Bioware doesn't owe you anything

[TheNahash]

Yeah, my cable company doesn't owe me anything either. Nor my natural gas company. ISP. Electric company.

 

The food I buy when I grocery shop doesn't need to be nutritious or even food.

 

And when I buy a movie ticket, the theatre sure doesn't need to run the movie! That's just an extra, optional, bonus.

 

If you have alternatives and your life doesn't depend on any of this things, then yes.

You pay for a service or a product. You are satisfied? You keep paying for that service/product. You are not? You leave and take your business somewhere else.

 

Why is that so hard to understand?

We are not talking about laws and health care systems here. We are talking about entertainment.

 

If your ISP, your movie theater and your grocery shop don't live up to your expectations, you change them.

If the game doesn't "entertain" you, you leave.

[DarthTHC]

If you have alternatives and your life doesn't depend on any of this things, then yes.

You pay for a service or a product. You are satisfied? You keep paying for that service/product. You are not? You leave and take your business somewhere else.

 

Why is that so hard to understand?

We are not talking about laws and health care systems here. We are talking about entertainment.

 

If your ISP, your movie theater and your grocery shop don't live up to your expectations, you change them.

If the game doesn't "entertain" you, you leave.

 

I pay in ADVANCE for this service. As soon as I pay, they owe me something. That's the way it works.

[Darth-Malice]

Your right bioware doesn't owe us anything because Bioware doesn't exist anymore. EA owes us. Thanks for clarifying OP.

[Ultramecha]

Nice avoidance of the question; who here reads the legal agreement in every piece of software you buy or use? I would be surprised if you have read the agreement for even one piece of software you use. On top of this just because they say something is so does not automatically make it so in all scenarios. If you post a sign in a paid parking lot saying not responsible for damage to cars parked here yet you fail to provide reasonable efforts to prevent said damage you are still liable regardless of how many signs you post.

 

The law is not as cut and dry on this kind of stuff in general as you would like to imply. It is not even as consistent on the same scenario applied too two different poeple. All that aside assuming you are correct on technicalities there is what you can do and what you should do. So as a customer once again I ask would you apply those standards to any other service or purchase? I highly doubt it.

 

Everyone knows things are "Subject to change", that's just common knowledge.

But let me answer your questions you say I avoided.

 

So all the people who paid $60 for a game when there was no mention of F2P in sight are owed nothing?

 

Bioware didn't plan on F2P, it was just a step to keep the game alive, everyone can probably agree to this. As a sub you get quite a bit of difference of "Quality of Life" in the game. My roommate uses F2P and I think f2p sucks compared to a sub. I think Bioware did the best they could in trying to compensate subs in the F2P addtion to the game by giving a mass grant of cartel coins and other fluff items.

 

People who pay a monthly subscription and get substantially less than they got a year ago with the same subscription should just learn to like it?

 

I disagree, your not getting anything less. Plus they are giving at least 500 cartel coins to subs which is more than enough to enjoy some customization features.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Ultramecha

[colemak]

We give these guys money. Why can't we feel entitled?

[Noblis]

I checked the forum today,a bit later than usual, pages of brats complaining about how their tender

sensibilities were dashed by The Bioware.

 

There were no secrets. No plots. Bioware was quite open about what was coming along.

Then everybody looses their minds !

 

I'm with OP here. If the complainers are going to quit, then more power to them. But they don't need to return

to the forum to subvert others to their cause. If this game and the company it comes from is so bad, then why

hang around?

 

Monday : the game is fine

Tuesday : they add something totally optional to the game - some kids won't buy it and threaten to quit.

 

Confucius said : "Haters gonna hate." OK, maybe it wasn't Confucius who said that.

[CelCawdro]

We give these guys money. Why can't we feel entitled?

 

I buy my groceries biweekly from Safeway. Would it make sense for me to go in there and demand free Doritos because I've given them so much business?

[Ultramecha]

I checked the forum today,a bit later than usual, pages of brats complaining about how their tender

sensibilities were dashed by The Bioware.

 

There were no secrets. No plots. Bioware was quite open about what was coming along.

Then everybody looses their minds !

 

I'm with OP here. If the complainers are going to quit, then more power to them. But they don't need to return

to the forum to subvert others to their cause. If this game and the company it comes from is so bad, then why

hang around?

 

Monday : the game is fine

Tuesday : they add something totally optional to the game - some kids won't buy it and threaten to quit.

 

Confucius said : "Haters gonna hate." OK, maybe it wasn't Confucius who said that.

 

^

Typical MMO General Forums

[Ultramecha]

I buy my groceries biweekly from Safeway. Would it make sense for me to go in there and demand free Doritos because I've given them so much business?

 

You would be surprised people actually do in fact demand free **** because they spend so much. Welcome to The Home Depot! When I worked in retail people pulled this garbage all the time.

[Zakaan]

Listen you whinny little kids.

