ETA on Advanced Class change?

[MajikMyst]

If I am sure of anything it's that you of all people shouldn't give ANYONE this advice.

 

There is no reason to be insulted Majik. I don't like you. I don't like your posting style. I don't like your post history. I don't like your constant trolling. I REALLY don't like the fact you ignore anything that proves you wrong.

 

But that isn't the end of the world. What I think means nothing. You certainly do not need my approval or my permission to speak your mind.

 

If you change your post style (the last few posts were better) than that's great.

 

But I have to say...I'd compare my post history to yours any day of the week. You made some serious mistakes you simply can't erase.

 

1) you accused more than one person of being pro AC when they were not.

2) you directly insulted more than one member in this thread.

3) you posted quotes in which you changed words to make them mean what you wanted them to mean. When you were called on it and the proof of the real post was posted, you ignored the proof.

4) you demeaned respected members of the community, and then used very old information to back up your views instead of admitting your mistake.

 

It is unfortunate...because I am embarrassed to say you and I are on the same side. But asking me to defend the very contentions that I do not agree with was the last straw. I don't see anyone asking you to defend any contentions the pro said have made, nor is anyone accusing you of being a pro AC change member. Yet you have done exactly that to more than one member.

 

Your behavior has been deplorable. The evidence is littered all over this forum. Me, on the other hand, I have had many good conversations with the Pro AC change folks. Can you say the same?

 

You are an embarrassment to the Anti AC change movement. If you have accomplished anything it is that you have weakened our stance and legitimacy in this discussion.

 

I don't like you or Hizoka...that's it...but at least Hizoka respected my wish to stop quoting my posts. That demonstrates a certain level of maturity and control and I have to respect that. You can't seem to do that.

 

If I see an actual change in your posting behavior I MIGHT start talking to you again.

 

Until then we have nothing further to discuss.

 

What do you have against writing an accurate post?? I haven't insulted anyone... Good luck finding a quote..

 

There is nothing wrong with accusing you of being pro AC.. Get over it..

 

I never change a person's quote except to either delete a portion or just -snip- .. Again.. Good luck proving otherwise..

 

I demean respected members of the community?? Like who?? You?? You would have to be honest to be respected.. As for demeaning anyone?? Again.. Good luck proving that...

 

So I ask again. Can you write a post that is true??

 

I do think it is funny that you think it is some crime to accuse you of being pro AC.. Especially since that is what your attitude says... At least I make accusations with some validity.. You on the other hand??

 

As for a change in my behavior?? Don't count on it.. You are the one throwing a tantrum.. Oh my god someone accused me of being pro AC.. Whatever will I do?? I tried to be civil with you repaid me by acting like a jerk.. You walk around this forum like you are some gods gift to forums.. You paste the same crap over and over again.. You ignore everyone around you that bothers to even respond to you.. Which many don't because I am sure they know better.. Which I now know better.. I didn't start this.. I just called like I saw it and you freaked out.. The fact that being called pro AC bothers you enough that you would make a stink about speaks volumes.. At least we know you aren't entirely honest when you write a post..

Edited June 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[LordArtemis]

What do you have against writing an accurate post?? I haven't insulted anyone... Good luck finding a quote..

 

There is nothing wrong with accusing you of being pro AC.. Get over it..

 

I never change a person's quote except to either delete a portion or just -snip- .. Again.. Good luck proving otherwise..

 

I demean respected members of the community?? Like who?? You?? You would have to be honest to be respected.. As for demeaning anyone?? Again.. Good luck proving that...

 

So I ask again. Can you write a post that is true??

 

I do think it is funny that you think it is some crime to accuse you of being pro AC.. Especially since that is what your attitude says... At least I make accusations with some validity.. You on the other hand??

