Very confused on subs now.

[TheBBP]

Ok so we know the new "appreciation" is a one time 500CC. If that's it then what exactly is the advantage of subbing? Looking at the GTN I can bypass every restriction for a mere 50k credits each. Even if I hate farming I'm far better off canceling and spending a few bucks on the market to sell stuff for credits in game.

 

So what gives Bioware? I don't really care about "appreciation". I want some product to buy. I'll gladly spend $50 or more a month on this game. Have you become so blinded by gambling boxes that you forgot people will spend money on other things?

 

I invite you to give it a go and see how you like it.

[Sorenia]

While I cannot say how many players there are with more then sixteen characters, I do currently have sixteen on my server and plan to make more in the future (And no, I dont use them to farm crew skills. Actually, only a handful of my main characters even have crafting skills...)

 

Even a percent of a percent is actually a fair chunk of people when we're talking 500k subscribers. It doesn't change the fact that the game would be in dire straits if everyone else gradually canceled. That would lead to even you canceling due to lack of updates occurring.

 

 

I invite you to give it a go and see how you like it.

 

I invite you to try and support the game instead of arguing everyone be a leech.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Sorenia

[Andryah]

There's nothing narrow sighted about ignoring such an edge case.

 

Your entire assessment that subs are not needed and are without value (ie: easily replaced with a chain of unlocks purchased on the cheap off the GTN) is the mother of all edge cases.

 

You simply are not going to persuade intelligent players that their sub is not needed and lacks value in the new business model. They can assess and decide for themselves if they are better off subscribing or going preferred+pay-2-unlock.

 

I do acknowledge however that you might net yourself some of the more cranially challenged.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Sorenia]

You simply are not going to persuade intelligent players that their sub is not needed and lacks value in the new business model.

 

I'm not attempting to persuade people to cancel. I'm pointing out that people who want to be cheap will cancel now that they know they can. Bioware basically just told them to in fact.

[ReverendAnderson]

The point is that if there's no reason to sub the game is going to devolve into something bad. Full F2P games thrive on tiny updates and gambling boxes. If people like me unsub then the game won't even be worth playing long term.

 

Then it'll dry up and die, and we'll all go play something else that we like. We aren't exactly lacking for options.

[Sorenia]

Then it'll dry up and die, and we'll all go play something else that we like. We aren't exactly lacking for options.

 

Star Wars can not be allowed to fail you heathen!

[Andryah]

I'm not attempting to persuade people to cancel. I'm pointing out that people who want to be cheap will cancel now that they know they can. Bioware basically just told them to in fact.

 

But for many.... they really cannot cancel the sub and continue to play the game the way they want to. Some can, sure.. but the majority cannot. The non-sub side of the equation is too limiting.... even with all the unlocks in place... for many players

 

Stop trying so hard.

[TheBBP]

I invite you to try and support the game instead of arguing everyone be a leech.

 

What are you going on about? I support the game plenty.

[Sorenia]

But for many.... they really cannot cancel the sub and continue to play the game the way they want to. Some can, sure.. but the majority cannot.

 

You're just wrong on this. It's a verifiable claim that they can in fact cancel with no ill effects. I'm not saying you aren't getting value. If you study this industry at all you can quickly pick up FACTS about user distribution on many things. For instance we know a large majority of players do not play multiple characters. We know only an extreme minority play 4+ characters.

 

The reality is there were specific restrictions that mattered to people:

 

1) Ops/Warzones/Flashpoints.

2) Purple gear.

3) Credit limit.

4) Retarded crap like quickslots/inventory.

 

One by one all of these have become things you can cheaply buy on the GTN. I would argue in fact that EA is systematically trying to make it easier to play without a sub. They see gambling boxes/cosmetic gear as easy money and would rather court that than expensive updates. It's short sighted but EA excels at short sighted.

 

They're just being dishonest and trying to continue to collect their sub fee from people who don't notice.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Sorenia

[TheBBP]

For instance we know a large majority of players do not play multiple characters. We know only an extreme minority play 4+ characters.

 

Are you being serious? Where do we "know" this from? I have never seen any such "fact".

Edited July 6, 2013 by TheBBP

[Sorenia]

Are you being serious? Where do we "know" this from? I have never seen any such "fact".

 

Blizzard has repeatedly stated that a very large majority of people only have time for one character. They might have some half assed alts but they don't play them.

[Pagy]

Ok so we know the new "appreciation" is a one time 500CC. If that's it then what exactly is the advantage of subbing? Looking at the GTN I can bypass every restriction for a mere 50k credits each. Even if I hate farming I'm far better off canceling and spending a few bucks on the market to sell stuff for credits in game.

 

So what gives Bioware? I don't really care about "appreciation". I want some product to buy. I'll gladly spend $50 or more a month on this game. Have you become so blinded by gambling boxes that you forgot people will spend money on other things?

great so unsub and stop whining

 

ok that problem's solved

[TheBBP]

Blizzard has repeatedly stated that a very large majority of people only have time for one character. They might have some half assed alts but they don't play them.

