ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Soluss]

Actually no.. I am not assuming anything.. People are already asking for a restriction to be lifted.. That is just the start.. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that if Bioware allows it once and then calls it permanent, people will be back here asking to allow it twice or more.. I mean as it is now, they don't know what permanent means.. What makes you think they will know what it means after it is allowed once??

 

It isn't an assumption it is called common sense..

 

I changed my AC at level 45 and I don't like the other AC... Why cant I switch back just this once. It isn't fair!

[branmakmuffin]

I changed my AC at level 45 and I don't like the other AC... Why cant I switch back just this once. It isn't fair!

Exactly. Who cares how many times or how often you switch ACs. It's gonna cost CCs every time you do it. It's no one else's business how you spend your CCs.

 

Sarcasm is a dangerous tool.

[Soluss]

And you keep implying that because it works this way now, that means it can't ever be changed. Talk about a weak argument. I used this way back in the thread, but here it is again. This is how your argument goes:

 

We want to raise the speed limit on this street from 25 to 35.

You can't do that.

Why not?

Because the speed limit on this street has always been 25.

 

There may very well be good reasons to not change something, but "Because it's always been this way" is not one of them.

 

Never said it couldn't be changed.... Not once.

[branmakmuffin]

Never said it couldn't be changed.... Not once.

I didn't say you said it.

[Soluss]

Which means it's their game to change, isn't it?

 

Sure does and as I said a few times now... im voicing my opinion that I would like them to leave it the way it currently is.

 

And I don't care if you are opposed to AC change. i also don't care that much if it's ever allowed or not. But I am capable of appreciating that not everyone is the same as me when it comes to playing TOR.

 

And I don't care that you are not opposed to AC change. I also don't care that much if its ever allowed or not. I personally like it the way it is and I am voicing my opinion. If its change then so be it. I have no control over that but I do get to say my preference. What I don't like is childish remarks...."you must be new to MMOs" "you have been debunked". That's not discussion that's a 10 year old throwing tantrum trying to get his way. When that particular poster wants to have a discussion, then I will have one.

[branmakmuffin]

Sure does and as I said a few times now... im voicing my opinion that I would like them to leave it the way it currently is.

And if you stop right there, we are in total agreement. You don't like it, you would probably rather they expend development effort on other stuff. Fine.

[Soluss]

And no one will ever force you to change your characters' ACs. Yet you want to deny that option to others. That's childish.

 

No, its not childish. I view that its healthy for the game to give people a meaningful choice. There use to be a lot more meaningful choices that vanished in beta. If you think having an opinion is childish then perhaps you are the childish one.

 

I certainly do have that right. Watch:

 

You may no longer post in this thread.

 

Making you do what I say? That's another matter.

 

Semantics.

 

I am staying out of your business. I am not trying to tell you how to play the game. You are trying to tell others how to play the game.

 

No actually, you are not staying out of my business. If I want to post my opinion on the matter then I will do so. You trying to tell me what to do is getting in my business. Im not telling anyone how to play the game. Im telling them how the game is played according to the current mechanics.

[Soluss]

Exactly. Who cares how many times or how often you switch ACs. It's gonna cost CCs every time you do it. It's no one else's business how you spend your CCs.

 

Sarcasm is a dangerous tool.

 

I care.

[Soluss]

And if you stop right there, we are in total agreement. You don't like it, you would probably rather they expend development effort on other stuff. Fine.

 

Then we are in agreement. Not that we need to be in agreement. I wanted to discuss it further but all I get is "you must be new to MMOs" " you have been debunked" " stay out of other peoples business". Last I checked, this was a discussion forum not a topic poll.

[branmakmuffin]

I care.

Why? It has no affect on you if someone else changes his character's AC. I get that you probably think there are better things to expend development effort on, but beyond that, your position is untenable.

 

Then we are in agreement. Not that we need to be in agreement. I wanted to discuss it further but all I get is "you must be new to MMOs" " you have been debunked" " stay out of other peoples business". Last I checked, this was a discussion forum not a topic poll.

"Mind your own business" is what I have said. And it is none of your business. To say you just don't like AC change is one thing. To try to justify your opposition by saying it affects you, that's just bunk.

Edited July 27, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Darth_Wicked]

Pretty long topic, ain't it?