 

As for a change in my behavior?? Don't count on it.. You are the one throwing a tantrum.. Oh my god someone accused me of being pro AC.. Whatever will I do?? I tried to be civil with you repaid me by acting like a jerk.. You walk around this forum like you are some gods gift to forums.. You paste the same crap over and over again.. You ignore everyone around you that bothers to even respond to you.. Which many don't because I am sure they know better.. Which I now know better.. I didn't start this.. I just called like I saw it and you freaked out.. The fact that being called pro AC bothers you enough that you would make a stink about speaks volumes.. At least we know you aren't entirely honest when you write a post..

 

 

.....

 

You get what you give. Bad in, bad out.

 

I don't think it's a crime. I think it's a symptom of a lack of self respect. Only someone who is bound and determined to look foolish continues to post the same fallacious contentions over and over again after being proved wrong by more than one community member.

 

I'll let your inescapable post history speak for itself. You can't edit them all.

 

I'm going to unthink about this for a while. In the mean time...get those eyes checked. They keep rolling around.

Edited June 23, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

My original Anti AC change points and Jeweledleah's rebuttal.

 

First my post.

 

I'd like to post what I feel would be some detriments. That doesn't mean what I post is more or less important than your pros, not does this post invalidate yours. I would just like to lend my opinion on what I see could be some pitfalls.

 

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.

2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.

3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.

4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.

5) This will likely further demean AC choice.

6) Could cause FOTM issues.

7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.

 

There may be more, if others want to add pros and cons I can compile lists for both and add it to the post block for the proposals. Only serious, logical, non-insulting pros and cons please. I will not cater to trolls.

 

Then Jeweldleah's rebuttal.

 

fair points, here's my rebbutals.

 

1. there are always people who resist change at first. most eventually adopt. those that don't tend to balance out by people who come back/start playing because of the changes

 

2. things, including opinions change. people tend to be against shaking up status quo, because it means different and unfamiliar. but change is not necessarily a bad thing. some people vocally being against something doesn't mean its not worth considering or trying.

 

3. classes are already underrepresented. people talk about shelving their assassins/shadows due to how spikily they take damage nowadays (and as a healer, assassin tanks are my least favorite to heal - good sins can compensate, but even they cannot fix the issue of them being super squishy against physical damage). the main difference is - without change characters just get abandoned and non altoholics often stop playing all together. with AC change- they have an option. and honestly, solution would be balances AC's so that they are all roughly equal in their viability and the main difference is specifics of playstyle.

 

4. so there should be restrictions. everything has potential to be abused and exploited, so the key is - before implementing anything, test it thoroughly. its possible, that's exactly what they are doing right now, they are just not at the point where they can conclusively say yes or no yet.

 

5. possibly. unless done with certain limitations. now, this is my personal opinion, but I never felt like AC choice was significant to begin with. you just picked out playstyle, nothing more. not like light or dark decisions, which companions to bring with you or which role to play. but I have stated that I view class as tied to individual class story, not specializations within that story - this being a somewhat unique SWTOR feature. so to me at least flexibility in playstyle is more important. (I was VERY happy when they implemented field respec - the only alts of mine that don't have it are pure dps characters and even they may end up with it eventually)

 

6. could.. unless restrictions are implemented in addition to working on balancing AC's and specs to be roughly equal in general effectiveness (anything from limiting the number of times the change can be made, to how often it can be made, to raising the cost with each subsequent change)

 

7. again, could, though I'm not sure how it can get any worse than it already is. however- as a safeguard, adding a short unskippable tutorial to the change - anything from conversation with an npc (something like original conversation you have when choosing it the first time, only more involved) to a quest that needs to be completed, before change is finalized - quest that would require you to use specific abilities in a specific way (as an added bonus, that quest could be used as testing ground for someone who might be considering the change, but not entirely sure about it - provided quest comes with yes, I want to change, no I want to stay with my old AC - options).

 

there are pro's and cons to everything. IMO the key is to see which column has more stuff in it, and go from there.

 

heck one of the solutions to the problem of unique no longer available items rather than allowing them to change AC, could be giving people an opportunity to reclaim them through collections. (and I personally would pay cartel coins to unlock my black/green crystal for my entire account - in a heartbeat). that still doesn't solve the issue of not enjoying the story more than once though.

