Selenial Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 All those abilities that are common to both, it's clear that Malgus is very superior in all of them. Apart Force Concealment. Heh I'll leave this to you, Beni... Have a field day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Force drain, Shatterpoint and Force sight are the only ones would give her an edge. I'm pretty sure Malgus was capable of utilizing mind control and dark healing. And Force cloak, it's not just about power. All those abilities that are common to both, it's clear that Malgus is very superior in all of them. Apart Force concealment. Now, about the others (Tyrannus and Bane), I never stated that they were unquestionably superior to Traya. Perhaps you guys can convince me that she is superior to them, as Aurbere did about Krayt. But regarding Malgus, I'm pretty sure he's clearly more powerful than Traya.And it is in Force drain, Shatterpoint and Force sight that Traya has the most profoundly advanced ability. Furthermore it is pure assumption to say that Malgus is capable of mind control and/or dark healing and I highly doubt he was capable of mind-wiping a Force sensitive. I'd also point out that Traya is arguably one of the greatest healers ever seen, second only to Master Fay herself. She has survived near-death experiences, brought others back from the brink as well and killed with a thought. These abilities aren't just advanced, they are unprecedented. Now while yes Malgus has shown greater proficiency in Force lightning and telekinesis we have to remember that as an in-game character Traya has had little opportunity to demonstrate her ability in this field. That said a direct comparison between Darth Sion and Darth Malgus can be made. Now I feel Sion is somewhat underestimated, but we must remember he was able to stop himself from dying simply by fueling himself with dark side energy. This points to nothing other than a considerable amount of power - remembering that Malgus was able to endure pain and survival mortal injuries in a similar manner - yet Traya batted him aside like a fly. Take from that what you will, I am not definitively arguing Traya over Malgus, simply that Traya should not be underestimated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) And it is in Force drain, Shatterpoint and Force sight that Traya has the most profoundly advanced ability. Furthermore it is pure assumption to say that Malgus is capable of mind control and/or dark healing and I highly doubt he was capable of mind-wiping a Force sensitive. I'd also point out that Traya is arguably one of the greatest healers ever seen, second only to Master Fay herself. She has survived near-death experiences, brought others back from the brink as well and killed with a thought. These abilities aren't just advanced, they are unprecedented. Now while yes Malgus has shown greater proficiency in Force lightning and telekinesis we have to remember that as an in-game character Traya has had little opportunity to demonstrate her ability in this field. That said a direct comparison between Darth Sion and Darth Malgus can be made. Now I feel Sion is somewhat underestimated, but we must remember he was able to stop himself from dying simply by fueling himself with dark side energy. This points to nothing other than a considerable amount of power - remembering that Malgus was able to endure pain and survival mortal injuries in a similar manner - yet Traya batted him aside like a fly. Take from that what you will, I am not definitively arguing Traya over Malgus, simply that Traya should not be underestimated. No they aren't, they have been done, unless you been meaning for that time they were. Edited July 22, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcelo_sdk Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) And it is in Force drain, Shatterpoint and Force sight that Traya has the most profoundly advanced ability. Furthermore it is pure assumption to say that Malgus is capable of mind control and/or dark healing and I highly doubt he was capable of mind-wiping a Force sensitive. I'd also point out that Traya is arguably one of the greatest healers ever seen, second only to Master Fay herself. She has survived near-death experiences, brought others back from the brink as well and killed with a thought. These abilities aren't just advanced, they are unprecedented. Now while yes Malgus has shown greater proficiency in Force lightning and telekinesis we have to remember that as an in-game character Traya has had little opportunity to demonstrate her ability in this field. That said a direct comparison between Darth Sion and Darth Malgus can be made. Now I feel Sion is somewhat underestimated, but we must remember he was able to stop himself from dying simply by fueling himself with dark side energy. This points to nothing other than a considerable amount of power - remembering that Malgus was able to endure pain and survival mortal injuries in a similar manner - yet Traya batted him aside like a fly. Take from that what you will, I am not definitively arguing Traya over Malgus, simply that Traya should not be underestimated. Hmmm. Perhaps you are right on the first paragraph, I just don't agree that her abilities are unprecedented. I'm not sure that is true, we've seen another characters showing great displays of lightining and TK in-game. Anyway , if she didn't demonstrated, you are just assuming, like you