Force lightning: overpowered at lower levels?

[TogashiDeckard]

I'm playing a sentinel, now at lvl 26. Realistically, anything a ranged attacker can do to slow me down (or immobilize me) and lets them do damage is basically an immediate death, but force lightning seems to be the worst by far. I'm getting the hang of attack chains and all (force jump + something that cuts speed is good...) but I die a lot, and it's almost always to force lightning. Once it starts, there's just nothing I can do. I can't catch the caster to hit them. I can't run away. I only have one use of Resolute every two minutes, which often won't even get me out of the lightning long enough to catch them. If I'm lucky I can turn the tables and choke them in return, but of course I need focus to do that, seem to need to be much closer, and it has a much higher cool-down time.

 

Basically this equates to the game being just fun enough to keep me playing so that I can be upset at how much force lightning sucks. As I was building my skill tree I noticed that things would help with the problem, but the classes should be balanced from lvl 1 all the way up to 50, not just when you get enough points in your tree to start to deal with it.

[Sziroten]

I'm playing a sentinel, now at lvl 26. Realistically, anything a ranged attacker can do to slow me down (or immobilize me) and lets them do damage is basically an immediate death, but force lightning seems to be the worst by far. I'm getting the hang of attack chains and all (force jump + something that cuts speed is good...) but I die a lot, and it's almost always to force lightning. Once it starts, there's just nothing I can do. I can't catch the caster to hit them. I can't run away. I only have one use of Resolute every two minutes, which often won't even get me out of the lightning long enough to catch them. If I'm lucky I can turn the tables and choke them in return, but of course I need focus to do that, seem to need to be much closer, and it has a much higher cool-down time.

 

Basically this equates to the game being just fun enough to keep me playing so that I can be upset at how much force lightning sucks. As I was building my skill tree I noticed that things would help with the problem, but the classes should be balanced from lvl 1 all the way up to 50, not just when you get enough points in your tree to start to deal with it.

 

don't you have a.... "gapcloser"?

[Sharee]

When attacking a sorcerer as a low level sent, don't open with force jump. Try to save it for when you need to close the gap mid-fight.

Later on you will have more tools to deal with this situation(stealth+speed on a 45s timer etc.)

[KettleBelll]

You may enjoy the game more as Ranged DPS. Level 26 is still easily early enough to consider a different character type.

[TogashiDeckard]

don't you have a.... "gapcloser"?

 

Said gapcloser gets me to them once. Then they immobilize me. Then I break it. (Which I can only do about once every other death.) Then they immobilize me again, because force lightning seems to have a really short cooldown.

 

As for changing classes, I really shouldn't have to do that to enjoy the game. Every class should be enjoyable in PVP and PVE. And yeah I appreciate that it'll be less of a problem later, but I should get better at dealing with their tricks as they get better at dealing them, not just fall over every time I see one until I reach LVL 45.

[MotorCityMan]

Let the poor sorcs have their fun. They are cannon fodder later on. You and your team mates will be crawling over each other to see which of you gets to the sorc first for an easy kill.

[Jayshames]

All classes are OP at low level. I suppose if you look at it from a different angle then they are all equal which is fine.

 

Ravage hits like 7k's all the time in 10-29 bracket.

[Sziroten]

Said gapcloser gets me to them once. Then they immobilize me. Then I break it. (Which I can only do about once every other death.) Then they immobilize me again, because force lightning seems to have a really short cooldown.

 

As for changing classes, I really shouldn't have to do that to enjoy the game. Every class should be enjoyable in PVP and PVE. And yeah I appreciate that it'll be less of a problem later, but I should get better at dealing with their tricks as they get better at dealing them, not just fall over every time I see one until I reach LVL 45.

 

Sorry to say but this seems to be a L2P issue.

 

You have a stun, you have a gapcloser (they have a stun, they have a force run) very early on. Later on you are getting additional stuns (force grip) and additional knockback, defensive abilities (which you should use) ..... . Until Sorcerer aren't getting their bubble stun/ knockback stun they are fodder and when they get it, you've get more defensive cooldowns, stuns etc. and after all this, why should a sorc not beat you in 1 vs. 1... as that would mean that the classes seem "balanced"?