 

Does anyone else agree with Jeweldleah's contentions here?

[MajikMyst]

.....

 

I don't think it's a crime. I think it's a symptom of a lack of self respect. Only someone who is bound and determined to look foolish continues to post the same fallacious contentions over and over again after being proved wrong by more than one community member.

 

I'll let your inescapable post history speak for itself. You can't edit them all.

 

I'm going to unthink about this for a while. In the mean time...get those eyes checked. They keep rolling around.

 

There is nothing to edit and you are right.. It will speak for itself.. I have a wonderful amount of self respect.. It is lack of respect for you that is the issue.. And your posts also speaks for themselves..

 

The only question you ever answered was the orange dot one, and even that took multiple posts to get a response to..

 

All the rest you pretty much ignored.. You called one unfair or unrealistic, but refused to qualify that statement.. Again as normal for you.. This is why I said you were pro AC.. You don't want to have the discussion.. You don't want to look at someone else's views or logic.. You will sure talk about all kinds of different suggestions.. You made a list of them.. And then a half baked list of cons which really said nothing.. Like I said.. I call it like I see it..

[LordArtemis]

There is nothing to edit and you are right.. It will speak for itself.. I have a wonderful amount of self respect.. It is lack of respect for you that is the issue.. And your posts also speaks for themselves..

 

The only question you ever answered was the orange dot one, and even that took multiple posts to get a response to..

 

All the rest you pretty much ignored.. You called one unfair or unrealistic, but refused to qualify that statement.. Again as normal for you.. This is why I said you were pro AC.. You don't want to have the discussion.. You don't want to look at someone else's views or logic.. You will sure talk about all kinds of different suggestions.. You made a list of them.. And then a half baked list of cons which really said nothing.. Like I said.. I call it like I see it..

 

I don't think Ill be needing your respect today Majik.

 

Shenanigans.

Edited June 23, 2013 by LordArtemis

[MajikMyst]

Shenanigans.

 

Shenanigans Shenanigans..

 

[LordArtemis]

Shenanigans Shenanigans..

 

 

Well said

[MajikMyst]

fair points, here's my rebbutals.

 

1. there are always people who resist change at first. most eventually adopt. those that don't tend to balance out by people who come back/start playing because of the changes

 

The numbers game is a tough argument to make.. This game is about money.. Not how many people you can get to jump off the bridge.. There are tons of other examples where a lot of people doing something doesn't make it right.. This is one of those cases.. There is a lot wrong with the idea of AC swapping..

 

2. things, including opinions change. people tend to be against shaking up status quo, because it means different and unfamiliar. but change is not necessarily a bad thing. some people vocally being against something doesn't mean its not worth considering or trying.

 

This seems to be a restatement of number 1.. No change isn't a bad thing.. But some change is.. Ignoring the fact that change can be a bad thing is poor decision making.. Bioware needs to look at how this will play out on their bottom line.. Will it make them money or cost them money?? We as players should look at it that way as well..

 

3. classes are already underrepresented. people talk about shelving their assassins/shadows due to how spikily they take damage nowadays (and as a healer, assassin tanks are my least favorite to heal - good sins can compensate, but even they cannot fix the issue of them being super squishy against physical damage). the main difference is - without change characters just get abandoned and non altoholics often stop playing all together. with AC change- they have an option. and honestly, solution would be balances AC's so that they are all roughly equal in their viability and the main difference is specifics of playstyle.

 

For the most part I agree with this.. I fail to see how it is a reason for AC swapping.. The same can be accomplished by rolling another character.. Most people I am sure have alts.. I have 8 toons.. Plenty of choices if one class is given the nerf bat..

 

4. so there should be restrictions. everything has potential to be abused and exploited, so the key is - before implementing anything, test it thoroughly. its possible, that's exactly what they are doing right now, they are just not at the point where they can conclusively say yes or no yet.

