ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Asturias]

Do you love how this makes you look as well?

I could careless what you think but I like to entertain stupid because I know as well as you know that the Link wasn't there when you first wrote it and I did read it on the Dulfy Website after your edited.

 

So let me ask you this question why is this not a topic on TORWARS or Darthhater or in the Q and A columns. Its bogus news from a independent source which gives you SOOOOOOO MUCH CREDIT in your argument, lol.

 

Get the **** out here

Edited June 20, 2013 by Asturias

[LordArtemis]

I could careless because I know as well as you know that the Link wasn't there when you first wrote it and I did read it on the Dulfy Website.

 

So let me ask you this question why is this not a topic on TORWARS or Darthhater or in the Q and A columns. Its bogus news from a independent source which gives you SOOOOOOO MUCH CREDIT in your argument, lol.

 

 

Show the quote from BioWARE or your argument is forfeit and your Trolling for attention.

Well if you posted it 9 times than you should know were to find the link fast, so I doubt it you even posted and your blowing smoke.

Exactly because there is no link nor discussion about it except Q and A from the public which not once has any Dev stated they would consider this.

I call it like it is because you sure have the time to respond to my post and make pointless claims, amirite

Where is the Link Jack ***, anyone can write up crap like this and claim its the real deal and if it didn't come from Q and A Talks its not even a food for thought in there plans for the near future.

 

Link It which is a definition term to prove your case and as for Dulfy she is a fan website like many other gaming sites that makes and proclaims, cuts and edit **** to seem like its news and stir up ****.

 

Try again

 

Your certainly welcome to claim it's false if you like, or doesn't mean what it says...it's a weak thin contention at best, but that doesn't wash away the absolute FACT that you are dead wrong and can't admit it.

 

And now plenty of evidence exists of that fact for all to see. You just can't escape it this time no matter now you try to wriggle out of it. Your posts were obviously put up without taking even a moment to find out if you might be wrong about your contentions......

 

....now, you could always try to claim this never happened...go back and erase your posts.

 

It's ok. I have a record. I'm more than happy to share it any time, any where.

 

...of course you could always man up and admit you were wrong.

Edited June 20, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Asturias]

Your certainly welcome to claim it's false if you like, or doesn't mean what it says...it's a weak thin contention at best, but that doesn't wash away the absolute FACT that you are dead wrong and can't admit it.

 

And now plenty of evidence exists of that fact for all to see. You just can't escape it this time no matter now you try to wriggle out of it. Your posts were obviously put up without taking even a moment to find out if you might be wrong about your contentions......

 

....now, you could always try to claim this never happened...go back and erase your posts.

 

It's ok. I have a record. I'm more than happy to share it any time, any where.

 

...of course you could always man up and admit you were wrong.

What am I dead wrong about ??? I stated you don't have facts and you still don't have facts other than some quote from a independent source website which is not an official affiliate news source from the Devs nor is it fact about changes to come. Edited June 20, 2013 by Asturias

[LordArtemis]

I could careless what you think but I like to entertain stupid because I know as well as you know that the Link wasn't there when you first wrote it and I did read it on the Dulfy Website after your edited.

 

So let me ask you this question why is this not a topic on TORWARS or Darthhater or in the Q and A columns. Its bogus news from a independent source which gives you SOOOOOOO MUCH CREDIT in your argument, lol.

 

Get the **** out here

 

Ok. I think your claiming some type of dishonesty on my part in some weird way and ignoring your silly mistakes.

 

Your also dismissing the interview as a fake, your right as well, to somehow direct attention away from your obvious errors.

 

And that's fine. It's there for all to see. You can try and erase it, but you can't make it disappear.

 

Good luck.

Edited June 20, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

You know what? I'm not going to continue this. Instead I'm going to extend the olive branch. After looking at your post history you are obviously not a troll. A few of your posts have even been helpful.

 

So, I will delete what I have and let this rest.

 

You have indicated you feel the interview is invalid and this is your right. You simply let your passions get the best of you with this exchange. It happens. I expect your not proud of it, no need to own up. We all make mistakes.

 

Next time do some checking before you throw around accusations. Otherwise you may end up looking silly.

 

I will leave it at that.

Edited June 20, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Asturias]

One more to add to the list. Keep it up.

 

Please. Ask what your dead wrong about again. Just change up the words a bit so I can post a new fresh embarrasing quote from you.

 

I'd like a nice long quote list if you don't mind. This is the wonderful list I have so far....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to have some fun with this at your expense tomorrow. I hope you don't mind.

Hahahhahahahaha go ahead if it makes you feel better but anyone with any inclination of intelligence knows that independent news sources are not official talks and should never be quoted as facts. I have stated this to you over and over, if it hasn't came from the Q and A talks which is held here on the official website its bogus news and not in the near future plans.

