Why do melee NPC have knockback ?

[znihilist]

Seems very popular with Makeb NPCs. I was under the impression that only ranged NPC had that.

And it is starting to be a bit frustrating when every NPC and his cousin knock you back.

 

 

/rant

 

It is not really that annoying, but like I said it is something I noticed only Makeb or can someone correct me if I am mistaken ?

[ELRunninW]

I think this one of ways to make Makeb quests harder. No real innovation, just more mob with more abilities. But contrary to what you suggest it is not every NPC.

[znihilist]

I think this one of ways to make Makeb quests harder. No real innovation, just more mob with more abilities.

Interesting point.

But contrary to what you suggest it is not every NPC.

Just exaggerating, you know how rants go!

[Andryah]

Same reasons player characters have knockbacks...... to get you away from them if you are dealing melee damage.

 

Now, if the NPC is "trying" to use knockbacks on a ranged target.. that would be dumb.... but it's just as fair for an NPC to interrupt, knockback, etc. as a player IMO.

 

Or do you just want the mobs to lay down when you approach so you an stab them to death at your leisure?

 

Btw... this is not new to Makeb. It's been common in the game since day one (I have a young character I am running through Coruscant right now and the number of mobs that knockback is not trivial, but is predictable as they mimic player classes that have knockback.. right down to weapons and armor). Mob density overall is just greater on Makeb and keep in mind Makeb is expansion content for veteran players not noob_sauce for noobs. I think the devs figure you can deal with some knockbacks, interrupts and kicks to the groin from NPCs.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Andryah

[znihilist]

Same reasons player characters have knockbacks...... to get you away from them if you are dealing melee damage.

 

Now, if the NPC is "trying" to use knockbacks on a ranged target.. that would be dumb.... but it's just as fair for an NPC to interrupt, knockback, etc. as a player IMO.

 

Or do you just want the mobs to lay down when you approach so you an stab them to death at your leisure?

 

Btw... this is not new to Makeb. It's been common in the game since day one (I have a young character I am running through Coruscant right now and the number of mobs that knockback is not trivial, but is predictable as they mimic player classes that have knockback.. right down to weapons and armor). Mob density overall is just greater on Makeb and keep in mind Makeb is expansion content for veteran players not noob_sauce for noobs. I think the devs figure you can deal with some knockbacks, interrupts and kicks to the groin from NPCs.

 

I am not saying NPCs shouldn't have knockback, but as far as I can tell only ranged type NPCs had that pre Makeb, now it seem melee as well.

Edited June 28, 2013 by znihilist

[Andryah]

Ranged NPC have knockback, not melee!

 

Yeah.. exactly. They don't want you in melee range. What is your point?

[znihilist]

Yeah.. exactly. They don't want you in melee range. What is your point?

 

I changed what I wrote, look again.

[Andryah]

I changed what I wrote, look again.

 

OIC.

 

Melee knockbacks are less common in pre-expansion SWTOR.. but again.. not unheard of. I think that is more an artifact of what classes they mapped to the NPC then anything else.

 

NPCs in general are mapped to a character class and use that classes abilities as well.

 

Assassins and shadows have a knockback, as an artifact of their base class.. so I would expect to see any NPC mapped off of them to use the native abilities of the class. Though for a melee NPC.. a knockdown makes more sense to me.

 

In general, I don't think they are making new NPCS with new abilities.. just using character classes and replicating their skills in the NPC. Bosses and such are of course unique in many cases.. but I am referring to the run of the mill fodder NPCs.

 

Again.... Makeb is for veterans.. not for noobs.. so it's perfectly understandable that the mobs might have a few more tricks more often IMO.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Andryah

[znihilist]

OIC.

 

Melee knockbacks are less common in pre-expansion SWTOR.. but again.. not unheard of. I think that is more an artifact of what classes they mapped to the NPC then anything else.

 

NPCs in general are mapped to a character class and use that classes abilities as well.

 

Assassins and shadows have a knockback, as an artifact of their base class.. so I would expect to see any NPC mapped off of them to use the native abilities of the class. Though for a melee NPC.. a knockdown makes more sense to me.

 

In general, I don't think they are making new NPCS with new abilities.. just using character classes and replicating their skills in the NPC. Bosses and such are of course unique in many cases.. but I am referring to the run of the mill fodder NPCs.

 

Again.... Makeb is for veterans.. not for noobs.. so it's perfectly understandable that the mobs might have a few more tricks more often IMO.

 

Well to be fair, it might be one or two types of NPCs that have that (I should take note). But it strikes me as something silly when the NPC knock you back just to attack you again -.-

It bothered me a bit when I ran my first character through Makeb, but now 5 characters later I am okay with it.

