Beware: Dye Modules, TOTAL RIPOFF

[Kilora]

It is still precisely how it works. When you preview.. you will see that those third color palettes on some armors do not change in preview and hence not in actual application either.

 

Don't confuse a limitation with tertiary textures with how the preview and applications of dye work for the primary and secondary texture colors.

 

In some cases the tertiary textures work out nicely with some dye sets. For example: Rist Statesman Coat, when previewed/applied with White/Orange results in a white coat, with gold sash, trim, and charcoal wrap highlights around the chest. It looks amazing compared to the default colors on the coat (which frankly are blah).

 

Oooh! I have another one that works well with tertiary colors.

White/Red on the Genteel Dress set on my Pureblood.

 

Gold trim to match her gold jewelry. Normal white on the set -- and the yellow cloth is now red. The same red as her skin. So now it looks like a skimpy/sexy dress.

[Andryah]

Oooh! I have another one that works well with tertiary colors.

White/Red on the Genteel Dress set on my Pureblood.

 

Gold trim to match her gold jewelry. Normal white on the set -- and the yellow cloth is now red. The same red as her skin. So now it looks like a skimpy/sexy dress.

 

Indeed! I was playing around with the Genteel set just last night.. and I agree. In fact.. for a lot of sets, the White/Red works quite nicely.

 

Surprising.. being as that dye set is from the Security Key Vendor .. and according to many people.. no good dyes can be purchased from a vendor in game for credits.

[LeonBraun]

Artifice also got stiffed pretty good with this dye patch... They tossed all the clown colors and color combos no one wants at the crafters and kept all the desired colors to sell on the Cartel Market.

 

As much as I've been patient with a good chunk of things in this game, what they've done with the dyes and how they've implemented them is pretty disgusting.

[Anzel]

Artifice also got stiffed pretty good with this dye patch... They tossed all the clown colors and color combos no one wants at the crafters and kept all the desired colors to sell on the Cartel Market.

 

As much as I've been patient with a good chunk of things in this game, what they've done with the dyes and how they've implemented them is pretty disgusting.

 

This could have been such a boon for crafters. It's such a simple and trivial feature yet people would have bought dyes over and over again from the crafting community.

 

It's clear that by putting these into gambling packs that they have no real interest in the long term success of this game. They are only interested in sucking as much from gambling packs as possible. So much so that even a tiny feature like this has to go the way of gambling. Horrible.

[Vandicus]

This could have been such a boon for crafters. It's such a simple and trivial feature yet people would have bought dyes over and over again from the crafting community.

 

It's clear that by putting these into gambling packs that they have no real interest in the long term success of this game. They are only interested in sucking as much from gambling packs as possible. So much so that even a tiny feature like this has to go the way of gambling. Horrible.

 

Lets just pretend that they didn't add dyes for crafters amirite?

[DarthTHC]

This could have been such a boon for crafters. It's such a simple and trivial feature yet people would have bought dyes over and over again from the crafting community.

 

It's clear that by putting these into gambling packs that they have no real interest in the long term success of this game. They are only interested in sucking as much from gambling packs as possible. So much so that even a tiny feature like this has to go the way of gambling. Horrible.

 

• Crafters are not hurting, not by any stretch of the imagination.
  
• Crafters got some dye modules.
  
• It seems likely that additional colors and combos will be released in the future, and at that point it would seem reasonable for crafters to get some of them.
  

 

.

If they had no interest in the long-term success of this game, they would:

.

 

• Put the game into maintenance mode.
  
• Cancel the super-secret space project, which still seems to be active per another thread on this forum.
  
• Announce that revenue was decreasing rather than increasing during their most recent earnings call.
  
• Lay off any and all staff who were working on developing anything new.
  

[Anzel]

Lets just pretend that they didn't add dyes for crafters amirite?

 

No no no... let's pretend that this system needed to have dyes separated into primary, secondary, primary/secondary colors AND they needed to be one time use AND they needed to be spread all over the known galaxy AND of course they are in random gambling packs AND etc. etc. etc.

 

Yeah, let's pretend this was a good design. Let's pretend the intent for the convoluted design was anything other than sucking the money from as many people as possible before shutting the game down. OK. Yeah, that's better.

[Anzel]

• Crafters are not hurting, not by any stretch of the imagination.
  
• Crafters got some dye modules.
  
