State of DPS sorcerers in PvP

[Mathemagick]

Are DPS Sorcerers at all viable?

 

I have only been playing for a little while but am enjoying the PvP environment

 

The lack of variety of classes (i mean theres seriously 4 classes each with ~2 different trees, so 8-10 different classes/builds/et al in this entire game) is really ... stale ... to me. But I have been having fun with it nonetheless.

 

I am still grinding for gear but it seems like I don't do all that much more damage than a saber-wielder and have much less utility to go along with it(friendly pull, aoe push, and immobilizing force barrier vs mobile shield wall, jump, push, and damage)

 

Perhaps I am not gearing or speccing properly. Would anyone have some advice on that?

 

Thanks fellas

[mandoforlife]

Hey Math, I just hit 55 on my Sorc last night, so I get what you mean about feeling kind of useless compared to other classes. From what I can tell, Sorcs really benefit from gear in PvP moreso than other classes, due to the fact that we will start off with lower expertise than well geared players, along with our light armor.

 

I think spec could also have something to do with it. What spec are you? Lightning has great burst, and even with crappy gear I'm seeing some good numbers from my sorc, and they're getting better with each piece of gear. Your goal in each warzone, aside from the objective (which should be your #1 goal) should be to avoid attention while pumping out as much damage as you can. Ideally, attack someone your teammates are attacking (hopefully the healer!) and that should help make up for your lower numbers due to your lack of gear. If you are specced Corruption, I can't say much on the subject, since I've only run it in the lower brackets.

 

Just trudge through the first week of warzones till you're full partisan, then start optimizing your gear and augmenting with resolve (willpower) augments. I'm pretty sure your issue is mostly gear related, since Lightning has good burst and Madness is great at kiting. And to answer whether sorcs are viable in PvP... yes, yes they are. Madness could use some dev attention, but its still a good spec if you're pugging.

 

Good luck!

[skarlson]

The main problem with sorcs is that our burst spec is turret without the tools to so do like another class who shall remain unnamed *cough*snipers*cough*. So what we end up with is a turret spec that is very hard to get close too since they have the tools to turret and live then a turret spec which is the polar opposite and must run when someone sneezes. You, unlike literally every other class, are completely dependent on good team play to be able to stay in place and cast.

 

The other problem is that our burst is in line with, rather than superior to, every other class and they get better cds. All of them can do the same burst we can while being either mobile or being able to stand still and survive. One class, again they shall remain nameless, actually does substantially better burst than you while having much better survivability.

 

In short you will not outburst anyone dmg for dmg because you will die long before they do. You and your sage counterpart are the lone ACs that require an actual good group to do their job. Everyone else while definately superior in a group, who isn't honestly, can function fine outside of one unless the ops is so bad that everyone is dying within 10s of getting to a node. In those cases no one will excel naturally. That is the state of sorcs right now and has been forever with no end in site. Bioware is just that stupid. Darth Sidious is suppposed to be our model; check my signature for an accurate take on that.

[Kindran]

Are DPS Sorcerers at all viable?

 

I have only been playing for a little while but am enjoying the PvP environment

 

The lack of variety of classes (i mean theres seriously 4 classes each with ~2 different trees, so 8-10 different classes/builds/et al in this entire game) is really ... stale ... to me. But I have been having fun with it nonetheless.

 

I am still grinding for gear but it seems like I don't do all that much more damage than a saber-wielder and have much less utility to go along with it(friendly pull, aoe push, and immobilizing force barrier vs mobile shield wall, jump, push, and damage)

 

Perhaps I am not gearing or speccing properly. Would anyone have some advice on that?

 

Thanks fellas

 

TBH, you need to have a fairly loose personality to solo queue as a dps Sorcerer in PvP. The reason for this is that a Sorcerer relies and supports a team heavily. In solo queues you will die a lot.

 

I would say that we are very balanced for a 1v1 situation, but when you have more people in the fight you are forced to rely on your team in order to do as well as other classes. Of course you will do very well if you are geared and skilled, but other classes will do better from a dps standpoint with the same gear/skill. Again this is for team battles where 2-3 people can jump on you at once.

 

In PvP, burst is king and the biggest burst comes from full Lightning spec. This is just one of the few full Lightning builds that are good in PvP. In Lightning you are a semi-mobile turret who can move quickly when needed, but you are forced to stand still to do most of your damage. When you have both your procs and you are able to cast you can do a LOT of damage. TB>Recklessness>FL>CL combo can dish out around 20k+ damage in no time at all.

