Pushback

[PerinnAybara]

Dear Developers,

 

Could we please get rid of pushback in pvp? Trying to cast stuff as a merc is bad enough with some people with six second interrupts. But all pushback does is make casted abilities that much weaker then instants.

 

Sincerely,

Mathrim Cauthon, POT5 Mercenary

[Kovaos]

I'm going to say no....but.... thanks.

[JouerTue]

no..why a dd should not have pushback on heals and a healer on damage abilities?

[sauerkraut]

Can we get rid of cry babies?

[skarlson]

Why should some classes get all instant abilities that hit hard and others have to deal with pushback? Honestly, I agree with this as it is unequally applied. Wishful thinking though.

[SkinzOCAU]

Why should some classes get all instant abilities that hit hard and others have to deal with pushback? Honestly, I agree with this as it is unequally applied. Wishful thinking though.

 

THIS

 

Casting is one of the BIGGEST inequalities in PVP in this game. Ask yourself this, do casts hit harder than instants?

 

Several things that limit casting classes more than BWs favourites:

 

1. LOS will cancel a cast. Instants don't have this problem.

2. Interrupts

3. Stuns [if an instant cast is hit, it will land, whereas you can stop a cast midway through.]

4. Focus fire will limit you to getting one ability off in 2-3 GCDs. A an instant cast class wont suffer this.

 

Now ask yourself this too. What do the classes that have been at the top of the PVP tree for almost 18 months have in common? Smashers, shadows, op healers, PTs/VGs, marauders/sentinels, snipers. All of them, bar snipers [which have interrupt immunity] have better CDs and do not cast abilities, or those abilities are uninterruptible.

 

Lets look at what is in common between the weaker PVP classes - mercs/mandos, sage dps [although this has improved] - heavily reliant on casts. This is greatly exacerbated in the case of the merc/mando, where they are primarily and heavily reliant on casting, unless you count the one instant cast they get every two minutes.

 

The only class I feel that is instant, and not at a severe advantage is OPS/Scoundrel DPS.

 

BW needs to get out of the pre 1.2 mindset when no one knew how to interrupt and everyone could freecast. We are so far beyond that. It is almost 2.2, and the neglected classes have NEVER been the top of PVP.

Edited May 24, 2013 by SkinzOCAU

[TheCourier-]

THIS

 

Casting is one of the BIGGEST inequalities in PVP in this game. Ask yourself this, do casts hit harder than instants?

 

Several things that limit casting classes more than BWs favourites:

 

1. LOS will cancel a cast. Instants don't have this problem.

2. Interrupts

3. Stuns [if an instant cast is hit, it will land, whereas you can stop a cast midway through.]

4. Focus fire will limit you to getting one ability off in 2-3 GCDs. A an instant cast class wont suffer this.

 

Now ask yourself this too. What do the classes that have been at the top of the PVP tree for almost 18 months have in common? Smashers, shadows, op healers, PTs/VGs, marauders/sentinels, snipers. All of them, bar snipers [which have interrupt immunity] have better CDs and do not cast abilities, or those abilities are uninterruptible.

 

Lets look at what is in common between the weaker PVP classes - mercs/mandos, sage dps [although this has improved] - heavily reliant on casts. This is greatly exacerbated in the case of the merc/mando, where they are primarily and heavily reliant on casting, unless you count the one instant cast they get every two minutes.

 

The only class I feel that is instant, and not at a severe advantage is OPS/Scoundrel DPS.

 

BW needs to get out of the pre 1.2 mindset when no one knew how to interrupt and everyone could freecast. We are so far beyond that. It is almost 2.2, and the neglected classes have NEVER been the top of PVP.

 

Lol. Ranged DPS is a lot stronger than melee DPS currently. Assault vanguard got gutted, as did watchman sentinel. TK sage, gunnery commando, and all specs of sniper got massively buffed.

[foxmob]

not sure if you're talking about all kb's or simply the guaridan/jugg force push. the latter is an essential tool for guarding/peeling to protect healers. so as a healer, I'm against that. if someone is using it on your mando/merc, w/e. that's their problem. honestly, though, hold the line is on a ridiculously short cd. it's a non-issue.

