Oh Madness!

[Xethis]

I have a pretty good idea (I think) on a way BW can save Madness for pvp and pve. We are all aware of the state of the Madness spec for Assassins. They have no role or utility that any other melee class can't do better. Madness is in last place when it comes to their dots, aoe and burst. Lethality Operatives have better dots (30m) and can dot aoe. They dot up the battlefield and aoe, when its time to focus a target down, they have Backstab, Hidden Strike, Shiv and their bread and butter Cull. Other than the TA mechanic with this class, it is extremely fun to play. Annihilation Marauders have short term hard hitting dots with a plethora of melee abilities as well as tons of defensive CD's to keep them in the fight. PT's have hard hitting dots with some insane burst with their resetting Railshot and an almost spammable Flameburst that can put out some serious pressure.

 

So what about the Madness Assassin. Pretty much the only thing Madness has in their arsenal that is unique is Deathfield. Well, I think BW should capitalize on this amazing ability and just turn the Madness Assassin into a melee aoe terror. As of right now the only burst they have is Raze but can take quite a while to set up, two dots, DF and then a couple Thrashes. They are usually dead or close to it before they can get started.

 

These are my suggestions to make this spec really fun to play. First, apply the Discharge dot to everyone that is hit with DF. Second, take the CD and the stun off of Creeping Terror, make it spammable. Now the MadSin has about the same capability as the Lethality OP at dotting up the battlefield. Third, the aoe terror. High in the tree make Lacerate not only proc our saber charge, but also tie it in to Claws of Decay to increase crit bonus and reduce force cost to 25. So essentially MadSins are spamming Lacerate instead of Thrash. Fourth, we need some burst. I propose one of two things, but definitely not both. Make Shock 100% bonus to crit damage during Crushing Darkness dot, or make Assassinate available during Crushing Darkness dot. We will still need to spam for Raze, so the set up alone will still make this spec counter-able and in no way OP compared to the burst other classes can do. Lastly we need some survivability. Our real damage and burst has to be done in melee range and as of right now we can't survive against any other melee, and we can't survive being kited from any of the ranged classes. I say we triple the amount of heals we get from our dots and DF. I know that sounds like quite a bit but it really isn't. Yes Discharge will be rolling on quite a bit more people, but crit rating is still pretty low. The proc frequency won't go up a whole lot. As for the amount healed, it is laughable right now. We are still in light armor and vulnerable to burst classes.

 

So the role and play style of this class is get dots going from range (similar to OP) move into a group with Lacerate spam (put this damage on par with Rage Warriors) Force groups to either spread out or deal with you. If left unattended, the MadSin can put out tons of aoe damage and reek havoc on a tank and the healer he is guarding. The burst phase of the MadSin is just setting up to proc Raze and then Assassinate/Shock, both are on 6 sec cd so you can only do this once during your Crushing dot. I feel this burst potential should be about 5-10% less than the other melee dotters since we can do so much with our aoe. Our heals back should pretty much give us the staying power to stay in melee range with splash aoe and dot damage, but not so much that we cannot be bursted down.

 

Anyways, I would love playing a Madness Assassin as an aoe terror, trying to bring down all of them at once lol.

 

What do you guys think, what would you do to make Madness not only viable but fun to play?

Edited May 13, 2013 by Xethis

[cycao]

I was thinking that discharge should work like darkness's discharge which can hit up to 5 people. Also I wouldn't mind if you could talent into something that shortens the time creeping terror applies its dot.

 

Your ideas are not so bad aside from removing the root from CT (I think I read it right) as that rocks.

 

I just play 0/23/23 as full madness is lacking due to the fact that you really cannot kill anyone.

[Griad]

Have to agree having played both lethality op and madness sin madness need something, just the fact that i can cull 4 times in a row on same person is awesome.

[Xethis]

I was thinking that discharge should work like darkness's discharge which can hit up to 5 people. Also I wouldn't mind if you could talent into something that shortens the time creeping terror applies its dot.

 

Your ideas are not so bad aside from removing the root from CT (I think I read it right) as that rocks.

 

I just play 0/23/23 as full madness is lacking due to the fact that you really cannot kill anyone.

 

Well, I just figured if Creeping Terror was spammable then the root attached to it would be very OP. I would gladly trade the root for no CD.

 

As far as your hybrid, I think you got the right idea. For pve I run 0-18-28 and I am still having fun with it.

[Xethis]

Have to agree having played both lethality op and madness sin madness need something, just the fact that i can cull 4 times in a row on same person is awesome.

 

So funny that you mention that, I am having a blast on my Operative and as of right now it is my main lol. Go Go Lethality!

[Majspuffen]

I abhor the changes to the Madness spec in 2.0 but I highly disagree with all your suggestions.