[mulzii]

a couple of things. First, on low levels, use disruption on FL. Alot of sorcs get confused when FL is disabled, and run around like chickens with their heads cut off wondering how you are hacking. Second, use crippling slash to keep them close. I usually spec focus when levelling those early levels, so i have zealous leap by 26. Thats a second gap closer. Use this with crippling to keep them around 10m when they start to run. Throw a point into Incisor first if you are being kited alot and cant keep up.

 

With a sorc on low levels, it usually comes down to disabling FL, ZL and force charge, crippling ans smash. Use force stasis as another interupt. I cannot remember if you have the combat hide at 26, but i would use this when a sorc starts FL me and i'm rooted or leaps are on cooldown. One it makes them lose you as a target for a second, and 2 it lets you run at them for 4 seconds without getting their big dmg or LoS them. pop rebuke at the being of the fight and refresh it when its off cooldown. A few more levels and then you can use ZL when rooted, which helps even more.

 

just my two cents. I have a marauder and sentinel. Both are OP at some levels and UP on others. Snipers give me the most issues. When you do get to them, they just knock you away and root you. but thats a different story and different tactics to counter them as a sent. Sorcs are only really a pain when there are more than 2 and spamming FL and i'm dotted to hell. but usually i avoid getting into the crossfire of multiple anythings (especially snipers).

Edited June 2, 2013 by mulzii

[TogashiDeckard]

"The problem will be solved if you just level up till you have X abilities" does not equal a L2P issue. That's a dumb answer. A sentinel shouldn't just fall over and die every time it sees a sorcerer till it gets to level 40 or whatever. Most people casually trying out the game are gonna quit way before that happens, because they'll decide PVP sucks. Of course a damage character should beat a healer in 1 on 1. Healers are supposed to stay out of danger and/or deal very little damage. They're utility units, not fighters. If TOR doesn't agree with that, then there's part of the problem.

 

Force Stasis isn't usable when stunned... I understand I can use it to stun them so they can't stun me, but as soon as they're out they're gonna force lightning me again, and I can't stasis them again, because it has a cooldown or needs Focus... Not gonna load the game right now to see which it is.

 

The fact that the game doesn't have key-bindings assigned for the secondary or tertiary quickbars is also absurd. Nor does it tell you that you can add key-bindings to them. Given how important that is for effective P2P play, that too is pretty mind-blowing. There are so many controls the game never tells you about.

Edited June 4, 2013 by TogashiDeckard

[Belly]

They are having a hard enough time balancing things at the end game. You can't expect everything to be balanced in the early and mid game as well. Imagine if Warriors got their vicious throw around lvl 20, you'd be virtually unstoppable in lowbie wzs.

 

You'll have a hard time, but I wouldn't say you are a free kill. You have a couple of roots yourself at that level (if you're carnage) and you can get obliterate if you go rage. If you think sorcs are bad, fight a good sniper at that level, you'll never complain about sorcs again. (and no, i'm not saying snipers need a nerf)

[Avicii]

The fact that the game doesn't have key-bindings assigned for the secondary or tertiary quickbars is also absurd. Nor does it tell you that you can add key-bindings to them. Given how important that is for effective P2P play, that too is pretty mind-blowing. There are so many controls the game never tells you about.

 

You apparently have more problems then just playing your class if figuring out how to assign keys to quickbars perplexes you. I have a friend that never played an MMO before or any game on a PC and he had no issues understanding this last month when he picked the game up. Dont equate your lack of understanding to others.

[Jherad]

Everything is overpowered in the lowbie bracket. My sin's maul regularly crit for over 11k in the 20s.

[DirtyDusty]

Yeah those sorcerers make lowbie pvp a living hell sometimes. When i've had enough, i hop on my scoundrel, retrait to scrapper tree and then go hunting them mercilessly to the point of ignoring objectives.

[kweassa]

Classic L2P issue.

 

Heck, it's not even exclusive to SWTOR. Any game, any PvP, and you will have the melees complaining about ranged, and ranged complaining about melees.

 

Just for the record, Force-wielding melees in this game have it pretty easy to approach and catch up with ranged classes. If you want to know what it is like to be "too difficult" to fight a ranged class with a melee, go roll any melee class in WoW and then try fighting against Frost-mages.

[warstory]

Can't remember if u have your interrupt at your level but use that

[Leafy_Bug]

When I rolled my sentinel, it was the year of the sorc. Huttball was full of them and basically it was them casting crushing darkness, deathfield, boltz, more boltz, before I could even get close, my hp would be under 50%. I would get close, he would overload stun me, move away and repeat his tactic. Then there was a period when I got lubed by sorcs and snipers with my sentinel. Leap, root, leap, root, snare, dead, etc. This was in lowbies where the sentinel was practically dragon fodder.

