[PETITION] Please Buff Rewards Gained From Warzones! Stop Punishing Your PvP'ers!

[Leofira]

/sign

[Darthflowmotion]

been following this thread, finnally logged in.

ive been leving my PT through one-two flashpoints a day, and the rest has been warzones with 24% legacy boost, AND the consumable boosts. warzone xp is nothing compared to flashpoint runs. cant complain about credits though, i mastered the art of utilizing lockboxes.. a good, solid win is about 3 boxes.

[Darthflowmotion]

o and /signed

[RaavSW]

Did you guys already mention that PvP starter sets' should be buffed at least to 156 rating? It's really strange their rating is 150 (for lvl55 gear!), since PvE basic sets (for lvl53) are 156.

[Vhexit]

#yoloswag2013

/sign

[DharmaPolice]

You have 8 characters, naturally it costs much more than a single character doing PvP can afford. The same is relevant of those doing planetary dailies... if you use 1 characters activities to fund 8, it's going to suck.

But that's precisely the point - if I've done enough warzones to get Partisan across eight characters then it would be nice if I could have at least made a contribution towards my costs through those eight characters activities. It doesn't.

14 x 36,000 (single toon) is only 504,000. Divide by the estimated 5k (I'll have to hop on and confirm the actual amount) given by the OP, and you're looking at 100 matches. That of course seems like a lot... till you consider you need -way- more than that to buy the Partisan in the first place.

Actually, Partisan is about 100 warzones in terms of comms. But if you're playing anyway seriously you're using medpacs + adrenals + stims. They all cost money, so it's not like you can save 100% of you WZ credits. In fact, you're lucky if you can save 10%.

 

Second Point: I don't think you can deny the time tried and true, real life economics.

There are two important differences between the real economy and SWTOR. Firstly, one of the primary drivers of income=>prices inflation is that income tends to be wages. If a business has to pay more wages then (generally) it has to raise prices to pay those wages. This then increases the pressure on wages which then increases costs further, etc, etc. You don't really have that in SWTOR. The "wages" of players don't push up prices that way.

 

Secondly, on the demand side - the other driver (or explanation) for inflation is the money supply. If I have a million pounds then I will tend to have it invested (in companies, commodities, bank accounts, whatever). This money is effectively then pushing up prices by chasing goods of whatever sort in the economy. In SWTOR that doesn't happen. Your ten million credits just sits there (until you choose to spend it) and doesn't help to push up prices generally. I know a player who has (for whatever reason) accumulated a billion credits (that'd be a few years of constantly 24/7 warzones) - since he's not spending that on anything that money isn't affecting prices as it would in the normal economy.

 

This is not to say that prices wouldn't be affected by an increase in incomes but you can't use regular economic models to predict what would happen. Generally I think the difference would be minimal at best and I find it strange that some players are militantly opposed to PVPers getting more than the pittance than they get presently.

Edited July 15, 2013 by DharmaPolice

[Tragamite]

Did you guys already mention that PvP starter sets' should be buffed at least to 156 rating? It's really strange their rating is 150 (for lvl55 gear!), since PvE basic sets (for lvl53) are 156.

 

It drives me crazy that Partisan gear 55 is the same stats wise as Elite War Hero 50 gear. When they introduced 55 PvE gear they are all better than 50 PvE gear.

[Mordarion]

I wonder if 2.4's PvP update will address any of this?

 

/signed btw .

[theSCARAYone]

I agree with buffing PvP but only for subscribers.

[MrJurgens]

I agree with buffing PvP but only for subscribers.

This, I would have no problem with. I wonder what many of the others that have signed this petition would say.

[Atramar]

I find it funny that people gave away lots of ways to make credits, but some are still saying 'i don't want to work with my brain for money, me like no think, me want credits to come'

you can do crafting while doing pvp, you can do GTN between matches, you can think when you wait for respawn (doors to open or speeder to pilot down)...

 

buying adrenals while you collect comms for gear? spending money on visual while saving money for augments/kits (that can be crafted easly - one way to make money is to sell these to lazy people)?

you want to have cookie, eat cookie and not pay for the cookie... think that's how 'reccession' was born.

