ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Hizoka]

They are NOT fundamentally different. They share more in common with one another than they have differences. The Dev's have said a lot of stuff that isn't true and doesn't make sense so trotting out the old "the dev's said" isn't really a good argument.

 

I have a Commando and a Powertech. The gearing is nearly identical, the differences in abilities (aside from naming) are almost non-existent as anyone who has played both can attest. There are many more abilities in common than different. There is little difference in style of play between the two.

 

Let's not forget that both share a tree. For Troopers, Assault Specialist is the same for both Vanguard and Commando.

 

AC change wouldn't give anyone anything "for free". They have already leveled up that class, they are only getting access to two more spec's. It has nothing to do with "earned". To be quite honest, AC's could be removed from the game entirely and each class given access to 5 spec trees and there would be absolutely no detrimental effect to the game whatsoever. People interested in the 8 different class story lines would still level up 8 characters to experience it, so replay would still be intact.

 

Bioware is the one who said "fundamentally different" so i guess you know their game better then them... Are you really so entitled you think because you are too blind to see them as different you know more about the game then the people ho built it???

 

Sorry but different classes are different you are asking for a free max level toon you have never played. That is Pay to win plain and simple you just lack the ability to comprehend that.

[LordArtemis]

The devs have stated that the different AC's are fundamentally DIFFERENT CLASSES, so unless you are going to tell me that you know better than the devs, changing AC's is CHANGING CLASSES, not something as simple as a spec change.

 

Last time I checked, vanguard and commando were two separate and distinct styles of play. Did you level that character as a vanguard? if so, then you did not earn the right to play that character as a commando, therefore allowing you to switch classes would be giving you that commando for FREE, or without having earned it.

 

You seem to be stuck on this as I have indicated.

 

They have not stated in clear concise terms that they are different classes (though you may have said that in the past I don't think your saying that here, I do think others have though). The clearest comment I could find on this is as follows...

 

Aurozia: Will there be a dual specialization system in the future? Will there be a possibility of changing advance classes as well?

 

Daniel Erickson: We have no plans for switching advanced classes - which we see as fundamentally different class designs- but dual spec is in the works and coming soon.

 

Community Q&A: Feb 10th 2012

 

...which we see as fundamentally different class designs. Did he mean designs within the class? Did he mean that they see them as individual classes? If they do, why not just say that?

 

....which we see as different classes. ....would that not have made it clear? By adding the words "fundamental" and "designs" they make it sound like they view them as being SIMILAR to classes but not outright...different enough to not be called classes, but similar to classes enough to not encourage AC switching.

 

Not to mention we should look at the source...DE....how many times was he wrong? How many times did he misspeak, give the wrong information, exaggerate or simply assume things that turned out to be incorrect? I think the last time someone counted, just before he left, he had made 6 statements that were incorrect or not entirely valid with respect to the game.

 

To my knowledge I can find nothing else that clearly states the AC is a class. In fact, on 4 different occasions when they spoke of advanced classes in the last year nothing is said about ACs being a distinct class. However, on more than one occasion they called it a "role" or "path".

 

So one can say they INFER that it is a class, but it is definitely open to interpretation...not to mention that they originally spoke of the AC directly as a "role", not a class, and explained it as a play option.

 

It seems they used the "similar to a class" excuse to calm down the fire after removing the ability to switch.

 

But this is really moot. Whether or not it is a class has NOTHING to do with whether or not it is or should be allowed. They will either allow it or not, class or not, it makes little difference.

 

I see it as a role...and a class, just like your spec...its a role and a class. And yes, specs can be considered classes and roles. They are distinct enough.

 

And none of that matters. Specs are switched. AC could be allowed to be changed, maybe not swapped like specs, but certainly the option to change a bad choice early on.

Edited June 17, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Hizoka]

You seem to be stuck on this as I have indicated.

 

They have not stated in clear concise terms that they are different classes (though you may have said that in the past I don't think your saying that here, I do think others have though). The clearest comment I could find on this is as follows...