 

You also must understand that you are THE most squishiest class in PvP and you WILL be focused down because of this reason. People see a Sorcerer and think "Ooooh, here is an easy kill!". If you do not have a team to help you then you will be forced to use Force Barrier and then die shortly after. Of course this all depends on skill/gear difference between each person, but for the most part this is true.

 

Also I feel like I need to say that even if you survive an onslaught of attacks you will still be nearly useless. The reason for this is that as you are being attacked you will dish out zero to minimum damage while trying to kite and survive. Sorcerers cannot facetank and are forced to stay mobile and/or use utility skills for their survivability.

 

Now if you wanted to go as a healer you would do really well. Corruption Sorcerers have some nice abilities and can survive a lot better than the dps counterparts.

[Hockaday]

Yes, we hare viable. Though, I run my Hybrid spec. DF+ CL+CD. I'll have to try Lightning for pvp, as I find it lack luster for pve

[MidichIorian]

Go all out on power and spec a heavy madness hybrid. I usually don't have more than 14 pts in the tele tree, for the purpose of getting Effusion (the IMO most important ability you can get). With 16 pts you'll get CL and the insta proc for it but I feel like it's changing the way I play the game for the worse (I tend to seek the CL procs which reduces my focus on other stuff) so I'm for the most part not taking it. It can also screw with CC. I would advice against full tele unless you have a supportive team/premade to babysit you. Edited July 16, 2013 by MidichIorian

[MarkXXIV]

Sorcerer is good in pvp, You can play lightning, lightning/madness hybrid, or full madness and do well in pvp. You probably just need to make sure you have the right rotation, that your geared, and that your using an optimal build. Also you will get better with the class with practice. The only dps class superior to sorcerer atm are sniper and rage warrior.

 

Corruption, lightning, and lightning/madness hybrid are all ranked viable. Anyone know if madness is as well?

Edited July 16, 2013 by MarkXXIV

[Kerensk]

Ever since 2.0 I love my hybrid sorc. There are alot of options when playing although you're either dishing out major damage or running. But since its a ranged class that's not so bad.

 

But like people say, you're very dependent on team support. It is possible to disengage if needed, and has some good defenses but if they mark you and focus you all match you're in trouble.

Damage output is also very heavy AoE so it's good to pair with people that can focus and kill the many weak enemies you create. If you're on a team with a bunch of Rambo that run off to 1on1 enemies you'll constantly take the opposing team to within an inch of their life, only to die and see them all recover before you can respawn.

 

Sometimes if you have a bunch of sorcs together you can all AoE together and wipe out swaths of enemies. Ancient Hypergates is one of my favorite maps now. Pack a few lightning sorcs at mid and it erupts into a constant lightning storm with bolts flying everywhere.

And nothing in the world feels better than getting an insta-cast Chain Lightning, casting into a group, and watching 4 of the opposition fall to their knees and die all at the same time.

[Mathemagick]

So i'm seeing pretty much the same answers from everyone:

 

Sorc needs gear

Sorc needs good teamplay

Sorc needs skillz

 

As far as skills go, im not god's gift to sorc or anything, but i have been gladiator 4x in WoW arenas(s1, s2, s3, and s9 or s10 cant recall exactly) and got Grand Marshal title from Rated BGs(not the vanilla mindless grind but the ranked battleground grind, you know... 2400 rating competitve team pvp title). Not that that truly means anything as this is swtor not wow, but i played cloth caster, which sorc plays very similarly to, so... ya know, i get it. i understand my squishy disposition, the importance of kiting, and the necessity for peels & cc, etc.

 

As for teamplay, im also que'ing 4-8 premade. Usually we win, but thas entirely based on our intelligent gameplay towards objectives, not my sorc's viability as a monster dps or anything like that. So ive got good teammates most of the time.

 

As far as gear goes, im definitely behind on it. However, as a good example illustrating why im so concerned, last night i superque'd with a 7man premade into a stalemate voidstar match(dumbest map ever, dont even get me started on this map) and i was basically allowed to freecast 90% of the 12(14?) minute match, at the end of which i was just over 200k behind our juggernat on damage.

 

So lemme get this straight: Sorcs are uber squishy, get shutdown when anyone sticks to them, and when they freecast they dont even pump out superdamage to make-up for it? Meanwhile saberwielders have better defense, a toolkit which enables them to facetank and stand overextended in 'enemy lines' if you will, the ability to deal damage & maintain mobility, and still outperforms sorc dps?

