?

 

In PvP you do one thing, kill other players. Sometimes it's open world, sometimes you do it to capture and hold territory/node, sometimes you capture a flag and run in back, sometimes it is just a deathmatch. Deathmatch is the one thing missing, and now it has been added.

 

Well, apparently you do not PvP at all so you have no idea what are PvP issues and why PvPers are not happy. To give you a hint, PvP is running with issues that are much deeper than adding one map or one mode, that PvPers where expecting BW to resolve in ver 2.4. The BW PR stunt of what coming did not even hint at any of these issues, they simply waved that a new mode is coming which completely does not work in the current class balance system that we have.

 

Also, while killing other players can be fun, no the purpose is not to "kill other players." The goal is to out skill and out smart the human opposition in capturing/defending an objective/territory. It involves strategy and skill which employees using different classes to perform different roles. What arenas do is simply reduce all strategies into one: survivability, thus aside from overall revamp of trees for all classes that is 10 times larger than the expansion, only 2-3 classes can compete successfully in arenas and with one strategy, focus fire then run before you die.

 

As person who plays both PvP and PvE, so far (while early to judge) 2.4 looks like great PvE update and mediocre PvP update.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Ottoattack

[jmdatcs]

the topic is What do PvPers want? not what you want it to be now.

 

 

 

this is soo not true. pvp can have new mechanics, can have new locations, can have story elements. you might take a look at daoc, warhammer, gw2, archeage, age of conan just to name a few games with pvp mechanics not even close to be implemented in swtor.

 

If this is true, what do you want, specifically? How do you expect them to make it new and fresh and not just give you a new skin?

 

Reading these responses I can't help but think you are all just waiting for Godot and doomed to be perpetually disappointed.

[aeterno]

I want them to start copying other games.

 

Battlegrounds, sieges, whatever worked or could have worked in other mmos.

 

4v4 arenas are part of that I guess, but an underwhelming part. Its Star WARS, it would be nice to have 40v40 not 4v4.

[Tatanka]

"Let them eat brioche"

/shoos everyone away

/snobface

They want their brioche.

 

They also want to maul your character and take your brioche.

 

Maybe that's why you see so many PVPers use body type four. Too much brioche.

[Neglience]

If this is true, what do you want, specifically? How do you expect them to make it new and fresh and not just give you a new skin?

 

Reading these responses I can't help but think you are all just waiting for Godot and doomed to be perpetually disappointed.

 

men i already stated what I want. And if the engine for this is a problem (though there are ways to make it happen even with this crap engine), bw has to get his asses together and MAKE it work. they can make changes to their engine. i thought this is a triple A studio and not just a random f2p game which happens to has a strong licence ()

Edited July 17, 2013 by Neglience

[jmdatcs]

Well, apparently you do not PvP at all so you have no idea what are PvP issues and why PvPers are not happy. To give you a hint, PvP is running with issues that are much deeper than adding one map or one mode, that PvPers where expecting BW to touch base on. The BW PR stunt of what coming did not even hint at any of these issues, they simply waved that a new mode is coming which completely does not work in the current class balance system that we have.

 

Also, while killing other players can be fun, no the purpose is not to "kill other players." The goal is to out skill and out smart the human opposition in capturing/defending an objective/territory. It involves strategy and skill which employees using different classes to perform different roles. What arenas do is simply reduce all strategies into one: survivability, thus aside from overall revamp of trees for all classes that is 10 times larger than the expansion, only 2-3 classes can compete successfully in arenas and with one strategy, focus fire then run before you die.

 

I do PvP. I just do it in a PvP game, cod.

 

As for your second paragraph: Is that not what you do in the current WZs? What do you want, other than new skins to demonstrate the skills you are currently demonstrating. (BTW: those "skills" you demonstrate involve killing other players to allow you to gain/hold territory or move across the map)

 

None of the responses seem to be able to actually articulate what BW can do to make anything "new". And if there isn't anything new to add, what do you think you'll get other than new skins?

[TheNahash]

They want their brioche.

 

They also want to maul your character and take your brioche.

 

Maybe that's why you see so many PVPers use body type four. Too much brioche.

 

Yeah, sometimes I do blame the brioche

[frankiejo]

Never going to happen. You want that, fps games are for you. MMOs based on the trinity can't be balanced because each class has a different role. I suppose it could happen if they made the queue so restrictive it took into account team composition and made sure you only went up against a team with the same/mirror classes.

 

Your playing the wrong game.

 

This is off topic anyway. Balance would be qol, along with bugs and rewards. And they do (way to slowly I think we all agree) constantly address this, little by little.