said I did with Malgus healing and mind control. I disagree entirely. Darth Sion could use his anger to stay alive, true, but he never achieved the level of power that Malgus did. Plus, as Sion's anger and hatred were pretty much out of control, the guy killed everything on his path, Malgus ability to channel all his anger and hatred and stay totally foccused, are unprecedented, like said by Sidious himself. So yes, Traya shouldn't be underestimated, but Malgus either. EDIT: and let's remember, Sion was owned in all his "big" confrontations, against Traya and Surik. He was just able to overcome Traya on Trayus core with the help of Nihilus, which was a league above both Traya and Sion. Edited July 22, 2013 by marcelo_sdk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Hmmm. Perhaps you are right on the first paragraph, I just don't agree that her abilities are unprecedented. I'm not sure that is true, we've seen another characters showing great displays of lightining and TK in-game. Anyway , if she didn't demonstrated, you are just assuming, like you said I did with Malgus healing and mind control. I disagree entirely. Darth Sion could use his anger to stay alive, true, but he never achieved the level of power that Malgus did. Plus, as Sion's anger and hatred were pretty much out of control, the guy killed everything on his path, Malgus ability to channel all his anger and hatred and stay totally foccused, are unprecedented, like said by Sidious himself. So yes, Traya shouldn't be underestimated, but Malgus either. EDIT: and let's remember, Sion was owned in all his "big" confrontations, against Traya and Surik. He was just able to overcome Traya on Trayus core with the help of Nihilus, which was a league above both Traya and Sion.Sion may not have honed his anger to the level of Malgus, but he was still capable of channeling into his body and required eternal concentration on said anger and pain just to stay alive. I'd say that points to a level of control. The very fact he managed to keep himself alive through the sheer power of the Force indicates he is very powerful. And being beaten by Surik and Traya does not devalue his abilities at all. Simpy put, Traya ROFLstomps Sith Lords - take from that what you will. Edited July 22, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 No they aren't, they have been done, unless you been meaning for that time they were. Mind throwing a few examples out there? Never seen healing/force drain powers so powerful before, in a Sith. Or jedi really for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Mind throwing a few examples out there? Never seen healing/force drain powers so powerful before, in a Sith. Or jedi really for that matter. Cade, Krayt have done Dark Transfer thus bringing those back from the dead. When has Traya done so? The near death experiences....there are a few that have survived such. Edited July 22, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Cade, Krayt have done Dark Transfer thus bringing those back from the dead. When has Traya done so?Dark transfer is not the same as Force healing, it is an incredibly rare innate ability which can only be learned through study. How much power it requires is questionable, I'd theorize its more like essence transfer, which is a purely knowledge based power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Cade, Krayt have done Dark Transfer thus bringing those back from the dead. Interesting take on it, i wouldn't put Dark Transfer and her healing abilities as the same thing any day... but even if they mastered a similar thing to the level she did, they never managed To encompass all the abilities Beni listed above, and learn them as she did. In fact, no one did. Edited July 22, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Dark transfer is not the same as Force healing, it is an incredibly rare innate ability which can only be learned through study. How much power it requires is questionable, I'd theorize its more like essence transfer, which is a purely knowledge based power. Its still a power that brings back others from death so.. Edited July 22, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Its still a power that brings back others from death so....I guess, but it is doing it through other means, technically it is unprecedented. That said I fully accept Krayt over Traya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 If we are all in agreement that Krayt is above Traya, then let's focus on Malgus vs. Traya. To be perfectly honest, I think they are very close. Malgus has greater showings regarding raw (and I mean Chef Ramsey raw ) power, while Traya has shown a vastly superior command over esoteric abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 If we are all in agreement that Krayt is above Traya, then let's focus on Malgus vs. Traya. To be perfectly honest, I think they are very close. Malgus has greater showings regarding raw (and I mean Chef Ramsey raw ) power, while Traya has shown a vastly superior command over esoteric abilities. Traya decimated Sion with ease. It wouldn't be so simple with Malgus, but he'd still lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Traya decimated Sion with ease. It wouldn't be so simple with Malgus, but he'd still lose. Well, Sion's not exactly Malgus-tier, but the point remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Just a theory on Sion, you'd think that since he can't really die