 

Before 2.0 I played a Balance Shadow and Lethality Operative. The main reason I really preferred the Shadow was because we had control over our dots. AoE-dotting the battlefield is not a good thing. If I was to make an RWZ group, having an "AoE-dotter" on my team would seem highly detrimental. Imagine if your healer is pressured by 3-4 DPSers and your tank pops AoE mez to give the healer some breathing room... well, in comes dots to ruin that plan!

 

My only suggestion for Madness is to reduce it's AoE effectiveness and restore it's single-target damage potential. The main strength of the spec was that it was highly versatile and could adapt to most situations. It had enough pressure on its own to kill a healer (yet not as fast as a pyrotech could), or it could choose to apply AoE pressure by spreading around dots. Yes, it would take time, but it would be controlled.

[Xethis]

Single target is what Deception does, do we really need two single target specs? Second, I applaud your effort to control aoe damage because your Jugg wants full affect on his aoe mez. But just about every dps class is popping aoes and dots as part of their rotation. Rage specd warriors are still very popular. As far as protecting a healer, aoe roots and snares can be just effective as an aoe mez.

 

Don't worry bro, there is no way in hell BW will ever take a suggestion from the forums and implement it so my fantasy of a melee aoe terror will never be realized, as well as your single target Madness Assassin.

[Majspuffen]

Single target is what Deception does, do we really need two single target specs? Second, I applaud your effort to control aoe damage because your Jugg wants full affect on his aoe mez. But just about every dps class is popping aoes and dots as part of their rotation. Rage specd warriors are still very popular. As far as protecting a healer, aoe roots and snares can be just effective as an aoe mez.

 

Don't worry bro, there is no way in hell BW will ever take a suggestion from the forums and implement it so my fantasy of a melee aoe terror will never be realized, as well as your single target Madness Assassin.

 

I said reduce, not remove.

 

For instance, what I would like to see: Maul proc returned to our rotation and Death Field nerfed back to 3 targets, down from 5. Basically, I just want to see the playstyle of our spec restored to the way it was in 1.7. It was a highly versatile and flexible spec, and it was just pure fun to play it. For both PvP and PvE. Now... not so much.

 

I've tried to find replacement for my Shadow. While Lethality Operative is a fun class to play, the gameplay is not at all as smoothe as Madness was for Assassins. Bioware did a terrible thing changing this spec and I think most of us who played the spec before 2.0 wants to see it changed... and the change that would be most welcome to the majority of old Balance/Madness fans would be to simply restore the spec the best they can.

 

And I believe they can, without altering the tank tree or deception tree. Remove bloodletting and lambaste and give us our own maul proc, then simply adjust the numbers of that proc to ensure that we're on par with other DPSers. If they feel it a graceless fix to simply copy Duplicity, then they could give us a unique Maul proc of our own... for example;

 

When our DoTs deal damage there is a 30% chance to proc [buff] that reduces the cost of Maul by 75% and causes it to deal an additional x% of its damage over the course of 6 seconds.

 

or...

 

When consuming a deathmark charge there is a 30% chance to grant [buff] that reduces the cost of Maul by 75% and causes the ability to deal its damage as Force damage.

 

or...

 

Our melee attacks have a 30% chance to proc [buff] that reduces the cost of the next Maul by 75%. Maul will deal 2% additional damage per active Deathmark charge present on the target.

 

 

There are tons of ways they could be innovative and make a proc truly unique to the Madness spec and restore the lost synergy to the spec. Bioware said the spec was too hard, which is laughable... as far as difficutly goes, I always considered Lethality Operative to be a harder class to play, and Vengeance Juggernauts were on par with Madness Shadows--if not a bit harder, since there are so many cooldowns to keep track of.

 

At least we can all agree that the new Madness sucks.

 

[edit]

 

Came up with another one ...

 

Something has a x% chance to proc [buff] that reduces the cost of Maul by 75%. In addition, Maul places a debuff on the target, increasing the damage done by our Lightning Charge by 100%, stacking up to 3. Lasts 10s.

 

^ would make gameplay more involved, which in my opinion is fun. It might mean having to use Maul without the proc at times just to ensure that the Lightning Charge debuff stays on. But, yeah, not likely to happen... but right now, speculating about Madness is more fun than actually playing the game. :/

Edited May 18, 2013 by Majspuffen

[Xethis]

Madness definitely sucks right now. Its funny that you mention reversing everything to take it back to the way it was cause like, when I do pve on my Sin its usually in 0-18-28 MadMaul spec that plays almost the same as before except no Creeping Terror. It is again funny that you mentioned Lethality Op spec cause that is the toon I mainly pve on now lol. Edited May 18, 2013 by Xethis