 

What restrictions are you proposing?? There are already restrictions on AC swapping.. Why should that change?? I haven't seen much on the issue of why.. They have been saying a soft no for over a year now.. In fact bioware says a soft no about anything.. Chat bubbles, player housing, guild ships, you name it.. They have always reserved their right to change their mind.. Which is a soft no.. Nothing has changed.. The game says a lot though.. Nobody wants to take that into consideration..

 

5. possibly. unless done with certain limitations. now, this is my personal opinion, but I never felt like AC choice was significant to begin with. you just picked out playstyle, nothing more. not like light or dark decisions, which companions to bring with you or which role to play. but I have stated that I view class as tied to individual class story, not specializations within that story - this being a somewhat unique SWTOR feature. so to me at least flexibility in playstyle is more important. (I was VERY happy when they implemented field respec - the only alts of mine that don't have it are pure dps characters and even they may end up with it eventually)

 

No offense, but your views are largely irrelevant.. As are mine.. Bioware has stated that the AC is considered our class.. That is all you need to know.. So what you feel it is or what you feel it is tied to is not relevant.. Bioware has already stated that it considers our AC to be our class.. The game says it is a one time choice.. Your AC is permanent.. Again, nobody wants to discuss that..

 

6. could.. unless restrictions are implemented in addition to working on balancing AC's and specs to be roughly equal in general effectiveness (anything from limiting the number of times the change can be made, to how often it can be made, to raising the cost with each subsequent change)

 

How about we just deal with the reasons it should be done at all.. I really don't see the point in discussion something that most likely will never happen.. Besides.. I still haven't seen you address the why fully or take into consideration the game and what it says..

 

7. again, could, though I'm not sure how it can get any worse than it already is. however- as a safeguard, adding a short unskippable tutorial to the change - anything from conversation with an npc (something like original conversation you have when choosing it the first time, only more involved) to a quest that needs to be completed, before change is finalized - quest that would require you to use specific abilities in a specific way (as an added bonus, that quest could be used as testing ground for someone who might be considering the change, but not entirely sure about it - provided quest comes with yes, I want to change, no I want to stay with my old AC - options).

 

What can get worse?? The discussion?? Well.. You are going into areas about how hard the programming is going to be.. I doubt there is anyone that has enough information to truly speak on that other than Bioware.. I would guess that it wouldn't be easy.. I don't know how it would impact quest triggers and other things.. What about rep?? Or the Codex?? All the countless little things that go into our character?? What about gear and bank contents?? Would all that just stay the same?? What about having to carry both sets of gear around?? How many sets of gear would people have?? 2 PVE sets and 2 PVP sets?? That is a lot of stuff to be lugging around.. Again.. I don't know on that issue..

 

there are pro's and cons to everything. IMO the key is to see which column has more stuff in it, and go from there.

 

heck one of the solutions to the problem of unique no longer available items rather than allowing them to change AC, could be giving people an opportunity to reclaim them through collections. (and I personally would pay cartel coins to unlock my black/green crystal for my entire account - in a heartbeat). that still doesn't solve the issue of not enjoying the story more than once though.

 

You didn't address a few points.. Like what the game says.. The money issue with Bioware.. Making so people don't have to level another character can be viewed as a loss of content..

 

Should Bioware even do it.. If they allowed it once, would people understand they couldn't to it again?? What if they could do it twice?? When do people learn what permanent means??

 

The entire point of a class is to make our characters different.. Is there a point to even having a class if we can change our class at will??

 

Bioware purposely designed the game so that tanks and healers would not be on the same class.. No tank can respec to heals and visa versa.. AC swapping would nullify that restriction that Bioware wanted.. They didn't want 1 class to both tank and heal.. AC swapping allows that.. AC swapping essentially makes our current classes just specs.. As you see them.. Which means this game by your standards has only 8 classes.. If you ask Bioware, they will say 16 classes.. Is cutting the number of classes in half a good idea??

 

The biggest issue that I see being ignored in many ways is the most important.. Simply.. Why?? Why should AC swapping be allowed?? The hard part of all this is that anything that AC swapping can do, can also be accomplished by rolling another character and leveling the other AC.. So does it just become an issue of lazy?? A lot of people have made the effort and leveled both AC's.. I think that would upset some folks if they allowed AC swapping..