that he must have gotten sloppy or just didn't care in duels about defending himself? I kinda look at it like Heroes who have a healing factor, they don't seem to really defend from blows that would normally kill them and instead just seem to rely on their healing factors to deal with it. I mean why bother defending yourself, if you are unable to die and you could just tank whatever hits you ya know? Edited July 22, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Just a theory on Sion, you'd think that since he can't really die that he must have gotten sloppy or just didn't care in duels about defending himself? I kinda look at it like Heroes who have a healing factor, they don't seem to really defend from blows that would normally kill them and instead just seem to rely on their healing factors to deal with it. I mean why bother defending yourself, if you are unable to die and you could just tank whatever hits you ya know? An interesting point. I know I would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Just a theory on Sion, you'd think that since he can't really die that he must have gotten sloppy or just didn't care in duels about defending himself? I kinda look at it like Heroes who have a healing factor, they don't seem to really defend from blows that would normally kill them and instead just seem to rely on their healing factors to deal with it. I mean why bother defending yourself, if you are unable to die and you could just tank whatever hits you ya know? That point would make sense if Traya used methods normal sith could protect themselves from. Saber fights maybe, but force shields are dependant on ones power, not training/Slopiness, thus the point is moot. It was still impressive.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Well, Sion's not exactly Malgus-tier, but the point remains. Re read the second line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) That point would make sense if Traya used methods normal sith could protect themselves from. Saber fights maybe, but force shields are dependant on ones power, not training/Slopiness, thus the point is moot. It was still impressive.... This was completely unrelated to Traya, it was just something in general I thought about given Sion can't die unless he wanted to of course. Edited July 22, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 This was completely unrelated to Traya, it was just something in general I thought about given Sion can't die. Oh right, then yeh, I can't remember where but I could have sworn that was stated in Canon.... Either way, it's bound to happen... Take Achilles for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Oh right, then yeh, I can't remember where but I could have sworn that was stated in Canon.... Either way, it's bound to happen... Take Achilles for example. Ya except with Achilles, he had a weakpoint and wasn't sloppy. Sion doesn't have any particular weakpoints. Also thanks for that mental image of Achilles being a Jedi. Edited July 22, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Just a theory on Sion, you'd think that since he can't really die that he must have gotten sloppy or just didn't care in duels about defending himself? I kinda look at it like Heroes who have a healing factor, they don't seem to really defend from blows that would normally kill them and instead just seem to rely on their healing factors to deal with it. I mean why bother defending yourself, if you are unable to die and you could just tank whatever hits you ya know?I think that's likely the case. Just look at Darth Bane, when he donned the orbalisk armour he threw defense to the wind and his Djem So style become purely offensive - because if he got hit he didn't care. I mean, you'd have to be a seriously bad duelist to get that many injuries. EDIT: In fact he may even want to get injured, he needs pain to survive. Edited July 22, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I think that's likely the case. Just look at Darth Bane, when he donned the orbalisk armour he threw defense to the wind and his Djem So style become purely offensive - because if he got hit he didn't care. I mean, you'd have to be a seriously bad duelist to get that many injuries. EDIT: In fact he may even want to get injured, he needs pain to survive. O_O A masochist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I think that's likely the case. Just look at Darth Bane, when he donned the orbalisk armour he threw defense to the wind and his Djem So style become purely offensive - because if he got hit he didn't care. I mean, you'd have to be a seriously bad duelist to get that many injuries. EDIT: In fact he may even want to get injured, he needs pain to survive. He still had FAR more experience than Bane ever had, he fought in a time when the Dark Side was more permeable according to Darth Plagueis and he spent from the Exar Kun War to the Dark Wars killing all Jedi he came across. So whilst he may have gone down the Bane route, he still must have been very very experienced and very very well skilled with a lightsaber. He was after all chosen by the greatest duellist of the entire era, age, hell probably the best till the Golden Age of the Jedi, in Exar Kun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Re read the second line... That's why I said 'the point remains' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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