• It seems likely that additional colors and combos will be released in the future, and at that point it would seem reasonable for crafters to get some of them.
  

 

.

If they had no interest in the long-term success of this game, they would:

.

 

• Put the game into maintenance mode.
  
• Cancel the super-secret space project, which still seems to be active per another thread on this forum.
  
• Announce that revenue was decreasing rather than increasing during their most recent earnings call.
  
• Lay off any and all staff who were working on developing anything new.
  

 

Most crafters go bankrupt trying to make money from crafting LOL. Gee I wonder why. I wonder why it's so hard to accumulated credits in this game. I wonder why there are so many credit sinks? If only there were another, more readily available currency we could use LOL. OK.

 

Crafters got GARBAGE colors and they got garbage colors for a reason. The fact that we are even discussing which ones they got and which ones they didn't is SILLY. It's a COLOR PICKER. There's no premium on picking a color. I mean really.

 

This game IS in maintenance mode. We are getting the third (at least) round of the same event starting tomorrow LOL. I mean... the exact SAME event. Running over and over and over LOL. Like... am I supposed to be excited that they are recycling this thing again?

 

They announced in their earnings report that they are making as much money from GAMBLING as they are from subs. Where do you think that trend is going to head in the future? Do you REALLY think this design shows they are incenting people to sub? Or do you think it shows that they don't care about subs and want more people to gamble? Yeah right.

 

Also, they DID lay people off. Lots of them. The vast vast vast majority of the original team is gone. Long gone. Including the OWNERS OF BW. They are gone too. Are even talking about the same company LOL??????

 

As for the SSSP... LOL I HOPE that it's dead. I am frightened to see what kind of design they would come up with. You think that would be something like JTL? I think not. You'll probably have to buy random gambling packs just to enter your ship LOL.

 

Here is your SSSP: http://elite.frontier.co.uk/

 

Elite. THE original sandbox. THE original 3D space sim. Back next year.

[LeonBraun]

Most crafters go bankrupt trying to make money from crafting LOL. Gee I wonder why. I wonder why it's so hard to accumulated credits in this game. I wonder why there are so many credit sinks? If only there were another, more readily available currency we could use LOL. OK.

 

Crafters got GARBAGE colors and they got garbage colors for a reason. The fact that we are even discussing which ones they got and which ones they didn't is SILLY. It's a COLOR PICKER. There's no premium on picking a color. I mean really.

 

Of note, it takes 17 items of various types and rarity just to craft one of these dye colors.

 

1) They aren't cheap to craft.

2) They are not great colors.

[Uruare]

The problem with the system isn't that its unfair; its fair. No part of it is erroneously or deceptively labeled or misrepresented.

 

Its just not very much fun. Not all of us are gambling addicts that go all squee-faced at the prospect of yet more gambling.

 

Primitive dye system an undergrad programmer could've cooked up in two weeks without much prior familiarity with the engine at all? I'm more insulted by the fact that I'm not even a programmer and I possess the programming skills to do a better job of making a more comprehensive and robust system than this.

 

Seriously, that's not even something I can properly laugh about.

 

This could have been something fun, engaging and generating of a lot of positive consumer opinion as well as amazingly profitable.

 

This isn't just dropping the ball, Bioware; this is flagrantly not even trying. You didn't even try. A system this crude, primitive and bareboned is literally the sort've thing a barely qualified nobody could cobble up over a weekend.

 

You didn't even try. And that, more than your hugely misplaced conceits of presuming you comprehend socioeconomics, psychology or social engineering, inclines me to think that you're not going to start trying either.

 

You are aware that your entire brand is impacted by 'localized decisions', right? That the Bioware name will be associated with things you choose to do even in 'just one game', yes?

 

You're aware that some of us will not buy anything you sell because you've repeatedly and flagrantly demonstrated your utter lack of regard for your customers here, correct?

 

Its...its really simple, Bioware. And you should take a look at what happened to a company like THQ. They made great games too.

 

They made some crazy awesome games, and had some possibly good ones in development when they sank.

 

You're not immune to the guillotine, is what I'm trying to say here. And its not just one bad decision you've got your brand stamped all over; its a series of them. A series too long to even politely or accurately summarize that brings us here to now.

 

Here and now, where you have every chance to do something right, to make something good that you know people would love, and you don't just blow it; you carefully select the stupidest thing you could do and commit yourselves like blind sycophants to achieving a degree of failure that can only be understood in metaphorical terms.