 

In many ways this sounds like the legacy datacrons issue.. Some people are to lazy to go collect them all for each character so they want them legacy.. Well.. This is an MMO.. There needs to be things that are left out for the people that are willing to put out the effort.. If you want all the datacrons, then go get them.. If you want to play both AC's then level another character.. You talk about restrictions.. How about restrictions that force people to actually play the game??

Edited June 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Jeweledleah]

@ Magyk. you continue to selectively ignore many of the points I made, links I provided, etc, but that's ok, I'm not really trying to convince you here anyways. you are not the one making decisions here.

 

however, out of sheer curiosity, and because the same website that you linked to was one of the websites I actually looked up when doing my sorc search before deciding on linking official forums - I went back to do a tinny bit of more reading. because you see, I like to do my homework, instead of latching on to a single statement that sorta kinda fits what I want to believe, even if it doesn't exactly state it, but hey, close enough.

 

aside from the fact that you linked tank thread not dps (and according to our guild tanks, accuracy is not as important for tanks since high threat abilities don't miss), and the fact that you linked to un updated for over a year original post, rather then later pages in a discussion that actually deal with current state of the game

 

however http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-826-page-38.html

this is sorc/sage dps discussion. on the same forum you linked. scroll down a bit, when they start parsing 2.0 on PTS, and if you'd like - read for a few pages, especially parts when they start talking about stats and gear available on live.

 

and you will see that for dps, including sorc dps? accuracy is about as important as power/willpower, in fact - its number one priority, until you come close to cap (aka 110% on special attacks) within about .5%

 

if you continue to insist that I'm wrong despite ALL the evidence (and I have a feeling, you might), then what can I say...

 

in the end, I'm providing this information more for the benefit of others who might listen to your faulty information if its not corrected, and sabotage their own effectiveness, then trying to convince someone who refuses to listen to evidence, reason and logic.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[MajikMyst]

@ Magyk. you continue to selectively ignore many of the points I made, links I provided, etc, but that's ok, I'm not really trying to convince you here anyways. you are not the one making decisions here.

 

however, out of sheer curiosity, and because the same website that you linked to was one of the websites I actually looked up when doing my sorc search before deciding on linking official forums - I went back to do a tinny bit of more reading. because you see, I like to do my homework, instead of latching on to a single statement that sorta kinda fits what I want to believe, even if it doesn't exactly state it, but hey, close enough.

 

aside from the fact that you linked tank thread not dps (and according to our guild tanks, accuracy is not as important for tanks since high threat abilities don't miss), and the fact that you linked to un updated for over a year original post, rather then later pages in a discussion that actually deal with current state of the game

 

however http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-826-page-38.html

this is sorc/sage dps discussion. on the same forum you linked. scroll down a bit, when they start parsing 2.0 on PTS, and if you'd like - read for a few pages, especially parts when they start talking about stats and gear available on live.

 

and you will see that for dps, including sorc dps? accuracy is about as important as power/willpower, in fact - its number one priority, until you come close to cap (aka 110% on special attacks) within about .5%

 

if you continue to insist that I'm wrong despite ALL the evidence (and I have a feeling, you might), then what can I say...

 

in the end, I'm providing this information more for the benefit of others who might listen to your faulty information if its not corrected, and sabotage their own effectiveness, then trying to convince someone who refuses to listen to evidence, reason and logic.

 

So did you even read the post above or just decide to be a jerk?? Did you see the post where I said Noxxic said that DPS sages needed accuracy?? Dude.. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself..

 

I am treating you with civility and you aren't even reading my posts.. There is no reason for you to be a jerk... Be hey.. Point taken.. You don't want to debate the issue.. Even though I did address you post point by point.. So instead of lying about me you were actually talking about yourself right?? Just going by the evidence here.. It is pretty stupid to accuse someone of ignoring you when the post right before your own responds to you point by point..