[Soluss]

Why? It has no affect on you if someone else changes his character's AC. I get that you probably think there are better things to expend development effort on, but beyond that, your position is untenable.

 

If my position was untenable then why do you think this has not been changed? Is it possible that BW agrees with my side of it? This game was suppose to have choices and consequences for making those choices. This is one of the few things that still remains from what we use to have. I believe it makes the game better. Its only indefensible in your opinion. Its not about development time, I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

I am also not trying to defend anything. Im just giving my opinion and trying to discuss it. It does have an effect on me if AC chage is allowed. It is removing one of the very few lasting decisions the game gives you. It would also effect me if say I was in a raid looking for certain gear and some fresh AC change, that still cant even play his class yet, swoops it up because he all of a sudden needs fresh gear. It effects me when I join a random flashpoint and there is a fresh healer, that use to be melee dps, has no clue how to heal and I waste my time for the next half hour wiping. You may think it has no negative effects and that's fine, but I believe it does have negative effects.

[branmakmuffin]

If my position was untenable then why do you think this has not been changed? Is it possible that BW agrees with my side of it?

Geez, you know, I imagine it would take more than a snap of the fingers to implement.

 

This game was suppose to have choices and consequences for making those choices.

No, this game, like all games, is supposed to be fun. If you want meaningful choices, you need to look somewhere other than a computer game.

 

This is one of the few things that still remains from what we use to have. I believe it makes the game better. Its only indefensible in your opinion. Its not about development time, I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.

If it's not about development time, your position is even less tenable and more capricious.

 

It does have an effect on me if AC chage is allowed.

It does not, except to the extent you allow it to bother you.

 

It is removing one of the very few lasting decisions the game gives you.

So what?

 

It would also effect me if say I was in a raid looking for certain gear and some fresh AC change, that still cant even play his class yet, swoops it up because he all of a sudden needs fresh gear.

There have been and always will be legions of players who are inept at playing their class. And if a players "needs" on gear for the character's current AC, what's the problem?

 

It effects me when I join a random flashpoint and there is a fresh healer, that use to be melee dps, has no clue how to heal and I waste my time for the next half hour wiping.

You mean like if a DPS Op re-specs to healing?

 

You may think it has no negative effects and that's fine, but I believe it does have negative effects.

Again, the only effect is you allowing it to bother you.

[Ratajack]

So you admit that even at level 45, a player can't get a full idea of what he's dealing with, yet you want them to redo everything back to level 1 on a different AC, based on a gamble that they may or may not like the class. That's just pointless.

 

 

By your logic, they should not even create that first character, since they are doing so on a gamble that they may or may not like the class.

 

As you are so fond of saying, you have been debunked.

[Ratajack]

I resent the remark that you view any portion of my post dishonest... There is nothing dishonest about my posts.. I would welcome you to point out anything that is less than completely honest in my posts..

 

I just call things like I see it.. Our arguments are logical and based in fact.. Their arguments are based on lies and a glaring lack of logic..

 

You have pointed this out in a number of your own posts..

 

That comment was directed at the poster who quoted you and chose to misrepresent what you had said, not at you. I apologize if there was any confusion.

[TridusSWTOR]

Gonna have to break down the ignorance there as you put it..

 

Yes.. They will have a good idea how the AC they are trying is going to play at lvl 10.. That is the way the game is designed.. You get most of the key skills before level 10.. Then you can choose your AC and do a few missions on their capital world.. You are still level 10 at that point.. The way the AC plays at level 10 is going to be the same at level 55.. If they don't like it they can roll another character.. It is absurd to expect someone to hate their AC as late as 45.. They will have been playing the same play style for 35 levels..

 

Nice job for again being oblivious to the obvious..

 

He just openly admitted that you get the same skills at level 10 and level 55. There is no difference according to him.

 

Wow....Just wow.

 

You are clearly just trolling at this point. Good job and giving me a laugh.

 

Come back when you actually decide to come up that makes sense within the game. Gee, what's he going to say next "Lightsabers are real...".

[TridusSWTOR]

Except for one small fact.. The people that don't want AC swapping are arguing for things to stay the way they currently are.. We are not imposing our play style on others..

 

That last part was pointed out for the benefit of someone else.. Not you Bran..

 

One small fact, if an AC change were put in the game.