 

 

 

Community Q&A: Feb 10th 2012

 

...which we see as fundamentally different class designs. Did he mean designs within the class? Did he mean that they see them as individual classes? If they do, why not just say that?

 

....which we see as different classes. ....would that not have made it clear? By adding the words "fundamental" and "designs" they make it sound like they view them as being SIMILAR to classes but not outright...different enough to not be called classes, but similar to classes enough to not encourage AC switching.

 

Not to mention we should look at the source...DE....how many times was he wrong? How many times did he misspeak, give the wrong information, exaggerate or simply assume things that turned out to be incorrect? I think the last time someone counted, just before he left, he had made 6 statements that were incorrect or not entirely valid with respect to the game.

 

To my knowledge I can find nothing else that clearly states the AC is a class. In fact, on 4 different occasions when they spoke of advanced classes in the last year nothing is said about ACs being a distinct class. However, on more than one occasion they called it a "role" or "path".

 

So one can say they INFER that it is a class, but it is definitely open to interpretation...not to mention that they originally spoke of the AC directly as a "role", not a class, and explained it as a play option.

 

It seems they used the "similar to a class" excuse to calm down the fire after removing the ability to switch.

 

But this is really moot. Whether or not it is a class has NOTHING to do with whether or not it is or should be allowed. They will either allow it or not, class or not, it makes little difference.

 

I see it as a role...and a class, just like your spec...its a role and a class. And yes, specs can be considered classes and roles. They are distinct enough.

 

And none of that matters. Specs are switched. AC could be allowed to be changed, maybe not swapped like specs, but certainly the option to change a bad choice early on.

 

so i guess you do not understand what the meaning of fundamental is do you...

[LordArtemis]

so i guess you do not understand what the meaning of fundamental is do you...

 

I understand fine. And you are the last person that will ever define anything for me.

[Grayseven]

Bioware is the one who said "fundamentally different" so i guess you know their game better then them... Are you really so entitled you think because you are too blind to see them as different you know more about the game then the people ho built it???

 

Sorry but different classes are different you are asking for a free max level toon you have never played. That is Pay to win plain and simple you just lack the ability to comprehend that.

 

I do. I actually play the game and can think without parroting some party line. If they were different, it would be readily apparent to anyone who has played them both. Since I have played them both and have not seen any fundamental difference between AC's beyond the same fundamental differences I see between two spec's within the same AC, I obviously know more than they do.

 

Since I have already played my Commando to max level, it would be no more free than my current ability to respec inside of the Commando AC is. You obviously have no idea what "pay to win" really means since you keep using it so wrong. Since your education is lacking, I'll refresh your memory...P2W is when you have to pay real cash in order to get an advantage. Since changing spec isn't an advantage, and changing AC isn't an advantage neither is P2W.

 

Before you try to insult someone about comprehension, you should comprehend yourself. It is obvious that your arguments exist only because you feel that game play should be arbitrarily limited for no reason other than your say so. What a tired, sad little world you must live in.

[LordArtemis]

I do. I actually play the game and can think without parroting some party line. If they were different, it would be readily apparent to anyone who has played them both. Since I have played them both and have not seen any fundamental difference between AC's beyond the same fundamental differences I see between two spec's within the same AC, I obviously know more than they do.

 

Since I have already played my Commando to max level, it would be no more free than my current ability to respec inside of the Commando AC is. You obviously have no idea what "pay to win" really means since you keep using it so wrong. Since your education is lacking, I'll refresh your memory...P2W is when you have to pay real cash in order to get an advantage. Since changing spec isn't an advantage, and changing AC isn't an advantage neither is P2W.

 

Before you try to insult someone about comprehension, you should comprehend yourself. It is obvious that your arguments exist only because you feel that game play should be arbitrarily limited for no reason other than your say so. What a tired, sad little world you must live in.

 

To be fair, the fact that the ACs are fundamentally different in design, at least based on that comment can not be questioned IMO. They are fundamentally different. Whether they are roles, paths or classes, they are different enough that one could view them as distinct classes if they wanted to IMO.