 

You realty need to work on your reading skills.. As for logic?? Hmmmmm.. You should work on that too..

Edited June 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Jeweledleah]

So did you even read the post above or just decide to be a jerk?? Did you see the post where I said Noxxis said that DPS sages needed accuracy?? Dude.. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself..

 

Dude... I am treating you with civility and you aren't even reading my post.. There is no reason for you to be a jerk... Be hey.. Point taken.. You don't want to debate the issue.. Even though I did address you post point by point.. So instead of lying about me you were actually talking about yourself right?? Just going by the evidence here.. It is pretty stupid to accuse someone of ignoring you when the post before responds to you point by point..

 

As for logic?? Hmmmmm.. You should work on that..

I just scrolled back and i saw no such post. only your continued insistence that I was wrong.

 

and btw noxxic? is good as a starting point, but their specifics are flawed, and sometimes downright wrong. something I found out, when doing research (although, at least they seem to have removed some of the more odd of their recommendations... like the one when they used to list threat dump as survivability cooldown for tanks)

 

and your so called rebuttals to my points were merely rehashes of the same tired, sometimes even unrelated opinions that you keep trying to pass on as facts. including the accusations of laziness and all that jazz.

 

you are a sore loser. that's ok. most people have trouble admitting when they were wrong, you are not a special snowflake in that.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[MajikMyst]

I just scrolled back and i saw no such post. only your continued insistence that I was wrong..

 

The OP claims that mobs have a chance to miss on force abilities?? Why does everywhere else say the exact opposite??

 

Why is it not reflected in the tool tip??

 

Your base force accuracy is already 100%..

 

Other than your link, nobody else has said that chance to hit on with force as decreased.. So I will trust other websites.. You think and believe what you want..

 

Here is a forum from Noxxic..

 

http://www.noxxic.com/t/accuracy-with-shadow-tank-builds

 

Again says no accuracy is needed for shadow tanks as of 2.2..

 

http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/jedi-consular/shadow/kinetic-combat/item-modification

 

Here is the builder with BiS list.. Again no accuracy..

 

I looked at all the specs for a Sage and a shadow.. Some specs they are saying you want accuracy.. But I don't know why?? One is for a Telekinetics spec'ed sage.. That is a ranged dps force only spec.. Yet for a shadow tank, which is at least partially mele it says no accuracy.. I am sticking with the no accuracy thing.. At least until it can be explained why..

 

Like I said.. Work on your reading skills.. As I am proving you wrong yet again..

Edited June 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Jeweledleah]

Like I said.. Work on your reading skills.. As I am proving you wrong yet again..

 

all you are proving is that you are at least capable of going back a few pages, editing a post, after i made mine and then claiming that i'm the one lacking reading comprehension. (not to mention I wasn't talking about tanks needing accuracy, I was talking about dps, and yet you keep bringing up tanks)

 

good job. you get a "you tried" gold star

 

but as amusing as it is, watching you continuously make a fool of yourself, I really do have better things to do with my time.

 

bye dearie

Edited June 23, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[MajikMyst]

I just scrolled back and i saw no such post. only your continued insistence that I was wrong.

 

and btw noxxic? is good as a starting point, but their specifics are flawed, and sometimes downright wrong. something I found out, when doing research (although, at least they seem to have removed some of the more odd of their recommendations... like the one when they used to list threat dump as survivability cooldown for tanks)

 

and your so called rebuttals to my points were merely rehashes of the same tired, sometimes even unrelated opinions that you keep trying to pass on as facts. including the accusations of laziness and all that jazz.

 

you are a sore loser. that's ok. most people have trouble admitting when they were wrong, you are not a special snowflake in that.

 

I am not a sore anything.. I also didn't lose.. You accused me of ignoring you and totally spaced my large post to you addressing your every point.. Then you had trouble finding the post that I pasted above, which was on the same page as the one you found.. So either you reading is extremely poor or you have extreme narrow vision and only see what you want..

 

Even now.. I have done nothing to you and you are posting to me with hostility.. What does that say?? You want a sore loser?? Go look in the mirror.. Again.. Calling it how it is..