 

just me or is there soemthing wrong with this picture?

 

Anyone have any further thoughts on the subject? would love to hear about your guys' experiences with this sorta thing.

 

Cheers mates!

[wwkingms]

So i'm seeing pretty much the same answers from everyone:

 

Sorc needs gear

Sorc needs good teamplay

Sorc needs skillz

 

As far as skills go, im not god's gift to sorc or anything, but i have been gladiator 4x in WoW arenas(s1, s2, s3, and s9 or s10 cant recall exactly) and got Grand Marshal title from Rated BGs(not the vanilla mindless grind but the ranked battleground grind, you know... 2400 rating competitve team pvp title). Not that that truly means anything as this is swtor not wow, but i played cloth caster, which sorc plays very similarly to, so... ya know, i get it. i understand my squishy disposition, the importance of kiting, and the necessity for peels & cc, etc.

 

As for teamplay, im also que'ing 4-8 premade. Usually we win, but thas entirely based on our intelligent gameplay towards objectives, not my sorc's viability as a monster dps or anything like that. So ive got good teammates most of the time.

 

As far as gear goes, im definitely behind on it. However, as a good example illustrating why im so concerned, last night i superque'd with a 7man premade into a stalemate voidstar match(dumbest map ever, dont even get me started on this map) and i was basically allowed to freecast 90% of the 12(14?) minute match, at the end of which i was just over 200k behind our juggernat on damage.

 

So lemme get this straight: Sorcs are uber squishy, get shutdown when anyone sticks to them, and when they freecast they dont even pump out superdamage to make-up for it? Meanwhile saberwielders have better defense, a toolkit which enables them to facetank and stand overextended in 'enemy lines' if you will, the ability to deal damage & maintain mobility, and still outperforms sorc dps?

 

just me or is there soemthing wrong with this picture?

 

Anyone have any further thoughts on the subject? would love to hear about your guys' experiences with this sorta thing.

 

Cheers mates!

 

 

 

dont get me started

 

our single target dmg/burst when left to freecast is behind mercs and snipers and we're are far squishier.

our only viable 1v1 survival builds cant come close to bursting a healer down

 

and when focused our dps drops to whatever affliction ticks are hitting for

 

thundering blast is BEST CASE SCENARIO critting for about 7k which is a 31 pt talent and a 2 second cast. getting this cast off vs any half brained class is near impossible.. and vs assassins and mara's it could literally never land once

 

lightning-make it a true glass cannon.. if i can be shut down easily and super squishy .. then i should be the biggest burst dmg threat in the game if left to free cast. mercs can crit upwards of 10k and snipers i dont even need to preach about how op they are,

 

madness- needs better self healing, better force regeneration and less gcd's. crushing darkness should NOT BE A GODDAMN 2 second activation.. it should be spec'd to be instant int he madness tree and it should apply affliction as well. OR deathfield should apply affliction to all targets hit.. right now this build is so lackluster.. and has no survivability at all if more than one person attacks u

[Bloodcharged]

The main problem with sorcs is that our burst spec is turret without the tools to so do like another class who shall remain unnamed *cough*snipers*cough*. So what we end up with is a turret spec that is very hard to get close too since they have the tools to turret and live then a turret spec which is the polar opposite and must run when someone sneezes. You, unlike literally every other class, are completely dependent on good team play to be able to stay in place and cast.

 

Ah, well now you know how Arsenal Mercs have felt since launch

[wwkingms]

Ah, well now you know how Arsenal Mercs have felt since launch

 

well at launch tracer spam killed everything...

 

but yea i know how u feel

 

u guys have decent burst now tho

[Kerensk]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Gear wise I'm only full Partisan and if left alone I'll dominate our teams DPS. If I'm focused that drops by half but still better than half of the team. 1on1 is very dependent on skill of the opposition. But assuming the player is above average I can win if I get the jump on them, if they jump me it's more of a struggle but if I don't win I'll get them under 20% before I fall or run away.

 

DPS Sorc is a very powerful class now, we can 1on1 smash monkeys if need be. It just takes some skill to use our many defensives and buffs to neutralize the enemy.

If you're thinking DPS sorc is at the bottom of the barrel L2P.

[wwkingms]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Gear wise I'm only full Partisan and if left alone I'll dominate our teams DPS. If I'm focused that drops by half but still better than half of the team. 1on1 is very dependent on skill of the opposition. But assuming the player is above average I can win if I get the jump on them, if they jump me it's more of a struggle but if I don't win I'll get them under 20% before I fall or run away.