[MrJurgens]

I find it funny that people gave away lots of ways to make credits, but some are still saying 'i don't want to work with my brain for money, me like no think, me want credits to come'

you can do crafting while doing pvp, you can do GTN between matches, you can think when you wait for respawn (doors to open or speeder to pilot down)...

 

buying adrenals while you collect comms for gear? spending money on visual while saving money for augments/kits (that can be crafted easly - one way to make money is to sell these to lazy people)?

you want to have cookie, eat cookie and not pay for the cookie... think that's how 'reccession' was born.

Lots of those ways will most likely not be very cost-effective in the long run, and to us, just seem more time-consuming because of how boring it is. Crafting, for example, isn't cost-effective if you're not passionate about wanting to do it or learn the way the market works with it.

 

Crafting takes up a lot of credits for a while before you learn how to master the art, and at that time it will hurt you because PvP offers little-to-nothing in credits. Some of us will not bother with the GTN because it's too risky. You may buy low and sell high, but there's always a chance to be undercut and potentially lose profit (or gain so little it's laughable).

 

We'd rather work with our blood, sweat and tears—work very hard—through PvP means ONLY. You're making it sound like blah, blah, blah, we want it given to us. You sound very narrow-minded right now.

 

 

The medpacs and adrenals we buy with the very little we earn is stuff we want to use so we gain a more competitive advantage in PvP. Most of what we save for is the augments and kits, since to us it would be very time-consuming and not cost-effective, unless we had the patience and dedication for that type of content (which most of us don't).

Edited July 16, 2013 by MrJurgens

[Atramar]

Lots of those ways of aren't very cost-effective and to us, just seem more time-consuming because of how boring it is. Crafting, for example, isn't cost-effective if you're not passionate about wanting to do it or learn the way the market works with it.

 

Crafting takes up a lot of credits for a while before you learn how to master the art, and at that time it will hurt you because PvP offers little-to-nothing in credits. Some of us will not bother with the GTN because it's too risky. You may buy low and sell high, but there's always a chance to be undercut and potentially lose profit (or gain so little it's laughable).

 

We'd rather work with our blood, sweat and tears—work very hard—through PvP means ONLY. You're making it sound like blah, blah, blah, we want it given to us. You sound very narrow-minded right now.

 

 

if you find a niche it can be cost effective. that's the whole point, best money are not being made on mass productions (I mean it is, when you make 1000 of item). So either make a ton or make smart.

no risk no gain - if it would be easy, every one would do it.

 

yeah, I am narrow minded for telling others to do something more then they already do if they want to make money, I'm guilty.

 

through PvP means ONLY.

that is my problem really... you (generally people in this thread, not literally you) keep telling me that mk-9 kits and fancy purple augments cots a lot of moneyz, well, I keep telling them - make them your self. it's cheaper. that is being ignored and I keep hearing 'but we want money through PvP means ONLY.' and the whole conversation is pointless. we had a good one with cycao earlier about extra daily, but it was lost in a wave of /signed and 'biofail hates us pvpers whine'

[vermura]

My 2 cents: Under no circumstances do I ever want to see bots return to warzones, god that was painful.

 

The only reason I actually ever played this game to begin is because WoW's warzones were over run with bots. Guess what happens if it occurs here.

 

The end.

Edited July 16, 2013 by vermura

[Tragamite]

My 2 cents: Under no circumstances do I ever want to see bots return to warzones, god that was painful.

 

The only reason I actually ever played this game to begin is because WoW's warzones were over run with bots. Guess what happens if it occurs here.

 

The end.

 

Valid very valid, which is why I suggest more PvP missions to earn rewards from rather than from the WZ itself.

[MrJurgens]

if you find a niche it can be cost effective. that's the whole point, best money are not being made on mass productions (I mean it is, when you make 1000 of item). So either make a ton or make smart.

no risk no gain - if it would be easy, every one would do it.

 

yeah, I am narrow minded for telling others to do something more then they already do if they want to make money, I'm guilty.

Yeah, you're not getting this.

