Sage vs Sorc question

[Tezeretz]

Hey guys! Quick question. I've played mostly sith characters, and loved my sorc the best.

I decided to roll jedi classes now and i finally rolled a sage. I've noticed the sage does WAY better DPS then my sorc. Same/similar gear too. Valiant armor, with highest lvl purples i can wear. sage is only 22 right now, but out dps my sorc.

 

Telekenetic throw does 1500-2500 per tick for me. While force lightning only does 800-1500 per tick for example.

 

Overall...all my sage abilites seem...better in every way lol. So my question is...if they is a mirrored class, why the huge difference? i'm not complaining, i'm just wondering what the differences are? i assume there is a trade off some where? maybe sage does better burst? sorc does better DOT? anyone?

[Gondolindhrim]

They are mechanically identical. Any difference in damage is due to differences in gear, spec, or target.

[Nibbon]

As above poster stated, they are identical. If you are hitting for that much you must be referring to PvP? I doubt everything is identical between your two - in terms of your gear (stats) - or perhaps it is your spec.

[Tezeretz]

exact same spec.

 

 

However due to the level difference...gear is slightly different.

Both are wearing valiant jedi armor, with highest purple resolve armorings and mods. Bolster SHOULD balance them out if they are similar though. But my lower level sage still beats the sorc by a long shot. the only notable difference is the sorc has relics, where i do not yet have any on my sage. so those slots are still empty.

 

 

I'm going to do a test tonight. warzone, with no gear on. just base bolster stats. and see if they are different.

Though the mechanics are the same, they feel VERY different in damage output and my numbers are higher on the sage.

[Jayshames]

I have a 53 Sorc (was my second to 50 and I've played it loads) and a 40 Sage.

Personally, It feels like Sages do more damage. Though I believe that this is because all of the Sorcs attacks are roughly the same (all lightning based) so you don't really see the difference in damage between attacks. Whereas Sage attacks are all different.

 

For example Lightning Strike followed by Shock on a Sorcerer basically just looks identical. Whereas Disturbance followed by Project both look very different and it's easier to see and I guess "feel" the difference between the two attacks.

 

It's very hard to put into words, but in my head I know what I'm saying lol.

[Nibbon]

your spec can't be identical if you are a higher level, unless you are purposely withholding points in your skill tree as you level. I'd also note that one empty item slot can lower your damage output considerably - I know I don't tend to fill in all item slots until I hit 30 on my alts.

 

But yeah, as above poster said - maybe the visuals are throwing you off. I believe he was referring to the visuals making it look like you are doing less damage - but I would go a step further and say the visuals are making you mess up on your rotation.

 

Anyway, I have a 55 sage and 35 sorc and I do quite well on my sorc.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Nibbon

[Tezeretz]

I do very well on both. But i'm positive the numbers are higher on my sage. You mentioned empty slots...but its the sage that has empty slots and STILL doing more damage.

 

to test it and get around the spec issue with more talents for the high level....i specced exactly what my sage could into the DPS tree. all other sorc talents went into the healing tree into skills that only effect heals etc. So yes...the sorc has more talents...but the DPS spec is identical so far.

 

 

and its not just graphical because i do see the effects better on the sage. i still get higher numbers in a warzone on the sage. more testing is needed...but i know the sage is doing better then the sorc. something is not balanced right and i WILL find out lmao

[Nibbon]

At higher level you also buy higher levels of the spells - the targets you are hitting will vary the amount of damage coming out (not just tank, but their level and their expertise). There are a lot of reasons you could be doing more damage/dps on one than the other.

 

Anyway, I am just going to go out on a whim and say you are completely wrong.

[uziforyou]

Hey guys! Quick question. I've played mostly sith characters, and loved my sorc the best.

I decided to roll jedi classes now and i finally rolled a sage. I've noticed the sage does WAY better DPS then my sorc. Same/similar gear too. Valiant armor, with highest lvl purples i can wear. sage is only 22 right now, but out dps my sorc.

 

Telekenetic throw does 1500-2500 per tick for me. While force lightning only does 800-1500 per tick for example.

 

Overall...all my sage abilites seem...better in every way lol. So my question is...if they is a mirrored class, why the huge difference? i'm not complaining, i'm just wondering what the differences are? i assume there is a trade off some where? maybe sage does better burst? sorc does better DOT? anyone?

 

Haha, funny because I was just going to post the exact opposite. My sorcerer seems much more powerful than my sage. Neither is a DPS machine because they are both healing specced but the sorcerer seems better.

 

I've dismissed this though because it simply cannot be. Both classes really are mirror images of each of other.

[XantosCledwin]

They are mechanically identical. Any difference in damage is due to differences in gear, spec, or target.

 

Sorcerer and Sage are in fact NOT mechanically identical.

 

Oh yes, they do indeed have identical Talent Tree's and nearly identical abilities. However there is a key difference. Sorcerer's do their damage using Energy-based attacks (generally of the Lightning variety). Sages however do their damage using Kinetic based attacks.

 

This difference is why Sages appear to do more damage than an equal leveled, geared, spec'ed Sorcerer. Basically what we are witnessing is a universe were the basic armor design includes Energy Dampening or Dissipating equipment (ala the Faraday Cage) because without such equipment, a blaster bolt to the chest would kill instantly. Yet it has been shown that Storm Troopers and other similarly employed individuals have survived blaster bolts to the chest.

 

Kinetic Damage on the other hand is basically the same type of damage that a Bullet in the real world employs. Another word for Kinetic Damage is Ballistics. And it should be noted that Ballistic Weaponry is a fatal flaw in Star Wars. Most shielding in Star Wars does not protect against Ballistic Weaponry. Instead they are geared towards preventing energy weapons from getting through (Ray Shields).

 

Thus when a Jedi launches tiny pebbles at another person using the Force in large quantities and at a really high rate of fire, the best thing you can do, is to dodge. But given enough pebbles thrown at the enemy, and your going to get hit by at least a few.

 

Also, it should be noted that in a head to head fight between a Sorcerer and a Sage, the Sage auto wins because Force Armor negates energy damage more so than it does kinetic damage.

Edited June 20, 2013 by XantosCledwin

[Nibbon]

snip...

 

Hard to tell if you are being cute or being in character here ... but everything you said was pretty ridiculous and could actually confuse people.

 

Energy = kinetic

elemental =internal

 

all attacks that are energy for sorcs are kinetic for sages. Energy and kinetic are effected by armor, elemental and internal are not.

 

see force lightning and TK throw (mirror abilities) as an example:

http://www.torhead.com/ability/a0biEva/force-lightning

http://www.torhead.com/ability/hvB6RtQ/telekinetic-throw

 

and death field / force in balance as the other:

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9xW6YaQ/force-in-balance

http://www.torhead.com/ability/fAylTmX/death-field

 

While they can share the same damage type (as in example 2) they often have the mirror damage type (as in example 1) which has the same armor mitigation.