 

But are they saying they are definitely classes based on Bioware saying so?...not sure. At least not clearly based on the comment. Different is clear, class is not.

 

Again, it's a moot point...class or not is not the issue though some folks would like it to be. The issue is what impact it will have on the game if allowed, and if it is to be allowed what restrictions would minimize any negative impact, if there is any.

 

THAT is the core issue. Arguing over whether or not it is a class is ridiculous and unproductive.

Edited June 17, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Ratajack]

They are NOT fundamentally different. They share more in common with one another than they have differences. The Dev's have said a lot of stuff that isn't true and doesn't make sense so trotting out the old "the dev's said" isn't really a good argument.

 

I have a Commando and a Powertech. The gearing is nearly identical, the differences in abilities (aside from naming) are almost non-existent as anyone who has played both can attest. There are many more abilities in common than different. There is little difference in style of play between the two.

 

Let's not forget that both share a tree. For Troopers, Assault Specialist is the same for both Vanguard and Commando.

 

AC change wouldn't give anyone anything "for free". They have already leveled up that class, they are only getting access to two more spec's. It has nothing to do with "earned". To be quite honest, AC's could be removed from the game entirely and each class given access to 5 spec trees and there would be absolutely no detrimental effect to the game whatsoever. People interested in the 8 different class story lines would still level up 8 characters to experience it, so replay would still be intact.

 

I'm sorry. I did not realize that you knew this game better than the devs, the ones who DESIGNED it. I bow to your infinitesimal wisdom.

[LordArtemis]

I view AC's as class specialization...just as the title says, an "advanced class" within a class. Inside those specializations there are specs one can choose, specific tank, dps or healing roles.

 

Not every AC has a clear tank, dps and heal roles, and some specs inside certain classes are better tanks or heals than others in my experience. This game does seem to have the best healer for certain gameplay types, the best tank, highest dps, etc.

 

Allowing a change in AC gives access to alternative heal, tank or dps that may be superior to the other AC inside the class. In the late game, I suppose the question would be is this really fair, and would this cause the other AC to eventually be underrepresented and neglected. One could argue that on the weaker ACs players learn how to play the AC better to have a more equal footing with other ACs that have better role performance...would that be diminished? Would that impact the game in a negative way?

 

One could also ask "would AC change reduce the need to reroll, and how would that effect investment in the game?". Would players play less, or create less characters because the need to reroll is diminished? Or is it more common that players either delete old toons with bad ACs or leave them alone/use them as crafting bots, in which case an AC switch would have little impact?

 

These are questions I think we should be asking.

Edited June 17, 2013 by LordArtemis

[PeterTLJr]

One could also ask "would AC change reduce the need to reroll, and how would that effect investment in the game?". Would players play less, or create less characters because the need to reroll is diminished? Or is it more common that players either delete old toons with bad ACs or leave them alone/use them as crafting bots, in which case an AC switch would have little impact?

 

 

Heres my thought, no it wont reduce the need to reroll unless they make AC changing a whenever you want thing. I think the game will make more money off people paying to switch ACs even if its a 1 to 2 time deal, then people putting money into an alt of the same class. I highly doubt people would play less, if anything, they would probably branch out to other classes vs spending so much time leveling 2 of the same class.

[PeterTLJr]

I do. I actually play the game and can think without parroting some party line. If they were different, it would be readily apparent to anyone who has played them both. Since I have played them both and have not seen any fundamental difference between AC's beyond the same fundamental differences I see between two spec's within the same AC, I obviously know more than they do.

 

Since I have already played my Commando to max level, it would be no more free than my current ability to respec inside of the Commando AC is. You obviously have no idea what "pay to win" really means since you keep using it so wrong. Since your education is lacking, I'll refresh your memory...P2W is when you have to pay real cash in order to get an advantage. Since changing spec isn't an advantage, and changing AC isn't an advantage neither is P2W.