 

 

that is my problem really... you (generally people in this thread, not literally you) keep telling me that mk-9 kits and fancy purple augments cots a lot of moneyz, well, I keep telling them - make them your self. it's cheaper. that is being ignored and I keep hearing 'but we want money through PvP means ONLY.' and the whole conversation is pointless. we had a good one with cycao earlier about extra daily, but it was lost in a wave of /signed and 'biofail hates us pvpers whine'

A lot of us DO NOT craft. That is the problem. Not only is the cost not worth it somewhat, but we're not going to put our time into sending our companions out on crafting missions when we want to keep as much credits as we can. Some of us hardcore PvP'ers have probably not gone through the Story yet. I have two toons that I leveled a while back who still haven't finished the Story.

 

I'm all for adding more PvP dailies and weeklies as well. Regardless, this is getting support whether you like it or not. The fact we have to do other things we generally don't like to do is why this is getting support.

 

Valid very valid, which is why I suggest more PvP missions to earn rewards from rather than from the WZ itself.

Either WZs themselves get buffs, or we get a ton of more dailies and weeklies added. Whatever helps us get more rewards.

Edited July 18, 2013 by MrJurgens

[Atramar]

Yeah, you're not getting this.

 

 

 

A lot of us DO NOT craft. That is the problem. Not only is the cost not worth it somewhat, but we're not going to put our time into sending our companions out on crafting missions when we want to keep as much credits as we can. Some of us hardcore PvP'ers have probably not gone through the Story yet. I have two toons that I leveled a while back who still haven't finished the Story.

 

I'm all for adding more PvP dailies and weeklies as well. Regardless, this is getting support whether you like it or not. The fact we have to do other things we generally don't like to do is why this is getting support.

 

 

Either WZs themselves get buffs, or we get a ton of more dailies and weeklies added. Whatever helps us get more rewards.

 

I remember time when 'hardcore pvper' ment a person who is doing all he can to increace his performance on pvp. by doing pve, crafting, trading to get better stuff and money for consumables, checking his rotation... not a person who didn't see any part of a world besides where pvp has it place...

yeah, the problem is, you don't craft but want crafted stuff at same time. pvp rewards give you what they should. a little money to keep you going, item comms and consumables (medpack and adrenal) in amounts that are hard to spend... with few ocasional warzones that require that extra edge, I rarely use more then 1 medpack+adrenal per match (if ever).

Edited July 18, 2013 by Atramar

[MrJurgens]

I remember time when 'hardcore pvper' ment a person who is doing all he can to increace his performance on pvp. by doing pve, crafting, trading to get better stuff and money for consumables, checking his rotation... not a person who didn't see any part of a world besides where pvp has it place...

yeah, the problem is, you don't craft but want crafted stuff at same time. pvp rewards give you what they should. a little money to keep you going, item comms and consumables (medpack and adrenal) in amounts that are hard to spend... with few ocasional warzones that require that extra edge, I rarely use more then 1 medpack+adrenal per match (if ever).

I'm not going to do any other parts of content that bore me and that really hurt me in the end. I'm a hardcore PvP'er, but I'm not going to sacrifice time I could be PvP'ing for some other lame and/or content that won't help me out in the end.

 

If PvP rewards give what they should, then I'm not sure why I'm not the only one here who has an issue with the way things are now...

[Atramar]

I'm not going to do any other parts of content that bore me and that really hurt me in the end. I'm a hardcore PvP'er, but I'm not going to sacrifice time I could be PvP'ing for some other lame and/or content that won't help me out in the end.

 

If PvP rewards give what they should, then I'm not sure why I'm not the only one here who has an issue with the way things are now...

show me on a doll where that BAD gtn terminal touched you.

 

that content gives you credits. credits that you want/need to augment your gear. how is gaining credits not helping you?

 

they give exacly what they should, pve dailies don't give consumables for example. just comms and credits that not even cover repair cost.

 

I guess a girl doing farmville 8 hours and posting pictures of cats between, is hardcore gamer and professional photographer.

 

the moment you will have rewards buffed to level it will be more profitable then dailies, the moment you will be filled with credit farmers and people who que just for money (like in lowbie 10-54 some people que in just for exp and it results in terrible games)

 

edit: not to mention, that once you augment that gear that you didn't want to craft, what's next? no sink and monstrous rewards will result in milions of credits on your account that you have nowere to spend, to much money on the marked will end in fast growin inflation.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Atramar

[MrJurgens]

show me on a doll where that BAD gtn terminal touched you.