 

Alts are not played a ton. That is why they are alts and not the main. But most people still have and play them when the mood strikes them. It is really absurd to try to state as fact that a very tiny majority of players have alts.

Edited July 6, 2013 by TheBBP

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

It's like Christmas morning and instead of present under the tree there's just an envelope with a small amount of money. It's just not the same. I certainly didn't feel appreciated in the least by this.

[TheBBP]

It's like Christmas morning and instead of present under the tree there's just an envelope with a small amount of money. It's just not the same. I certainly didn't feel appreciated in the least by this.

 

Your natural progression of thought took you to a comparison of being upset on Christmas morning?

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Your natural progression of thought took you to a comparison of being upset on Christmas morning?

 

Yes it was, I can break it down if you can't keep up.

 

Presents = a way of showing appreciation

Picking a gift and exerting effort to go to the store, buy it, wrap it, is a further step in showing that appreciation.

Money as a gift is a cheap shortcut that says, I care about you, but not enough to make an effort.

[TheBBP]

Yes it was, I can break it down if you can't keep up.

 

Presents = a way of showing appreciation

Picking a gift and exerting effort to go to the store, buy it, wrap it, is a further step in showing that appreciation.

Money as a gift is a cheap shortcut that says, I care about you, but not enough to make an effort.

 

That is nice and all. But, now I am sad for you that you are equally as emotionally connected to this game as you are to Christmas.

 

Besides, the best fun at Christmas is making other people choke up at the gift you got them. Not the gifts you get.

 

That's just me though and is likely very silly to you.

 

Carry on Sad Christmas Guy.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

That is nice and all. But, now I am sad for you that you are equally as emotionally connected to this game as you are to Christmas.

 

Besides, the best fun at Christmas is making other people choke up at the gift you got them. Not the gifts you get.

 

That's just me though and is likely very silly to you.

 

Carry on Sad Christmas Guy.

 

I used Christmas as an example of a time you typically get presents, that's all. I've had Christmas were I got almost no presents and that was fine. I actually celebrate the birth of Christ my Lord and savior. Forgive me for trying to use a frame of reference that most people would understand. I hope you feel better about your self going out of your way to take things on a forum out of context.

[xorcist]

Ok so we know the new "appreciation" is a one time 500CC. If that's it then what exactly is the advantage of subbing? Looking at the GTN I can bypass every restriction for a mere 50k credits each. Even if I hate farming I'm far better off canceling and spending a few bucks on the market to sell stuff for credits in game.

 

So what gives Bioware? I don't really care about "appreciation". I want some product to buy. I'll gladly spend $50 or more a month on this game. Have you become so blinded by gambling boxes that you forgot people will spend money on other things?

 

Anyone who supports the one time offer of 500 CC as a suitable subscription advantage are nothing but Sheeple. There is very little advantage to the $15 per month model. The commitment we've shown Bioware Austin all this time after the Cartel Market hit and Free to Play launch has not be been returned to the Subscribers.

 

In Layman's terms they said: "screw the Subscribers, now that we are making mad money from the Cartel Market we don't really care about them".

 

We've been replaced with a higher form of income. Yes we are still income and they would rather not loose that completely. But they won't tie up valuable resources in an attempt to make us satisfactorily happy when they could just create a new fancy weapon in a gambling pack and make what would seem like an infinite amount of income instead. They cannot admit that to you because like most places. They surely have security policies preventing anyone revealing company politics. Hence a cheap one time 500 CC virtually useless bonus for subscribing all this time. Feels like someone just spat in my eye.

 

Understand the below Sig Bioware Austin and know. Your BS won't be tolerated forever.

[Hxxr]

Alts are not played a ton. That is why they are alts and not the main. But most people still have and play them when the mood strikes them. It is really absurd to try to state as fact that a very tiny majority of players have alts.

 

As far as I know with SWToRs Legacy System and more story driven leveling there should be a lot more alts around than in WoW. Even getting double the ammount of Commendations through FP each weak (and sending gear via legacy items) was nothing that could be done in WoW. I Fully expect there'd be a lot more alts running around here - and my guild that ranges from raiding casuals to the most hardcore you can find on my server and 2 alts is bare minimum it seems, although a lot of them are used for crafting purposes only. Over half my guild is also sitting on over 3000 CC doing nothing with it and I know of only two (out of 26) that bought additional CC at one point.

 

I myself belong to the latter group and have little problem with 7 raiding nights a week and manage to level characters effectively using rested exp (and the last two exp weekends) which lead to one of each advanced classes but one (no Sorcerer).

Yet I only can attend to one alt raid and 3 FP per week playing my favorite alt because either I'm locked in raiding with my main or in dire need of fresh air after a lot of evenings of staring at pixels.

