Loot Ninjas

[WolfbornPF]

From a resub view point. I left the game about 4 months after launch and resubed last month. I have to say the ninja looting or needing on every drop even if your class cant use it has really increased. Hell, as a tank I pug and to be honest as an old time MMO player I'm disgusted that the tried method of need before greed no longer exists in this game ( or is now rare).

 

Is it the F2P crowed or the fact this MMO feels like a Single Player when your levelling, who knows ? But now I make sure all understand I will tank for only a need before greed group and if they don't agree the group can find another tank.

[Uruare]

Primitive loot 'rolling' systems that should've been left in tabletop gaming...weren't. It worked in tabletop, much like it tends to work in guild-only groups.

 

That it works at all is despite its flaws, however, not because it possesses any particular or exceptional utility.

 

So now we get to deal with there being an inefficient and pointless source of strife in the acquisition process, probably because of some abstract notion of it being 'thrilling' to roll the dice against others.

 

Are we thrilled yet?

Edited May 29, 2013 by Uruare

[Ratajack]

as for your chance of wrong loot dropping? well. there's a chance that next time i take a shower, I may slip, hit my head and die. it is however, an extremely low chance. exception to the rule. and as such, taking a small chance and framing it as a certainty is abit... extreme don't you think? also. please note the bind status of said inappropriate loot next time it drops, as well as its value. chances are, its BoE and/or lower level blue.

 

Nowhere did I frame the chances of loot dropping when there is no appropriate class present as a certainty. You were the one who stated that there was NO chance of the wrong class loot dropping. I simply had the audacity to point out that you were wrong and back that claim up with not only my personal experiences, but the devs own statements. Apparently pointing out that you were wrong and backing it up with evidence was a major faux pas. Mea culpa.

 

As to your claim that those "incorrect" items were BOE or low level blues. Wrong again. I've seen it happen just as often with BOP purples as it does with BOE's and low level blues.

[lordspyder]

Primitive loot 'rolling' systems that should've been left in tabletop gaming...weren't. It worked in tabletop, much like it tends to work in guild-only groups.

 

That it works at all is despite its flaws, however, not because it possesses any particular or exceptional utility.

 

So now we get to deal with there being an inefficient and pointless source of strife in the acquisition process, probably because of some abstract notion of it being 'thrilling' to roll the dice against others.

 

Are we thrilled yet?

 

not at all...

It used to be when you didn't have to deal with ninjas all the time. But now there is no greater let down, than that item you've been searching for finally drops, and you're the only one of your class in the FP so it's surely yours this time, then the sentinel takes it on a need roll, cause "lolz, I needz to sellz it soz I canz repair"

[hages]

not at all...

It used to be when you didn't have to deal with ninjas all the time. But now there is no greater let down, than that item you've been searching for finally drops, and you're the only one of your class in the FP so it's surely yours this time, then the sentinel takes it on a need roll, cause "lolz, I needz to sellz it soz I canz repair"

 

I agree with you. But it has no point. some people just do not understand it or just like to troll.

I gave up trying to give them reasons. like a person said. youre childish. yes i am when i loose gear that others do not need.

[Ottoattack]

Many people at low level do not understand the difference between need and greed. However, if someone is a loot ninja I do not hesitate to kick them from the group. In one of the recent lowbie FPs we had someone roll twice on items clearly not for his class. We told him that he can not roll need on items he does not need, yet he rolled again on item not for his class so we kicked him.

 

If someone does not understand the system very will I have no problem explaining, other than that you are getting a vote kick.

[Vandrain]

I don't know why you argue with a certain person, spend another hour and you will still reach my assessment = he's a douchebag - end of story.

 

It's not CHILDISH to get annoyed when people are WASTING YOUR TIME. Thats trivializing douchebag behavior.

 

I don't care how anyone wastes my time, it's equally annoying. Granted, it's not as bad as someone locking themselves in the toilette playing the violin while I need to take a **** - But it's still wasting my time in addition to being a douchebag - I have all the right in the world to be annoyed.

[bryancuster]

master looter works wonders

[Ratajack]

I don't know why you argue with a certain person, spend another hour and you will still reach my assessment = he's a douchebag - end of story.

 

It's not CHILDISH to get annoyed when people are WASTING YOUR TIME. Thats trivializing douchebag behavior.

 

I don't care how anyone wastes my time, it's equally annoying. Granted, it's not as bad as someone locking themselves in the toilette playing the violin while I need to take a **** - But it's still wasting my time in addition to being a douchebag - I have all the right in the world to be annoyed.

 

Honest question here, but is it ok to waste the time of the player who helped produce that item, by using his efforts and then telling him he cannot roll because someone else likes that shiny more?