 

DPS Sorc is a very powerful class now, we can 1on1 smash monkeys if need be. It just takes some skill to use our many defensives and buffs to neutralize the enemy.

If you're thinking DPS sorc is at the bottom of the barrel L2P.

 

nope

 

sitting back and spamming aoe doesnt count.. it just fools scoreboard heroes into thinking our class is ok

-i lead 9 of 10 warzones in dmg done... but im the first to say our dmg isnt as game changing or effective as classes with burstier single target stuff. in a game dominated by OP heals.. we dont need aoe fluff dmg we need real single target stuff.... thundering blast and deathfield need a 25% base dmg boost

 

 

quick story..

 

i was ina wz today on my full expertise sorc, and an assasin maul (not assassinate) crit me for 7.9k now add that to shocks crit and proc totaling 8k and 7-9k assassinates... THAT is dps.. THAT is burst.. and yet that class has multiple defensive maneuvers

 

to try to see what the dilly was i joined some low bracket pvp on my level 37 assassin.. i proceeded to crit some poor soul with MAUL for 9k, this was with no relic procs or warzone buff...

 

 

sorc squishyness is not relative to their burst potential.. if we're are gonna be sitting ducks we need the HARDEST hitting ability in game.. as of right now the biggest crit we see tops around 7k.. and that is a 31 pt talent with a 2 second activation

Edited July 18, 2013 by wwkingms

[Maelael]

sorc squishyness is not relative to their burst potential.. if we're are gonna be sitting ducks we need the HARDEST hitting ability in game.. as of right now the biggest crit we see tops around 7k.. and that is a 31 pt talent with a 2 second activation

 

Although I agree with most of the points in your post, I've 9k'ed plenty with TB, been 9ked with TB, etc. 7-8k'ed with DF and CL. The issue is all of the other classes that can AoE 7-8k (or better) and 9k+ in the amount of time it takes to setup and deliver TB, and have way better defenses.

 

I think the damage Sorcs do is on par, but not the defensive capability. I forget the name of the one sage/sorc, but they have all of these damage and kill logs that look insanely impressive, until you look at the overall scores and go "Yea, number padding goods vs bads..."

[KeyboardNinja]

I play a lightning sorc in PvP. It's really, really good, but you do have to be a bit careful. You will absolutely melt under focus fire, and a good team is going to focus fire you every time. So…yeah. I wouldn't bring a lightning sorc to ranked unless I had a very strange composition.

 

Main advantages to lightning sorc in PvP come from burst and decent control utilities. You have multiple stuns, multiple roots (including an AoE root in rotation), a snare and a relatively low-CD interrupt immunity. These tools allow you to kite surprisingly well, though you won't do an absurd amount of damage while you do it. The burst is very high as well, though not quite as high as some other classes (*ahem*sniper*ahem*).

 

The trick is really three-fold. First, play the terrain very, very carefully. Choose your corners and try not to attract attention. When you get focused, know when to LoS and which smasher to stun. Lightning Sorcs are even more dependent on positioning and carefully picking their fights than Arsenal Mercs. Second, if you have serious opposition, queue with a serious group. Most importantly, you need a tank who knows how to rotate their guard and peels effectively. Having a sniper to pick off melee while you kite makes ALL the difference, especially since you can do the same for him with equal facility. Third, you have heals: USE THEM! Bubble yourself compulsively. Don't be afraid to steal a GCD for your instant self-heal. While you're kiting, don't be afraid to pause for a moment to mash Dark Heal. (it also makes nice interrupt bait if you're being focused) Also, Force Barrier is awesome, just don't wait out the full channel.

 

With all that, lightning sorcs are certainly viable in PvP. As I said, I wouldn't take one to ranked unless I had a really weird composition in mind (or just absolutely needed a boat ton of snares), but they're fine in regs. The numbers they can put up are really, really fun. Once you're geared, 1 million damage warzones will be a low mark (especially in Voidstar and Novare), and that healer you're focusing will die EVERY time unless they LoS in a hurry.

Edited July 22, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[skarlson]

Although I agree with most of the points in your post, I've 9k'ed plenty with TB, been 9ked with TB, etc. 7-8k'ed with DF and CL. The issue is all of the other classes that can AoE 7-8k (or better) and 9k+ in the amount of time it takes to setup and deliver TB, and have way better defenses.

