LordArtemis Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) If I were to speculate I would say that it is likely the vast majority of SWTOR players are not in favor of anything that would represent a gate to gear check or a dps meter that others could use to gauge your performance. Nor do many likely support macro use in competitive play. That said I don't think most would take issue with addons that would add ease of play to individual play, or allow further UI customization like the change of colors. I would further speculate that addons like a gear check or community dps meter would rarely appeal to any other type of player besides a hardcore or traditional player, and that is no longer the focus audience for this game. Casuals have little need or desire for either item IMO. Edited July 18, 2013 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiJuanShenobi Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) How exactly are you supposed to tell how good some random guy you've never met that wants to join your pug group is? Gear is the only metric you have, as long as they have realistic requirements ( not "you need to have better gear than what actually drops in the instance") so do I not see the problem. It's a pug for a reason. You should deal with the hand you have been dealt. If the guy sucks then kick him. But judging him before he even tries based on some numbers crunching from some stupid add-on? Kills the game. I liken this to applying for high-end jobs online. These days, you can't walk into a business and speak to the boss to apply for work in an effort to show your intelligence and competency, you have to do it online while some desk-jockey judges you solely on your resume. Because of this, a very smart, highly personable person that could succeed at the job won't even get a phone call if his resume is compared to some mouth-breathing water-head who may meet more requirements than him on paper. Just because the dummy put more time in something to meet a requirement, he is more qualified than the smart, personable guy that may actually be a better fit for the position? Please. Judging someone via means of some numbers-crunching add-on is basically the same thing. You're judging someone based on what they look like on paper (or, in this case, on screen ) I could be a little undergeared but run your Operation like a BOSS but you wouldn't know it because, with this type of addon that you want, you wouldn't even give me a shot. Instead you would choose a guy who meets some 'score' who could end up being a freakin' idiot that will make you wipe all night. Instead of requesting some bs number crunching add-on, how about you not be lazy and ask about his knowledge on whatever run he is about to do? Sure there is a risk, but its a pug. Pugs aren't perfect. Join a good raid guild if you wanna run OPS with people who you KNOW are good. Edited July 18, 2013 by ObiJuanShenobi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 There are two general unwritten rules all players should follow IMO.... 1) Hardcore/Traditional players should not run in PUGs or SM content. That is the domain of casual players. 2) Casual players should not run in HM content or premades. That is the domain of hardcore players. If you decide to violate either one of these rules you should expect trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Hate to break it to you, but this happens with or without add-ons Way to take a statement out of context. Addons serve the self-interest.. and an otherwise good idea is distorted and the result is generally negative on the larger player base and the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) There are two general unwritten rules all players should follow IMO.... 1) Hardcore/Traditional players should not run in PUGs or SM content. That is the domain of casual players. 2) Casual players should not run in HM content or premades. That is the domain of hardcore players. If you decide to violate either one of these rules you should expect trouble. Heh. I have to say.... this is extremely well stated LA. Edited July 18, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I could be a little undergeared but run your Operation like a BOSS but you wouldn't know it because, with this type of addon that you want, you wouldn't even give me a shot. Instead you would choose a guy who meets some 'score' who could end up being a freakin' idiot that will make you wipe all night. Instead of requesting some bs number crunching add-on, how about you not be lazy and ask about his knowledge on whatever run he is about to do? Sure there is a risk, but its a pug. Pugs aren't perfect. Join a good raid guild if you wanna run OPS with people who you KNOW are good. Quoted for truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopiusz Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Way to take a statement out of context. Addons serve the self-interest.. and an otherwise good idea is distorted and the result is generally negative on the larger player base and the game. Can you back up that claim with examples that clearly prove your point? And I'm talking about genuine negative impact on player base, not a few bad apples that misuse addons like gearscore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Can you back up that claim with examples that clearly prove your point? And I'm talking about genuine negative impact on player base, not a few bad apples that misuse addons like gearscore. The genuine negative impacts to the player base and the game have been exemplified in a good number of posts by a range of respondents in this thread. Actually read them, rather then dismiss them. There is no need for me to go back and extract a cliff-notes version for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dismayven Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 dont want them, dont need them, i can do every single part of the game with my 2 hands, my mouse and keyboard without any sort of problem of any kind and i have been doing so since early access. Also i have been playing MMO's since the start of UO and i have NEVER used an add-on. people who do must be horribads. if u think add-ons are so necessary learn to play bra! