Addons in Swtor

[Erasimus]

WoW did allow me to set up a macro that used multiple abilities on one button though I did have to press that one button multiple times to actually launch the abilities. My Pally tank was set up for two buttons for the rotation where I would spam the first button until a certain proc and then hit the second button twice before going back to spamming the first. I could eat dinner while tanking a raid boss because of that macro set.

 

I don't want to see that Pandora's box opened again. I imagine a good many raid boss mechanics in WoW exist because the Dev's know they have to deal with add-ons and tweak the mechanics of fights to take those into account.

 

Games would be much better if the QoL changes were made directly to the game instead of opening the flood gates to 3rd party programs.

That is called a cast sequence macro and I've never known a good player, PvP or PvE that used a cast sequence macro. In the progression raiding guilds I've been in using a Cast Sequence Macro is equivalent to a mouse clicker or a keyboard turner. For that matter you can make those in SWTOR with any of the macro enabled hardware devices. In fact Cast Sequence macros don't even violate the SWTOR macro policy since there is only one action per key press.

 

I too would like to see all these players that claim WoW is easy do some of the heroic mode raid encounters. Heck I just finished the Green Fire quest Scenario on my Warlock. I'm a decent player and it took me 20 attempts get all of the timing and movement down to defeat the final encounter and most others I've talked to take even longer.

 

Even with add ons and macros I have a lot more keybinds, cooldowns, etc. that I keep track of in WoW than on any of my SWTOR characters.

 

I'd like to see UI add ons in SWTOR for QoL and greater variety as much as anything else. Macros, well I can already create all the macros (very few) I'm interested in using my current hardware.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Erasimus

[Jeweledleah]

there's a difference between quality of life improvements and add ons that make your game easier to play.

 

DBM DOES make the game easier. sure there's a lot of stuff to watch out for, but it yells at you. it counts down for you. it tells you exactly when to move, when to interrupt, when to cleans, when to do every. little. thing. WoW is only harder on people who hit encounters first, those people who feed data to DBM. but majority of people? are not these pioneers. they LITERALLY have to complicate encounters to make them more challenging becasue they need to COMPENSATE for dbm. and for majority of people, it makes dbm a requirement to play. from an optional addon, it now has become a must have.

 

proc watches, etc etc. the kind that literally yell in your face - use this ability now, are one step above something that lets you know when ability is of cooldown, etc. they take it one step further and ... make the game easier. (and incidentally. SWTOR hardmodes and nightmare modes are not exactly easy either. on the contrary. hell EC nightmare can still be a PITA, and its 5 levels below current content)

 

auctioneer. I love how people say that its merely a quality of life improvement when in reality its "i win button" it tracks auctions for you. it analyzes market for you. it finds prices for you. with a single click it creates a listing for you without you ever having to think about anything again.

I've used it. becasue I will freely admit, i'm lazy and I'm not very good at playing the market on my own. but what it also does is - if you want to be even remotely successful? you need auctioneer. from optional addon - it has become necessary.

 

as for actual quality of life improvements, further customization of UI and the like?

 

It.

DOes

NOT

need

to be

third party

addon.

 

imo? IT shouldn't be. becasue one of my least favorite things about being basically stuck using addons in wow, because core game without them is... nearly unplayable. one of the things that annoyed me to the point of "screw it, I can't even enjoy this anymore" is inability to play my game after every. songle. patch. becasue even with advance warnings to developers, addons would break. they won't load. they will crash. and then there's a matter of people deciding not to update addons anymore (or even just taking a prolonged break) and you are stuck trying to find an alternative. if you are lucky? there is one similar enough to allow you to adjust somewhat quickly.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[RicoFrost]

Macros would be very welcomed and a few improved ui options such as

Damage meter

Moveable buff/debuff icons/bars

Changeable buttons backgrounds

Changeable unit frames

Clickable part/raid frames for healers like vuhdo or healbot

[Mallorik]

I don't think they can do any of this stuff until they hire someone smart enough to untangle the mess that is their engine or figure out how to migrate the game to another engine(lol).

 

 

I used to think the devs were just ignorant like the low info anti addon people whos only experience in an mmo is wow. But theres no way someone in the industry can be this blind and this stupid for this long, the reason they don't have macros and addons has to be the same reason they cant implement chat bubbles or characters sitting in chairs. lol sorry those two issues always make me laugh.

