Petition to stop pretending Bolster was for new PvP'rs

[KamujinKravshera]

First, the idea of bolster is fine. The implementation is beyond terrible.

 

That said, if you like bolster, that fine, but can we at least stop pretending it was designed to help new PvP'rs? If this was true, the far simpler system of overriding a slot with recruit stats would have been used. If bolster was really for new PvP'rs, it could look at the players specialization and choose the right gear set for them. Would this be min / maxed and perfect? No, but again, if this was truly for new players, it would be quickly replaced with gear the player could customize. It would be good enough. Simple. Easy to develop.

 

The complexity of bolster is only need if you want to make it possible for people to keep PvPing in PvE gear indefinitely. By trying to translate each PvE piece into a PvP equivalent, they are trying to maintain the players customization choices. Allowing PvP customization with PvE components.

 

Bolster is not about new PvP'rs. It's about enhancing and extending the value of PvE gear. This would be fine if Bolster, a PvE feature, didn't come at the cost of needed PvP features.

 

This last point, is what I think bothers most PvP'rs that I know about bolster. I don't know many, if any, people having trouble competing with people in bolstered gear. I do know many people who feel that the development resources are being unequally applied to PvE.

[Atramar]

[...]

This last point, is what I think bothers most PvP'rs that I know about bolster. I don't know many, if any, people having trouble competing with people in bolstered gear. I do know many people who feel that the development resources are being unequally applied to PvE.

 

These people need to learn how to play instead of depending on gear advantage.

That's most peoples problem. With less gear advantage, recent 'pro' players who depended on min maxed elite war hero could stomp recruit players, now that advantage is gone, ground is almost equal (with higher stand for pvp gear, but on lesser degree), and you need to work for your kill.

 

Good players still own.

[Kawiki]

Bolster is stupid.

[Darkshadz]

Wait a minute where did they say that the bolster was specifically made for new PVPers?

 

edit: I'm not saying that it doesn't help them. However, that's not the main reason why they implemented the bolster. It's a blessing for PVPers who wanted PVP in SWTOR to be competitive.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Darkshadz

[kweassa]

...and what's wrong with people with PvE gear being accomodated so they have an easier and more user-friendly learning curve? I don't see anything particularly wrong with it.

 

If anything, I already know that a vast majority of people who exclusively PvE are usually sorely lacking in terms of skill, and they would need some help so they don't get too easily discouraged or shunned away from trying PvP out. Opening up the gates so much more people are encouraged to try PvP out is a good thing, not a bad one.

 

Besides, as a PvP player, it is simply pleasing to find that you don't need to go through the living hell that was "first entry to max-level bracket". Just get some Makeb-level mods to switch to, and although you're not as powerful as Partisans or Conquerors, you're still way more competent and viable as a teammember than anyone who used to equip recruit gear.

 

It benefits both PvP and PvE players equally, although different implications for each, but the results being the same: it lowers the grief factor and makes more worthy the skill factor.

 

If that's not the more befitting of PvP ideals, I don't know what is. Maybe I should start a petition at the same time so people would stop whining.

Edited July 16, 2013 by kweassa

[KamujinKravshera]

These people need to learn how to play instead of depending on gear advantage.

That's most peoples problem. With less gear advantage, recent 'pro' players who depended on min maxed elite war hero could stomp recruit players, now that advantage is gone, ground is almost equal (with higher stand for pvp gear, but on lesser degree), and you need to work for your kill.

 

Good players still own.

 

You really need to read what you're responding to, because what you quoted says exactly the opposite of what you think it does.

[KamujinKravshera]

...and what's wrong with people with PvE gear being accomodated so they have an easier and more user-friendly learning curve? I don't see anything particularly wrong with it.

 

Nothing, just don't package it as a PvP update when it's really PvE welfare.

[Atramar]

You really need to read what you're responding to, because what you quoted says exactly the opposite of what you think it does.

 

It says opposite, cause I don't agree with that. pve gear is not better then pvp gear in warzones. While it was badly implemented with devs ignoring signs from testers on exploits, it's mostly fixed and works as it should now.

it boosts properly your designed mods instead of giving fixed number of accuracy,def,etc

 

asking to remove bolster, is cry for help of players who used to have gear advantage over other players and can't cope without it.