 

If you don't like things coming into this game - leave. Don't just unsub and come on my forums to tell us how it is. You made your statement (even though 99% of the time its a bluff and we still see your moronic posts on these forums).

 

Don't like it? don't buy it. Want to complain? Do it on your time, without flooding the forums with your garble. Send private messages - emails to them. Stop trying to rally people to your pathetic b*tchy cause. Its sad. I know this thread will likely get deleted, but the difference is I am a subscriber. If you're not - eat sh*t.

 

I love you bioware! Do your worst!

 

Not everyone is a masochist with low standards. You should learn to accept that.

[TheNahash]

I pay in ADVANCE for this service. As soon as I pay, they owe me something. That's the way it works.

 

Yep.

And here (first column) is what they owe you for subscribing.

Anything they add beyond what's stated is their choice whether they will include it in your sub price or not.

And, in turn, it's your choice whether the way they run their game is acceptable or not.

 

But that was not even my point. My point was that you're making it seem like a big deal when we are talking about a game that you can leave at any time if you're not satisfied.

[CelCawdro]

You would be surprised people actually do in fact demand free **** because they spend so much. Welcome to The Home Depot! When I worked in retail people pulled this garbage all the time.

 

"Would it make sense to" being the imperative phrase, there. I've worked retail, too. I know how some people can be.

[Ultramecha]

"Would it make sense to".

 

Sadly for some people yes.

[BlackEyeArtistry]

So is Netflix ..... and when they screwed around with things a little to much.... look what happened. Millions of subs lost.

 

I like this game and want it to succeed. Customers are voicing their concerns in droves. I know most will die off after the initial frustration wears off.. however change after change after change on a whim in order to "nickle and dime" people is a bad business model.

 

Most will simply leave without voicing a concern on the forums. That is what scares me. The few on these forums that defend everything the company does to the point it seems like they are looking through rose colored glasses are doing a disservice to the game and they don't even realize it.

 

There will come a time when enough people have reached what ever line in the sand they have set for themselves and they will simply leave. Then all of these people defending every move BW makes will be left with no game at all.

 

That is also why anyone who uses the argument " if you don't like then leave" is truly a moron.... These people would not be on these forums complaining if they did not like the game ( at least the vast majority of them) They want to see the game get better and yet there are a few people on here who drop this line on anyone who has anything negative to say regarding anything. To them I say be careful what you wish for....

 

Wow this was well written my friend. I agree

[DarthTHC]

Yep.

And here (first column) is what they owe you for subscribing.

Anything they add beyond what's stated is their choice whether they will include it in your sub price or not.

And, in turn, it's your choice whether the way they run their game is acceptable or not.

 

But that was not even my point. My point was that you're making it seem like a big deal when we are talking about a game that you can leave at any time if you're not satisfied.

 

I don't care about the specifics.

 

The OP was ranting - it's right there in the thread title - that "Bioware doesn't owe you anything".

 

Yes. Yes, they do.

[AlyxDinas]

Yeah, my cable company doesn't owe me anything either. Nor my natural gas company. ISP. Electric company.

 

This is, by far, one of the worse comparisons I've ever read about anything. Ever. The aforementioned companies only owe you continued provision of their services AND only as long as you pay them. A gas company owes you gas; it doesn't owe you a stove. It doesn't owe you anything besides that. An electric company owes you electricity. It doesn't also owe you a television, refrigerator, and massage chair just because you would like those things in your house as well. Hell, all the things you mentioned...internet, electricity, gas...are not anything even owed to you by the government, let alone a private company.

 

The same thing applies to an MMO. They owe you the game and they owe you the assurance that the servers will keep running so long as they intend to provide the service. That's all. Nothing more and nothing less.

[Anzel]

Yep.

And here (first column) is what they owe you for subscribing.

Anything they add beyond what's stated is their choice whether they will include it in your sub price or not.

And, in turn, it's your choice whether the way they run their game is acceptable or not.

 

But that was not even my point. My point was that you're making it seem like a big deal when we are talking about a game that you can leave at any time if you're not satisfied.

 

Whatever. They did a crap job. This was something simple they could have implemented and made EVERYONE happy. It was a softball. Low hanging fruit. A sure thing.

 

Instead they created an over-complicated piece of garbage and didn't even pretend that it's anything but an enormous money grab before this game goes belly up. Too bad. Lots of players could've been really really happy. Instead 90% of the community is enraged and will probably quit withing the next 90 days.

 

So in the mean time we can all debate semantics and the definitions of meaningless crap and all pretend to be experts on law and history and programming while we insult each other. Just keep spending those Cartel Coins boys and girls!

[Niklarus]

"Would it make sense to" being the imperative phrase, there. I've worked retail, too. I know how some people can be.

 

 

I'll see your retail and raise you having worked for county government nigh on twenty years ago. You wanna talk about whining, moaning and feeling entitled? Oy freaking vey! The stories I could tell if this weren't a semi-public venue.