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman_AZ Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 learn to play bra! I play with bras frequently. The wife is both impressed and bothered by the fact that I can do it one hand, no look, just by snapping my fingers On Topic: The addons to which I am referring are more QoL for interface and interaction and less combat specific. I just used Healbot as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopiusz Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) The genuine negative impacts to the player base and the game have been exemplified in a good number of posts by a range of respondents in this thread. Actually read them, rather then dismiss them. There is no need for me to go back and extract a cliff-notes version for you. If you don't, then how can I know which of those claims are you talking about? EDIT: To clarify: I don't want to pick them up by random trying to disprove them. You could then say that I intentionally chose the ones that were easy to refute, and I'm patronising you by assuming you have such and such views. You don't even need to list them for me, just give me your best one. Edited July 18, 2013 by Kopiusz clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Yet there are still raids in WoW that are really damn hard and only very few guilds can clear even though the game has addons? There are easy encounters that you can do while watching TV in this game as well! And Bioware could very easily have blocked certain functions in the API if they didn't like those addons. Blizzard have been doing that forever to stop addons that they thought did to much. My point is... If the community needs it, it should be written into the standard interface. Maintaining APIs adds an entire layer of development that I am sure the SWTOR team doesn't have on their plate now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Heh. I have to say.... this is extremely well stated LA. It's been known to happen hehe. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsrachelm Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 While there are some good addons in MMOs. Most of them are crutches IMO.. where players soon begin playing the addons rather then the game and people exclude you from grouping if you don't have their required addons and submit yourself to gearcheck interrogations. This game is fine without addons. They will bring more harm then good IMO. Well, I don't have to go and say this now as you said it all for me. No add-ons, Bio-ware...please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 In my opinion, Blizzard did it both very right and very wrong in their mechanics for add-ons. What they did right: Essentially created a language in which they controlled what aspects of the games data the players could access and display in the add-ons created. Why this is "right": Because it puts the developers in direct control of what can and cannot be displayed in player created add-ons. In other words, if they discover a particular series of player created add-ons is trivializing content they can simply remove the data items from the available list which in turn breaks the add-on. What they did wrong: Too much combat-centric data was made available to utilize in the add-ons which resulted in many being created to make combat (either PvE or PvP) easier What that is "wrong": Because they can give unfair advantage to those using them over those that don't which, if Blizzard wanted everyone to have that functionality they should have just added it to the game themselves. And it also creates a culture in many guilds of "You must be running X, Y and Z add-ons if you want to raid with us" which is simply stupid and lazy (again, in my opinion.) As well as it can trivialize a good amount of the PvE content. So to me, things like Deadly Boss Mods (DBM), Healbot, etc. should have had their data ties neutered to prevent them being able to be created at all. On the flip side, add-ons like Altoholic, Gatherer and Enchantrix/Auctioneer are exactly the kinds of Quality of Life add-ons that should be allowed to be created. Again, for me it all starts with the developers taking control of what tie-ins to the API the modders are allowed access to and being both smart and judicious about choosing the data the modders can in turn, display in their add-ons. To paraphrase the old knight guarding the Holy Grail in the Indiana Jones movie, "They chose poorly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) I am not a fan of add-ons. Most of them are crutches anyways. I am especially not fond of anything that helps automate any part of the game while you are away or offline. Edited July 18, 2013 by TheBBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 While there are some good addons in MMOs. Most of them are crutches IMO.. where players soon begin playing the addons rather then the game and people exclude you from grouping if you don't have their required addons and submit yourself to gearcheck interrogations. This game is fine without addons. They will bring more harm then good IMO. Oh geezus...I agree....reluctantly...but I do agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts