Who feels like a valued subscriber?

[Midget_Yoda]

. They owe us nothing beyond what we already get. I expect nothing more because I get everything they promised already.

Actually, they owe us content which has passed reasonable QA, which this patch, like virtually all of them, has failed to do. Subs pay for content which works as (pre-)advertised, and we rarely get a release which is even close to that...

[Darth_Moonshadow]

If I was a game developer/community manager/EA/Bioware....

 

I would value subscribers above free players and make content for them so they can ENJOY the game and I'd want to ENJOY making FUN content for those dedicated players.

 

What I wouldnt do is ruin my games reputation by paying more attention to how much money I'm earning, I wouldnt focus on content for the free players. What I wouldnt do is ignore paying customers.

 

I wouldnt ignore exploits and bugs. I also wouldnt make a 46 second trailer and only show 15 seconds of footage.

 

Just saying.

 

And I, as the average consumer of your fine game, will complain about ever decision you make. I will point out how you cater to the idiotic casuals or the no life having hardcores with your child proof gameplay controls and over tuned/undertuned content difficulty. I will ask that you be fired and replaced by someone more competent in game design while having no actual experience in the field or knowledge of your own expertise. I would make your life a living hell for not designing the game around my own personal needs and make massive generalizations that the playerbase agrees with me. I'll call you horrible, an abomination against gamers, simply because you colored my favorite pair of robes a slight shade lighter than I wanted. Every change you make to try to appease me, I will reject and throw back into your face without telling you what you did wrong. I will scream and fuss and cry and moan that you're so out of touch with players like me.

 

And when you reach that brink of mental breakdown, that moment where you want to smash my face in with a keyboard until the keys are protruding from my destroyed skull, and you say "SHUT UP! SHUT UP! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SHUT UP!"

 

That point?

 

I'm going to lean in, look you dead in the eyes and say seven words that will end your little dream and leave behind the shattered remains of your innocence and sanity:

 

"I'm a subscriber, so listen to me."

 

[branmakmuffin]

If you didnt like the dinner after trying it, you can refuse to pay for it.

If you really think it was truly and horribly awful, sure. And if you think TOR is truly and horribly awful, you can unsubscribe and take the fight to BWEA to get your money back for the 1 month you subscribed for.

[Tim-ONeil]

It's not wrong of them to want to earn money from the game, on the contrary it's a healthy aproach to want to make money. It is however wrong to go the way they have, in the short perspective they have made great money on the Cartel Market and probably will do so for a while forth, but then?

Already the game lost too many subscribers and with this upsetting patch I'm sure far too many more will cancel their subscriptions. The question is, what will happen when too many subscribers unsub? Will the F2P player base be enough to keep the game going? I don't thiink it will work out well, but that's just me.

 

Here's the thing you have to keep in mind. The market has changed. Subscribers are no longer the key to your business. There are perks for subscribing as a player. As a business you subscribing is not the be all end all anymore as additional revenue streams are important.

 

Now to be perfectly honest if you spend a lot in the cartel and don't subscribe that's pretty illogical. But that's your option.

[XuShaBi]

It's not asking if people see any value in the game, it's asking subscribers if they feel like the company cares about them at all.

 

I honestly don't care whether Bioware/EA cares about me as long as they provide me with the content or service value deserving of $15 per month. I think most players would agree with me.

 

If you want people to care about you beyond that then you should probably go talk with your family and friends, not from EA/Bioware.

Edited May 15, 2013 by XuShaBi

[skarvika]

I'll say it again, just for you: If I feel the game has enough value for what I pay (and I do), then I feel valued as a subscriber (and I do). That's not the answer the OP has predetermined is what "the playerbase" feels, but that's the way it goes.

 

I suppose that's valid enough. Carry on.

 

I honestly don't care whether Bioware/EA cares about me as long as they provide me with the content or service value deserving of $15 per month.

That's generally what people mean when they mention a company "caring" about its customers...it's just a figure of speech.

Edited May 15, 2013 by skarvika

[Tim-ONeil]

That's generally what people mean when they mention a company "caring" about its customers...it's just a figure of speech.

 

No it's really not. You meant it literally, you can't backtrack now. You want to feel like they should bend over backwards for you. It's not that kind of relationship. They give you x for y. That's it. It's not a relationship with a financial adviser. There's no face time. You pay for access, period.