 

I think the damage Sorcs do is on par, but not the defensive capability. I forget the name of the one sage/sorc, but they have all of these damage and kill logs that look insanely impressive, until you look at the overall scores and go "Yea, number padding goods vs bads..."

 

I'm missing 3 conq pieces, run near 3k wp, full purple augs, all power/surge and I have not once seen a 9k TB. At least I think I would have noticed if I had. Perhaps 9k with the 30% proc but not without. Not sure who these sorcs are but I would love to know how they are doing 9k tbs as I highly doubt 3 conq pieces will get that extra 2k dmg.

Edited July 23, 2013 by skarlson

[AdmiralParmesan]

Yeah some real exaggerations here, thundering blast on average does not hit anywhere near 9k.

 

That point aside I am just going to be lazy and agree with wwkingms because he is pretty much on point with the sorceror problems

[Ilith]

You heard it folks: If you want to play a sorc DPS in ranked, bring a sniper bodyguard.

 

Squishiest DPS class with subpar output. Bottom line, an equally skilled, equally geared player can do better playing something else. That's just the way it is and it's not going to change. BW has hated sorcs since launch when 40% of the playerbase had one and the uberpowerful hybrid build did ridiculous numbers. Nerfed into the ground one patch later. No one in BW plays a DPS sorc for longer than 5 minutes, they think it's fine and they'd rather play their snipers.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Ilith

[skarlson]

Sorc/sage is just the red headed step child of biofail. We have DF that heals for all of 600 health, BEFORE the pvp healing nerf lol, with THREE skill points invested. It does just over 6k potential dmg in a WZ as internal dmg and is every 15s. Meanwhile classes with better defensives and survivability can do 10k or more damage, whats the highest so far I lost track with all the record threads, and on top of that they get it every 12s and it is kinetic meaning it does that damage after being far more affected by mitigation. This combines with other abilities that hit as hard as our best abilities and they are the fillers.

 

Sorcs are just poorly designed all around. The minute they started with a turret template in a game where everyone else is mobile with all instant damage they failed. They have had ample opportunity to address the failings and instead they address it with snipers and even mercs with hydraulics. We get an ability which at best is 15s of alacrity boost with interrupt immunity but still subject to cc and how long before it can be used again? Meanwhile snipers get cc immunity for how long out of every 60s in addition to superior controlling abilities and defensives?

 

Sorcerers do not suffer from being a poor class in an of itself. It suffers from being a poor class in THIS environment; in another game it might be a good class but not swtor. In tor it suffers from being suboptimal regardless of the role; there is always a class who does the same job as good or better with less effort and more survivability. Bioware thinks everything is fine though or so there PR says so this will not change. They showed just how committed they are to the you will turret and like it mentality by keeping it intact when 2.0 hit.

 

The class is by far the weakest of all classes for PVP; again that is not to say they cannot be fun or useful. The issue really boils down to they are suboptimal in all applications for PVP because they are poorly designed. The mechanics assigned to the class are simply not practical for the overall design mechanics of swtor PVP and bioware fails to realize this.

 

If you took lightning and made everything instant except say FL being a filler instead of that stupid lightning strike it would be a whole other class. Nothing else changes, not damage, not defensives, not level of squishyness, the class would be good and fixed. That won't happen though because bioware is committed to the turretfail template.

Edited July 23, 2013 by skarlson

[Chemic_al]

Yeah, alot of good points, I hardly ever see dps sorcs now (in fact must have quit in disgust over the treatment we get), most are just running heals.

 

We won't be fixed, just look at their pathetic excuses for gutting instant whirlwind on madness, due to "too much lockdown" (lol?) when other classes have a tonne more cc than we ever did.

 

I got my deception sin now and levelling a jugg, (going vengeance - not smashtard), and I'll only dps for a few lulz when the other team is bads and it doesn't matter - most of the time now I'm heals, and I don't feel like a liability as I do in dps spec.

 

*sigh*

[KeyboardNinja]

You heard it folks: If you want to play a sorc DPS in ranked, bring a sniper bodyguard.

 

Squishiest DPS class with subpar output. Bottom line, an equally skilled, equally geared player can do better playing something else. That's just the way it is and it's not going to change. BW has hated sorcs since launch when 40% of the playerbase had one and the uberpowerful hybrid build did ridiculous numbers. Nerfed into the ground one patch later. No one in BW plays a DPS sorc for longer than 5 minutes, they think it's fine and they'd rather play their snipers.