 

that content gives you credits. credits that you want/need to augment your gear. how is gaining credits not helping you?

 

they give exacly what they should, pve dailies don't give consumables for example. just comms and credits that not even cover repair cost.

 

I guess a girl doing farmville 8 hours and posting pictures of cats between, is hardcore gamer and professional photographer.

 

the moment you will have rewards buffed to level it will be more profitable then dailies, the moment you will be filled with credit farmers and people who que just for money (like in lowbie 10-54 some people que in just for exp and it results in terrible games)

 

edit: not to mention, that once you augment that gear that you didn't want to craft, what's next? no sink and monstrous rewards will result in milions of credits on your account that you have nowere to spend, to much money on the marked will end in fast growin inflation.

HA, HA. Yeah, I'm not gonna mess with a market that may ultimately kill any profit I COULD have gained. And, I have no interest staring at those pages for hours. PvP'ing with other players =/= PvP'ing with merchants.

 

Yeah, that content is risky for someone who doesn't know how to use it and the market, and it's not something I don't want to put my time into.

 

A lot of what you mentioned at the end is pure hyperbole and assumptions. A guy few posts above cleared stated why the market would change (and even if it did, it's be by a such minuscule amount). I never stated they should be buffed to how much PvE'ers earn, but at least to the point where it just doesn't pass the laugh test. Additionally, I never stopped PvP'ing when two of my toons pre-2.0 were fully augmented and min/maxed. I bet many other PvP'ers didn't stop, either.

 

My argument still stands, and this petition won't stop unless we get an answer from a BW stating why the rewards are crappy. This is here in hopes of PvP'ers to get more dailies and weeklies, or to buff the rewards from what we have now.

[Atramar]

Not every one has to be rich.

 

Just mark my words, unbalanced change to warzones credits reward, may give sad effect.

Now it's clear, you pvp for pvp gear (comms) and consumables, dailies (please don't call it pve, it's a grind,under powered mobs and clicky objects are hardly considered Environment) are for credits. When more credits will come, I'm afraid people will que just to get money instead of pvp competition and comms, which will pull pvp quality down, and I bet neither of us wants that.

 

Hopefuly I'm wrong, and I wish I am.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Atramar

[dawitwer]

/sign

[Doomsdaycomes]

Just wanted to chime in a bit here:

 

Lots of those ways will most likely not be very cost-effective in the long run, and to us, just seem more time-consuming because of how boring it is. Crafting, for example, isn't cost-effective if you're not passionate about wanting to do it or learn the way the market works with it.

 

Crafting takes up a lot of credits for a while before you learn how to master the art, and at that time it will hurt you because PvP offers little-to-nothing in credits. Some of us will not bother with the GTN because it's too risky. You may buy low and sell high, but there's always a chance to be undercut and potentially lose profit (or gain so little it's laughable).

 

This particular part is rather naïve/irrelevant. Crafting in and of itself is very simple and... done while you wait. It doesn't take more than a modicum of effort to send companions out while waiting in the queue. Probably the hardest part is determining if you need companions to go get "Scavenged Metals" or "Scavenged Compounds."

 

Craft leveling in and of itself should be done as you level. If you're not maxed out by 55 then you simply haven't been doing it. Mat gathering can also be done manually (again, while waiting in queue!), decreasing costs in exchange for time that you're sitting around wasting any way.

 

Finally, you do not need to sell -anything- you make for crafting to benefit you. Crafting yourself decreases the cost you feel you need to be competitive.

 

We'd rather work with our blood, sweat and tears—work very hard—through PvP means ONLY. You're making it sound like blah, blah, blah, we want it given to us. You sound very narrow-minded right now.

 

To this I simple say: If all I want to do is craft, why do I have to do storylines to get my companions? Sure I could do it with just the one you have to get to be level 10, but no way I can be competitive with other crafters at that rate!

 

^ If you think this is any less valid then wanting to have/do X, Y, Z only through 1 activity, there's a problem.