 

The topic is:

 

What "new" thing do you think you'll get. Do you think there will ever be anything but new skins? If not, how many skins = big, or close enough for no QQ?

 

moron.

 

Instead of developers spending hundreds of man-hours on new operations, they could have spent that time improving class-balance in pvp. this is what pvpers want, that's the question that was asked, that's the answer.

 

No it wouldn't be perfect, but i can think of about a dozen GLARING issues that should have been fixed already, many of which have been complained about since release without so much as a response.

 

If developers spent the same amount of time and resources on PvP as they did on PvE complaints would be curbed substantially, but instead they offer token benefits while ignoring the numerous concerns PvP players have been posting since release.

 

Everything else I listed is true too, and each and everyone of them should have been prioritized months ago, at the very least should be included in the "PvP" update, but in reality will never be addressed because that would require Bioware spending time energy and money on PvP which is not their concern, nor will it be until they can charge us Cartel Coins to queue.

[Ottoattack]

I want them to start copying other games.

 

Battlegrounds, sieges, whatever worked or could have worked in other mmos.

 

4v4 arenas are part of that I guess, but an underwhelming part. Its Star WARS, it would be nice to have 40v40 not 4v4.

 

Smashers will have a field day in 40v40

[frankiejo]

I do PvP. I just do it in a PvP game, cod.

 

As for your second paragraph: Is that not what you do in the current WZs? What do you want, other than new skins to demonstrate the skills you are currently demonstrating. (BTW: those "skills" you demonstrate involve killing other players to allow you to gain/hold territory or move across the map)

 

None of the responses seem to be able to actually articulate what BW can do to make anything "new". And if there isn't anything new to add, what do you think you'll get other than new skins?

 

better class balance

Skill or rating based matchmaking

OW pvp

elder game content and rewards exclusive to pvp

cross-server queues

 

 

You have the mental stamina of Terry Schaivo

[jmdatcs]

moron.

 

Instead of developers spending hundreds of man-hours on new operations, they could have spent that time improving class-balance in pvp. this is what pvpers want, that's the question that was asked, that's the answer.

 

No it wouldn't be perfect, but i can think of about a dozen GLARING issues that should have been fixed already, many of which have been complained about since release without so much as a response.

 

If developers spent the same amount of time and resources on PvP as they did on PvE complaints would be curbed substantially, but instead they offer token benefits while ignoring the numerous concerns PvP players have been posting since release.

 

Everything else I listed is true too, and each and everyone of them should have been prioritized months ago, at the very least should be included in the "PvP" update, but in reality will never be addressed because that would require Bioware spending time energy and money on PvP which is not their concern, nor will it be until they can charge us Cartel Coins to queue.

 

That is all just qol, and off topic. Still nothing new.

 

What do you think you will ever get that isn't just a new skin on the same objectives?

[frankiejo]

That is all just qol, and off topic. Still nothing new.

 

What do you think you will ever get that isn't just a new skin on the same objectives?

 

Skill or rating based matchmaking

OW pvp

elder game content and rewards exclusive to pvp

cross-server queues

 

 

You idiot.

 

 

It's not off-topic, this is what we wanted, this is what they should have concentrated on, Instead of asking what "new" content we want why not ask why we're dissastisfied with the update? We're dissastisfied with the update because they are not updating the broken class-balance system. They are not updating the broken matchmaking system that we've been asking for since release. They're not making OW pvp viable or adding an incentive for it. They're adding elder-game content for PvEers each update, while ignoring us entirely. They're refusing to include cross-server queues despite the fact that we've been asking for it since release.

Edited July 17, 2013 by frankiejo

[jmdatcs]

better class balance

Skill or rating based matchmaking

OW pvp

elder game content and rewards exclusive to pvp

cross-server queues

 

 

You have the mental stamina of Terry Schaivo

 

Again, none of that is new, despite the ninja-edit of your previous post. That is all just rewards and qol.

 

Do you ever think you will get any changes to gameplay that aren't just new skins on the same objectives?

[curtkram]

what's wrong with class balance (and please include specific ACs)? most classes are OP if you know what you're doing, and if you have a premade and get to pick which classes you're putting together so they can work together, all the better.

[Neglience]

That is all just qol, and off topic. Still nothing new.

 

What do you think you will ever get that isn't just a new skin on the same objectives?

 

i think the problem is, you just have no clue about pvp outside those battlefield, cod shooters. i already said to you, to take a look at the pvp from other MMOs. there are PVP MECHANICS OTHER THAN WHAT WE GOT IN SWTOR.