 

All you had to do was make it not suck.

 

This system? Bioware, honestly, what the frotz is this? How did you think this was a good idea? Did you pay some 3rd year undergrad $50 to cobble this up, because it reeks of either incompetence or absolute apathy.

 

And we know you're not technically incompetent. That narrows the probable cause to apathy; you don't care.

 

You ought to be ashamed. Seriously, if I were working for you, I'd quit. If I were in some other department altogether, I'd still quit, and I would be loath to admit to anybody that I worked for you.

 

Systems like this make you an embarrassment, to both the legacy of pretty neat to really neat things the Bioware name's been stamped on elsewhere and otherwhen as well as the fact that you'd literally have to specifically try to screw up some of the things you've not merely settled for screwing up, but plumbed some bewildering depths in definitively trashing.

 

How do decisions get made there, I have to wonder? Do you take an internal poll of the absolute worst ideas everyone has and carefully shortlist the worst of them, then consult a blank spot on the wall when it comes time to QA it?

 

All I've got to evaluate any of it by is what comes out here at ground level though, and that's more than enough to tell me, in no uncertain terms, that you care about nothing except passing around the cheapest, shoddiest hat you could find to collect as much money as you could manage.

 

And the appearance editing system?

 

I have no problem with it being gated by cartel coins. Honestly, I don't; its vanity, and that's fair game to nickel and dime away at, really.

 

Its the method. Once again, you could've done better by asking a tool off the street how to implement such a thing; chances are, it would've been more intelligently and sociocentrically optimal than this.

 

How? How did you fail so hard?

 

The tragedy here is that you probably think the fact that people are using it means its good.

 

Its not good. Its merely there.

 

Is it fun? Do you care?

 

Rhetorical question; you tell us how much you care, and what you care about, all the time.

 

What you say and what you do, they exist in two different worlds. And what you do would be better if it were a terrible mistake.

 

As it is, its the worst thing of all, Bioware; its forgettable.

 

Very forgettable, ignorable and unrecommendable to anyone to play with.

 

You really ought to look into trying. Its not too late. Plenty of people still want to believe in you.

 

You can start by not coming up with good ideas and then not even trying to bear them out into something that impresses. What a waste.

 

What...a...waste. It could've been awesome. Any number of ways, it could've been fantastic.

 

Nope.

[Hestis]

It is still precisely how it works. .

 

In the context of the conversation, no, it's still not precisely how it works. One poster described the overall system (not the preview) as barely useable (or similar), another said, "how so? I preview it, and if I slot it, I like it." So while yes, that may be how the PREVIEW works, I am not referring to the preview, and neither (I believe) was the original poster. I (and again, I believe the original poster, although I could be wrong) am referring to the SYSTEM, and it's not how the system works. Perhaps it's just me, but when a system can't handle something as simple as "make everything black," there's an issue.

[Andryah]

Artifice also got stiffed pretty good with this dye patch... They tossed all the clown colors and color combos no one wants at the crafters and kept all the desired colors to sell on the Cartel Market.

 

As much as I've been patient with a good chunk of things in this game, what they've done with the dyes and how they've implemented them is pretty disgusting.

 

I disagree. Some of my perfered dyes come from crafters only. White/Orange being IMO one of the best dual dyes in the game atm IMO, and is a crafter produced dye. Also the Dark-Blue/Deep-Green, and Primary Deep-Purple are nice on many armors as well. And the reputation recipes for dyes are very desirable dyes. If you don't have faction, nobody to blame but yourself. Those rep crafter dyes are making crafters good money on the server right now.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

In the context of the conversation, no, it's still not precisely how it works. One poster described the overall system (not the preview) as barely useable (or similar), another said, "how so? I preview it, and if I slot it, I like it." So while yes, that may be how the PREVIEW works, I am not referring to the preview, and neither (I believe) was the original poster. I (and again, I believe the original poster, although I could be wrong) am referring to the SYSTEM, and it's not how the system works. Perhaps it's just me, but when a system can't handle something as simple as "make everything black," there's an issue.

 

You are arguing that you don't like the fact that there are three color textures on some armor and that texture 3 is not accessible by dyes. While I agree that some dye combos in conjunction with a texture 3 color do not go well together, that does not = dyes are bad, dyes are broken, dyes don't work, etc. etc. All it means is that the texture 3 color on some armor does not match well with some dual dyes.