 

not unheard of

True! But I think it was more or less unique to more hybrid NPC, such as the elite droids inside the imperial Heroic 4 on blackhole. But it seem to be more "relevant" on Makeb where pure melee npc have that.

[Jandi]

Talz mobs have knockbacks on Hoth and Ilum. Most Gamorrean areas have mobs that knockback. Some sand people have knockbacks. I *think* some of the animals on Kass have as well. These are all melee mobs and this is just off the top of my head as I'm sure there are more.

 

I think it's more noticeable on Makeb because you're fighting near a ledge so often that it becomes something you have to worry about.

[znihilist]

Talz mobs have knockbacks on Hoth and Ilum. Most Gamorrean areas have mobs that knockback. Some sand people have knockbacks. I *think* some of the animals on Kass have as well. These are all melee mobs and this is just off the top of my head as I'm sure there are more.

 

I think it's more noticeable on Makeb because you're fighting near a ledge so often that it becomes something you have to worry about.

 

How in the hell did I miss all of these! You might be correct on the ledge part, even though I always take positioning into consideration when I attack a mob.

[CaptRavenous]

The melee types have a knockback to keep you away from their ranged allies.

 

In theory, anyway.

 

We all know how theory works out in this game.

 

That, and knockbacks are compensation for limited AI programming.

 

Yeah, Bioware, really feeling that "Jedi Experience" when every second bozo I come across with a vibro-electro stick knocks me back, or can amazingly get past my "Jedi Defenses" to deliver a rifle butt to the face. Regardless of whether they are my level, or 20 levels lower than me.

 

End-game. Where Star Wars: The Old Republic goes from "amazing epic experience" to "Pong", and you're the little square dot getting whacked around. Except with a lightsaber. I felt more like an amazing Jedi during the low to mid-level range PvE than I do at high level PvE. Don't get me wrong, I'm not struggling. The knockback is a joke when you have mid-range attacks, and the NPC who knocked you back just runs back up to you again, anyway.

 

What I'm saying is, you're idea for knockbacks being a clever NPC attack ploy is a joke. And an annoying one, at that. You didn't make end-game PvE more challenging, just more annoying.

[Jandi]

How in the hell did I miss all of these! You might be correct on the ledge part, even though I always take positioning into consideration when I attack a mob.

 

Because you don't care about it the same way you do in Makeb due to ledges everywhere. Especially near the drills where you have very little room.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Jandi

[znihilist]

The melee types have a knockback to keep you away from their ranged allies.

 

In theory, anyway.

 

We all know how theory works out in this game.

 

That, and knockbacks are compensation for limited AI programming.

 

Yeah, Bioware, really feeling that "Jedi Experience" when every second bozo I come across with a vibro-electro stick knocks me back, or can amazingly get past my "Jedi Defenses" to deliver a rifle butt to the face. Regardless of whether they are my level, or 20 levels lower than me.

 

End-game. Where Star Wars: The Old Republic goes from "amazing epic experience" to "Pong", and you're the little square dot getting whacked around. Except with a lightsaber. I felt more like an amazing Jedi during the low to mid-level range PvE than I do at high level PvE. Don't get me wrong, I'm not struggling. The knockback is a joke when you have mid-range attacks, and the NPC who knocked you back just runs back up to you again, anyway.

 

What I'm saying is, you're idea for knockbacks being a clever NPC attack ploy is a joke. And an annoying one, at that. You didn't make end-game PvE more challenging, just more annoying.

I always thought it would have been a good idea if mobs 10 level lower or more should become "yellow".

[Brucesim]

I always thought it would have been a good idea if mobs 10 level lower or more should become "yellow".

 

In a way they do. Go back to Dromund Kaas when you are level 30 and run through a clutch of mobs. 90% of the time the mobs won't attack you.

[ObiJuanShenobi]

Talz mobs have knockbacks on Hoth and Ilum. Most Gamorrean areas have mobs that knockback. Some sand people have knockbacks. I *think* some of the animals on Kass have as well. These are all melee mobs and this is just off the top of my head as I'm sure there are more.

 

I think it's more noticeable on Makeb because you're fighting near a ledge so often that it becomes something you have to worry about.

 

Good eye, I never noticed. I only noticed it on Makeb I guess because the mobs feel a little smarter to me than mobs pre-Makeb.

[znihilist]

In a way they do. Go back to Dromund Kaas when you are level 30 and run through a clutch of mobs. 90% of the time the mobs won't attack you.

 

Well that is due to the reduced detection distance.

[swtonewbie]

I think this one of ways to make Makeb quests harder. No real innovation, just more mob with more abilities. But contrary to what you suggest it is not every NPC.