 

to make it shooter friendly. go and download planetside 2. a system like that can be realised in an MMO too. that is new, that is wanted and that we are NOT getting.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Neglience

[jmdatcs]

i think the problem is, you just have no clue about pvp outside those battlefield, cod shooters. i already said to you, to take a look at the pvp at other MMOs. there are PVP MECHANICS OTHER THAN WHAT WE GOT IN SWTOR.

 

to make it shooter friendly. go and download planetside 2. a system like that can be realised in an MMO too. that is new, that is wanted and that we are NOT getting.

 

Yes, you did say that. But you still seem unable to articulate exactly what those mechanics are and what makes them different from the standard OW, node, flag, and deathmatch that we are getting.

 

Is it just the feel? If the feel of doing the only things PvP has to offer with a lightsaber is not interesting to you now, what do you expect to change?

 

If a new type (arena) and new maps aren't enough, what new things, outside of rewards and qol, are you expecting to see?

Edited July 17, 2013 by jmdatcs

[frankiejo]

Again, none of that is new, despite the ninja-edit of your previous post. That is all just rewards and qol.

 

Do you ever think you will get any changes to gameplay that aren't just new skins on the same objectives?

 

I think they could do just that if they reallocated their resources to PVP, do you think they pulled 2 new operations out of their asses? No they spent time and money on it, time and money that should rightfully go toward PvP updates for what is supposed to be a PvP update. had they tasked each of the developers who worked on new operations to instead work on class-rebalancing and adding content for PvP players, they would have succeeded.

 

Again, because you are clearly a retard, i will end this post by calling you a retard.

[jmdatcs]

I think they could do just that if they reallocated their resources to PVP, do you think they pulled 2 new operations out of their asses? No they spent time and money on it, time and money that should rightfully go toward PvP updates for what is supposed to be a PvP update. had they tasked each of the developers who worked on new operations to instead work on class-rebalancing and adding content for PvP players, they would have succeeded.

 

Again, because you are clearly a retard, i will end this post by calling you a retard.

 

So you're saying:

 

Step 1: allocate more resources to PvP

Step 2: ???

Step 3: brand new and totally original style of gameplay

 

Like most, you seem unable to articulate any new type of gameplay. It seems you want something new, but are completely unable to articulate what that is. If you can't even imagine it, why do you expect BW to deliver it?

 

Face it, there are only a few different types of PvP, you have them all now and will see nothing new, outside of new skins. If you can't face that, you are doomed to be perpetually disappointed.

 

I understand it must be frustrating to try and get those gears to turn only to find them rusted together, but lashing out won't help.

Edited July 17, 2013 by jmdatcs

[Neglience]

Yes, you did say that. But you still seem unable to articulate exactly what those mechanics are and what makes them different from the standard OW, node, flag, and deathmatch that we are getting.

 

Is it just the feel? If the feel of doing the only things PvP has to offer with a lightsaber is not interesting to you now, what do you expect to change?

 

If a new type (arena) and new maps aren't enough, what new things, outside of rewards and qol, are you expecting to see?

 

i should stop to feed the troll.

 

THey could add a whole pvp planet with different zones, NPC guards, towers, outposts, mines which all can be conquered by one faction, claimes by guilds, upgraded with special defense systems and so forth. they could add rare spawning, rare materials (with maybe even a chance to get a legandary material) to create special items from crafters (even legendary).

they could add a pve instance onto that planet (with special items) which entrance is subject to capture and recapture by the factions. all this could create a living world, where the conlict between sith and republic has a meaning and players get benefits from beeing a part of it.

 

And we get,after over one year, 2 4on4 deathmatch arenas.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Neglience

[MosesMercury]

I would like Star Wars please. Like last 30 minutes of the movies.

Skirmish begins......

10 pilots jump in their min maxed ships and head into orbit for control of space.

50 assorted AC's of imperials rush toward the front lines of whatever backwater planet we are contesting this day.

A small assault team heads to a facility to give their faction the edge in battle.

 

If the pilots are successful, the ground teams receive a buff.

If the assault team is sucessful, the pilots and frontliners receive a buff.

The battle's victor is decided on the frontlines based on objectives and kills.

 

The events have a 1 hr timelimit. They backfill if people drop out. They occur every 3 hours.

If queued, you get a message popup 30 minutes before the battle with the details of what planet you will be fighting for. You use that time to mobilize and plan strats.

 

The victor gains control of the planet until it comes back into the rotation of planets. Large valor, comm rewards and titles. Perhaps, tokens for PvP gear, specialized dyes and armor markings.

 

That's what I want

[jmdatcs]

I would like Star Wars please. Like last 30 minutes of the movies.

Skirmish begins......