 

They made an mmo that incorporates all the "dumbing down" of a modern mmo i.e. fast easy leveling, you have to go afk in a heroic area to die. And left out all the cool innovations of modern mmos i.e. addons, macros, lol chat bubbles and combat windows (oh wait those aren't modern theyre ancient and they still don't have them)

[Mallorik]

Ok, for starters let me make this point perfectly clear as many people STILL don't get it and it frustrates me to no end:

 

THIS IS NOT WoW!!!!!!

 

Everyone knows that. They tried to be wow and failed, and this thread shows why.

 

If mmo players didn't like add ons, macros, dmg meters, combat windows or a real dual spec system they probably wouldn't have left this game like it was a house on fire.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Mallorik

[Khevar]

Everyone knows that. They tried to be wow and failed, and this thread shows why.

 

If mmo players didn't like add ons, macros, dmg meters, combat windows or a real dual spec system they probably wouldn't have left this game like it was a house on fire.

You actually think the lack of Add-Ons was the reason people left this game in 2012?

[Mallorik]

You actually think the lack of Add-Ons was the reason people left this game in 2012?

 

You actually think that addons are the only thing this game was and still is missing?

[Khevar]

You actually think that addons are the only thing this game was and still is missing?

Nope. But you seem to think the lack of add-ons is turrubly turrubly important:

If mmo players didn't like add ons, macros, dmg meters, combat windows or a real dual spec system they probably wouldn't have left this game like it was a house on fire.

I, on the other hand, think that the lack of add-ons is an irrelevant footnote in the reasons this game bled subs in 2012.

[Mallorik]

Nope. But you seem to think the lack of add-ons is turrubly turrubly important:

 

I, on the other hand, think that the lack of add-ons is an irrelevant footnote in the reasons this game bled subs in 2012.

 

 

I think the idea to make an mmo with all the watered down game play of a "wow" mmo made for people with ADD yet leave out all of the true innovations of modern mmos was a stupid idea.

[Khevar]

I think the idea to make an mmo with all the watered down game play of a "wow" mmo made for people with ADD yet leave out all of the true innovations of modern mmos was a stupid idea.

You won't get any argument from me about this sentiment in general.

 

I only take issue with "add-ons" being considered one of the "true innovations of modern MMOs."

[Mallorik]

You won't get any argument from me about this sentiment in general.

 

I only take issue with "add-ons" being considered one of the "true innovations of modern MMOs."

 

I do consider them very big innovations and they have lead to even more(maybe even most) innovations in mmos because they gave the players the power to invent And put their ideas to actual use for the devs to see who in turn adopted them.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Mallorik

[Khevar]

I do consider them very big innovations and they have lead to even more(maybe even most) innovations in mmos because they gave the players the power to invent And put their ideas to actual use for the devs to see who in turn adopted them.

Sorry, I just don't buy that. Just look earlier in this very thread. Do you see the examples of add-ons that automate the actual activity of playing the game for you? How is this "innovative"?

[Mallorik]

Sorry, I just don't buy that. Just look earlier in this very thread. Do you see the examples of add-ons that automate the actual activity of playing the game for you? How is this "innovative"?

 

You don't buy it because you don't know what youre talking about, and that is the problem with this thread. people with little to no experience and even less knowledge on the subject speaking like they are experts.

 

Yes there are addons in some games that can be considered to "automate" things for you but there are far far more addons that have since been adopted by devs because they were great ideas. But the fact that you don't know that is just proof you shouldn't be arguing against it.

 

Devs can control at what level their addons will go, will they just effect the bank, gtn or ui but not boss timers? devs can do that. But again the fact that you don't know any of this is just another reason why you shouldn't be arguing about this.

[Khevar]

... Yes there are addons in some games that can be considered to "automate" things for you but there are far far more addons that have since been adopted by devs because they were great ideas. ...

Such as?

[Mallorik]

Such as?

 

Are you kidding me? youre here relentlessly arguing about a subject you know absolutely nothing about and now you want to be educated on the subject?

 

If you went through a list of qol features added to wow or rift or even this game more than half of them would probably be able to be traced to player made add ons.

 

Custom ui's are how addons started, almost everything in our custom uis today can be traced to player made addons. Mouse over healing, cool down timers, floating combat text, aution house improvements, bag and bank improvements were all incorporated into games after first being used in addons.

[Khevar]

Are you kidding me? youre here relentlessly arguing about a subject you know absolutely nothing about and now you want to be educated on the subject?