 

regarding the interrupts thing, no class in the game has a short enough cd to solo me. if two ppl are on me (and they're remotely competent), they will shut me down and eventually kill my mando. but that's working as intended imo. tbh, I could use a guardian to come over and force push one of them away. lol

[foxmob]

Why should some classes get all instant abilities that hit hard and others have to deal with pushback? Honestly, I agree with this as it is unequally applied. Wishful thinking though.

cast times = ranged

instant abils = melee

 

why?

 

ranged units can attack melee while melee cannot attack ranged. every melee would be dead before they ever got one attack off if they had to run to ranged. eat all of his cc, and then not be able to attack on the gcd. likewise, they'd be dead before even reaching the ranged unit if the ranged didn't have to cast. this isn't rocket science.

Edited May 24, 2013 by foxmob

[Altheran]

I think that if pushback is here and that there is an AC that specialises in multiple hits in most of their attacks instead of bigger hits (Shadow/Assassin - more hits, more pushbacks), then there must be a reason.

[Astarica]

The logic of pushback is that classically 'spells' do way more damage than melee so they need to have some kind of drawback to justify the damage. Of course that's rarely true in a MMORPG which is why you have talents that minimize/eliminate the effect of pushback.

 

Personally I find pushback and LoS to be equally contrived. On one hand you're saying getting hit by a lightsaber makes you channel force lightning less effectively, but apparently getting shocked by force lightning has no effect of your ability to swing a lightsaber. On the other hand you're talking about indivduals who can demolish structures with ease but will have their most powerful attacks stopped by a small obstruction. You'd think people will just shoot directly through the wall and blow it up (maybe doing slightly reduced damage).

[SkinzOCAU]

Lol. Ranged DPS is a lot stronger than melee DPS currently. Assault vanguard got gutted, as did watchman sentinel. TK sage, gunnery commando, and all specs of sniper got massively buffed.

 

Gunnery got buffed to be competitive with what other classes could do at 50. They are still massively behind. TK sage is in a better place, if allowed to freecast. Snipers are massively powered at the moment.

[skarlson]

cast times = ranged

instant abils = melee

 

why?

 

ranged units can attack melee while melee cannot attack ranged. every melee would be dead before they ever got one attack off if they had to run to ranged. eat all of his cc, and then not be able to attack on the gcd. likewise, they'd be dead before even reaching the ranged unit if the ranged didn't have to cast. this isn't rocket science.

 

Conversely if the range cannot stay at range he is as good as dead. Yes, some ranged classes have excellent tools for staying at range or excellent mitigation so it doesn't matter as much. Other classes really excel at neither and did not do so even before they were nerfed so any melee class that is really determined to shut them down can do so and often times outright kill them while doing the same damage, having better mitigation and equal, more likely better, cc which they can use offensively rather than defensively due to their superior cds and ability to close.

 

Melee have nothing to whine about; there are some rules that apply to discussions like this but thanks to biofail they do not apply here. There is a reason you see so many single and duel saber tanks running around; it is because they are two of the best ACs.

[kweassa]

Come back in about two months after you've strenuously practiced reading the battlefield, so that you learn to hit enemies while they are preoccupied with something else, and thus will minimize your problems with the pushback.

 

 

Next whine, please.

[skarlson]

Come back in about two months after you've strenuously practiced reading the battlefield, so that you learn to hit enemies while they are preoccupied with something else, and thus will minimize your problems with the pushback.

 

 

Next whine, please.

 

Excellent strategy. Hit something that isn't paying attention to you. What happens when they decide to head your way.

[foxmob]

Conversely if the range cannot stay at range he is as good as dead. Yes, some ranged classes have excellent tools for staying at range or excellent mitigation so it doesn't matter as much. Other classes really excel at neither and did not do so even before they were nerfed so any melee class that is really determined to shut them down can do so and often times outright kill them while doing the same damage, having better mitigation and equal, more likely better, cc which they can use offensively rather than defensively due to their superior cds and ability to close.