[Vandrain]

Honest question here, but is it ok to waste the time of the player who helped produce that item, by using his efforts and then telling him he cannot roll because someone else likes that shiny more?

 

If you honestly don't get it I would suggest that you get to know the gaming environment a bit more before standardizing your own code of conduct.

 

I could use your line of thinking about urinating on sidewalks. In the end people would still frown at me no matter how much I respect your right to do the same.

[Dirtysolutions]

If you honestly don't get it I would suggest that you get to know the gaming environment a bit more before standardizing your own code of conduct.

 

I could use your line of thinking about urinating on sidewalks. In the end people would still frown at me no matter how much I respect your right to do the same.

 

Very nice summarising sir!

 

*frowning at Ratajack while respecting his right to get a mouth full of coitus*

[Ratajack]

If you honestly don't get it I would suggest that you get to know the gaming environment a bit more before standardizing your own code of conduct.

 

I could use your line of thinking about urinating on sidewalks. In the end people would still frown at me no matter how much I respect your right to do the same.

 

I'm just having trouble understanding the hypocrisy of saying that no one better waste your(generic) time, but it's perfectly ok for you (generic) to waste another person's time and use that person's efforts to improve yourself while denying that same person the chance to use their efforts to improve themselves.

 

You can cite "social norm" if you want, but that does not change the fact that there is a double standard. You can say there are other means to gear a companion, but those same means can also be used to gear a character. FP's are not the only way to gear characters, nor companions.

 

We've even had someone defending and trying to justify a person that got bent out of shape when they lost a roll for a piece of gear THEY ALREADY HAD and therefore was NOT an upgrade. This one has me totally baffled since the the main argument seems to be that if it is an UPGRADE for a character, then the character has priority, but if it is not an upgrade then all should either roll need or greed, but all should have the same chances.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Ratajack

[AidanLightwalker]

I'm just having trouble understanding the hypocrisy of saying that no one better waste your(generic) time, but it's perfectly ok for you (generic) to waste another person's time and use that person's efforts to improve yourself while denying that same person the chance to use their efforts to improve themselves.

 

You can cite "social norm" if you want, but that does not change the fact that there is a double standard. You can say there are other means to gear a companion, but those same means can also be used to gear a character. FP's are not the only way to gear characters, nor companions.

 

We've even had someone defending and trying to justify a person that got bent out of shape when they lost a roll for a piece of gear THEY ALREADY HAD and therefore was NOT an upgrade. This one has me totally baffled since the the main argument seems to be that if it is an UPGRADE for a character, then the character has priority, but if it is not an upgrade then all should either roll need or greed, but all should have the same chances.

 

That person was me and I did give a lengthy post about how it is used for min/maxing and how I strongly believe it dropped BECAUSE of the person who it was intended for. Hell, the mod has str on it making it an obvious upgrade for a few components. I just don't agree with you at all. And if you are in agreement that hm FP gear is a stepping stone for ops, well you just can't get that gear out side of the him FP, so where else are you suppose to get it? I can get companion gear from basic comms and get those EVERYWHERE!! I have come to the conclusion while the argument you put forth is well though out and well said, its just no valid or true in my opinion. At the end of the day, I would prefer to do group content with people who share the same mindset as me. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[myrddinmelana]

When I recently (Last 4 Months) leveled a new ALT I noticed this as huge problem in low level content.

 

While is would be nice to report a piece ninja looted and have it go into a report that can be viewed before rolling with a person... Sadly the feature would be a waste of resources.

 

Because

 

For the Elder Game we have Guilds... Many different types of guilds..... One certainly fits your needs.

1. Find it

2. Join it

3. Make Friends in it

4. Profit

 

Ninja looters only prosper in an environment of anonymity. The moment you develop communities (Society/Guilds) they can't survive and will perish.

[branmakmuffin]

If you honestly don't get it I would suggest that you get to know the gaming environment a bit more before standardizing your own code of conduct.

 

I could use your line of thinking about urinating on sidewalks. In the end people would still frown at me no matter how much I respect your right to do the same.

Nice inapt analogy.

[Ratajack]

That person was me and I did give a lengthy post about how it is used for min/maxing and how I strongly believe it dropped BECAUSE of the person who it was intended for. Hell, the mod has str on it making it an obvious upgrade for a few components. I just don't agree with you at all. And if you are in agreement that hm FP gear is a stepping stone for ops, well you just can't get that gear out side of the him FP, so where else are you suppose to get it? I can get companion gear from basic comms and get those EVERYWHERE!! I have come to the conclusion while the argument you put forth is well though out and well said, its just no valid or true in my opinion. At the end of the day, I would prefer to do group content with people who share the same mindset as me. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

I disagree that the particular piece in question dropped simply because it was intended for the person who got bent out of shape, as it was the wrong armor type and in that dev post quoted by someone, supposedly it was going to drop the correct armor types. As I stated before, the system of loot being based on group composition is not working as intended. We are simply getting random drops based on that boss's loot table.