[MajikMyst]

all you are proving is that you are at least capable of going back a few pages, editing a post, after i made mine and then claiming that i'm the one lacking reading comprehension. (not to mention I wasn't talking about tanks needing accuracy, I was talking about dps, and yet you keep bringing up tanks)

 

good job. you get a "you tried" gold star

 

but as amusing as it is, watching you continuously make a fool of yourself, I really do have better things to do with my time.

 

bye dearie

 

So I prove you wrong and you are reduced to a post like this?? Typical.. Just typical.. You know reading would really help you in this situation.. Just saying.. Some free advice there..

 

I am sorry you aren't capable of reading my posts.. I really didn't edit that post.. It was all written when I did the research.. Kind of like how the post reads.. Again if you could read, you would have seen that.. I am sorry you can't see really long posts that I took a lit of time in writing to address you point by point.. Did you address my points made in the post I wrote?? As of yet?? No.. So maybe I should throw the tantrum about you not responding to me?? I'll pass.. At this point, I am doubtful you will even read and understand this post..

 

As for better things to do with your time?? I would consider showing people the same respect they show you.. I did respond to you, and I did do the research, and I did say that dps spec's are said to need accuracy... All you are doing is ranting about what you didn't read or didn't see.. Not to mention making yourself look foolish in the mean time..

Edited June 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Xeperi]

You have seen me say there is no reason to allow AC swapping.. Well.. There isn't..

 

I think a good enough reason is that people want to. Though I do not want to see it happen in a way that totally unbalances the game, which is why to me, a compromise with penalties is in order.

 

I can see unlocking the ability to do an advanced class switch at level 55 or so. With a penalty. Putting them back to 10 might be a bit severe- maybe a 5 level penalty instead with a minimum level of 20. And a three month cooldown.

 

My mind is changing on this because as long as something doesn't disrupt game mechanics or make it "less hard", I see no reason to block something that a lot of people want to do.

 

I would rather see a brand new set of classes beyond advanced, that start at level 55+, and I would rather see more build diversity overall.

[LordArtemis]

all you are proving is that you are at least capable of going back a few pages, editing a post, after i made mine and then claiming that i'm the one lacking reading comprehension. (not to mention I wasn't talking about tanks needing accuracy, I was talking about dps, and yet you keep bringing up tanks)

 

good job. you get a "you tried" gold star

 

but as amusing as it is, watching you continuously make a fool of yourself, I really do have better things to do with my time.

 

bye dearie

 

I read it too and saw that none existed. Everything below the "Other than your link, nobody else has said that chance to hit on with force as decreased.. So I will trust other websites.. You think and believe what you want.. " comment did not exist.

 

Like I said earlier, post history stands in evidence. He can't edit every post.

 

This is a person that gets proved wrong constantly and either ignores that proof or simply changes the original post when he realizes he is wrong so he can claim he was not or never said that.......even if you quoted the original quote.

 

Now, we all go back and edit, change posts after we have posted them. Sometimes we have more to say, other times it's to make corrections to the post. But he does that specifically to be dishonest.

 

Some folks are incapable of learning how to properly behave in society. This is one of those individuals.

[Aries_cz]

Majyk, Sages need accuracy, at least after 2.0 and on levels 51+. All Elite and higher mobs level 51+ have 10% chance to resist any attack. So, to be sure that your attacks punch through it every time, you must have 110% on your Force attacks.

This has been documented by many theorycrafters based on parses and extensive testing, like here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=627405

[TridusSWTOR]

So then why don't sages need accuracy?? For that matter, Shadows which are mele also don't need accuracy.. Shadows are Assassins.. Which also don't need accuracy..

 

Perhaps you should look up dear??

 

Just an FYI.. I have a dedicated level 55 Shadow tank.. One of the biggest complaints that tanks of our class have in the gear is that a lot of it has accuracy that we don't need, and a lot of it has def, which we don't need much of.. We need a lot of shield and absorb.. Which is sadly absent from our gear.. I have had to use augments to get those stats..

