ETA on Advanced Class change?

[branmakmuffin]

im wondering if these people have ever played an rpg before?

What are you implying, that class has something to do with RP? Class-based systems facilitate meta-gaming, not RP.

 

the same would be true for people and choosing classes, ergo we should have class changes as well?

What we should have is a classless system. Because the storyline is tied to class and companions, changing that would be as much work as changing factions.

 

Im sorry, this is a complete waste of time when they could be working on actual story content

You're not sorry or you wouldn't have said it at all.

 

or resolving the 1001 pvp bugs.

Your true motives are revealed. But that's fair enough. You simply don't like the idea of AC change and that is the one valid reason to oppose it.

 

Or an Assassin or Druid

Dear me I feel so old knowing that off the top of my head, a sign of a childhood misspent

You're lucky you didn't become a Satan-worshiper?

 

Or are you ...?

Edited July 26, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[LordArtemis]

If letting the game's choices re: class and its associated abilities lock you into a particular style is fun, fine. I can only assume you do not like to RP, which is also fine. I don't RP in TOR, although I do in LotRO.

 

I do see your point. I can see how both ways could be fun, in my perspective for different reasons.

 

Just to be clear, I did not like getting locked into a particular look...I wanted to enjoy the individuality of the class and AC I chose gameplay wise, not appearance wise. I find it most fun to look the way I wish to look without restrictions.

 

I can also find value in a completely classless system as well.

Edited July 26, 2013 by LordArtemis

[branmakmuffin]

I do see your point. I can see how both ways could be fun, in my perspective for different reasons.

 

Just to be clear, I did not like getting locked into a particular look...I wanted to enjoy the individuality of the class and AC I chose gameplay wise, not appearance wise. I find it most fun to look the way I wish to look without restrictions.

"Individuality" and "class" are anathema to each other. But we are stuck with a class-based system.

Edited July 26, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Vhaegrant]

You have actually stated the core of the problem as I see it. The AC is supposed to have meaning IMO, and it has little to none at the moment. Allowing AC change would make it even more meaningless.

I think the setup of the AC was to segregate the abilities that pertain to healing and tanking roles mainly. I suspect that allowing the mainly passive equipment/stance based abilities of a tank to be integrated with the more active ability casts of a healer would be bad balance for PvP.

Hand in hand with this is the 'Off the shelf' blurb and product promotion that focuses on numbers, saying 'choose from 16 Advanced classes spread across 8 unique storylines' sounds a lot better than 'choose from 8 classes', especially when the opposition (any other MMO) have so many classes available to them.

I wouldn't advocate allowing a Class change, the Class to me in SWTOR being defined more by the story choice than the Advanced Class selection.

 

Note: I will not campaign to prevent AC change like some others have done, or argue with those that desire it. I will even support certain compromises, abet with a bit of disappointment. I will not try and dictate how others play.

At the same time I feel I should express my personal views on the matter as they relate to the thread. That is not an attempt to change anyone's mind...just adding my two cents.

Noted and duly respected

[Vhaegrant]

You're lucky you didn't become a Satan-worshiper?

 

Or are you ...?

 

I'm not telling

 

With all the roleplaying books I have now I think I should be a librarian, a very poor librarian

[Vhaegrant]

From: This thread started in the suggestions forum today

 

I chose assassin over sorc and I wish I hadn't. It's not really my play style, but I didn't figure that out until I played PVP at level 41.

 

How about a cartel purchase to switch advanced class?

 

I'd pay all kinds of paper money for that.

 

See, a potential for more revenue

[Ratajack]

 

That said, while you see it as something you want to have meaning, but others don't, locking them into the AC choice, which lets face it at level 10 is pretty arbitrary because even if you want to heal or tank (dps is pointless as it is only a different way to dps) you cant know whether you like it or not until you play it for minimum 15 levels.

 

 

In WOW you choose your class at level 1 not level 10, so it's even more difficult to know if you will like how your chosen class tanks or heals. WOW does not allow class changes, even though it is even more difficult to know if you will like the class you chose at creation than the one you choose at level 10.

