UltimateKrucible Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Gah - just something about this WZ is bugging me. I think the scoring system is over complicated .... and it annoys me that it's the one WZ you can win points without controlling a node. Anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Gah - just something about this WZ is bugging me. I think the scoring system is over complicated .... and it annoys me that it's the one WZ you can win points without controlling a node. Anyone else? You can't deposit the orb without controlling a pylon. Hypergates is a pretty dumb map but it's not because of its scoring system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeJagoff Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 only when I get it 4 times in a row. Though, it does seem to favor premades more than any of the other maps, so that can be annoying for solo queue pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) only when I get it 4 times in a row. Though, it does seem to favor premades more than any of the other maps, so that can be annoying for solo queue pugs. It favors premade because this is the one map where 'not lose' means 'you win'. If you can keep the other side from capping their node, you simply won't lose the game. Taking such a passive strategy in the other WZs, even against PUGs, can sometimes cause your team to get burned, but this is a perfectly viable, and arguably the best strategy for Hypergates. What's even worse is if the PUG actually read that strategy correctly and have the right personnel to counter it, then be prepared for some of the boringest PvP action you'll ever see in SWTOR. It's bad enough to make you wish you simply got double capped and lost so you can be put out of your misery of fighting instead of yet another round with nothing capped on either side. Edited May 19, 2013 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Never liked it from the start its a map made for stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayblazen Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 After 3 straight days of primarily herperderper gate pops I'm beginning to wish it didn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) After 3 straight days of primarily herperderper gate pops I'm beginning to wish it didn't exist. I think if you get to do some derping in the middle you're already ahead on this map. Let's say after first round neither side capped their turret so the score is 0-0. What do you do on the next round? Is your team winning? Is your team losing? Should you adjust your strategy? You literally have no idea what's going on and most likely end up executing the same strategy and just hope it'll magically be better than the last time. Even in a 10-0 Alderaan, at least you definitey know if you're on the winning or the losing side. That said it's also pretty frustrating when it's the round you're going to win, and you know the only way the enemy team can come back is by double capping, but you're still the only person by your pylon and then you get killed and lose the game. Edited May 19, 2013 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugolino Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 After 3 straight days of primarily herperderper gate pops I'm beginning to wish it didn't exist. But at least it's not Huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avicii Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) Never liked it from the start its a map made for stealth. Agree but I like it as a Sin Place your portal part way to the pylon and after a blast you can get there very quickly. As well as cap the enemies pylon in PuGs when they get lazy and leave no or 1 guard. You can really overcome bad pug play on your own side. Until the non-stealthers draw people back to guard which happens more often then not But as noted a premade can control the game easily by just forgoing mid and pushing the enemy pin stopping the cap most pugs can't or aren't smart enough to counter that. Heck in 1 match today last round I sap a charging VG half way to the pylon with another stealther I go to cap so the other sin can resap him and he stands there and watches dude break the sap and charge me with 1 sec left on the cap then their team charges us to stop the cap grrr. That's pugs for you though. Edited May 19, 2013 by Avicii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryuzo Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 To the contrary, it's a map that has grown on me over time and is now up there with Civil War and Huttball for me in level of enjoyment. Though I enjoy it more in ranked than I do in regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) For entertainment value, it's hard to beat sapping an attacker with 1 second left on pylon explosion, and doubly so if that attacker was a stealth capable class. Edited May 19, 2013 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banderal Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 It's bad enough to make you wish you simply got double capped and lost so you can be put out of your misery of fighting instead of yet another round with nothing capped on either side. Heh. Just got out of one where we decided to go to the "off" node hard first - double capped them for the whole round. 1/2 of them quit (or whatever it takes to get the WZ shutdown message.) More joined. We double capped again. I felt kinda bad for them. But I agree with the original poster that the score is more complicated than in needs to be. In my rather worthless opinion... keep the points for kills (that you only get if you have a pylon). Keep the orbs points that you get no matter what. But ditch whatever the weird bonus thing you get based on what you got before or whatever. That just makes people go *** when it looked like you were fairly close at the end of the round, then suddenly you are 50 points down after the next set of caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) Heh. Just got out of one where we decided to go to the "off" node hard first - double capped them for the whole round. 