Ottoattack Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) This thread is building on Sardonyyx thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6471933#post6471933. Needless to say, pyro tree is under performing in both PvP and PvE and the arrangement of skills will help pyro free 2 skill points to invest in something useful. As a starter Hyper Fuel is in 2nd tier of skills in the shield tech tree and what it does is "increase damage done by all fire effects by 2/4/6% (3 points)". Integrated Cardio Package is in the 1st tier of pyro tree and "increase endurance by 1/2/3% (3 points). What I am suggesting is to send Hyper Fuel to the 1st pyro tree and Integrated Cardio Package to the 2nd tier of the tank tree, since dps trees do not need it anyway. As a design logic you would think that a skill that improves fire effects damage should be in the pyro tree. Just logically it flaws correctly. Having a skill in the shield tech tree doesn't. In terms of functionality, we have a skill improving dps in the tank tree and a skill that improves survivability in a dps tree. Finally, this will free points for the pyro and shield trees (not so sure about AP) to invest in other skills. I potentially seeing just this move improving pyro tree overall dps by 2-3%, which is a start without changing any of the skills functionality or effects. Edited June 25, 2013 by Ottoattack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I admire your trying to make things better, however This doesn't even come close to fixing the problems in pyro. Add more to your petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megatfx Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 This would be a great move to Pyro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 How about no? Most of the tanks doesn't even take Integreated Cardio Package so you would just nerf the tanks damage/threat. I'm all for fixing Pyro, but you don't have to nerf Shield Tech for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 If you're underperforming as a pyro in PVP, you're doing it wrong. It's one of the strongest 1v1 specs in the game. Hyper fuel is a t2 skill. Cardio package is T1. That's not a fair exchange, you might as well ask for flame engine (which is awesome BTW). That's not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melon_Lord Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Pt Pyro is not that bad, it just seems bad in comparison to mercs because they're broken right now. I'm all for an exchange, except I'd prefer Rail Loaders be integrated into Prototype Burn Enhancers, both 2 points both are 3/6%, then just move Hyper Fuel to where Rail Loaders was. We wouldn't be able to max Hyper Fuel, but I'd be happy with that change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Pt Pyro is not that bad, it just seems bad in comparison to mercs because they're broken right now. I'm all for an exchange, except I'd prefer Rail Loaders be integrated into Prototype Burn Enhancers, both 2 points both are 3/6%, then just move Hyper Fuel to where Rail Loaders was. We wouldn't be able to max Hyper Fuel, but I'd be happy with that change. In PVE, where mobs let you free cast all the time, I would agree mercs are in a better place. In PVP? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 The original post was in 6/25/13, which is prior to 2.4. Pyro is defiantly one of the better PvP specs as balance currently stand. I still think that cardio package should go to shield tech and hyper fuel to pyro tree. The 6% additional damage to fire will not make pyro OP in PvP (actually around on par with AP ands some of the most competitive dps) while improve the PvE performance substantially. Not to mention that cardio package has no use in dps tree for any purpose and I guarantee that devs think it is a part of PT overall survivability even through no one uses it arguably even tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebvp Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 The original post was in 6/25/13, which is prior to 2.4. Pyro is defiantly one of the better PvP specs as balance currently stand. I still think that cardio package should go to shield tech and hyper fuel to pyro tree. The 6% additional damage to fire will not make pyro OP in PvP (actually around on par with AP ands some of the most competitive dps) while improve the PvE performance substantially. Not to mention that cardio package has no use in dps tree for any purpose and I guarantee that devs think it is a part of PT overall survivability even through no one uses it arguably even tanks. Actually, I'm pretty sure it's more of a design thing and isn't going away any time soon. Pretty much every class that is not a "pure damage class," has something wonky going on low in their other trees that doesn't seem to fit, most likely to encourage you to cross spec after you've filled your tree. For example: 1) Juggernauts have +3% defense in Vengeance and dps bonuses in Immortal. 