 

Why should this game allow class changes if other games do not, even though it is more difficult to know if you will like your chosen class in those games?

[Ratajack]

I think the setup of the AC was to segregate the abilities that pertain to healing and tanking roles mainly.

 

I believe you would be correct as the devs have already stated that they intentionally designed the classes(AC's) such that no one character could fill all three roles. Allowing class (AC) changes would negate this, even if a character did not have access to tanking and healing abilities at the same time, it still undermines the design intent of not allowing a single character access to tanking AND healing abilities at any time.

[Ratajack]

 

Finally - please, enough of the 'just reroll another character and level it to 55' crowd. Most people don't want to do that

 

And here we have what seems to be the main reason why people want class changes-an aversion to work or effort. I know there's a word that means aversion to work or effort, and if the shoe fits....

[branmakmuffin]

And here we have what seems to be the main reason why people want class changes-an aversion to work or effort. I know there's a word that means aversion to work or effort, and if the shoe fits....

It's a game. "Work" and "effort" do not apply. The only word that applies is "fun." You have fun your way and stop worrying about how others have fun. You'll be happier for it.

[TridusSWTOR]

In WOW you choose your class at level 1 not level 10, so it's even more difficult to know if you will like how your chosen class tanks or heals. WOW does not allow class changes, even though it is even more difficult to know if you will like the class you chose at creation than the one you choose at level 10.

 

Why should this game allow class changes if other games do not, even though it is more difficult to know if you will like your chosen class in those games?

 

Why does this game have lightsabers, but others do not? Get rid of lightsabers please.

[Ratajack]

many of the gamers who the idea of an AC change would be appealing to have either unsubbed or don't frequent the forums

 

The forums have always been comprised of a vocal minority, and there are likely just as many players who do not frequent the forums who would oppose class changes as there are players who would favor class changes who do not frequent the forums.

 

With regards to drawing back players to the game, they might draw some players back, but they will definitely lose some players if they allow class changes. Would they draw back as many as they would lose? Would there be as many players who resub as would unsub and leave this game? No one knows, but it is possible that BW is content to keep the player base it already has rather than risk losing players in the hopes that they draw some players back in.

 

Remember, any players they draw back in have already left this game once and would be more likely to leave this game again than those who have stayed with it from the time they started playing.

 

As I said before, right now they have those posters who are against class changes paying and playing, as well as those who are in favor of class changes. If they allow class changes, those who feel strongly enough about class changes WILL leave. Does it make more financial sense to keep everyone playing and playing or to keep only some of those paying and playing now?

[TridusSWTOR]

And here we have what seems to be the main reason why people want class changes-an aversion to work or effort. I know there's a word that means aversion to work or effort, and if the shoe fits....

 

Let's remove sprint. After all why should we be able to run everywhere? Doesn't make sense, even marathon runners need to stop.

 

Why don't we pay for fuel on our speeders? Doesn't make sense, add extremely high fuel cost to speeders.

 

How can a instant spawn droid repair armor with one click? Doesn't make sense, it should take at least 12 hours and you have to mail ahead to make sure they are still working on it.

 

Looks like you promote aversion to work and effort already.

 

You have been debunked.

[TridusSWTOR]

AC change:

 

3 times only per character.

High CC/credit cost

Usable 11-55.

 

That's all that is required. The end, bioware please put this in the game.

[Ratajack]

It's a game. "Work" and "effort" do not apply. The only word that applies is "fun." You have fun your way and stop worrying about how others have fun. You'll be happier for it.

 

If the only word that applies is "fun" then why do people that do not find doing OPS "fun" have to do OPS to get BIS gear? Why do people who do not find grinding rep "fun" have to grind rep to get the items those vendors have for sale? Why do people who do not find the leveling process "fun" and only enjoy end game have to level each new class they want to play?

 

That would be because "fun" is NOT the only word that applies here. Some things require "work" and "effort", even in a "game". Playing a different class should remain one of those things.