 

As soon as I hit 41, merciless slash was available, things changed. Also, I went middle tree, and the kiting sorc was prevented from kiting. Ataru is superb when you have them annoying sorcs and snipers but you will still have your *** handed to you if you meet a very good sorc that knows how to kite, stun, keep you immobilized.

 

The l2p argument can only go so far, of course, we cannot compare a sorc with a sentinel however we cannot simply discard that sorcs can rape everything if played correctly.

[Capt_Beers]

"The problem will be solved if you just level up till you have X abilities" does not equal a L2P issue. That's a dumb answer. A sentinel shouldn't just fall over and die every time it sees a sorcerer till it gets to level 40 or whatever. Most people casually trying out the game are gonna quit way before that happens, because they'll decide PVP sucks. Of course a damage character should beat a healer in 1 on 1. Healers are supposed to stay out of danger and/or deal very little damage. They're utility units, not fighters. If TOR doesn't agree with that, then there's part of the problem.

 

Force Stasis isn't usable when stunned... I understand I can use it to stun them so they can't stun me, but as soon as they're out they're gonna force lightning me again, and I can't stasis them again, because it has a cooldown or needs Focus... Not gonna load the game right now to see which it is.

 

The fact that the game doesn't have key-bindings assigned for the secondary or tertiary quickbars is also absurd. Nor does it tell you that you can add key-bindings to them. Given how important that is for effective P2P play, that too is pretty mind-blowing. There are so many controls the game never tells you about.

 

PvP should totally be balanced around people that use their CC breaker on Force Lightning, don't know how to set up their hot keys, don't know how Force Stasis works and aren't aware that there are DPS Sorcs.

 

You just need to learn to play your class better. That or roll a Sage and see what the weaknesses are.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Capt_Beers

[kweassa]

The l2p argument can only go so far, of course, we cannot compare a sorc with a sentinel however we cannot simply discard that sorcs can rape everything if played correctly.

 

Actually the L2P arguments go further than any "excuse" given in favor of why "its too hard to catch a sorc" complaints. People have this nasty habit of so often forgetting that combat is a dynamic environment. There are so many factors that does not involve powers or specifications directly, and all of that environment is open for people to use. Anything, ranging from terrain, obstacles to even basic psychiatry and insight -- its all of what makes an important part of PvP.

 

The really funny thing in this forums is that people so often complain that "SWTOR PvP is not about skill, only about powers and specs", and yet, as soon as some people mention the skill factor, they just revert back to the same thing they were complaining about, and give powers and skills as an excuse to why their favorite class is disadvantaged.

 

Baloney, I say.

 

I use all classes, but primarily melees, and finding opportunities or chances to strike at ranged classes without "blowing 50% HP before I even get there" was really not such a hard thing to do, even back in 1.1, 1.2, 1.3... in all of the days of the sorc/sage prime.

 

Reading into how the battle flows, which players are distracted or tunnel-visioned against whom, which people are not expecting an ambush or a sudden attack, which terrain piece to hug, and which attack pattern you will use to attack -- and then even escape, these are all elements of experience and practice that's really much more important than just powers.

 

Unfrotunately, it is also the element that people in this PvP boards usually sorely lack in all aspects.

Edited June 4, 2013 by kweassa

[IGotRawr]

I agree that simply dismissing this a 'L2P' issue is a bit vague. As a sentinel at low lv you don't have much in the way of CC abilities and you won't ever have, I always felt sentinels and marauders were lacking a bit of CC, but what you do have and always will is a mean punch of damage. And sorcerers are the squishiest class in the game, of course they can instantly heal themselves for quite a bit every 30 seconds, I believe, but as soon as have him in your sweet spot it comes down to cooldowns and resolve, if his means to get away are cancelled out by your full resolve bar then you should have no problems at all. Balance sages and madness sorcerers present a challenge for any non-stealth melee class though, they're made for kiting and they can simply watch you drop dead while they get away with force speed and sip a drink. Like in all MMOs some classes counter others, once you become more experienced and have a better understanding of the game you'll be able to adapt your tactics to any class you're facing.

 

Now if we're gonna discuss OP, shadows and assassins are right at the top (Still beatable though!)