[Asturias]

You know what? I'm not going to continue this. Instead I'm going to extend the olive branch. After looking at your post history you are obviously not a troll. A few of your posts have even been helpful.

 

So, I will delete what I have and let this rest.

 

You have indicated you feel the interview is invalid and this is your right. You simply let your passions get the best of you with this exchange. It happens. I expect your not proud of it, no need to own up. We all make mistakes.

 

Next time do some checking before you throw around accusations. Otherwise you may end up looking silly.

 

I will leave it at that.

Roger that and good luck to you =)

[LordArtemis]

Roger that and good luck to you =)

 

To you to. Don't let this little fracas between us stop you from posting your opinion in this thread. All voices need to be heard.

[Asturias]

To you to. Don't let this little fracas between us stop you from posting your opinion in this thread. All voices need to be heard.

 

It never does and sometime forum wars can be fun

[LordArtemis]

It never does and sometime forum wars can be fun

 

It was entertaining I don't get to engage in good wholesome forum PVP that often. I don't like doing it with trolls, but your post history changed my mind....you have a decent one. You obviously feel pretty passionately about this though.

 

I don't know if you read my post history in this thread, but I'm not in the "for AC change" column. The best option, IMO, is to leave it as it is. I even made some suggestions to make the choice more meaningful that Bioware could implement to make this whole argument moot.

 

If I had to choose one option, I would choose option 1 in the options list I posted a few pages back. I have all viewpoints there that I am aware of, including no restrictions and no change allowed. Take a peek.

[LordArtemis]

Here it is

 

 

Option 1 - This is the one I am currently willing to begrudgingly support

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 3

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 4

 

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 7 - This is the one that would be my preference, though I'm reasonably open to option 1

 

No AC change allowed.

 

I felt it was only fair to add in the "do not allow AC changes ever" if I am going to include the "allow AC change with no restrictions".

 

If I have missed anyone else's proposal or wish please let me know so I can correct or add it. I would also like to list the players that support the particular options listed under the option if that's ok with you guys.

 

That way we can clearly see who supports what. It's up to all of you if you want me to add you that way.

Edited June 20, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

One last post and then I have to call it a night...my view on what they could do to make the AC choice more meaningful and pretty much put this whole argument to bed, so to speak.

 

1) Come out and publicly state, in no uncertain terms, that an AC IS A CLASS. Period. Leave no room for doubt.

 

2) Remove all base class abilities when you choose your AC, the ability to wear base class armor, etc. Provide AC abilities and armor from that point forward. The only exception would be adaptive gear.

 

To be clear, that means your base class goes poof...not more training in the base class, all base class abilities are gone. Now the only training you receive is in the advanced class you chose.

 

Edit: Just delete the base class in your abilities panel and move all abilities into the AC column instead. Put all abilities in the trainer under your AC. No more abilities listed to train under your base class.

 

3) Make sure all listings, all references, everything (except perhaps class story, nothing can be done about that now) is changed to refer to you by your NEW CLASS....the AC you chose.

 

4) Work on and release, some time in the future, an short AC quest line that brings real meaning to the role you chose. Perhaps a bit of VO work where they directly call you by your new class name.

[Aries_cz]

LordArtemis, removing basic class is downright stupid.

If I use real military as an example, all soldiers are still soldiers, they still have the same basic training, and they still train those basic skills to be better at them, or just to keep their skills from deteriorating.

Now, a real life soldier can choose a specialization he want to focus on (in our case, AC). For example, he can apply to be a sniper, gaining access to some specialized training. But he still remain a soldier, with all he learned in basic training, and he hones those skills along with sniper skills. And people still refer to him a a soldier, or by his rank.

 

Now, the game refers to you in all stats as your advanced class (everywhere except PvP scoreboard, something for BW to consider changing). Guild window - advanced class. Character selection screen - advanced class. Friend list - advanced class. Class icon - advanced class. Class shown on selecting - advanced class.

The only thing that does not differentiate your specialization is the storyline (see above, you are still a soldier)

[Truga]

Have any of you people played RO before? In that game, after you finish your first class levels (50 levels), you get to choose a second class: http://wiki.lumina-ro.com/images/0/08/Job_tree_girl.gif

 

You keep all the skills/passives you invested in during leveling your first class. The second class unlocks new skills and passive abilities. For example, both the monk and the priest start as acolytes, just like commando and vanguard start as a trooper. But while a monk is a melee fighter, the priest is, for the most part, a long range caster/healer class. The stats you should invest in and gameplay are completely different (unless you're making a melee priest).

 

So, the only difference we get is that we change classes after only 10 levels, rather than 50. But in that game I never saw any requests for people to be able to change from monk to priest (and getting to level 99 took months of grind).