Warzones are better and more equal now, and people can't complain about being outgeared. It truly shows how terribads some are.

[SomeJagoff]

First, the idea of bolster is fine. The implementation is beyond terrible.

 

Not sure why people keep saying that or if it's the same people who keep saying that. The idea itself of bolster is bad.

 

Bolster has fostered laziness amongst players by giving them, in some cases, top stats without having to invest any time or effort AT ALL pvping to get the PVP gear. The first 3 months was either go naked, go enhancementless, go augmentless, go in specific pve gear, etc, etc. to get TOP stats.

 

it's mostly fixed and works as it should now.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6499036#post6499036

 

That was more than 2 weeks ago, no response since.

 

Here's another bug:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=661023

 

asking to remove bolster, is cry for help of players who used to have gear advantage over other players and can't cope without it.

Warzones are better and more equal now, and people can't complain about being outgeared. It truly shows how terribads some are.

 

No, asking to remove bolster is a cry to get people who quit the game to come back to it, so that Everyone has to Earn their gear instead of being given it for free.

 

A free set of recruit gear would fix this problem.

 

Not good enough?

 

Okay, allow lvl 55 pvp gear to be purchased at any level. That would allow people to lowbie pvp WITH bolster, buy lvl 55 pvp gear, then once they hit 55, boom, equip it and gg, full set of pvp gear that you EARNED yourself.

 

I don't want premades taking advantage of undergeared pvpers (which obviously a lot of pvp guilds did), but I also don't want 0 incentive for getting stomped by said premades.

 

Under the old system: get stomped by premades, but each stomping gets you closer to a piece of gear to increase your stats.

 

Under the current system: get stomped by premades, but why bother getting any gear cause bolster will either keep your stats exactly the same or nerf them or maybe you'll get 1 extra point of expertise.

 

0 incentive to take the stompings and I would imagine 0 incentive to dish out stompings as well, since a lot of pvpers quit after 2.0 went live and after months of bugs.

 

So ultimately, no, bolster was never a good idea, removing a fundametal part of the game (gear progression/incentive to keep grinding/to stay subbed) is a flawed idea at its core. Bioware, at least, for whatever reason, had enough sense to not remove gear progression from PVE. If, however, that changes, expect the game to die shortly thereafter.

 

This game is an MMO and the main part of the experience is getting gear with better stats. If a part of the game makes it so that you have Really good/best stats wearing lvl 1 grey gear, then it's just a joke.

 

Even in context to 2.4, so long as there's a bolster in the new instanced arenas, there's going to be 0 incentive to get the new gear, cause your stats will likely continue to be the same/better with either pve gear or the current pvp gear.

 

The only place bolster belongs is in the lowbie 10-29 and 30-54 brackets. There it makes sense. At endgame 55? No. In endgame 55 ranked? No. In endgame 55 arenas? No.

[Atramar]

I didn't say it's completly fixed.

 

Makes people lazy? yeah, but no. I've seen many people who refused to pvp simply not to get owned for first 2 months of gear grind. Now they can enter and compete at some level (that didn't make them god pvpers, but they play as team and know their chars well, just had to work on pvp awarness).

no work at all? to make hard math argument about pvp gear vs pve gear, you need 69 and 72 grade pve gear and compare it with 63 grade pvp gear. even 66 grade pve gear does not come free, and have nothing to do with being lazy.

 

Thanks to bolster I could easly shift my pt tank into pvp gear without suffering recruit gear where my TANK was more squishy then Dps... tank I never intended for pvp, but wanted to give it a try and loved it.

and more pvp items I gather, more durable that tank is.

 

lazy people are still lazy and come in leveling greens to L 55 WZ and they are still easy pray for people like YOU who want gear advantage. They don't augment, they don't work on rotations.

 

work for the gear... yeah, right, good excuse. when game launched it was same people who argued they should keep RNG boxes with a chance of a gear... now that was fun, 1 month of pvp only, and had 4 pvp peaces, due to my low luck.. yyeah, that was super fun, they should bring it back.

They argued that comms will make people LAZY and that they should work hard for the gear just like THEY did, and suffer of beign undergeared LIKE THEY DID.