10 pilots jump in their min maxed ships and head into orbit for control of space.

50 assorted AC's of imperials rush toward the front lines of whatever backwater planet we are contesting this day.

A small assault team heads to a facility to give their faction the edge in battle.

 

If the pilots are successful, the ground teams receive a buff.

If the assault team is sucessful, the pilots and frontliners receive a buff.

The battle's victor is decided on the frontlines based on objectives and kills.

 

The events have a 1 hr timelimit. They backfill if people drop out. They occur every 3 hours.

If queued, you get a message popup 30 minutes before the battle with the details of what planet you will be fighting for. You use that time to mobilize and plan strats.

 

The victor gains control of the planet until it comes back into the rotation of planets. Large valor, comm rewards and titles. Perhaps, tokens for PvP gear, specialized dyes and armor markings.

 

That's what I want

 

Jesus, finally, it's like pulling teeth with you troglodytes.

 

That does seem fun as hell, but, unfortunately, I find it a little depressing. The reason for that is, I don't see them making that kind of investment. I think, for now, the development team is too small minded for this type of thing. Maybe after the CM puts them firmly in the black they will grow a pair and start on something like that.

 

I understand now. I wouldn't want to consciously realize what I really wanted if it was this unlikely either.

[frankiejo]

what's wrong with class balance (and please include specific ACs)? most classes are OP if you know what you're doing, and if you have a premade and get to pick which classes you're putting together so they can work together, all the better.

Here's some thoughts, feel free to agree or disagree.

 

*Operative healers need to have their healing output more dependent on their casted abilities.

*Mercs healers need a healing boost.

*Expertise healing debuff needs to be adjusted again

*Marauder/Sniper healing debuff should not respect the global cooldown, have no damage component and be boosted to 30%

*Cross healing bonus's need to go.

*Powertechs need some burst back

*Marauders need the range of obfuscation increased.

*Smash marauders need their perma snare on leap removed.

*Rage marauders and juggs need their smash damage lowered or to have the auto-crit removed.

*Operative roll needs a short CD with decreased energy cost

*Deception needs to have its maul damage shifted into discharge/shock. Low slash's needs a longer cooldown.

*Hunker down needs its cooldown increased or its duration cut in half.

*Madness sorcs need more efficient force management

*Madness sins need a complete revamp.

*Concealment operatives need a survivability CD or a damage increase to remain relative with Deception sins

*Snipers flashbang should be 10m

*Expertise should either be scrapped entirely or given it's own augment slot, and bolster should be removed or reworked.

[frankiejo]

So you're saying:

 

Step 1: allocate more resources to PvP

Step 2: ???

Step 3: brand new and totally original style of gameplay

 

Like most, you seem unable to articulate any new type of gameplay. It seems you want something new, but are completely unable to articulate what that is. If you can't even imagine it, why do you expect BW to deliver it?

 

Face it, there are only a few different types of PvP, you have them all now and will see nothing new, outside of new skins. If you can't face that, you are doomed to be perpetually disappointed.

 

I understand it must be frustrating to try and get those gears to turn only to find them rusted together, but lashing out won't help.

 

No you moron, nobody came out and said they needed to scrap the game and start over. You are the ONLY person who's saying we want a brand new pvp system, what we're saying, what I'm saying at the very least, is that we've requested they improve or fix several issues with PvP as it is now; most of which are such simple changes they're could be NO blow back for PvE. instead of fixing these issues (Such as lack of skill based match-making or a complete and utter lack of open-world PvP) they've spent the time and money elsewhere, including a new 4V4 system that we didn't even ask for (a system we've seen is incredibly flawed in WoW)

 

Let's just talk about the skill-based matchmaking. As of right now, about half of the games we play are either far too easy, or far too hard. If they wrote an algorithim to place players of similar rating on teams opposing one another (all they would need to consider is win/loss ratio and medals earned) then this would be all but completely solved overnight. That's a *********** huge improvement and would settle the biggest complaint PvPers make right now.

 

How can you not understand this? What's your *********** hang up with this "New" ********? This is the biggest thing we wanted in the 2.4 update, it's something the player-base has been complaining about since RELEASE and it has never ONCE even been addressed by BW. They have not even posted once, at any time "we hear you, we understand, this is what's pissing you off" We have been ENTIRELY ignored in the matters that matter to us, this being the chief one at the moment.

 

Now why don't you tell me, considering this is a pvp update being discussed, why did they spend hundreds of man-hours on pvE instead of addressing this one simple issue.

 

I also gave you 4 more in previous posts, all things they should be addressing proactively, all 4 things they are ignoring entirely.