 

Why is this game so much different that completely different classes should be inter-changeable. Sage/Sorcerer and Shadow/Assassin have literally nothing in common. Sage is a long range DPS caster/healer, Assassin is a stealth melee DPS/tank. They are, for all intents and purposes different classes, though they do both inherit a couple skills from their prerequisite class, the Consular/Inquisitor, and have the same signature armour. Commando/Vanguard are very in this too. Like someone said, "AC are an arbitrary distinction". Well, so are base classes. The only difference between a sage and a commando is that the sage gets their big aoe later on, and they have a larger resource pool that regenerates slower. How is that not an arbitrary distinction?

 

 

As I said, I hope this stays permanent, and I hope we get more branches later on. Lineage 2 had an awesome class tree, where human fighters were split into 6 classes by level 40 (1 rogue, 1 archer, 1 polearm aoe warrior, 1 single target dps duelist, 1 tank type, 1 warrior with pets), each having their own advantages and weaknesses. And that's just the human race, each race had their own classes effectively emulating our skill trees. The amount of variety you had was almost as insane as in RO, even though L2 has no stat builds/skill trees.

 

Since SWTOR doesn't let you allocate stats and lets you simply learn almost all of your active skills at the trainer for a small fee, I believe having more branches later on, similar to L2, and not be able to swap between them freely would add to the variety in this game (because most people only have a single "main") by having more differently specialized classes. And since we have (unlike L2) 3 distinct trees inside a class, we really don't need more than one other branch (for a total of 16 classes and 48 different playstyles).

 

In my opinion, variety is the best thing an MMO can have. People who only play one character regularly won't feel like they already have 20 other people that are doing exactly the same thing in their guild, and people who play multiple characters get more decisions on how to play the classes they actually like (I find snipers/gunslingers boring, but I would play two different kinds of sawbones medics), but don't have the play the exact same class twice because they want a commando and a merc.

 

For example, commandos at level 40 choose a second AC between an aoe specialized and a single target specialized commando. Grenadiers and machinegunners? One of them gets more aoe dps, more aoe heals, more aoe buffs. The other gets more single target DPS abilities, better full auto, the ability to heal a single target faster, single target buffs. But they both retain their basic abilities they had as a commando+trooper. The gameplay difference between the two would be miles apart, while they still had similar skills for the most part.

[Xeperi]

My apologies, I should have chosen my words more carefully and with more respect.

 

If they allow AC changes, you still wont be able to switch from tank to healer with any AC your in, you would have to switch to the other AC. The roles would all still be the same, you just have more freedom in your whole base class.

 

A Sith Inquisitor switching from Assassin to Sorc effectively causes the same character to switch roles from tank to healer.

 

Thanks for the touch of class.

[Aries_cz]

Have any of you people played RO before? In that game, after you finish your first class levels (50 levels), you get to choose a second class: http://wiki.lumina-ro.com/images/0/08/Job_tree_girl.gif

/snip

 

I think it is conceivable we will get "Advanced Advanced Class" in the future with further level cap increases, or some "Heroic" classes, but that is looking to far ahead.

 

Btw, love your boot.ini signature

Edited June 20, 2013 by Aries_cz

[Doodle]

I hope they NEVER add an advanced class changer

[Savej]

Last time I played it, Wow has three classes that can switch between all three "roles" (tank, healer, dps) and it has dual spec (so some people can flip between healer and tank at will but they do have to switch gear in many cases) and some of those specs look and behave completely differently from the other specs (druid melee/stealth dps or druid ranged nuker or druid tank or druid heals?). I know, I know, Wow is a dead game as are most of the other MMOs that have allowed similar respecs, no one plays it/them anymore (wow's down to ~16x as many subs as this one has), etc., but those respecs have been available in Wow for many many years and it does show us that many of the fears that some people here have about the game breaking or even significantly changing for the worse with AC switching are just idiotic.

[Truga]

Last time I played it, Wow has three classes that can switch between all three "roles" (tank, healer, dps)

 

And SWTOR doesn't have such classes at the moment. When we get new classes, I'm sure some of them will be able to. But you still won't be able to switch AC, because Advanced Class is a class. It's right there, in the name. Resetting skill points is in no way even similar to changing classes.

[MajikMyst]

And SWTOR doesn't have such classes at the moment. When we get new classes, I'm sure some of them will be able to. But you still won't be able to switch AC, because Advanced Class is a class. It's right there, in the name. Resetting skill points is in no way even similar to changing classes.

 

Actually they won't.. Bioware in the beta specifically said they didn't want a single class to be able to perform all 3 roles.. Making a class that can will undermine the classes that can't.. Especially the classes that are dps only..