 

If you went through a list of qol features added to wow or rift or even this game more than half of them would probably be able to be traced to player made add ons.

 

Custom ui's are how addons started, almost everything in our custom uis today can be traced to player made addons. Mouse over healing, cool down timers, floating combat text, aution house improvements, bag and bank improvements were all incorporated into games after first being used in addons.

Lulz @ "relentlessly arguing". I'm just chatting on a subject of minor interest to me. If you want to see "relentlessly argue" you should dig up my old "don't nerf LI thread" that went on for 8 months.

 

"Mouse over healing", "cool down timers", "auction house" are all examples of add-ons that automate the activity of playing the game for you. Personally, I could take them or leave them. Don't care if they're added, don't care if they're not.

 

You think these are "true innovations of modern MMOs", and if they were included "people probably wouldn't have left this game like it was a house on fire"

 

I think you're VASTLY OVERSTATING their importance in the MMO landscape.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Khevar

[Ratajack]

Are you kidding me? youre here relentlessly arguing about a subject you know absolutely nothing about and now you want to be educated on the subject?

 

If you went through a list of qol features added to wow or rift or even this game more than half of them would probably be able to be traced to player made add ons.

 

Custom ui's are how addons started, almost everything in our custom uis today can be traced to player made addons. Mouse over healing, cool down timers, floating combat text, aution house improvements, bag and bank improvements were all incorporated into games after first being used in addons.

 

 

When did WoW implement mouse over healing? When did WoW implement AH improvements? When did WoW implement cooldown timers? To the best of my knowledge, to get any of those things in WoW, you still require an ADD-ON.

 

 

Sure there are some games that may have those features, but that does not mean that every game MUST have them.

 

There are some things that WoW added due to add-ons, but as far as I know, none of the things you listed fall into that category. Yet you want to call those against add-ons clueless?

[Ratajack]

Lulz @ "relentlessly arguing". I'm just chatting on a subject of minor interest to me. If you want to see "relentlessly argue" you should dig up my old "don't nerf LI thread" that went on for 8 months.

 

"Mouse over healing", "cool down timers", "auction house" are all examples of add-ons that automate the activity of playing the game for you. Personally, I could take them or leave them. Don't care if they're added, don't care if they're not.

 

You think these are "true innovations of modern MMOs", and if they were included "people probably wouldn't have left this game like it was a house on fire"

 

I think you're VASTLY OVERSTATING their importance in the MMO landscape.

 

Unfortunately, the problem is that there are many players who want to claim they are "leet", yet they cannot play without these add-ons. Those players are not truly "leet", but rely on crutches to tell them when to move, when the next wave of adds is coming, when that AOE from the boss in incoming, automate their auctions, etc.

 

Take those crutches away and many of those players will likely go back to a game that has those crutches rather than face the truth that they are not "leet" or learn to play without those crutches.

[Khevar]

Unfortunately, the problem is that there are many players who want to claim they are "leet", yet they cannot play without these add-ons. Those players are not truly "leet", but rely on crutches to tell them when to move, when the next wave of adds is coming, when that AOE from the boss in incoming, automate their auctions, etc.

 

Take those crutches away and many of those players will likely go back to a game that has those crutches rather than face the truth that they are not "leet" or learn to play without those crutches.

Howdy Rata. Yeah, I get what you're saying here. It also seems that the more people that adopt such crutches, the more the devs have to up-tune the instances, the more such add-ons become a requirement rather than just QoL.

 

Hey, since Mallorick has a misconception on what "relentlessly argue" means, maybe we should revisit the companion loot roll thread and REALLY blow his mind?

 

/jk ;)

Edited March 5, 2014 by Khevar

[chuixupu]

"Mouse over healing", "cool down timers", "auction house" are all examples of add-ons that automate the activity of playing the game for you. .

 

Either you're not really sure what these features do, or you have a different definition of "automate" then the dictionary.

 

I think you're VASTLY OVERSTATING their importance in the MMO landscape.

 

You're underestimating them. They're a huge part of community and game feedback that is directly picked up by developers.

 

Unfortunately, the problem is that there are many players who want to claim they are "leet", yet they cannot play without these add-ons. Those players are not truly "leet", but rely on crutches to tell them when to move, when the next wave of adds is coming, when that AOE from the boss in incoming, automate their auctions, etc.

 

Take those crutches away and many of those players will likely go back to a game that has those crutches rather than face the truth that they are not "leet" or learn to play without those crutches.