Later they argued about recruit gear, that it makes people lazy and it's too good.

 

pvp gear is still better and easy to min/max with comms to have gear advantage, small as it is, but it still exists. I see it on my pvp chars that with each peace I get I hit harder and live longer. If you think PVE gear is better, be my guest, WORK HARD for PvE gear and kick *** in warzones. being elite pvper means working hard for the gear right? no matter what it means - that's what hardcore means. ofc it won't happen, after a month of preparing for end game pve content, learning tactics and stuff, and then 5 weeks of harvesting NIM TFB and SV, you will get your shiny top pve stuff into a warzone, you will see how much it suck compared to first tier of pvp gear that you can aquire in 2 weeks.

 

edit: as for gearing up for L 55 while being under 55, hell no. don't force doing lowbies. lowbie pvp is awful, unbalanced, arrogant and simply stupid. I never ever ever want to set my foot in lowbie pvp. never. peroid.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Atramar

[Stoofa]

I played at least two characters that started their "grind" in Recruit (no recruit 2) gear and was of course going up against people in Elite Warhero.

I'm sorry, but 2 months of being "destroyed" in WZ's is completely rubbish. Within the first few days youw ere earning your first few tier 1 items and it took no longer than a couple of weeks to be fully geared in the stuff.

 

There seems to be this conception that people were just slaughtered when they first started Level 50 PvP. Even if this was the case for the first few zones (while people found their feet) it didn't last half as long as some claim.

Bolster as far as I can tell was designed to stop people needing to use recruit 2 gear. The system would give anyone entering PvP recruit 2 "stats" and anyone with higher tiered PvP gear would get a slight stat advantage.

Instead this hasn't happened and people are finding ways to exploit the system.

 

Remove bolster, redesign a "Recruit 3" set which becomes your new Tier 1 gear with Partisan becoming Tier 2 and Conqueror becoming Tier 3.

Still give it away - once a player reaches level 55, give it a "cannot sell" flag so people don't just vendor it away (and then add it to peoples collections so they can spawn another set if they accidentally delete it).

There we go - tiering of new PvP players sorted.

[Atramar]

I played at least two characters that started their "grind" in Recruit (no recruit 2) gear and was of course going up against people in Elite Warhero.

I'm sorry, but 2 months of being "destroyed" in WZ's is completely rubbish. Within the first few days youw ere earning your first few tier 1 items and it took no longer than a couple of weeks to be fully geared in the stuff.

 

There seems to be this conception that people were just slaughtered when they first started Level 50 PvP. Even if this was the case for the first few zones (while people found their feet) it didn't last half as long as some claim.

Bolster as far as I can tell was designed to stop people needing to use recruit 2 gear. The system would give anyone entering PvP recruit 2 "stats" and anyone with higher tiered PvP gear would get a slight stat advantage.

Instead this hasn't happened and people are finding ways to exploit the system.

 

Remove bolster, redesign a "Recruit 3" set which becomes your new Tier 1 gear with Partisan becoming Tier 2 and Conqueror becoming Tier 3.

Still give it away - once a player reaches level 55, give it a "cannot sell" flag so people don't just vendor it away (and then add it to peoples collections so they can spawn another set if they accidentally delete it).

There we go - tiering of new PvP players sorted.

 

2 months were for them as they were pve exclusive, and only would do 2-3 matches a day tops, or when ops team didn't happen (very rare in our guild by then), thanks to bolster, I see them more and more often doing pvp, and they don't feel like a fifth wheel.

people exploiting system are a problem, but it beats people in pve stats in a warzone. recruit gear wasn't bad idea, problem came with people refusing to use recruit gear. some argued that their stats are better, and you had 2 people in a warzone on your team that had mixed pve columi and recruit gear, as they claimed 'they have better stats in pve gear'.

other part, recruit gear was not moddable and pure ugly.

recruit gear was tried in 2 versions, both faild to do what it was designed for, so they evolved with bolster.

 

again, pve boltered gear is few % below first tier of pvp gear. with few exploits aside. pvp gearing up is still progression...

Edited July 17, 2013 by Atramar

[SomeJagoff]

Makes people lazy? yeah, but no. I've seen many people who refused to pvp simply not to get owned for first 2 months of gear grind..