[CosmicKat]

Here's the thing you have to keep in mind. The market has changed. Subscribers are no longer the key to your business. There are perks for subscribing as a player. As a business you subscribing is not the be all end all anymore as additional revenue streams are important.

 

Now to be perfectly honest if you spend a lot in the cartel and don't subscribe that's pretty illogical. But that's your option.

 

The products have changed, the market is the same.

 

People are willing to pay $15/month, or more for a game if it is worth $15/month. Between 75%-90% who have subscribed to this game have decided it was not worth $15. That is the reality of TOR.

 

Had the game been better, and the retention rate been as low as 50%, there would be no CM.

[Cleet_Xia]

Remember how long it took them to develop the UI editor? - - well, compare that with this new collection system.

 

Pretty obvious that my sub is being spent developing features and items for the CM instead of the regular content updates that are part of the advertised package for all MMOs ~ including this one.

 

The regular content update with 2.2 better blow my skirt up.....jus sayin.

[Repman]

Would you feel more valued if you got a massage with your subscription? You get the subscription to access the features. You accept this or you don't. It's not an emotional thing.

 

You can also request your money back if you don't like a movie. Of course that doesn't work if you watch the WHOLE movie lol

[Jeweledleah]

I haven't for some time now.

 

bear in mind, I'm not saying that I don't like the game, I like it. I just don't feel like subscription is the best deal anymore. too many things require cartel coin only purchases with or without subscription, and as someone who's been paying for a while, its not a big deal for me to just get unlocks for all the stuff raw free to play accounts don't get.

 

at this point I'm basically realizing that I'm better off forgoing subscription and buying cartel coins directly as needed for those fluff items that you cannot buy in other ways. cheaper that way.

[theonetruebleed]

I'm not asking to be uber 1337, i'm not asking for vast tracts of extra content at no other cost. But what would be nice, just to make me feel like my investment - at a personal level mind you - is not just valued, but cherished. Little things like, for example but not limited to:

 

- Subscriber only access to certain areas or gear maybe that F2Pers will never ever have access to, not even via the Cartel Market, so we can bask in the magnificence of being truly exemplary human beings.

- How about a nice message when i start the game up, something along the lines of "Hey, thanks for being a subscriber, champ. And thanks for putting up with those peasant free to players, we all know they're scum, but they increase our profit margins two fold, but don't worry, we recognise that you and all your resplendent fellow subscribers are truly the paragons of the gaming industry. Thanks again hoss, you rawk." Or words to those effect.

- Subscriber only servers *sigh* this would be truly glorious.

 

You get the idea. Really, I just wanted to be patted on the *** and be told i'm the man for supporting the cause, and i want it frequently and with sincerity.

 

Of course failing all that I would settle for a ******* from Natalie Portman.

[skarvika]

No it's really not. You meant it literally, you can't backtrack now. You want to feel like they should bend over backwards for you. It's not that kind of relationship. They give you x for y. That's it. It's not a relationship with a financial adviser. There's no face time. You pay for access, period.

 

Where'd you get that from? The question is really very simple...does it feel, as a subscriber, that EA/BW care about giving you your money's worth? Do they care about providing a service worthy of your money? That's the only question on the table here...

[Tim-ONeil]

Remember how long it took them to develop the UI editor? - - well, compare that with this new collection system.

 

Pretty obvious that my sub is being spent developing features and items for the CM instead of the regular content updates that are part of the advertised package for all MMOs ~ including this one.

 

The regular content update with 2.2 better blow my skirt up.....jus sayin.

 

Last time I'll say this. You pay for access. Period. It's a business relationship.

 

The content patches come out and everyone can use them with restrictions. You have no restrictions because you pay for access. Content patches are not part of your subscription, they come with the game itself which is free to play. You are paying for unlimited, unrestricted access to the core game.

 

Being a subscriber doesn't entitle you to anything more than that. If you go back to free 2 play the game isn't going to stop development for you.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Tim-ONeil

[Tim-ONeil]

Where'd you get that from? The question is really very simple...does it feel, as a subscriber, that EA/BW care about giving you your money's worth? Do they care about providing a service worthy of your money? That's the only question on the table here...