 

 

 

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-950.html#IIa

 

Now.. Both Shadow and Assassins have some mele skills.. Some are pretty nice.. Having said that, I have only a little accuracy that has come on my gear.. Some of it I got rid of.. But I have never missed on a boss.. I have tanked SaV.. Again never missed.. I will agree that a little accuracy may not be a bad idea.. But I will gladly trade it for a tank stat.. I currently have about 2% or less on accuracy..

 

Shadow DPS and Sage DPS need accuracy now, how can you not know this?

 

Learn to accept certain truths from posters. More often than not, they can educate you more than you can provide anything meaningful to them.

 

You are a troll.

[TridusSWTOR]

Thanks for that post.. I just wanted to know which one of is civil.. Now I know.. Please though.. Keep being a jerk and fist pounding.. You are good at it.. As for trolling?? Well.. I am the one responding to people and not being a jerk.. You on the other hand.. Well.. Nevermind.. You probably wouldn't understand anyways..

 

As for what I expect?? I expect you to act like an adult and not spoiled child.. I accused you of being bias and pro AC because the way you post and how rude you are to those that are against it says otherwise.. If you were truly neutral on this issue then you would be embracing both sides of this issue.. But you are not.. You are barely interested in the arguments against.. You never respond to them.. You don't even try to see the other side of the issue.. And now you are just resorting to being rude and obnoxious..

 

If you don't want to talk to me, that is fine.. But do us all a favor will you?? Grow up..

 

Take your own advice. Also stop stealing people's words, go make up your own.

 

Also you haven't done the anti-AC side any favors at ALL. At least lord Art actually provided a list of possible solutions we could pick from. Where is your contribution?

[TridusSWTOR]

So did you even read the post above or just decide to be a jerk?? Did you see the post where I said Noxxic said that DPS sages needed accuracy?? Dude.. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself..

 

I am treating you with civility and you aren't even reading my posts.. There is no reason for you to be a jerk... Be hey.. Point taken.. You don't want to debate the issue.. Even though I did address you post point by point.. So instead of lying about me you were actually talking about yourself right?? Just going by the evidence here.. It is pretty stupid to accuse someone of ignoring you when the post right before your own responds to you point by point..

 

You realty need to work on your reading skills.. As for logic?? Hmmmmm.. You should work on that too.. :)

 

Bingo, you just insulted a community member. You have been debunked.

 

News flash, DPS need accuracy. Get used to it. You have been debunked.

 

I admit I only enjoy responding to your post because they are full of WRONG in all aspects.

 

After reading jewel and lordA talk, I hope they don't make AC change like field respec. A person should either get a long CD on it and walk to the fleet in order to change. Plus a hefy price tag on top of that. I do think it should be allowed 10-55 though.

[Ratajack]

but switching talent trees does. and yet, we can already do that.

 

also... you can buy a chiss unlock. used to be credits only. now its credits or cartel coins. so... you don't have to level up a chiss, to roll a chiss jedi.

 

pay to win!

 

Switching talent trees or c hanging spec is a far cry from allowing class changes.

[Ratajack]

So an AC change for a sage would unlock a jedi knight?

 

Oh that's totally what people were asking.

 

Oh wait...it wasn't.

 

Learn the difference.

 

Shadow and sage are two different classes. Leveling a shadow to max level does NOT entitle you to play that character as a sage. You leveled as a shadow, not a sage.

[Ratajack]

For the same reason leveling a sage healer lets you switch to playing a sage dps? I'm sure you would oppose that too if you could.

 

Well, that would make you wrong about that, too. I am not against changing specs.

 

Does leveling a sage as either heals or DPS allow you to tank? NO, you'd have to roll an assassin to be able to tank if you chose the inquisitor story.

[Ratajack]

and yet, that's exactly what you all are doing? "no, its a completely separate class!"

 

at least we provide logical argument why its more of a specialization then a class.

 

As we have provided logical arguments and dev statements as to why they are different classes.