 

Well you could choose not to do it. Instead of what you want, which is no choice.

 

For the, well I lost count now, time stop enforcing your beliefs out of greed and selfishness upon other players.

 

I provide choice, you do not. You can't prove me wrong.

[NrDLeipe]

You say that like it means something. If, for example, Powertech became a FOTM, that wouldn't allow Marauder players to switch to Powertech. So unless "half the population" (Imperial) were playing Mercenaries, your hyperbole is just that.

 

And in any event, who cares? Again, it's none of your business what someone does with his or her CC or how often he or she does it. Even though you say you are OK with AC change in a limited way, that's what this is all about for you, dictating to others how to play their game;.

 

were talking about ac not a complete change, and im not dictating anybody its my opinion i aint forcing anybody or anything

[branmakmuffin]

were talking about ac not a complete change, and im not dictating anybody its my opinion i aint forcing anybody or anything

You are advocating to continue preventing people from doing something which has no effect on you.

[Soluss]

Geez, you know, I imagine it would take more than a snap of the fingers to implement.

 

I know, its only been discussed, since the game was in beta. It probably takes atleast 2 or 3 years to write some code on it.

 

No, this game, like all games, is supposed to be fun. If you want meaningful choices, you need to look somewhere other than a computer game.

 

What you got there is an opinion. I happen to find meaningful choices, in an MMO, to be fun. Who are you to tell people what is and is not fun? What was it you said? Oh yeah, stay out of other peoples business.

 

If it's not about development time, your position is even less tenable and more capricious.

 

Your opinion and nothing more then your opinion.

 

It does not, except to the extent you allow it to bother you.

 

That could be said about anything.

 

So what?

 

I like permanent choices that's what.

 

There have been and always will be legions of players who are inept at playing their class. And if a players "needs" on gear for the character's current AC, what's the problem?

 

Of course there are legions of players that are inept at playing their class. There are a lot less of them when they have been playing that class for a long period time. Someone starts healing a 55 HM, after never healing before, wastes my time. Shouldn't have to spend my time, at end game, wiping over and over while someone learns to play. In the leveling game is one thing. There are baby steps in the leveling game. In the end game, there are no baby steps.

 

I don't feel its fair to other players that are trying to gear up are now competing for gear with someone that has already geared up. I find that to be a problem.

 

You mean like if a DPS Op re-specs to healing?

 

Chances are, they have already experimented in that because they have been able to for 55 levels.

 

Again, the only effect is you allowing it to bother you.

 

Again, you could say that about anything.

[NrDLeipe]

You are advocating to continue preventing people from doing something which has no effect on you.

 

noo my opinion is that " I " dont mind if they give ( bw ) give a 1 time change , no were did i say that they MUST do it like that they are in controle not you or me

[Soluss]

One small fact, if an AC change were put in the game.

 

Well you could choose not to do it. Instead of what you want, which is no choice.

 

For the, well I lost count now, time stop enforcing your beliefs out of greed and selfishness upon other players.

 

I provide choice, you do not. You can't prove me wrong.

 

You already have that choice when you create the character.

[Ratajack]

The game went F2P, they are going to nickle-dime you. That is how it works in MMO's when they go F2P. The money has to come from somewhere.

 

Those guys that leveled a class to 45 or even level 12 put in effort. Because it doesn't meet other players view as "effort" doesn't mean it's any less. Horrible line of thinking.

 

The person who has only leveled a sorcerer to level 45 put in effort to get a sorcerer to level 45. He did NOT put any effort into getting an assassin to level 45.

[branmakmuffin]

The person who has only leveled a sorcerer to level 45 put in effort to get a sorcerer to level 45. He did NOT put any effort into getting an assassin to level 45.

So what? No one's gonna make you switch your level 45 Sorc to an Assassin.

 

The point of the game is to have fun, not to "expend effort" (unless pretending you are expending effort is how you have fun).

[Ratajack]

I am providing an option that quite a few players would like added.

 

 

You are asking to be able to undo a decision that each and every player is advised at least 4 times is PERMANENT and even has to click the confirm button at least twice to confirm that they know it is PERMANENT and that they are sure they want to make that PERMANENT choice.

 

This is something many players do NOT want to see added.

 

I guess we're at an impasse, and so maybe it should be left as is, as BW designed and implemented it.