 

Before you try to insult someone about comprehension, you should comprehend yourself. It is obvious that your arguments exist only because you feel that game play should be arbitrarily limited for no reason other than your say so. What a tired, sad little world you must live in.

 

P2W is their last hope of argument regarding this discussion, AC changing as you said isnt even P2W, in most other games, you can change AC/Spec/Soul, whatever they want to call it, for in game currency, the fact that people are willing to pay actual money for this just shows how dedicated the fan base is. There is absolutely no valid argument as to why this shouldnt be put in, it DOESNT affect anyone but the person changing their AC. The fact of the matter is IT AINT ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS WHAT SOMEONE DOES WITH THEIR CHARACTER.

Edited June 17, 2013 by PeterTLJr

[Ratajack]

P2W is their last hope of argument regarding this discussion, AC changing as you said isnt even P2W, in most other games, you can change AC/Spec/Soul, whatever they want to call it, for in game currency, the fact that people are willing to pay actual money for this just shows how dedicated the fan base is. There is absolutely no valid argument as to why this shouldnt be put in, it DOESNT affect anyone but the person changing their AC. The fact of the matter is IT AINT ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS WHAT SOMEONE DOES WITH THEIR CHARACTER.

 

I see you've fallen back to the "I want it and I say it doesn't affect you, so I should be able to have it" argument.

 

When what you do affects others, and plenty of examples have been shown of how allowing class changes WILL affect others, then it becomes our business.

[PeterTLJr]

I see you've fallen back to the "I want it and I say it doesn't affect you, so I should be able to have it" argument.

 

When what you do affects others, and plenty of examples have been shown of how allowing class changes WILL affect others, then it becomes our business.

 

By all means, lets hear them.

[spectreclees]

By all means, lets hear them.

 

I told you a reason before, I get shafted on the fact that when I chose my class I knew I wouldn't be able to change. I like diversity however. If I can play a "class" that lets me heal tank and dps. Why would I play my Guardian? I only chose him because it was the better option for what I wanted to play: I could use 1 saber and dish out damage. But I always wanted to have the option of a trinity class. I put all my time in effort into my main guardian thinking we would never get the option to have both AC's. Now we may and I find myself wanting to reroll AGAIN because what I wanted from the beginning is being given out to everyone.

 

That's not fair at all. If they do this they need to allow me to transfer all my things from my main to my new character that I will play and give me name changes to both. As I use a name for my main.

Edited June 17, 2013 by spectreclees

[Ratajack]

By all means, lets hear them.

 

Go back and read them yourself. I'm not going to go back through 110+ pages just so you can find some weaselly excuse to dismiss my efforts, and you will, You have always found an excuse to dismiss anything that does not support your desire to CHANGE YOUR CLASS.

[PeterTLJr]

I told you a reason before, I get shafted on the fact that when I chose my class I knew I wouldn't be able to change. I like diversity however. If I can play a "class" that lets me heal tank and dps. Why would I play my Guardian? I only chose him because it was the better option for what I wanted to play: I could use 1 saber and dish out damage. But I always wanted to have the option of a trinity class. I put all my time in effort into my main guardian thinking we would never get the option to have both AC's. Now we may and I find myself wanting to reroll AGAIN because what I wanted from the beginning is being given out to everyone.

 

That's not fair at all. If they do this they need to allow me to transfer all my things from my main to my new character that I will play and give me name changes to both. As I use a name for my main.

 

Once again, how does me changing my AC affect you? Yes it is fair, you could have picked a base class that had the option to do all roles.

[PeterTLJr]

Go back and read them yourself. I'm not going to go back through 110+ pages just so you can find some weaselly excuse to dismiss my efforts, and you will, You have always found an excuse to dismiss anything that does not support your desire to CHANGE YOUR CLASS.

 

I only dismiss the ones that are pointless, which half of your posts seem to be.