 

Since ripping mods out is acceptable and does not violate the "need on direct upgrade only" "social norm", let's say that we have a juggernaut tank, marauder DPS, sniper DPS and sorcerer healer in a group. A heavy armor strength piece drops with DPS stats. Who gets priority? The marauder cannot equip heavy armor, but the DPS mods might be an upgrade. The juggernaut can equip heavy armor, but he is tank spec, and isn't "off spec" a greed roll since main spec>off spec, according to "social norm".

 

OR

 

We're in a group with vanguard tank, scoundrel healer, and 2 sage DPS. A heavy armor piece with aim but tank DPS stats drops. The vanguard is tank spec and DPS stats are obviously off spec, but the scoundrel could use the chest piece for Akavi, but "social norm" says character>companion. Who gets priority?

[PurpleJediChick]

Yeah, we have had loot ninjas, seems to me that it's kind of mean to do that, but then I just take note of those people and then not group up with them.... there are plenty of good players who play fair. :=)

[Onyxus]

I think some people do it purely to piss others off

 

Just did Athiss hardmode as a DPS Spec jugg and the last boss dropped assassin tank chest piece (69) which the tank obv needed and the retarded merc healer who shouted at him for wiping us once needed it

 

Mercs don't have any companions that use willpower

Nor can they use the enhancement cause they don't tank themselves

 

***?

Edited July 30, 2013 by Onyxus

[Kaisernick]

I think some people do it purely to piss others off

 

Just did Athiss hardmode as a DPS Spec jugg and the last boss dropped assassin tank chest piece (69) which the tank obv needed and the retarded merc healer who shouted at him for wiping us once needed it

 

Mercs don't have any companions that use willpower

Nor can they use the enhancement cause they don't tank themselves

 

***?

Anything above Taral v/Boarding party is a instant vote to kick IMO as they should know the game rules by then.

as for lower lvl ones it seems that many new players just simply have no idea how to play the game, i got into a fight the other day in hammer station with a trooper who needed smuggler pants, i told him that use dont use medium armor or cunning but he was only looking at the armor rating and said he will use it its better than whats he has, even after going over and over it with him he still didn't listen.

lets face it most FTP players dont learn the rules of the game so u have knights in cunning and willpower armor and troopers with strength its a mad house at lower lvls.

[Onyxus]

lol.... now i get kicked for being a "ninja" for needing on willpower items with my Sith inquisitor which are apparently "healer bracers" (because it had a power stat and not a crit stat) when mine were level 49 greens >.> Edited August 26, 2013 by Onyxus

[Akow]

This is why I only pug the first FP you can do , and its only for the xp . But , I still do put up anyone that needs on another class gear if they don't ask . And I have yet to see anyone not agree with me on the kick .

 

All other FP/heroics I do with my guild only . Or wait until I can solo the heroic

 

They need to add something so you can only need on your own Class gear ,everything else should be greed op only

[Cybrdroyd]

My solution to this common problem...

 

/ignore

 

Sometimes when I roll greed i still wind up with the item, even if the other person rolls need, thats how it works out sometimes...the way the old cookie crumbles, know what I mean?

[NeroTethras]

lol.... now i get kicked for being a "ninja" for needing on willpower items with my Sith inquisitor which are apparently "healer bracers" (because it had a power stat and not a crit stat) when mine were level 49 greens >.>

 

That's just because your group mates were morons. If it's an improvement over your gear, take it until you can get something that fits your AC better. The only time you shouldn't need on gear like this is if it's tank gear. Heal/DPS is close enough that you can get away with it, but tank gear uses Defense/shield rating and absorption which is horrible to put on a non tank class.

 

Other then that ninja looters are a pain. I don't run into them often on my server (Ebon Hawk), though that might be because RPs server tend to have less *** holes and elitists.

[TechbotAlpha]

They should make it so you can only roll need if it's for your class. Aka a consular won't be able to roll need on a knight's gear. It 's not perfect but it would at least help hinder loot ninjas.

 

The best thing you can do is call them out on rolling need on a green drop, if they still do, boot them prior to the boss to save yourself any trouble.

 

Dear god, yes please. Sick of Sith ninja-ing stuff I need for my Bounty Hunter (it even SAYS 'Bounty Hunter' in the damn item title!) or stuff like that.

[Baron_Blackhack]

Discuss it before starting to hit mobs. if no one agrees then move on.