 

But that in no way invalidates statements about how dual dyes work for color textures 1 & 2.

 

These are two different topics completely, but because you are unhappy.. you want to lump the mechanics statements as to how it works in preview/application in with texture 3 lockouts.

 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater IMO.

[Hestis]

You are arguing that you don't like the fact that there are three color textures on some armor and that texture 3 is not accessible by dyes. While I agree that some dye combos in conjunction with a texture 3 color do not go well together, that does not = dyes are bad, dyes are broken, dyes don't work, etc. etc. All it means is that the texture 3 color on some armor does not match well with some dual dyes.

 

But that in no way invalidates statements about how dual dyes work for color textures 1 & 2.

 

These are two different topics completely, but because you are unhappy.. you want to lump the mechanics statements as to how it works in preview/application in with texture 3 lockouts.

 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater IMO.

 

No, I am addressing the original complaint. You are still addressing the response, which did not address the original complaint.

[Shoogli]

Well in the original complaint, if I remember it well he asks for the option to dye the 3rd channel. Not outright hide it.

 

That's only my taste of course, but once you've found a dual-dye that works well by itself then the number of outfits where the 3rd channel appears significantly : you'll find more nice things than not nice ones.

 

It's a lesser evil for me to be forced to see the 3rd than having it erased and not have the choice to have it appear, so to speak. It add more depths and volume to an outfit : generally, not always I agree.

 

I'd find it a shame we'd loose this 3rd and sometimes even 4th channel.

 

Now another problem I'd like to adress because I know the answer of it almost for sure : the fact that a colour, be it on the 1st or 2nd channel will not appear solid, either not totally or here but not there. It does sometimes happen and is "normal" so to speak.

Why it does this is because the tinting mask isn't totally "opaque" in the area it "selects".

It is done often to add volume on a surface, meaning the tint will apply full scale when the mask is totally opaque and will apply less if the mask isn't "totally" there.

 

Think of the mask as a greyscale. Let's talk of the alpha one because it's a white mask. When totally white it tells the tint go full on that area, when gray it tells the tint "ok tint just tint but not full scale, just a tad" and so on and so forth.

So let's say you have that alpha mask on an area and the chosen tint is hot chocolate brown. When the mask is white you'll have that hot chocolate brown there, then on the wrinkles (for example) the mask becomes a bit grayish, so then in that spot it will be less saturated and either a darker brown or less saturated and lighter brown depending on the underlying texture. Thus it adds volume.

 

BUT and that's where some people are rightfully thrown of balance is when the colour doesn't look the same at all : say it looks solid on the chest, and either very darkened or the reverse on another piece of gear, it's because on the chest the mask is white (full scale / solid) and on the other piece most or all of the mask is gray.

An example you can test as preview if you have if is choose a chestpiece that shows solid colours and try in preview with the CM covert pilot pants, you'll see what I mean on the primary colour I believe.

I say it again : it's normal it does this.

[Andryah]

No, I am addressing the original complaint. You are still addressing the response, which did not address the original complaint.

 

I am in fact addressing one of the responses, not the OP. Thank you for acknowledging that. A topic that is as worthy of discussion as the OP.

 

There is nothing right now that addresses the OP complaint... other then experimenting with dyes and armor to minimize the visible impact.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Andryah

[Snowangel]

Indeed! I was playing around with the Genteel set just last night.. and I agree. In fact.. for a lot of sets, the White/Red works quite nicely.

 

Surprising.. being as that dye set is from the Security Key Vendor .. and according to many people.. no good dyes can be purchased from a vendor in game for credits.

 

Oh really... and it took you just four days to find out... O.o

 

Just keep playing around and you will see that primary white works with a lot of items. And yes, there are some robes and jackets that turn out great after using a particular dye module. Unfortunatelly, one can count them on the fingers of one hand. And painting the rest of the gear in white or gray is simply boring to the bone.

 

THERE IS NO BIG, EXITING CHALLANGE HERE

 

Trying is a waist of time. The system does not leave enough room for creativity. The colors are uncool, the third color option is missing and the premade modules are frustrating - plus there is no practical preview. All in all, one cannot achieve enough satisfying results to feel like going on.