2) Operatives have healing and dot talents in concealment (<= this one has never made sense to me) 3) Assassins have damage reduction in madness and damage increasing talents in darkness. 4) PTs have endurance talents in pyro and dps talents in shield tech. etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted December 24, 2013 Author Share Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) Actually, I'm pretty sure it's more of a design thing and isn't going away any time soon. Pretty much every class that is not a "pure damage class," has something wonky going on low in their other trees that doesn't seem to fit, most likely to encourage you to cross spec after you've filled your tree. For example: 1) Juggernauts have +3% defense in Vengeance and dps bonuses in Immortal. 2) Operatives have healing and dot talents in concealment (<= this one has never made sense to me) 3) Assassins have damage reduction in madness and damage increasing talents in darkness. 4) PTs have endurance talents in pyro and dps talents in shield tech. etc... PT is the only tank capable class that have a significant damage improving skill in the second tier of a tank tree. Jugg tank has no damage improving skills in tier 2 of the tank tree. Sin tank only useful damage skill in tier 2 of tank tree is the 18% bonus to forum techniques damage, which would increase their overall damage by 1~1.5%, if so. Hyper fuel is substantial damage. The three points give at least 4% increased overall damage with potential improvement in burst from TD and dots in burn phase for pyro. I would add that sin tank tree has the endurance improving skill in the tank tree as well. Fyi, AP leaves nothing on the table when it comes to damage skills with the 8-36-2 build. Why does pyro always have to sacrifice damage potential to play full tree? And AP overall, performs better in PvE and better (but different) in PvP. Edited December 24, 2013 by Ottoattack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAntan Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Fyi, AP leaves nothing on the table when it comes to damage skills with the 8-36-2 build. Why does pyro always have to sacrifice damage potential to play full tree? And AP overall, performs better in PvE and better (but different) in PvP. Because AP was a joke spec until 2.4? (Pre 2.0 was trash and pre 2.4 was way better use hybrid). Also you dont seem to get it, if you take the 6% fire damage from Shield Tech you are taking a lot of threat from PT tank, because (IF you tanked with your PT before) you use fire skills, like FT to produce a crapton of agro. The 3% endurance is not that great for tanking, I rather have more agro than more hp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebvp Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) PT is the only tank capable class that have a significant damage improving skill in the second tier of a tank tree. Jugg tank has no damage improving skills in tier 2 of the tank tree. Sin tank only useful damage skill in tier 2 of tank tree is the 18% bonus to forum techniques damage, which would increase their overall damage by 1~1.5%, if so. Hyper fuel is substantial damage. The three points give at least 4% increased overall damage with potential improvement in burst from TD and dots in burn phase for pyro. I would add that sin tank tree has the endurance improving skill in the tank tree as well. Fyi, AP leaves nothing on the table when it comes to damage skills with the 8-36-2 build. Why does pyro always have to sacrifice damage potential to play full tree? And AP overall, performs better in PvE and better (but different) in PvP. Yeah, I'm well aware that one point feels like it's missing when you go pyro. No need to FYI unless you want to sound patronizing. Edited December 24, 2013 by thebvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDraxter Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Because AP was a joke spec until 2.4? (Pre 2.0 was trash and pre 2.4 was way better use hybrid). Also you dont seem to get it, if you take the 6% fire damage from Shield Tech you are taking a lot of threat from PT tank, because (IF you tanked with your PT before) you use fire skills, like FT to produce a crapton of agro. The 3% endurance is not that great for tanking, I rather have more agro than more hp yes but then again what sane person that spec`s for DPS would ever even consider wasting 1/2/3 points for 1%/2%/3% extra HP when ur job is to do dmg and thus taking as much dmg potential skills as possible is the way to go, Integreated cardio package has never been on any of my builds it`s totally useless space on my screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooziejr Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Pyro is not underperforming in pvp. The way I see it pyro is just one more buff away from a huge nerf. It is on par with carnage and I run it over AP in rated atm. Edited December 29, 2013 by Kooziejr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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