 

Melee have nothing to whine about; there are some rules that apply to discussions like this but thanks to biofail they do not apply here. There is a reason you see so many single and duel saber tanks running around; it is because they are two of the best ACs.

good lord, man. if a melee is within melee range of a ranged unit, then he SHOULD be able to shut him down. that's working as intended. punt him. root him. cc him. w/e. then cast/channel.

[Nissyen]

good lord, man. if a melee is within melee range of a ranged unit, then he SHOULD be able to shut him down. that's working as intended. punt him. root him. cc him. w/e. then cast/channel.

 

GOOR LORD MAN (couldn't resist).....

 

Have you not noticed that the mechanics in this game favor the melee.... Let's list some ways...

 

When you enter combat, your movement speed receives a debuff causing you to move slower. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but most creatures will typically run at an higher speed away from danger than a slower speed? But not in SWTOR... it's because BIOWARE wants you to be caught by the screaming mob behind you. (but hey, I don't know you that well... maybe if a bear was charging after you, you would happily skip along through the flowers rather than run like your life depended on it).

 

I'm not going to list the number of active and passive debuffs that a melee can apply to you to incapacitate or slow your movement... but if you pay attention, you will notice quite a few.. Granted, if you are playing a melee class, this isn't that big of a deal since you have to be in melee range to actually work your magic. But if you are ranged, it pins you in place so you can't "get away" and, due to the contact pushback, you probably won't get an ability off unless it's an instant cast. Now, of course, if you are melee...this isn't a problem... most (if not all) are instant and therefore you can fight back.

[Monterone]

Pushback is completely unnecessary when you already have interrupts. Agreed.

[SkinzOCAU]

Pushback is completely unnecessary when you already have interrupts. Agreed.

 

And stuns, knock backs, mezzes.

[HoboWithAStick]

Roll a sniper and you won't have push back and you can't get interrupted and if there is ever a counter class to them Austin Peckenpaugh will just give them a buff to counter it.

[foxmob]

GOOR LORD MAN (couldn't resist).....

 

Have you not noticed that the mechanics in this game favor the melee.... Let's list some ways...

 

When you enter combat, your movement speed receives a debuff causing you to move slower. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but most creatures will typically run at an higher speed away from danger than a slower speed? But not in SWTOR... it's because BIOWARE wants you to be caught by the screaming mob behind you. (but hey, I don't know you that well... maybe if a bear was charging after you, you would happily skip along through the flowers rather than run like your life depended on it).

 

I'm not going to list the number of active and passive debuffs that a melee can apply to you to incapacitate or slow your movement... but if you pay attention, you will notice quite a few.. Granted, if you are playing a melee class, this isn't that big of a deal since you have to be in melee range to actually work your magic. But if you are ranged, it pins you in place so you can't "get away" and, due to the contact pushback, you probably won't get an ability off unless it's an instant cast. Now, of course, if you are melee...this isn't a problem... most (if not all) are instant and therefore you can fight back.

I've logged more WZ hours on my mando than any other toon. I don't need you to tell me what it's like to be ranged. and I mean a debilitated ranged, not one with excellent CC and immunity skills (aka: sniper/gs). all of that said, in 2.0, mandos have *excellent* tools to maintain distance without being untouchable or unmoveable. hold the line has a short cd. electro net is extremely powerful. the punt roots. full auto slows. if you are really in tough shape, you can burn tech override for an instant mezz. you have a breaker, hold the line, and diversion to break roots (2 also break snares), you can dispell tech snares/roots. you're crying over nothing. snipers have obscene immunities. mandos are fair. don't ask for more. you're not supposed to be invincible. you are supposed to go down, alone against a melee of equal skill if he catches you in melee range w/o having to burn his closer.

Edited May 25, 2013 by foxmob

[DeadDogBarking]

Roll a sniper and you won't have push back and you can't get interrupted and if there is ever a counter class to them Austin Peckenpaugh will just give them a buff to counter it.

In every fps I have ever played I love the sniper, but getting cover in the open without having to move is not sniping it is having your cake and eating it.