 

Yeah, those people aren't pvpers. I know people like that too, who pvped only in lowbies and once they hit 50, never pvped again, Ever. Guess what bolster has done for those people.

 

Absolutely nothing.

 

The same people who never pvped at 50 still don't pvp at 55, but oddly, still pvp 10-29 and 30-54, even though it's the same bolster...

 

Other people who rarely pvp, but specificlaly were too lazy to grind the gear, now they'll maybe queue for 1 wz a month when they have some time to kill in between raids. So casual PVPers (PVEers) now get a great way to walk into a warzone and stomp PVPers in pvp gear.......but.......but......when those same PVPers in their min-maxed conquerer gear want to try some hm ops? "Nah, beat it kid!"

 

This is BLATANT favoritism towards PVE players on Bioware's part, and that's why so many PVPers are pissed off and why so many unsubbed. Adding a new set of gear that will be rendered moot in stats due to bolster isn't going to help ease that anger.

 

lazy people are still lazy and come in leveling greens to L 55 WZ and they are still easy pray for people like YOU who want gear advantage. They don't augment, they don't work on rotations.

 

I don't run premades pwning undergeared people and I don't prey on undergeared people, nor did I say that, in fact I said the exact opposite.

 

I don't want premades taking advantage of undergeared pvpers.

 

So please get your facts straight and don't assume.

 

As for the first part, lazy people coming in using greens still stomp people. How do I know this? because I've stomped people both in greens and naked (AFTER they "fixed" the naked pvp bug). If I'm wearing lvl 9 greens, I SHOULDN'T be stomping people wearing pvp gear --OR-- pve gear.

 

If you don't believe me, buy a full set of green lvl 10 gear off the gtn, then queue up for 55 pvp, you'll still stomp people. I'm not saying you're going to 1-shot their entire team by yourself, but the fact that you can stomp ANYONE with such gear is just ridiculous.

 

I agree with you that the RNG boxes were utterly stupid. Also utterly stupid? no separation of brackets, so that lvl 50 players in centurion/battlemaster gear could stomp lvl 10s.

 

You're going off on a tangent though, getting 3-4 bags and getting extremely good luck and gettin a set of gear based soley on RNG isn't a show of effort, it's a show of not getting screwed by RNG, which many have argued is the main prob with the RNG proc relics currently.

 

Recruit gear was fine "laziness" wise, since they at least had to put forth effort PVEing to get the credits to buy the recruit gear initially. I bought my recruit gear with credits from grinding dailies, got destroyed due to unbelievably terrible stats (ONLY crit/accuracy/alacrity on every single piece), but wore it, got stomped, saved comms, got battlemaster gear, then war hero, then elite war hero.

 

The problem with bolster is, it's the people who were given FREE recruit gear after 1.3 who complained and refused to even wear that. It may have been terrible stats wise, but it was at least FREE starter gear people could use while gearing up. That = lazy. Get a free set of pvp gear, but then basically too good to wear such terrible gear?

 

 

pvp gear is still better and easy to min/max with comms to have gear advantage, small as it is, but it still exists. I see it on my pvp chars that with each peace I get I hit harder and live longer. If you think PVE gear is better, be my guest, WORK HARD for PvE gear and kick *** in warzones. being elite pvper means working hard for the gear right? no matter what it means - that's what hardcore means. ofc it won't happen, after a month of preparing for end game pve content, learning tactics and stuff, and then 5 weeks of harvesting NIM TFB and SV, you will get your shiny top pve stuff into a warzone, you will see how much it suck compared to first tier of pvp gear that you can aquire in 2 weeks.

 

I never said 75s was better than pvp gear, the expertise is nerfed so much on that stuff, they're going to be taking a ton more damage. However, let me refer you to this nifty little guide:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=635414

 

The only gear gaps that exist are ones that bioware specifically has created since 2.0, i.e., can't figure out how to fix augment glitch, so just remove bolstering of augments entirely. What does that mean? Wear campaign/dread guard or craftered 66 gear with augments and you're going to stomp people in partisan gear. Why? Because your stats are going to get buffed, your expertise is going to get nearly maxed, And you're going to have the augment advantage.