 

It's an emotional question. It's a stupid question. You pay for access. If that isn't worth it to you, you can still access it with restrictions. There's no caring involved on either side.

[bionamaster]

I still feel like a valued customer, in the sense I get Hotbars, access to content, access to customization, and a monthly allowance of CC. Do I think Race Change and Appearance Customization should have been free? No. The discount on the options alone is good enough for me.

[Anzel]

If you didnt like the dinner after trying it, you can refuse to pay for it.

 

...and depending where you go you can usually get what you order rather than some garbage lottery ticket crap.

 

I think MacDonald's should take everything off their menu and just sell Mystery McPacks. Just keep buying them until you find the food you want. Great model.

[CosmicKat]

It's an emotional question. It's a stupid question. You pay for access. If that isn't worth it to you, you can still access it with restrictions. There's no caring involved on either side.

 

No, it was a valid question that's been attacked by stupid questioners.

 

There is no right or wrong answer to the OP's question. It was a question of whether or not Joe Subscriber feels valued. Yes or No is the answer. Debating whether they as individuals are right or wrong in their answer is stupid.

 

It is their answer, their opinion, and as such is entirely dependent on each individual's perception.

[CyberTronX]

That's exactly it. I play the actual game whenever I want with no restrictions or issues. That's what I give my $15 per month for. I give them additional money as well for cartel items because they are appealing to me.

 

If you feel you aren't valued and get by as a preferred account then by all means do so. They owe us nothing beyond what we already get. I expect nothing more because I get everything they promised already.

 

Precisely this. I don't necessarily feel like they pamper me as a sub, but I feel the content at this moment is enough to be worth my approximately $11 a month.

 

If people would stop basing their opinions of the game on promises and upcoming stuff, rather than how it is right now, then there wouldn't be this much fuss over things like CC market money grubbing. Yeah it's added in, but I don't HAVE to buy it. I pay for no lolrestrictions, not the ability to change how fat my toons are for free whenever I want.

 

I have said this in every 2.1 bash thread: I support making simple changes cost credits for subs, and making character physical structure changes CC.

This is the same as any other MMO, besides my beloved EVE Online which lets me do anything under the sun other than change species for completely free.

 

Yeah. In that game I even buy my monthly game time using in-game currency. Now that is a baller way of being told you matter - "if you love this game enough, you don't even have to pay to play it, and still get every perk. Oh, and while we're on it, we're holding a new CSM soon, in which we fly community nominated players to OUR DEV STUDIO to help us decide which features players would want us to put into the game, so go vote".

 

Seriously, CCP business model = fu*king amazing company.

That, and they've personally apologized for every mess they've ever made, and KEPT their promise that new features will never be implemented at the cost of letting bugs go unfixed. This is something EA could learn from.

Edited May 15, 2013 by CyberTronX

[Darth_Moonshadow]

The products have changed, the market is the same.

 

People are willing to pay $15/month, or more for a game if it is worth $15/month. Between 75%-90% who have subscribed to this game have decided it was not worth $15. That is the reality of TOR.

 

Had the game been better, and the retention rate been as low as 50%, there would be no CM.

 

Mmm, wrong on that front. People don't want to pay for jack squat.

 

If a game is worth anything above or equal to a penny, the player will look into pirating it. If they can't they'll look for the freest option out there. If there is none, THEN they will pay, but they will complain that they are being gouged for cash.

 

The act of pretending to hate something so you can get it for free later.

 

Or as other call it, being a cheap dillhole.

[Tim-ONeil]

No, it was a valid question that's been attacked by stupid questioners.

 

There is no right or wrong answer to the OP's question. It was a question of whether or not Joe Subscriber feels valued. Yes or No is the answer. Debating whether they as individuals are right or wrong in their answer is stupid.

 

It is their answer, their opinion, and as such is entirely dependent on each individual's perception.

 

I'd love to agree with you once. But you are pretty much never logically correct and it makes me sad.

 

If you want to know if Bioware cares about you as a subscriber- as a person- then the question is flawed. If your value is derived from ANYTHING other than the express service provided you are not actually judging the service, you are valuing yourself.