 

Sorry, but no. I've been playing this game since launch with no addons. The type of addons I enjoy are simply quality of life additions that take the pressure off the devs to fix them. Wouldn't you like an in-game calender? An ability to save sets of gear? Something to tell you which of your alts has which crafting materials and how many without logging on to each character and looking through your bank? All these kinds of things can be created by the community through addons.

Edited March 5, 2014 by chuixupu

[genthek]

Everyone knows that. They tried to be wow and failed, and this thread shows why.

 

If mmo players didn't like add ons, macros, dmg meters, combat windows or a real dual spec system they probably wouldn't have left this game like it was a house on fire.

 

You completely missed my point (and also quoted that out of context).

 

The game is not WoW nor does it try to be WoW. It lost a lot of subs when it was fresh for two reasons:

 

1. Tons of WoW players flocked over. Once they saw this game wasn't WoW Star Wars they weren't interested.

2. The game launched with TONS of issues they've since fixed.

 

WoW is the best at what it does. It's the better MMO and if people are looking for nothing but an awesome MMO then I suggest WoW. However, TOR excels in what WoW has lacking. Story and questing experience. (Although granted the actual questing itself can get monotonous as other MMOs at times).

[Mallorik]

You completely missed my point (and also quoted that out of context).

 

The game is not WoW nor does it try to be WoW. It lost a lot of subs when it was fresh for two reasons:

 

1. Tons of WoW players flocked over. Once they saw this game wasn't WoW Star Wars they weren't interested.

2. The game launched with TONS of issues they've since fixed.

 

WoW is the best at what it does. It's the better MMO and if people are looking for nothing but an awesome MMO then I suggest WoW. However, TOR excels in what WoW has lacking. Story and questing experience. (Although granted the actual questing itself can get monotonous as other MMOs at times).

 

I don't think I missed anything, this game most definitely tried to be wow with a star wars skin, right down to cut and pasting wows abilities into swtor. And they did a good job of copyng wow, in 2005.

 

 

And this game didn't launch with anymore "issues" than any other mmo I can think of including wow. The choice to not include qol features like a automated group finder and addons isn't an "issue", it was just a stupid managerial decision that continues to this day.

[Mallorik]

Unfortunately, the problem is that there are many players who want to claim they are "leet", yet they cannot play without these add-ons. Those players are not truly "leet", but rely on crutches to tell them when to move, when the next wave of adds is coming, when that AOE from the boss in incoming, automate their auctions, etc.

 

Take those crutches away and many of those players will likely go back to a game that has those crutches rather than face the truth that they are not "leet" or learn to play without those crutches.

 

You are just totally clueless. Most of the people I know in guilds who have had hm ops on farm for months and geared out several alts waiting for nm to finally get here all want some form of addons.

 

And wow with dbm is still way more difficult than anything in this game, I like swtors raids and I think they are coming along as they learn more but anyone who says swtor is more difficult because it doesn't have addons just doesn't know what theyre talking about.

[Khevar]

...

 

Sorry, but no. I've been playing this game since launch with no addons. The type of addons I enjoy are simply quality of life additions that take the pressure off the devs to fix them. Wouldn't you like an in-game calender? An ability to save sets of gear? Something to tell you which of your alts has which crafting materials and how many without logging on to each character and looking through your bank? All these kinds of things can be created by the community through addons.

These types of things sound like good ideas.

 

And again, I'm not trying to fight the inclusion of add-ons. I primarily entered this thread when Mallorick tried to claim that the lack of add-ons were the reason people "left the game like it was a house on fire."

 

Either you're not really sure what these features do, or you have a different definition of "automate" then the dictionary.

Perhaps. But add-ons that make it easier to raid, by doing work that the player would otherwise have to do, seem to be automation to me. While it's not like I'd be upset of such a thing existed in this game, it's seems hyperbole to present them as vital innovations.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Khevar

[Mallorik]

When did WoW implement mouse over healing? When did WoW implement AH improvements? When did WoW implement cooldown timers? To the best of my knowledge, to get any of those things in WoW, you still require an ADD-ON.

 

LOL, wow, rift and SWTOR all have features in there ah that can be traced back to player made addons. Wow, swtor and rift all have cool down timer options. Wow and rift both have native mouse over healing by use of macros like /cast @ and /mouseover.

 

 

And thanks for another great example of why people should not be listening to you.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Mallorik