 

In the case of 72s, I was in a match with a guy wearing full 72s, smashed everyone to death, got top damage, very few deaths. 75s may be the point at which the drop of expertise becomes so extreme that it's not even close to being equal and instead worse than pvp gear.

 

Though, even that's hard to say because nobody has really done the math (nor can they unless they go to ilum, which now has the same wz bolster again and switch gear in and out to compare stats and do the math), they're simply taking what bioware said about it, "conquerer is the best, then partisan, then pve gear with bolster is slightly worse than partisan."

 

Then they came out and specifically said that arkanian/underworld was actually specifically BETTER than conquerer. A few nerfs to expertise levels, then it became more or less equal. Also keep in mind that Even IN conquerer gear, stats are STILL getting bolstered, which is not only dumb, but shows how worthless/subpar conquerer gear actually is.

 

Aside from the lack of gear progression issue, the next biggest problem is the myriad of bugs/exploits/glitches in bolster that keep showing up nearly every single week, combine that with the general confusion about specifically what gear is better just makes the failsystem fail. I mean, you could go into a wz with a mix of pvp and pve gear, get perfect stats, stomp everyone, then walk around questing in open world and get stomped yourself...or just on ilum, stomp in the western ice shelf, get stomped in the eastern ice shelf with the same gear.

 

ALL of the above is far more complex than it needs to be, more frustrating that it needs to be, and could easily be fixed by either a free set of MODDABLE recruit gear (available to F2P players as well) or the ability to purchase 55 gear under lvl 55.

 

edit: as for gearing up for L 55 while being under 55, hell no. don't force doing lowbies. lowbie pvp is awful, unbalanced, arrogant and simply stupid. I never ever ever want to set my foot in lowbie pvp. never. peroid.

 

So you can't stand under 55 pvp, but 55 pvp is great? Under 55 pvp can be pretty terrible, but it has its advantages over 55 pvp, it's a lot more fluid (nodes going back and forth, both sides scoring in huttball), less premades stomping, and most importantly, you get XP, so unlike 55, there's SOME incentive to pvp in the lowbies. If you could buy 55 gear instead of 4,000 wz medpacs, that would be even more incentive to lowbie pvp.

 

Most importantly, of course, if you could buy 55 pvp gear under 55, there would seriously be no excuse for people not to have SOME pvp gear the second they hit 55. Heck, they could still give out a free set of new moddable recruit gear as well, so you'd have a set of basic recruit gear + whatever amount of gear you could get from comms saved up from under 55.

[SomeJagoff]

Remove bolster, redesign a "Recruit 3" set which becomes your new Tier 1 gear with Partisan becoming Tier 2 and Conqueror becoming Tier 3.

Still give it away - once a player reaches level 55, give it a "cannot sell" flag so people don't just vendor it away (and then add it to peoples collections so they can spawn another set if they accidentally delete it).There we go - tiering of new PvP players sorted.

 

This is actually the best idea I've seen on the forums with regards to a new set of recruit gear. If Bioware wants to "idiotproof" recruit gear, there is no better way to do it than to put it in collections, make it worth 0 and unable to be vendored. There would seriously be no excuse EVER to not have pvp gear, you could be guarding a node and spawn a set of pvp gear and equip it.

 

This is something that bioware needs to incorporate.

[Elear]

I don't want premades taking advantage of undergeared pvpers (which obviously a lot of pvp guilds did), but I also don't want 0 incentive for getting stomped by said premades.

 

Under the old system: get stomped by premades, but each stomping gets you closer to a piece of gear to increase your stats.

 

Under the current system: get stomped by premades, but why bother getting any gear cause bolster will either keep your stats exactly the same or nerf them or maybe you'll get 1 extra point of expertise.

 

0 incentive to take the stompings and I would imagine 0 incentive to dish out stompings as well, since a lot of pvpers quit after 2.0 went live and after months of bugs.

So you think that what game needs is for pvp to require weeks/months (depending how much one does play) of suffering before one can stand some chance and actually try to have fun? Good luck with that.

 

Nothing, just don't package it as a PvP update when it's really PvE welfare.