 

I have a sniper and a sorc actually. I prefer my sorc in PvP for the mobility, the healing and the utility. Snipers have better raid utility overall, I think, but a lot of that utility gets negated because of the dynamic environment of a warzone (e.g. where do you drop that shield?). I actually really dislike the playstyle of a sniper in PvP, though I love running with a well-played one.

 

I really don't think sorcs are the worst class in PvP. Madness Assassins are far, far worse. Pyro Mercs are generally pretty lol-worthy, though they have a reputation of being good due to the higher mobility. Lethality Operatives are trivially countered and have such weak burst that they can be essentially ignored.

 

Sorcs have some really strong points in a warzone. The pull is an obvious Huttball asset, but they also have very strong off-healing and (if you're lightning spec) a lot of control abilities. In my best warzones, I'm over a million damage and in the 200k range for healing. (note: that much healing usually means that I had a lot of people focusing me, since I certainly don't spend that much time healing everyone else) That and the fairly low-setup burst of Lightning (or the AoE heavy pressure of well-played Madness) makes them a viable class in the right hands.

 

But yeah, in ranked, bring a sniper. That's not to say the sniper is doing all the work, but they cover your weaknesses quite nicely, and you don't do a bad job covering theirs. As if you'd have a ranked team without a sniper anyway… ;-)

Edited July 23, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[Maelael]

I'm missing 3 conq pieces, run near 3k wp, full purple augs, all power/surge and I have not once seen a 9k TB. At least I think I would have noticed if I had. Perhaps 9k with the 30% proc but not without. Not sure who these sorcs are but I would love to know how they are doing 9k tbs as I highly doubt 3 conq pieces will get that extra 2k dmg.

Yeah some real exaggerations here, thundering blast on average does not hit anywhere near 9k.

 

I may still have that screen shot of the end results in the match, keep in mind it was vs someone who bolstered for like 1100. It was with proc, damn sure. I'll see if I still have it when I get home (Most likely not as I deleted a lot of old stuff, but theres a chance). I don't have a screen shot of my sent getting 9ked by TB though.

 

I said nothing about average Admiral Cheese. Skarl if you're topping out at 7k with that skill vs bads, wow. Something is wrong.

[KeyboardNinja]

I said nothing about average Admiral Cheese. Skarl if you're topping out at 7k with that skill vs bads, wow. Something is wrong.

 

I've hit people for 8.6k with Thundering Blast. I think I had a surge token at that point, but I didn't have Bloodthirst. With BT, I *definitely* would have topped 9k. It's worth noting that TB *is* an auto-crit, so the average is insanely high, but it does have some variation due to the vagaries of min- vs max-value on the pre-surge roll.

 

Honestly, I generally get a lot more mileage out of Chain Lightning. Thundering Blast is pretty easily countered unless you have Polarity Shift rolling (and even then, wiping out the auto-crit is just a cleanse away). Chain Lightning is harder to avoid due to the way in which is procs (interrupting Lightning Strike isn't enough), it's an AoE with surge talents and it's instant on proc. I also tend to use Recklessness on CL (rather than waiting for Lightning Barrage + Chain Lightning like I do in PvE), which is basically the healer-killing formula (watch the operatives get super-confused when they lose half their health in 3 globals and EVERYONE AROUND THEM is simultaneously dropping).

Edited July 23, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[skarlson]

This isn't about good or bad. When I first entered PVP with my marauder in just craft purp gear I had enough expertise to avoid being killed outright simply due to the lack thereof. It is simple math; no amount of skill or alteration in anything you do is going to overcome simple math. No lack of skill is going to alter the math for the opponent barring ofc them not using their defensive skills but that is not going to increase the max damage TB does mathematically it will only allow TB to get closer to its mathematical apex.

 

My TB will hit for over 3k before any crit or mitigation; the math just isn't there to get it to 9k however unless ofc you are just hitting a really soft target but then you are just doing overkill. Imagine what a rage marauder or jugg will hit that same target for when they are hitting you for 10-11k with full expertise. Throwing up how hard you hit someone with a pittance of expertise is just not a credible argument because you are hitting for what others hit full expertise targets for. If you hit for 9k they will hit that much harder as well so their number will still be higher.

 

To be frank if you have 75% surge your TB will have to do 4K base damage and face 0% mitigation to achieve 9K damage vs a target with 2018 expertise. It just is not happening.

Edited July 23, 2013 by skarlson