[MajikMyst]

It's a game. "Work" and "effort" do not apply. The only word that applies is "fun." You have fun your way and stop worrying about how others have fun. You'll be happier for it.

 

I see this kind of attitude to be incompatible with gaming.. Fun does not mean you can make up your own rules or demand that rules be changed.. Yet that tis exactly what the pro AC swapping crowd is doing.. They are demanding that the rules be changed to accommodate them..

 

What if I were to demand that the Rooks in chess be allowed to move like queens?? I suppose other folks shouldn't worry about how I want to play the game?? It would certainly be more fun for me to have basically 3 queens..

 

Changing your class should never be allowed.. Period.. There should be no discussion.. Just like there is no discussion about having Rooks move like Queens.. You all are asking for a fundamental rule in the game to be changed.. That is just wrong..

 

It also does effect all of us.. Because you are changing the game that we all play.. The argument that people don't have to use it is just a fallacy.. You know people will use it.. Because it is allowed.. That doesn't make it right or mean it should happen..

 

This kind of mentality is really stupid.. I can certainly give you a ton of examples to show this.. Like the chess one..

 

It would be more fun to just start a game of monopoly with a million dollars.. That would be more fun for me.. And your going to say that, that would effect the other players.. Well.. So does AC swapping.. You can deny it all you want, but that doesn't change the facts..

 

The argument about the AC not being a class is simply moot.. It is a false argument.. Nobody on this forum other than Bioware has the right to determine what is or isn't a class.. Further more, there is no set of rules that can be applied to all MMO's to define a class.. Without such rules, all you are doing is creating a double standard.. Which in itself proves the pro AC swapping crowd wrong..

 

In the end, it boils down to this.. There is no reason to allow AC swapping and it would violate the fundamental rules of the game to allow it.. So not only are their no reasons to allow it.. There are some very good reasons not to..

 

Again you all can deny this all you want.. You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.. Games have rules.. Some of these rules should never be broken.. No other MMO allows class changing.. Case closed..

[Yungscion]

In WOW you choose your class at level 1 not level 10, so it's even more difficult to know if you will like how your chosen class tanks or heals. WOW does not allow class changes, even though it is even more difficult to know if you will like the class you chose at creation than the one you choose at level 10.

 

Why should this game allow class changes if other games do not, even though it is more difficult to know if you will like your chosen class in those games?

Strawman much

 

1) In WoW your class is you class and all class abilities are gained from level 1 and depending on the class will be dps, heal and or tank in nature (ie second spell I got while leveling my priest was a heal spell). Conversely in SWTOR you have only your parent class abilities which are all unspecialized DPS abilities and do not get any heal/tank abilities until you pick your AC . The comparison of WoW classes to SWTOR classes doesn't work as WoW makes all classes available at creation (giving you plenty of time to see if you like before you become really invested), where as SWTOR muddies the water with the whole parent class AC thing, on top of the differences in abilities gained as stated above.

 

2) To me this is the big point, assume 10 levels to really decide if you like a class, that mean you would be level 20, in your first chapter of you story, probably have spend some CC to unlock things, and possible level 1 legacy which again could mean some unlocks, not to mention affection levels and crafting leveling. If you don't like your class your basic option is to redo all that. Unless your only concern is end game, that's not really a appealing option. Compare that with WoW with no unlocks, minimal crafting (I think the most you could get to is 75 in any profession by level 10) , and the ability to change your story by picking another race, and the concept of rerolling is a little more palatable.

 

3) WoW is not the end all be all final word of MMO's so can we please stop making this comparison.

[TridusSWTOR]

Just as it is their decision if they choose NOT to allow class changes, which they have not, at this time.

 

In the time that this thread has existed, everyone of the entitled masses wishing to change their class could have leveled that other class to 55 and probably gotten that new character well geared. I guess some people would rather ask for something to be given to them than to actually put forth the effort to get what they want.