 

I would never play the game unsubscribed and I wouldn't recommend it if you're into organized group play. The credit loss alone would be a major pain! And I doubt there'd actually be a lot to win by buying Operation passes every week ... although both can be sowewhat made redundant by farming extra credits, which takes time and time is money ... and vice versa in this case.

So it's a question what you want to invest - time or money. Many people have a lot more money than time, simply because the latter cannot be earned and is uniquely valuable.

[TheBBP]

I used Christmas as an example of a time you typically get presents, that's all. I've had Christmas were I got almost no presents and that was fine. I actually celebrate the birth of Christ my Lord and savior. Forgive me for trying to use a frame of reference that most people would understand. I hope you feel better about your self going out of your way to take things on a forum out of context.

 

I don't feel better and I won't make excuses for it, but I do apologize.

 

I actually celebrate the birth of Christ my Lord and savior.

 

Amen brother.

[Knockerz]

But for many.... they really cannot cancel the sub and continue to play the game the way they want to. Some can, sure.. but the majority cannot. The non-sub side of the equation is too limiting.... even with all the unlocks in place... for many players

 

Stop trying so hard.

 

I agree, which is why I'm no longer bothering with the game, except to just practice my German in like two months from now. I'm supposed to take German next quarter. The 300,000 credit limit is a real problem. In pso2 you don't have credit limit, but you can't sell any thing to players. However, you can buy any thing you want and no limitations of any kinda in terms of character progression. I guess it's much like Tera's free to play. Oddly, my sub ran out yesterday and I can still post.

 

I tried pve, but didn't really last more than two weeks. It's just boring like wow end game pve, which I done too many times. It's also very annoying gearing up a new character like wow that it started to feel like a second job having to log in every day to make any meaningful progression unless you want to take months gearing one character. I can't stand waiting for the pve queues. From the time the game launch up to 2.0 I only did pvp and never really felt gearing up my character was tedious because it was fun. Running the same dungeons and operations is not fun. It's boring after the first couple times. They are exactly the same each and every time and aren't challenging. Yesterday I wiped like 4-5 times with each attempt lasting 15-25 minutes on a boss for my subclass quest in pso2 and it was frustrating fun. On my last attempt I finally killed it and gotten really good using wire maces.

 

I don't know just the whole idea of going through the same nonsense I went through in wow, trying to find a guild, gearing up to run raids, sticking to a stupid raid schedule each week, having consumables, spending lots of gold on repairs and other expensive is not worth the hassle and time sink.

 

As for pvp, it was fun prior to patch 2.0, but as is the case in wow, each time the level cap is increased pvp becomes unbalance or broken. Swtor is no exception and I don't see pvp being casually viable any more. It's not the same type of pvp that exist prior to 2.0, which is why I haven't bother with it.

 

I know it probably won't happen in mmorpg, but for once a mmorpg company should release expansion that don't increase the level cap, but that add content only. Increasing the level cap is a cheap way of making content last longer or to keep subscribers subscribed longer.

 

I'm pretty sure preferred players can't post on the forums, but only subscribers are allowed.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Knockerz

[astrobearx]

Yes it was, I can break it down if you can't keep up.

 

Presents = a way of showing appreciation

Picking a gift and exerting effort to go to the store, buy it, wrap it, is a further step in showing that appreciation.

Money as a gift is a cheap shortcut that says, I care about you, but not enough to make an effort.

am i the only one who thought of this slip when i read this post?

 

[BadOrb]

You're just wrong on this. It's a verifiable claim that they can in fact cancel with no ill effects. I'm not saying you aren't getting value. If you study this industry at all you can quickly pick up FACTS about user distribution on many things. For instance we know a large majority of players do not play multiple characters. We know only an extreme minority play 4+ characters.

 

Not a cathar in hell's chance , SWTOR is the most altastic MMO I have played. Maybe the 1 mil plus players who left really quick after it's release had 4 or less characters ( that's why they left , got bored quickly ). If someone still has about 4 characters then they can't possibly still be playing since launch , they would be bored out of their minds by now , SWTOR is a short game and thus we make alternative characters. I have 16 on one server and that's it and i will never make that many characters in an MMO ever again. In fact I have too much to do really speaking , but within 6 months all my characters will be maxed out , not sure what I will do then. Level cap increase again ?

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

Edited July 6, 2013 by BadOrb

[Arkerus]

Ok so we know the new "appreciation" is a one time 500CC. If that's it then what exactly is the advantage of subbing? Looking at the GTN I can bypass every restriction for a mere 50k credits each. Even if I hate farming I'm far better off canceling and spending a few bucks on the market to sell stuff for credits in game.

 

So what gives Bioware? I don't really care about "appreciation". I want some product to buy. I'll gladly spend $50 or more a month on this game. Have you become so blinded by gambling boxes that you forgot people will spend money on other things?

 

SO if you have done the math and know what it takes, go ahead and drop your sub. That's the point. Its up to you. Make your own decision.