 

Really? PvE? There is no bolster in operations, or flashpoints, or in open world. PvE players don't get any benefit from bolster whatsoever. PvP players that don't grind pvp gear 24/7, yes, those do recieve benefit, but that's still pvp player.

 

Oh, wait, it's another of those "my parents love my brother more" PvP/PvE threads, nothing to see here.

[Atramar]

So you can't stand under 55 pvp, but 55 pvp is great? Under 55 pvp can be pretty terrible, but it has its advantages over 55 pvp, it's a lot more fluid (nodes going back and forth, both sides scoring in huttball), less premades stomping, and most importantly, you get XP, so unlike 55, there's SOME incentive to pvp in the lowbies. If you could buy 55 gear instead of 4,000 wz medpacs, that would be even more incentive to lowbie pvp.

 

Most importantly, of course, if you could buy 55 pvp gear under 55, there would seriously be no excuse for people not to have SOME pvp gear the second they hit 55. Heck, they could still give out a free set of new moddable recruit gear as well, so you'd have a set of basic recruit gear + whatever amount of gear you could get from comms saved up from under 55.

the constant node changes are due to people not calling incs, leaving nodes unguarder. I don't call it fluid pvp, I call it stupid pvp. lowbie pvp is filled with bads, I have nothing against premades of 4 in a regular warzone in 55 pvp (I que solo all the time), and peopel come in lowbie pvp to level up, not to win, as they get their most prised reward (exp) no matter of result, so they do what's fun for them only (so not doing objectives, ignoring healers, ignoring team play, etc).

 

as for the rest on bolster bugs argument, dunno what others kept noticing, but I preffer partisian augmented pvp gear over my augmented grade 69 gear, peroid.. tried swap here and there, but feels much much better in partisian.

but then again, I spend more time on improving my rotations, awarness and team play then on my gear.

[SomeJagoff]

people exploiting system are a problem, but it beats people in pve stats in a warzone.

 

here's the diff:

 

People wearing pve gear in wzs: If you're in pvp gear, you'll stomp them, no difference to you.

 

People explointing the bolster system in wzs: If you're in pvp gear, they can stomp you, and hard.

 

other part, recruit gear was not moddable and pure ugly.

recruit gear was tried in 2 versions, both faild to do what it was designed for, so they evolved with bolster.

 

And that's bioware's problem (and it will be as subs continue to fall, as they're losing some of their most loyal players, PVP players who get no maps/gear/etc. for 8 months at a time) for not fixing something that was broken and instead introducing something else that was WAY more broken.

 

Best solution to that would be what was mentioned in an earlier post, recruit gear added to collections, but make the gear moddable 63 blues (or whatever the lowest tier of pvp gear is, but blues instead of purpls, but IDENTICAL expertise and no set bonuses), so people could still customize their look.

 

with few exploits aside.

 

Every week since 2.0 launched has had some sort of exploit where PVE gear has become better than PVP gear. That's more than a few.

[DariusCalera]

2 months were for them as they were pve exclusive, and only would do 2-3 matches a day tops, or when ops team didn't happen (very rare in our guild by then), thanks to bolster, I see them more and more often doing pvp, and they don't feel like a fifth wheel.

people exploiting system are a problem, but it beats people in pve stats in a warzone. recruit gear wasn't bad idea, problem came with people refusing to use recruit gear. some argued that their stats are better, and you had 2 people in a warzone on your team that had mixed pve columi and recruit gear, as they claimed 'they have better stats in pve gear'.

other part, recruit gear was not moddable and pure ugly.

recruit gear was tried in 2 versions, both faild to do what it was designed for, so they evolved with bolster.

 

again, pve boltered gear is few % below first tier of pvp gear. with few exploits aside. pvp gearing up is still progression...

 

Actually, the Recruit gear did exactly was it was designed to do.

 

But, as you say, people refused to use it because they thought that they had better stats in PvE gear.

 

So the reason that Bolster exists isn't because the Recruit sets failed, but because people were uneducated bads.

 

Oh, and Bolstered PvE gear is still quite a bit better than the Partisan gear. It's not until you start getting into the Conqueror gear that the PvP gear stats getting better and even then they pretty much break even.