 

In general pack mobs suck, but not because they are hard.

 

Jumping into a pack and getting 4-5 poison darts and then they attack me so i get 4-5 poison debuffs from their weapon?

 

Jumping into a pack and getting hit with 3-4 electro darts which come from an ability that also has a snare, so thats 3-4 snares as well?

 

Jumping into a pack and seeing 2-3 of them open up with hail of bolts?

 

Jumping into a pack of 4-5 wild animals and each of them opening up with their mini punt ability?

 

I think you get the idea...this copy and paste approach to mob and pack design just stinks of laziness.

Edited June 29, 2013 by swtonewbie

[Cleet_Xia]

It does cause a pause when when a mob KB knocks...me...out...of...it's own attack range?

 

Why would it do that?

 

I mean it might do it if the KB would put me or my companion off a cliff. But otherwise, it's just limiting it's own dps.

[Noblis]

So, I'm tanking 3 melee mobs while my friend is killing the 2 ranged mobs. I'm taking damage

from 3 melee creatures - I knock one away - now I'm only taking damage from 2 melee creatures.

By the time the knocked mob returns, his buddies are dead and we finish him.

It seems bad for NPCs to have knockback when they chain them together on one player, but they

only do what their AI tells them (KB off CD = use KB)

In summary : melee NPCs have knockbacks to mitigate some melee damage upon themselves.

[zzoorrzz]

Same reasons player characters have knockbacks...... to get you away from them if you are dealing melee damage.

 

Now, if the NPC is "trying" to use knockbacks on a ranged target.. that would be dumb.... but it's just as fair for an NPC to interrupt, knockback, etc. as a player IMO.

 

Or do you just want the mobs to lay down when you approach so you an stab them to death at your leisure?

 

Btw... this is not new to Makeb. It's been common in the game since day one (I have a young character I am running through Coruscant right now and the number of mobs that knockback is not trivial, but is predictable as they mimic player classes that have knockback.. right down to weapons and armor). Mob density overall is just greater on Makeb and keep in mind Makeb is expansion content for veteran players not noob_sauce for noobs. I think the devs figure you can deal with some knockbacks, interrupts and kicks to the groin from NPCs.

 

It would be even more fair for NPC if they weren't tauntable = so dumb to smash the tank when healer stands besides untouched. Then it would be a fair fight beetween players and mobs.

[MorgothPl]

Try soloing Torvix, where bot ranged elites and melee ones have knockback. At start of each pull you feel like you were ball on pinball table

[Cernow]

Simple reason - sloppy game design.

 

It always makes me sigh when pure melee mobs use a knockback and then run after you. It's nonsense. If they were doing it for 'damage mitigation' as some have suggested, then why run after you? It's not a knockdown, so it's not done for tactical advantage.

 

There's pure melee mobs that do this on many planets throughout the game. The reason it seems worse on Makeb is because nearly everything seems to have some form of crowd control and the mobs come in large packs that chain the crowd control on you. Can get really tedious.

[Zoom_VI]

It does cause a pause when when a mob KB knocks...me...out...of...it's own attack range?

 

Why would it do that?

 

I mean it might do it if the KB would put me or my companion off a cliff. But otherwise, it's just limiting it's own dps.

 

For the same reason that the droids in the black hole herioc pull you to them despite the fact they are ranged, at which point the ranged droid is like "oh snap he's in my face! *KB*" and of course once you've picked yourself off your face the other droid harpoons you to him and then KB you. Then you land next to one of the gold plasma cell mobs who promptly KBs you into the wall.

 

Mobs don't use KB because its goodfor them, they use them because KB annoy the crap out of you

[Marb]

Knockbacks are fine, but I hate how there is no consistency to mobs using them. Like the example with ranged droids who will grapple you to them and then use a knock back. There is also way too many normal rank mobs who have knockback and cc effects, and there is no limit in their AI that prevents them from spamming them on the player. For example in one of the heroics on hoth, there are large groups of sith warrior type mobs who *all* have a force choke move. They all use it in a staggered way, essentially stun locking you, and they all have force push as well.

 

Gold Mobs like turret emplacements and ranged type enemies? I'm fine with that. Ranged mobs who grapple and knockback? just frustrating. Silver and normals having knockbacks and stuns? That's just retarded. I'm all for having cc effects that the group have to deal with and counter with interrupts and movement, but large mixed packs have too many cc effects between them, when they should be a feature that gold rank mobs and higher have, increasing the threat they pose to the group. I'm in favor of having knockbacks come with a short cast time and for cc's to only come from gold ranked mobs and higher in mixed packs.

 

Face-pulling has become normal practice for me in flashpoints, ensuring I always have my gap closer for that inevitable knockback/snare.