Deminishing Return... The real #'s and results

[dougiepants]

I have done allot of searching on this forum and talking to tons of players. It seems the idea behind deminishing return is all over the board. So I thought I would try and start a thread that let all of us find out where deminishing return really starts to effect our numbers. What is the actual stat number where deminishing return starts? I am interested in stats for Crit, Surge, Defense, and Shield Absorption. These are the four main stats I keep hearing different numbers on all the time. I am always chasing after the best way to have BIS Gear. Im stacked heavy surge but wanting a more hard deminishing return number to cut surge and add alacrity as a healer. I have heard that there is a more noticeable difference with alacrity once you really increase it.

[Jherad]

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-1190.html

 

Diminishing.

[haksilence]

The diminishing return for EVERY non linear stat starts at 1

These returns are a curve not a pivot point.

[dougiepants]

I understand that it is a curve and not a hard line drop off for the stat. Im just looking for the "soft cap" peak number for each stat before they start curving off. Just trying to make the most out of my bis gear for my toon and my guildmates.

[Scotland]

http://oi40.tinypic.com/10cpv90.jpg

[Mahael]

http://oi40.tinypic.com/10cpv90.jpg

 

If this is true then it is super valuable thanks! It also means the only stat worth worrying about under 800 rating is surge which seems to get harsh right around 300 or so. This, of course, doesn't make knowing exactly what stat will give you the most benefit at any given time easy. It does however give us some facts to work with.

 

Can anyone verify this chart?

[cashogy_reborn]

surge DR is not too bad. you can stack it in every slot and still get near 1% increase per slot.

 

cirt, alacrity, and accuracy on the other hand are utter crap. the only thing you might want to take is some accuracy, to get close to 95%. other than that, stay away from these 3 stats. the returns are absolutely terrible.

[Scotland]

If this is true then it is super valuable thanks! It also means the only stat worth worrying about under 800 rating is surge which seems to get harsh right around 300 or so. This, of course, doesn't make knowing exactly what stat will give you the most benefit at any given time easy. It does however give us some facts to work with.

 

Can anyone verify this chart?

 

The chart is accurate.

[dougiepants]

surge DR is not too bad. you can stack it in every slot and still get near 1% increase per slot.

 

cirt, alacrity, and accuracy on the other hand are utter crap. the only thing you might want to take is some accuracy, to get close to 95%. other than that, stay away from these 3 stats. the returns are absolutely terrible.

 

So you feel that as a sorc for instance. The best way to increse crit is from the crit you gain from increasing willpower and not stcking crit over surge?

[haksilence]

surge DR is not too bad. you can stack it in every slot and still get near 1% increase per slot.

 

cirt, alacrity, and accuracy on the other hand are utter crap. the only thing you might want to take is some accuracy, to get close to 95%. other than that, stay away from these 3 stats. the returns are absolutely terrible.

 

dontlisten to this guy, he is spewing utter nonsense.

 

EVERY dps needs as close to 100% accuracy, period.

surge scales REEALY fast but hits a wall at around 300 rating after 350 your just throwing stat budget away, not to mention suge is not that great unless you have substantial crit, and since 2.0 nerfed down crit ratings surge is realy not that valuable.

Crit, while it scales realy slowly, it has a negligible DR that would be nearly impossible to stack enough to notice any real difference. If your class has any surge tallents in their tree something with the wording "increases the critical damage bonus to blahblah ability by 30%" yourgonna want a decent amount of crit. 300-350 if not, then no crit at all.

Alacrity is a clas by class stat. certainclasses benefic much more than others.

All healers benefic greatly from alacrity, sage DPS benefits, combat sentinals benefit, certain sniper builds do, ect ect. so alacrity should be used after youve hit your accuracy mark (100%) and your surge mark (250-300 rating) if your class can benefit from it.

[SomeJagoff]

dontlisten to this guy, he is spewing utter nonsense.

 

EVERY dps needs as close to 100% accuracy, period.

 

 

Not the case after 2.0

 

Operative and Sorc DPS use exclusively force/tech attacks and although npcs now have a 10% force/tech resistance, still not worth wasting probably 7-12 pieces with accuracy just to get to 110%.

 

For Deception Assassins, you need ~450pts accuracy to get to 100%, at the cost of surge in nearly every piece of gear.

 

In both cases, utter waste of stats.

 

Carnage Mara is one of the only classes that gets a ton of accuracy from skill tree/stance, so you only need accuracy on like 3 pieces (~200pts) to get to 100%. Even in the case of carnage mara, 6-7% accuracy is from talents/stance alone, the 200pts only gives you like 3% accuracy.

 

Every other class, you need way more, absolutely not worth it.

 

So Cash was right, ~95% accuracy for most dps classes is what to aim for, anything more than that, you're wasting stats.

[haksilence]

Woops was thinking PvE forgot players dont have a 10% force/tech resist chance.

[funkiestj]

So Cash was right, ~95% accuracy for most dps classes is what to aim for, anything more than that, you're wasting stats.

 

It came as quite a shock to me that only my marksman sniper's basic attack uses the ranged base accuracy of 90%. All other ranged attacks are special and have the same 100% base accuracy as tech attacks. (W T F? What is the point of the ranged/melee accuracy then if it only applies to the basic attack).

 

So 95% melee/ranged accuracy ==> 105% tech/force/special which overcomes most non-tank defense.

 

For tank killers, you might want enough accuracy to overcome the target's resistance.

[Pistols]

dontlisten to this guy, he is spewing utter nonsense.

 

EVERY dps needs as close to 100% accuracy, period.

 

Yeah....no.

[Pistols]

Woops was thinking PvE forgot players dont have a 10% force/tech resist chance.

 

You shld edit your previous post, and grovel for forgiveness to the Almighty Dany.

[islander]

It came as quite a shock to me that only my marksman sniper's basic attack uses the ranged base accuracy of 90%. All other ranged attacks are special and have the same 100% base accuracy as tech attacks. (W T F? What is the point of the ranged/melee accuracy then if it only applies to the basic attack).

 

So 95% melee/ranged accuracy ==> 105% tech/force/special which overcomes most non-tank defense.

 

For tank killers, you might want enough accuracy to overcome the target's resistance.

 

LOL me too - I'm a full time MM also.

 

I was actually running OVER 100% basic/110% 'special' for weeks post 2.0 thinking this. I generally ran 102-103 % basic for weeks. I never did before 2.0 because my crit rate was about 50% higher then versus now - giving up surge was patently foolish with a 37-38% crit rate.

 

What's even funnier, is that my warzone output wasn't adversely affected at all from a raw damage standpoint. I missed the surge a little bit, but not as much as you'd think.

 

My highest 'finite timed' warzone (meaning not a novare/alderaan, which can string out for up to 30 minutes) output during this period was a voidstar where I did 800k damage. One nice thing was being able to hit literally everyone all the time. Even with saber ward up, a DPSer I'd still ding them over half the time.

 

My highest similar 'finite timed' warzone since then was last night, where I hit 900k (almost exact). However, before last night my high was 848k.

 

Going back and forth, you definitely do see some challenges with killing power/finishing someone off with overloaded accuracy...but I mean, lots of accuracy for a MM does work better then you'd think. (edit: I'm NOT recommending to any MM to go this high, making this clear - this statement was a commentary on the usefulness of accuracy)

 

Even now, I still run 98/99% basic accuracy. Lots of DPS juggs/sins/sorcs and their republic twins with 10% base defenses these days. Gives me I think 67% surge. Difference between that and low 70's surge is ehhh. I like not missing better.

Edited June 6, 2013 by islander