1/2 of them quit (or whatever it takes to get the WZ shutdown message.) More joined. We double capped again. I felt kinda bad for them. But I agree with the original poster that the score is more complicated than in needs to be. In my rather worthless opinion... keep the points for kills (that you only get if you have a pylon). Keep the orbs points that you get no matter what. But ditch whatever the weird bonus thing you get based on what you got before or whatever. That just makes people go *** when it looked like you were fairly close at the end of the round, then suddenly you are 50 points down after the next set of caps. Well unlike most maps, there isn't really a 'home court' advantage for the node people commonly associate as 'theirs'. So if your side is stronger sure you just go for the double cap knock out immediately because if you can beat them in mid, you can beat them at their node too. I'm more offended by case where the opposing team capped 1 and we capped 0, versus the case where the other team capped 2. In the latter the opposing team was clearly superior so you get rolled and that's fine. In the former case, to maintain a 1-0 advantage in pylon means that team is not strong enough to completely dominate you. However, they should still be strong enough to control middle, which would end the game faster (prevent capping doesn't increase your own score). Now, to be fair most of the time people just quit when you've no pylons capped so the game does end faster, but if your team is determined, a prevent-capping strategy simply produces a longer game with the identical result than just the standard control middle strategy. I am a firm believer that a strong team always needs to put away the enemy team in the shortest time possible or they've no right to even brag about how good they are. If my team can finish your team in 6 minutes in Huttball, we absolutely will do it and put your team out of their misery. Edited May 19, 2013 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banderal Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Well unlike most maps, there isn't really a 'home court' advantage for the node people commonly associate as 'theirs'. So if your side is stronger sure you just go for the double cap knock out immediately because if you can beat them in mid, you can beat them at their node too. Agreed. Almost. I think there is sort of a "home court" advantage to "our" node, only because people think of it as "our" node. I believe (maybe incorrectly, but in PUGs anyway), that most people feel it's sort of natural to go defend "our" node if it's attacked. But that they don't really do that for "their" node. I'm not saying that's right. I'm just saying I think that's what often happens in PUGs. So, no, there's not really a mechanical, actual advantage to either node for either side, but I think there's a psychological advantage. I'm more offended by case where the opposing team capped 1 and we capped 0, versus the case where the other team capped 2. [snip] I think I see your point. When we went for "their" node, I thought we were *only* going for that one. I was surprised, and a little uncomfortable when the leader had a couple go cap "our" node also. I didn't figure we'd be strong enough to hold both - and then it gets confusing for people as to which one to actually defend. But the strategy we ended up with was definitely to take both, not to just prevent them from capping. I think this usually fails (especially in PUGS), but it worked out for us OK that time. If my team can finish your team in 6 minutes in Huttball, we absolutely will do it and put your team out of their misery. Salute to you for that! The only HB I ever quit was when *my* team was up 5-0 and then started passing the ball around in the middle. The other side was /say-ing "just end it guys, this is stupid". I agreed with them, and didn't want to participate in what I viewed as sort of "kicking them when they are down", so I quit - foregoing the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) For starters, I don't like it, period. Second, it's not cut out for pugs. Pugs can't even keep track of simple stuff such as three nodes and now they're asking them to put orbs into the equation. So in a situation where it's required that your team takes both pylons you'll still have people running for orbs, as if each orb is worth 100 points or something. On top of this we have people rushing second node when it's not needed and by doing so are getting farmed. Add to this the balance between controlling mid and running orbs. People will mindlessly rush mid when there are no team mates there, disregard the five enemies and start to channel an orb....and inevitably die 2 secs later. People are stupid so the gametypes have to be basic and at this point I'm willing to bet that no one knows exactly how much an orb, kill etc is worth. So basically, stick to multi-flag and territories. less margin for error. Edited May 20, 2013 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I hate PUGs in this map. All a premade has to do most the time is send more than 2 to the other teams "home" node as only 2 at most will go cap expecting it to just be theirs, then the rest herpderp deathmatch in mid not even thinking to make sure they got their node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I hate PUGs in this map. All a premade has to do most the time is send more than 2 to the other teams "home" node as only 2 at most will go cap expecting it to just be theirs, then the rest herpderp deathmatch in mid not even thinking to make sure they got their node. Yeah, this happens all the time. I open at mid, do some pew pew, get an orb, go towards what would be my "left" pylon and sure enough, no one's there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Hypergates really has no bad strat except for not defending your pylon when mathematically the only way the other team can win is a double cap. It's precisely because the map has no 'home court' anywhere that you might as well press any advantage you can get. If your team always go for the 'right' pylon instead of the 'left' pylon there's no inherent superiority between the two strats. A lot of games I get into we'd end up with both side capping the 'right' pylon instead of the 'left' pylon, and it plays exactly the same as the case where both team capped the 'left' pylon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I never liked it. It has so many design flaws. You live and die by a pylon that can be taken in 6 secs. Beside that, its a complete zerg middle, because the orbs take forever to pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DroidDreamer Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 What do you mean, starting? I bumped Voidstar from it's bottom spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpurgo Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Never liked it to begin with, it's garbage design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I think Hypergates could be a fun map if they just removed the pylons. Looting an orb is an instant 2 extra kills. Team with most total kills wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordel Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 If I could just convince people to stop feeding, this warzone would be fine. This is surprisingly difficult though. Still better then voidstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorojus Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) I think hypergates is one of the best warzones in terms of, getting the upper hand at a vital point. Talking mostly about PUG warzones, I haven't played this one much in ranked games. Edited May 20, 2013 by Jorojus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Thats the only map I dont like when it pop up I leave the wz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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