[SomeJagoff]

the constant node changes are due to people not calling incs, leaving nodes unguarder. I don't call it fluid pvp, I call it stupid pvp. lowbie pvp is filled with bads, I have nothing against premades of 4 in a regular warzone in 55 pvp (I que solo all the time), and peopel come in lowbie pvp to level up, not to win, as they get their most prised reward (exp) no matter of result, so they do what's fun for them only (so not doing objectives, ignoring healers, ignoring team play, etc).

 

So you prefer 55 style matches that are more typically 3caps with 1 or 2 4man premades stomping the other team into oblivion? The negatives you mentioned are present/common in 55 as well, minus the "most prized reward" (exp). In the matches where both teams are equally skilled, it's usually long stalemate matches and whoever caps first wins. Same in ranked with 2 equally skilled teams. Stalemates since 2.0 hit are not fun at all and most people have voiced that opinion here on the forums.

 

Those stalemates are extremely rare in lowbie pvp, so that's 1 definite advantage. Instead of 1 team going to a node and spending 10 minutes not capping it, it's usually 1 team going to the node, stomping the other team, then capping, then it might happen again, even with backup inc calls, etc. Far more fun, imho, so don't see why you'd prefer stalemate matches to that, but that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

 

as for the rest on bolster bugs argument, dunno what others kept noticing, but I preffer partisian augmented pvp gear over my augmented grade 69 gear, peroid.. tried swap here and there, but feels much much better in partisian.

but then again, I spend more time on improving my rotations, awarness and team play then on my gear.

 

See, here's the core issue. For people like you, removing bolster would make no difference whatsoever. You personally earned your gear and still pvp in it (even if it isn't best due to various exploits/the bolster system itself/etc.). If bolster were removed, then your gear would Definitely be better than augmented 69s/66s/63s/11s/etc. You wouldn't even have to think twice about it. For the people who wanted to walk in using high end pve gear or low end pve gear, they'd get stomped, if they refused to wear a set of recruit gear, they'd deserve that stomping.

 

Sorry, but if people queued up in lvl 11 green gear without bolster and got stomped by you in partisan gear, they deserve that stomping and that's the way it Should be, especially if they specifically refused to wear a free set of recruit gear....ESPECIALLY if it could be instantly transferred to inventory via collections with 1 click.

[DariusCalera]

So you prefer 55 style matches that are more typically 3caps with 1 or 2 4man premades stomping the other team into oblivion?

 

Matches like this are extremely rare, no matter which server you are on, and are by no means "typical" of 55 PvP.

[KamujinKravshera]

Really? PvE? There is no bolster in operations, or flashpoints, or in open world. PvE players don't get any benefit from bolster whatsoever. PvP players that don't grind pvp gear 24/7, yes, those do recieve benefit, but that's still pvp player.

 

Oh, wait, it's another of those "my parents love my brother more" PvP/PvE threads, nothing to see here.

 

Yes, really PvE. Bolster as it was implemented is designed to make PvE gear viable for PvP. This helps PvE'rs and does nothing for PvP'rs. Still confused? Please ask and feel free to toss out another "clever" taunt that you once heard someone else use.

[Ghost_Spectre]

A free set of recruit gear would fix this problem.

 

No it will not. Recruit gear failed, period. We have Bolster because Recruit gear did not allow a player to be competitive against maxed out Elite War Hero, War Hero, or even Battlemaster geared players. All Recruit gear did was put a bright red target marker on the player inviting all those in the aforementioned gear to come and destroy them. Suggesting they revert back to using Recruit gear is nothing more than pining for the massive gear imbalance that plagued the warzones before 2.0. Like it or not, Bolster is here to stay. It is working as intended even with a few minor problems.

[Darkshadz]

Yes, really PvE. Bolster as it was implemented is designed to make PvE gear viable for PvP. This helps PvE'rs and does nothing for PvP'rs. Still confused? Please ask and feel free to toss out another "clever" taunt that you once heard someone else use.

 

Try killing half-premades on Bastion with your PVE geared toon, I dare you. Min/max partisan/conqueror gear is BIS, period.