 

Clear cut quote and you want to enforcing your belief/rules on other players, even though you don't pay their sub.

 

How's that for entitlement?

[Ratajack]

AC change:

 

3 times only per character.

High CC/credit cost

Usable 11-55.

 

That's all that is required. The end, bioware please put this in the game.

 

I and many others do not like those terms.

 

How about:

 

One time AC change

AC change reverts character to level 10, resetting all non story quests

All companions remain, no loss of companion affection

Character retains all unique and no longer obtainable items

Passive XP boost granted to those characters who change AC to offset loss of XP from already completed story quests.

 

I can say that is all that is required, as well. That doesn't make it so.

[MajikMyst]

AC change:

 

3 times only per character.

High CC/credit cost

Usable 11-55.

 

That's all that is required. The end, bioware please put this in the game.

 

No...

 

Save the credits and roll another character of the opposite AC..

 

Problem solved..

 

Not to mention you will make some more money.. Have another character for crafting or just a gathering toon..

 

I have both a sage and a shadow.. It isn't that hard.. There is no reason to allow AC swapping..

Edited July 26, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Yungscion]

And here we have what seems to be the main reason why people want class changes-an aversion to work or effort. I know there's a word that means aversion to work or effort, and if the shoe fits....

 

Or maybe we can stop name calling like toddlers and realize that some people have other prorities and would like to just, you know, continue their story/unlocks/crafting/affection only as a different AC because the learned they don't like the one the picked.

[MajikMyst]

3) WoW is not the end all be all final word of MMO's so can we please stop making this comparison.

 

No.. This game was based on WOW.. So it is an awesome example.. You just don't like it because it proves you wrong and you can't argue around it..

 

You don't get to change the facts to prove your point, nor do you get to decide what other game applies or doesn't..

 

WOW applies because this game is essentially the same game just based on Star Wars.. I am sorry if the WOW comparison essentially destroys your arguments..

Edited July 26, 2013 by MajikMyst

[TridusSWTOR]

If the only word that applies is "fun" then why do people that do not find doing OPS "fun" have to do OPS to get BIS gear? Why do people who do not find grinding rep "fun" have to grind rep to get the items those vendors have for sale? Why do people who do not find the leveling process "fun" and only enjoy end game have to level each new class they want to play?

 

That would be because "fun" is NOT the only word that applies here. Some things require "work" and "effort", even in a "game". Playing a different class should remain one of those things.

 

How does that level 11 guy choosing his AC at the first time effect anyone's gameplay? Please tell us all how it impacts every other player around him, to the point they take notice.

 

I'm sure I'll be waiting a long time.

[Ratajack]

Or maybe we can stop name calling like toddlers and realize that some people have other prorities and would like to just, you know, continue their story/unlocks/crafting/affection only as a different AC because the learned they don't like the one the picked.

 

They made a PERMANENT choice they decided later they didn't like, so we should just let them undo it?

 

OK, so if I buy a new car and decide ten thousand miles later I don't like it, I can take it back to the dealer and just give the dealer the old one I don't like and get a new one?

 

Or, I choose to roll a bounty hunter and go mercenary, but decide at level 40 that I no longer like bounty hunter and I want to play marauder, I should be able to just change to marauder?

[MajikMyst]

It's a game. "Work" and "effort" do not apply. The only word that applies is "fun." You have fun your way and stop worrying about how others have fun. You'll be happier for it.

 

Work and effort apply to anything.. Game or not.. It is kind of stupid to say otherwise..

 

And why don't you start worrying about others.. This is an MMO after all.. It is kind of selfish to just worry about yourself..

 

And before you try to spin that statement to be used with me.. I am not the one arguing to change the rules of the game.. I am arguing to keep them the way they are.. You are the one asking for change.. You are the one that needs to be concerned with others.. How it will effect others, and it will.. Is it good or bad for the game as a whole?? You seem to ignore the fact that AC swapping would be a bad thing for the game.. For many reasons..

 

What reasons you ask?? The ones that myself and others constantly bring up that you all ignore..