 

Just look around, keep your eyes open in the next weeks. Look for cool and awesome paint jobs. You will see a few yet not enough to make you say:

 

"Wow, the new dye system really brought SWTOR to the next level, I got to tell my friends!"

 

And a new lottery Dye Pack won't make that more likely. However, there might be some gear (like the Genteel set) in the next Contraband Cartel Pack, which design and texture are worth coloring...

 

And there we are again: $$$$$$

 

I know how it feels to be a good customer. Right now in SWTOR however, I feel like a good cow which gives a few Hypercrates full of milk every six weeks and is still not allowed to have black/white calfs.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Edited May 21, 2013 by Snowangel

[Primarch_PWnD]

I agree that its completely absurd to tell your subs "how much we value you", then put in a dye system that makes all the most desirable colors inaccessible to them without loads of money, and a lot of luck.

 

The real kicker is them claiming they had no idea we would feel this way....

 

This is after paying them $15/month to tell them we desired a dye system in the first place.

 

If they want to play Capitalist games with their customers, they'll pay the price. They've already experienced it at launch, when over 1-million people told them their game wasn't worth it. It's happening again, and they are still sitting in their office scratching their heads....they deserve their fate.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Primarch_PWnD

[jankiel]

I agree that its completely absurd to tell your subs "how much we value you", then put in a dye system that makes all the most desirable colors inaccessible to them without loads of money, and a lot of luck.

 

The real kicker is them claiming they had no idea we would feel this way....

 

This is after paying them $15/month to tell them we desired a dye system in the first place.

 

+1

[Anzel]

I agree that its completely absurd to tell your subs "how much we value you", then put in a dye system that makes all the most desirable colors inaccessible to them without loads of money, and a lot of luck.

 

The real kicker is them claiming they had no idea we would feel this way....

 

This is after paying them $15/month to tell them we desired a dye system in the first place.

 

And don't forget... after paying "loads of money" (this can be you or someone else listing it on the GTN) they are one time use. You can't take them out and use them again. So you (or someone else) has to go spend loads and loads more money. They thought of everything, nice huh?

[Ancaglon]

Most crafters go bankrupt trying to make money from crafting LOL. Gee I wonder why. I wonder why it's so hard to accumulated credits in this game.

 

Ah, so I must tell my guildmate that he's doing it all wrong by making a couple of million selling Dyes since last Tuesday, he should offer people money to take them off his hands.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Ancaglon

[Anzel]

Of note, it takes 17 items of various types and rarity just to craft one of these dye colors.

 

1) They aren't cheap to craft.

2) They are not great colors.

 

The crafted colors are just terrible. They look terrible. When you apply them they are just... terrible. Still not a peep from BW on this. They are hoping that it just all blows over so they can introduce their new gambling packs.

[Snowangel]

The problem with the system isn't that its unfair; its fair. No part of it is erroneously or deceptively labeled or misrepresented.

 

Its just not very much fun. Not all of us are gambling addicts that go all squee-faced at the prospect of yet more gambling.

[...]

Here and now, where you have every chance to do something right, to make something good that you know people would love, and you don't just blow it; you carefully select the stupidest thing you could do and commit yourselves like blind sycophants to achieving a degree of failure that can only be understood in metaphorical terms.

 

All you had to do was make it not suck.

[...]

You really ought to look into trying. Its not too late. Plenty of people still want to believe in you.

 

You can start by not coming up with good ideas and then not even trying to bear them out into something that impresses. What a waste.

 

What...a...waste. It could've been awesome. Any number of ways, it could've been fantastic.

 

Nope.

Yup.

________________________________________________________________________________________

[Andryah]

The crafted colors are just terrible. They look terrible. When you apply them they are just... terrible. Still not a peep from BW on this. They are hoping that it just all blows over so they can introduce their new gambling packs.

 

Judging by the number of them in use, and the prices being fetched by crafters for the faction dyes... you are once again wrong Anzel. this is not new of course.....you see the world through your own personal angst.

[Gammawaves]

I noticed that some gear has sections that cannot be changed, like most headgear.

 

I would avoid the Last Handmaiden chest piece if you want to color it. I figured since it was all white you could change it to any other color, but there is a large white section right under the neck and chest portion that stays white no matter what you do.

 

I will never ever purchase a random dye pack. I can only assume the people that spend real money on random items have some kind of problem or are just not very smart? I mean seriously what kind of person spends money on something they dont know what they are getting.