[SomeJagoff]

No it will not. Recruit gear failed, period. We have Bolster because Recruit gear did not allow a player to be competitive against maxed out Elite War Hero, War Hero, or even Battlemaster geared players. All Recruit gear did was put a bright red target marker on the player inviting all those in the aforementioned gear to come and destroy them. Suggesting they revert back to using Recruit gear is nothing more than pining for the massive gear imbalance that plagued the warzones before 2.0. Like it or not, Bolster is here to stay. It is working as intended even with a few minor problems.

 

A new set of recruit gear that was moddable, available for copy at any times via collections, and was a blue version of partisan with Identical expertise would fix the problem, even though you refuse to accept that.

 

NOBODY is asking for the exact same model of utterly terrible/worthless recruit gear from the past, stacked with tons of crit that's even more useless now in 2.0.

 

So again, a free set of recruit gear (as I outlined, moddable, blue version of partisan with identical expertise, just lower pve stats, and most importantly, available to F2P players.....and so Bioware can completely "idiotproof" it, put it in collections so that it can never be accidentally vendored or destroyed) would fix the problem.

 

Matches like this are extremely rare, no matter which server you are on, and are by no means "typical" of 55 PvP.

 

Try pvping on imp side on the harbinger at 55. Before transfers it was pretty bad, with certain pub guilds religiously pugstomping every day. Since transfers, it's even more one sided, influx of apac pub pvpers, with most of the imp pvp guilds having transferred to the bastion. Don't have a 55 toon on bastion yet, but the lowbie brackets have also been 1 sided stomping of imps by pub premades.

 

So unless 55 on the bastion is equal amount of premades on each side or equal amount of pugs on each side, the lowbie brackets would suggest the stompings, which are Very "typical" of 55 pvp on the harbinger, are the same on bastion, and likely other servers. I mean there's that huge premades ruining non-ranked wzs thread, I highly doubt people commenting in that thread aren't from bastion/harbinger or are somehow only complaining about lowbie pvp.

 

As I said before, I don't care if I get stomped by premades, as long as there's Something to show for it. If it's xp in the lowbies or gear at 55, that's fine by me, but if I get stomped only to get gear that isn't really better than the pve gear I'm wearing, then what's the point?

Edited July 17, 2013 by SomeJagoff

[Atramar]

A new set of recruit gear that was moddable, available for copy at any times via collections, and was a blue version of partisan with Identical expertise would fix the problem, even though you refuse to accept that.

 

NOBODY is asking for the exact same model of utterly terrible/worthless recruit gear from the past, stacked with tons of crit that's even more useless now in 2.0.

 

So again, a free set of recruit gear (as I outlined, moddable, blue version of partisan with identical expertise, just lower pve stats, and most importantly, available to F2P players.....and so Bioware can completely "idiotproof" it, put it in collections so that it can never be accidentally vendored or destroyed) would fix the problem.

 

gear that can be taken on and off is not idiot proof. bolster is idiot proof, but not exploit proof. every time it was proven that pve item was better, it was a matter of a 0.5 or 1 % in difference, and most of these are fixed. by new set of L 55 pvp gear this will be no longer an issue, and I can only hope that every new item will be already tested with a bolster. it was a mistake of BIO that they gave bolster at same time as new level cap, hopefully, this will be rendered mute on next level update.

 

idiots will still be idiots, but they will be atleast a cannon fodder for the team, not one shot guy that you could see so often 'in the old days' - funny phrase for 19 month old game he he.

 

and to your mentioning, ofc removing bolster wouldn't touch me, all my pvp toons are geared more or less, but is it a reason to remove bolster? cause my assassin was there since RNG bag crap drop? na-a, I preffer my enemies to have atleast a slight chance to fight back, and 2 shotting peeps on my sniper is boring... killing people with one revage on my jugg got old quickly too, and doing massacre with massacre on my marauder was never fun on lowbies (yeah, I made marauder just for that).

 

bolster gives people chance to learn how to pvp and draws more people to pvp. only people who quit pvp are elitist lame baddies who cry over they hard worked gear not giving them free kills any more, and no one will miss them, as they don't contribute to the team any way.

 

FYI, I would vote for removing bolster from ranked, ofc there is no reason to do it since most pvp gear is better then pve gear, BUT would discourage people from exploiting, however, I'm not going to give this any petitions, as I simply don't care about that 1% of advantage gained thro exploiting (but I understand frustration of others) - but I would support that bit.