 

The medpacs and adrenals we buy with the very little we earn is stuff we want to use so we gain a more competitive advantage in PvP. Most of what we save for is the augments and kits, since to us it would be very time-consuming and not cost-effective, unless we had the patience and dedication for that type of content (which most of us don't).

 

Medpacs and adrenals should be sent via pre-40 alts, or from a maxed out toon. Further more, patience is a virtue.

 

A lot of what you mentioned at the end is pure hyperbole and assumptions. A guy few posts above cleared stated why the market would change (and even if it did, it's be by a such minuscule amount). I never stated they should be buffed to how much PvE'ers earn, but at least to the point where it just doesn't pass the laugh test. Additionally, I never stopped PvP'ing when two of my toons pre-2.0 were fully augmented and min/maxed. I bet many other PvP'ers didn't stop, either.

 

Actually... that guys post just hasn't been replied to. Haven't quite had time and I've been in other threads (I find) more important than this issue. I will remedy that shortly, as a lot of his post just isn't correct.

 

My argument still stands, and this petition won't stop unless we get an answer from a BW stating why the rewards are crappy. This is here in hopes of PvP'ers to get more dailies and weeklies, or to buff the rewards from what we have now.

 

This part I can't really argue with. Nothing wrong with wanting to know why something is the way it is. Generally I think other players can (and have) provide(d) the answer for you, but sometimes it does take a Dev post to (hopefully) conclude the issue.

 

 

...and finally, Best Quote of the Day goes to:

 

I remember time when 'hardcore pvper' ment a person who is doing all he can to increace his performance on pvp. by doing pve, crafting, trading to get better stuff and money for consumables, checking his rotation... not a person who didn't see any part of a world besides where pvp has it place...

Well said

[Nothematic]

For God sake Bioware please buff XP gains at the least.

 

Levelling 24 -> 25 through PvP took me 12 warzones @ 9k a pop. If I was PvEing for the same amount of time I could have done a heck of a lot more.

[Doomsdaycomes]

But that's precisely the point - if I've done enough warzones to get Partisan across eight characters then it would be nice if I could have at least made a contribution towards my costs through those eight characters activities. It doesn't.

 

I think you didn't see my point. Using the total cost for all 8 of your characters and comparing it to the income of one character is deceptive (whether intentional or not). When broken down to a per character basis, the cost is much less "extreme" and much more manageable on the current warzone rewards. If anything, it seems perfectly balanced, as you see my next part of the post.

 

 

Actually, Partisan is about 100 warzones in terms of comms. But if you're playing anyway seriously you're using medpacs + adrenals + stims. They all cost money, so it's not like you can save 100% of you WZ credits. In fact, you're lucky if you can save 10%.

 

Alright, assuming Partisan is 100 warzones of comms, and given the earlier total I posted, then those things are balanced. You need 100 warzones to get the armor, and 100 to pay the system fees to upgrade it. The only place you find yourself wanting for credits is wanting for crafted items (kits and augments) which is a crafting issue.

 

As for medpac/adrenals, those don't cost money, they cost comms. Comms you can use from any toon (including either pre 40 alts or fully equipped 55's.) Stims are once more a crafting issue and could cost you next to nothing.

 

There are two important differences between the real economy and SWTOR. Firstly, one of the primary drivers of income=>prices inflation is that income tends to be wages.

 

*snip*

 

That sounded very educated and impressive, but it's irrelevant. The more spendable income potential (credits per hour), the more the market can (and will) inflate. You may know a guy who knows a guy who knew this girl that had a boyfriend that had 100billion credits but never spent it. That is the exception, not the rule.

 

Simply put: If I can make 5 credits an hour, I'm not gonna spend 500 on 1 item. If I make 500 credits an hour, I won't blink.

 

Generally I think the difference would be minimal at best and I find it strange that some players are militantly opposed to PVPers getting more than the pittance than they get presently.

 

I don't think any one is militantly opposed to the idea, but some people do find it their responsibility to point out when someone is basing their demands on bad/false ideas. I personally have a pet peeve of people who feel they are justified cherry picking content.

 

However, I do find that PvP rewards are underwhelming when compared to the whole of PvE. The problem I see isn't in the PvP rewards, but rather in its content. Rewards don't need a buff, it just needs -more- content with rewards.