 

The times I wanted to shout "No, you moron! We're not conspiring against you! Who the hell are you, anyway?" *shakes head* So glad I'm in the private sector now.

[colemak]

I buy my groceries biweekly from Safeway. Would it make sense for me to go in there and demand free Doritos because I've given them so much business?

 

I get frequent flyer points and 10% discounts. No Doritos though. It's an outrage.

[LordArtemis]

Listen you whinny little kids.

 

If you don't like things coming into this game - leave. Don't just unsub and come on my forums to tell us how it is. You made your statement (even though 99% of the time its a bluff and we still see your moronic posts on these forums).

 

Don't like it? don't buy it. Want to complain? Do it on your time, without flooding the forums with your garble. Send private messages - emails to them. Stop trying to rally people to your pathetic b*tchy cause. Its sad. I know this thread will likely get deleted, but the difference is I am a subscriber. If you're not - eat sh*t.

 

I love you bioware! Do your worst!

 

Actually guys, do yourself a favor and ignore this post and community members that present this kind of post in the future. It is meaningless diatribe that is contrary to the long term health and well being of the game.

 

If you have a complaint, please come to the forums and discuss it. In the past I would guess most players simply "voted with their feet" and the game fell on it's face as a result. This game needs constant critical feedback, and I for one would like to see you remain.

 

Try to keep in mind that many of the systems that launched in a state that was found unacceptable by the MAJORITY of the player base were altered to make them more palatable.

 

Your complaints and suggestions are likely important and desperately needed for the health of the game. Community members like the OP would rather see you leave and have the game destroyed for it simply because they do not wish to be bothered with negative opinions.

This type of inflammatory post is an example of a very narrow destructive view and should be completely ignored.

Edited May 14, 2013 by LordArtemis

[skarlson]

I buy my groceries biweekly from Safeway. Would it make sense for me to go in there and demand free Doritos because I've given them so much business?

 

If you paid them a monthly fee for groceries then yes and it would make sense to be ticked if they suddenly decided to start nickling and diming you for the food you should be getting for your subscription.

[Feztonio]

BW doesn't owe F2P anything. they do owe subscribers. it's the point of a subscription. MMO's have an established 20 year history. you pay the company and they give you the content. the problem is Bioware is attempting to invent a brand new system of double charging subscribers though Cartel Market microtransactions. in this new Bioware paradigm, you pay for your sub, then are expected to pay a second time for new content.

 

GW2 is trying something similar as is TSW, but Bioware is at the forefront of this new fleecing of it's community model of gaming and EA/BW are much bigger companies and SWTOR is a much bigger game than either GW2 or TSW; plus i don't play or sub either of those other games, so Bioware is the bane of my existence currently.

 

I feel I should be charged merely one time for new content wither it fluff, shinies, raids, wz's or new customization. that bioware feels I should have to pay two times is what I am disgusted with.

[CelCawdro]

If you paid them a monthly fee for groceries then yes and it would make sense to be ticked if they suddenly decided to start nickling and diming you for the food you should be getting for your subscription.

 

You are ascribing a purpose to the subscription that isn't stated when you sign up for it.

[CaldaRaric]

Yep.

And here (first column) is what they owe you for subscribing.

Anything they add beyond what's stated is their choice whether they will include it in your sub price or not.

And, in turn, it's your choice whether the way they run their game is acceptable or not.

 

But that was not even my point. My point was that you're making it seem like a big deal when we are talking about a game that you can leave at any time if you're not satisfied.

 

What? I deserve everything on that list and more! I deserve everything! They should make a planet and name it after me because I pay!

 

 

If anyone can't tell I'm joking then you're an idiot.

Edited May 14, 2013 by CaldaRaric

[LordArtemis]

BW doesn't owe F2P anything. they do owe subscribers. it's the point of a subscription. MMO's have an established 20 year history. you pay the company and they give you the content. the problem is Bioware is attempting to invent a brand new system of double charging subscribers though Cartel Market microtransactions. in this new Bioware paradigm, you pay for your sub, then are expected to pay a second time for new content.

 

GW2 is trying something similar as is TSW, but Bioware is at the forefront of this new fleecing of it's community model of gaming and EA/BW are much bigger companies and SWTOR is a much bigger game than either GW2 or TSW; plus i don't play or sub either of those other games, so Bioware is the bane of my existence currently.

 

I feel I should be charged merely one time for new content wither it fluff, shinies, raids, wz's or new customization. that bioware feels I should have to pay two times is what I am disgusted with.

 

A business does not deserve your patronage. It has to earn it.

 

It is the simplest rule in economics, yet it seems some folks still fail to grasp it.

 

Customers owe Bioware NOTHING. Bioware, on the other hand, has to earn every red cent. It is not a religion or political organization, non profit group or belief movement.

 

This is a video game AND a vehicle for profit. Therefore it owes for every single dime it takes in.

 

It's time that people stopped treating this obvious commercial endeavor like it's a family member or best friend.