[MajikMyst]

Last time I played it, Wow has three classes that can switch between all three "roles" (tank, healer, dps) and it has dual spec (so some people can flip between healer and tank at will but they do have to switch gear in many cases) and some of those specs look and behave completely differently from the other specs (druid melee/stealth dps or druid ranged nuker or druid tank or druid heals?). I know, I know, Wow is a dead game as are most of the other MMOs that have allowed similar respecs, no one plays it/them anymore (wow's down to ~16x as many subs as this one has), etc., but those respecs have been available in Wow for many many years and it does show us that many of the fears that some people here have about the game breaking or even significantly changing for the worse with AC switching are just idiotic.

 

As of MOP, wow does not have dual spec in the traditional sense.. WOW no longer has talent trees in the traditional sense..

[Kilora]

Actually they won't.. Bioware in the beta specifically said they didn't want a single class to be able to perform all 3 roles.. Making a class that can will undermine the classes that can't.. Especially the classes that are dps only..

 

 

I also highly doubt we will get new classes -- although they *are* looking at alternate ways to add them in.

 

They've said they will not add in another 1-50 class story, because it is "very, very expensive" and not really worth the cost.

[MajikMyst]

Have any of you people played RO before? In that game, after you finish your first class levels (50 levels), you get to choose a second class: http://wiki.lumina-ro.com/images/0/08/Job_tree_girl.gif

 

You keep all the skills/passives you invested in during leveling your first class. The second class unlocks new skills and passive abilities. For example, both the monk and the priest start as acolytes, just like commando and vanguard start as a trooper. But while a monk is a melee fighter, the priest is, for the most part, a long range caster/healer class. The stats you should invest in and gameplay are completely different (unless you're making a melee priest).

 

So, the only difference we get is that we change classes after only 10 levels, rather than 50. But in that game I never saw any requests for people to be able to change from monk to priest (and getting to level 99 took months of grind).

 

Why is this game so much different that completely different classes should be inter-changeable. Sage/Sorcerer and Shadow/Assassin have literally nothing in common. Sage is a long range DPS caster/healer, Assassin is a stealth melee DPS/tank. They are, for all intents and purposes different classes, though they do both inherit a couple skills from their prerequisite class, the Consular/Inquisitor, and have the same signature armour. Commando/Vanguard are very in this too. Like someone said, "AC are an arbitrary distinction". Well, so are base classes. The only difference between a sage and a commando is that the sage gets their big aoe later on, and they have a larger resource pool that regenerates slower. How is that not an arbitrary distinction?

 

 

As I said, I hope this stays permanent, and I hope we get more branches later on. Lineage 2 had an awesome class tree, where human fighters were split into 6 classes by level 40 (1 rogue, 1 archer, 1 polearm aoe warrior, 1 single target dps duelist, 1 tank type, 1 warrior with pets), each having their own advantages and weaknesses. And that's just the human race, each race had their own classes effectively emulating our skill trees. The amount of variety you had was almost as insane as in RO, even though L2 has no stat builds/skill trees.

 

Since SWTOR doesn't let you allocate stats and lets you simply learn almost all of your active skills at the trainer for a small fee, I believe having more branches later on, similar to L2, and not be able to swap between them freely would add to the variety in this game (because most people only have a single "main") by having more differently specialized classes. And since we have (unlike L2) 3 distinct trees inside a class, we really don't need more than one other branch (for a total of 16 classes and 48 different playstyles).

 

In my opinion, variety is the best thing an MMO can have. People who only play one character regularly won't feel like they already have 20 other people that are doing exactly the same thing in their guild, and people who play multiple characters get more decisions on how to play the classes they actually like (I find snipers/gunslingers boring, but I would play two different kinds of sawbones medics), but don't have the play the exact same class twice because they want a commando and a merc.

 

For example, commandos at level 40 choose a second AC between an aoe specialized and a single target specialized commando. Grenadiers and machinegunners? One of them gets more aoe dps, more aoe heals, more aoe buffs. The other gets more single target DPS abilities, better full auto, the ability to heal a single target faster, single target buffs. But they both retain their basic abilities they had as a commando+trooper. The gameplay difference between the two would be miles apart, while they still had similar skills for the most part.

 

^^^

 

I would like to know this as well.. Why in this game do people think it is ok to change classes.. People should just live with the choices they make and be done with it.. There is no need to change classes..

[branmakmuffin]

Those stating that ACs are completely different classes are conveniently ignoring the fact that AC pairs share an entire set of base class skills, use the same main stat pair (END+something else) and share one of the three roles.

 

It's a lot easier to make an argument when you ignore inconvenient facts.

[MajikMyst]

I also highly doubt we will get new classes -- although they *are* looking at alternate ways to add them in.

 

They've said they will not add in another 1-50 class story, because it is "very, very expensive" and not really worth the cost.

 

^^

 

Yes it makes getting a new class in this game very unlikely.. The whole story thing does kind of lock them into the position of not being able to add new classes..