 

It's simple. For $15 a month you can have this: subscription access. For nothing per month you can have this: a preferred account. Bioware cares enough about you to give you choices

 

There's a difference between value of a service and feeling 'valued' as a customer.

 

The first (value of a service) is a business transaction that is based solely on the relationship of payment for service. It's judged based on the terms. I give you x for y. There isn't anything beyond that.

 

The second (feeling 'valued' as a customer) is an imaginary place in your mind based on your mood at the time where you try to take a faceless company and humanize it. Then you try to determine if you imaginary image of Bioware 'cares' about you.

 

That is a fallacy. They offer a service they think is fair. You decide if you think it is or not. If you use anything other than the terms of what they offer to make the decision then you aren't actually judging the value of the sub. You are judging your own self worth and that's not what they are offering.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Tim-ONeil

[PlasmaJohn]

It's a business relationship.

Yes it is. Funny thing about business, if you lose too many customers, you have no business. The last investor CC painted a very rosy picture. The problem is that many current customers are feeling abused.

 

Regardless if you agree with them that's not a good thing for long-term viability. Unhappy people are going to stop giving EA money. Others are going to leave because their friends moved on. Still more are going to leave because their guild collapsed and/or they can't find groups. The only people that will stick around will be the whales and die-hard EA fans. Good luck "supporting" the game then.

 

Recent articles at external sites finally had a positive trend. 2.1 snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. SW:TOR really doesn't need the negative PR. Sacrificing long-term profits for the sake of optimizing short-term profits is bad business. Unless there is no long-term.

[LordArtemis]

No, it was a valid question that's been attacked by stupid questioners.

 

Why is it that people can't seem to grasp the concept that you can not insult people personally on the boards? It seems to be something that is lost on many community members here.

 

Make your point. Deride the post. Keep the personal comments to yourself. It's really not that difficult.

[CyberTronX]

 

I'd love to agree with you once. But you are pretty much never logically correct and it makes me sad.

 

If you want to know if Bioware cares about you as a subscriber- as a person- then the question is flawed. If your value is derived from ANYTHING other than the express service provided you are not actually judging the service, you are valuing yourself.

 

It's simple. For $15 a month you can have this: subscription access. For nothing per month you can have this: a preferred account. Bioware cares enough about you to give you choices

 

There's a difference between value of a service and feeling 'valued' as a customer.

 

The first (value of a service) is a business transaction that is based solely on the relationship of payment for service. It's judged based on the terms. I give you x for y. There isn't anything beyond that.

 

The second (feeling 'valued' as a customer) is an imaginary place in your mind based on your mood at the time where you try to take a faceless company and humanize it. Then you try to determine if you imaginary image of Bioware 'cares' about you.

 

That is a fallacy. They offer a service they think is fair. You decide if you think it is or not. If you use anything other than the terms of what they offer to make the decision then you aren't actually judging the value of the sub. You are judging your own self worth and that's not what they are offering.

 

 

Business psychology is over the heads of most people, and they would rather simply say if they don't get enough free stuff for their sub they feel undervalued. There is no rationalization for what you're ACTUALLY paying for. It's all about how much stuff they implement without charging you. Not saying it's correct, but it seems to be how most people think.

[Tim-ONeil]

Yes it is. Funny thing about business, if you lose too many customers, you have no business. The last investor CC painted a very rosy picture. The problem is that many current customers are feeling abused.

 

Regardless if you agree with them that's not a good thing for long-term viability. Unhappy people are going to stop giving EA money. Others are going to leave because their friends moved on. Still more are going to leave because their guild collapsed and/or they can't find groups. The only people that will stick around will be the whales and die-hard EA fans. Good luck "supporting" the game then.

 

Recent articles at external sites finally had a positive trend. 2.1 snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. SW:TOR really doesn't need the negative PR. Sacrificing long-term profits for the sake of optimizing short-term profits is bad business. Unless there is no long-term.

 

It's funny though, these forums will never give you an accurate view of what the state of the game is. That is because the micro transactions take place in game from the people that play it.

 

Log on and go to your fleet. See for yourself how many people are using these new features. That's the test that matters. Not the forum criers. Not the random people that post on internet sites. The people that already play your game and are logged in.

 

And really if you feel you are being abused for cosmetic changes that have nothing to do with gameplay we can't have a rational conversation anyway.