[Ratajack]

I told you a reason before, I get shafted on the fact that when I chose my class I knew I wouldn't be able to change. I like diversity however. If I can play a "class" that lets me heal tank and dps. Why would I play my Guardian? I only chose him because it was the better option for what I wanted to play: I could use 1 saber and dish out damage. But I always wanted to have the option of a trinity class. I put all my time in effort into my main guardian thinking we would never get the option to have both AC's. Now we may and I find myself wanting to reroll AGAIN because what I wanted from the beginning is being given out to everyone.

 

That's not fair at all. If they do this they need to allow me to transfer all my things from my main to my new character that I will play and give me name changes to both. As I use a name for my main.

 

 

All that matters is what the great and powerful PeterTLjr wants. He wants to change his class, so the restrictions already set in place by the devs need to be changed so he can change his class. He also claims he only wants a one time change, so anyone who wants to change more than once is SOL. As long as he gets to change his class, he cares not one IOTA about anyone else, or what damage allowing class changes could do to this game.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Ratajack

[PeterTLJr]

All that matters is what the great and powerful PeterTLjr wants. He wants to change his class, so the restrictions already set in place by the devs need to be changed so he can change his class. He also claims he only wants a one time change, so anyone who wants to change more than once is SOL. As long as he gets to change his class, he cares not one IOTA about anyone else, or what damage allowing class changes could do to this game.

 

Do you have anything useful to add to this discussion or do you just like to follow me around?

[Ratajack]

Do you have anything useful to add to this discussion or do you just like to follow me around?

 

Is there anything I can add to this discussion other than agreeing with a false belief that AC's are not different classes or that allowing class changes would not have a detrimental affect on this game that you would not find some excuse, no matter how flimsy, to dismiss it?

[spectreclees]

Once again, how does me changing my AC affect you? Yes it is fair, you could have picked a base class that had the option to do all roles.

 

No, I chose knowing it was permanent. So I took the other option of JK because it appealed to me second most. You didn't read anything I said.

[Ratajack]

Do you have anything useful to add to this discussion or do you just like to follow me around?

 

I, and others, have contributed plenty to this discussion in examples of how allowing class changes would affect everyone in the game, how allowing class changes would have a detrimental affect on this game, of how the different AC's are fundamentally different classes, in their play styles, the skills one class has that the other does not, how it makes no sense for a trooper to forget how to tank, but suddenly know how to heal, even though he has NEVER even had a heal spell, but that it makes much more sense for a force wielder to put on some heavier armor and let his rage go rather than try to control his rage, and you have found some excuse to dismiss each and every example that does not support your desire for a class change.

[Rooff]

What is wrong with making another character in teh advance class you like?

[astrobearx]

All that matters is what the great and powerful PeterTLjr wants. He wants to change his class, so the restrictions already set in place by the devs need to be changed so he can change his class. He also claims he only wants a one time change, so anyone who wants to change more than once is SOL. As long as he gets to change his class, he cares not one IOTA about anyone else, or what damage allowing class changes could do to this game.

lol what a ridiculous posts that breaths of immaturity.

 

btw, if i were to replace his name and swap around a few words with your anti AC feeling, the post wouldnt look that far off

 

 

nuff said

Edited June 17, 2013 by astrobearx

[PeterTLJr]

What is wrong with making another character in teh advance class you like?

 

Absolutely nothing. The leveling and stories are very fun in this game, but there should also be the option of AC changing if you want it.

[PeterTLJr]

I, and others, have contributed plenty to this discussion in examples of how allowing class changes would affect everyone in the game, how allowing class changes would have a detrimental affect on this game, of how the different AC's are fundamentally different classes, in their play styles, the skills one class has that the other does not, how it makes no sense for a trooper to forget how to tank, but suddenly know how to heal, even though he has NEVER even had a heal spell, but that it makes much more sense for a force wielder to put on some heavier armor and let his rage go rather than try to control his rage, and you have found some excuse to dismiss each and every example that does not support your desire for a class change.

 

You have put out some very good arguments, I dont always agree with them, but theres a few that I agree with.