Bioware Hates Combat Spec

[KnightGreg]

Ok first off: This IS a rant, but a justified rant.

 

So apparently Bioware came out and said Combat is not meant to be a viable spec. 3 letters, Bioware: W T F. By now we're all aware Combat generally does less dps in PVE than Watchman and significantly less in PVP than Focus. Bioware, once again you disappoint me. I strongly suggest you rethink your approach and views to the Combat spec. So, I'm going to do the thinking for you on how to make Combat a more viable spec by in large:

 

1. Make Precision Slash give, in addition to the Precision Buff on us, an armor debuff which is cast onto the target which allows the other dps in the group hit higher thus making Combat even more useful to the group. I mean think about the logistics: When you hit something with a move that is specifically made to affect the target's armor in some way, shouldn't you decrease their armor? I mean it's called Precision Slash for a reason. In addition, just about every other class has a raid-wide benefit in a boss fight. I know Watchman get their group-wide self-heal with Zen but throw Combat a bone for once.

 

2. Increase the damage of our Ataru Form for sure and if you really want to make a bunch of Sentinels happy, increase the damage of Blade Storm, Blade Rush, or both. The reason I say up BS and BR is because Watchmen get a buff to their burns and Focus gets a buff to its Force and AOE attacks.

 

3. For crap's sake: Make our moves look cooler. I'm sick of looking like I'm swinging a baseball bat made of light.

 

If you need to up out difficulty for getting better dps (which you shouldn't because it's already pretty difficult) then so be it. Also, don't make us directly equal, dps-wise, with Watchman in PVE and Focus in PVP because it isn't fair to them. For example: Make Combat, when fully optimized, with a perfect rotation in perfect gear, do 50-100 dps LESS than fully optimized Watchmen in PVE and we still are noticeably less than Focus in PVP. It seems every time Combat get a cool new aspect to it, Watchman and Focus get 2 or 3 which are way cooler. This is not that difficult of a concept.

 

Finally, before I receive a ton of haterade on just being a bad Combat dps, I know of only 1 Combat dps on my server better than me. If anyone so desires, I will post some of my Torparse links.

Edited May 8, 2013 by KnightGreg

[HellionFBI]

I do believe Combat is very viable in some fights

 

I used it in 2 or 3 fights last night for S&V HM 16 and was one of the top DPS. Especially in fights where you can't main your Merciless Slash stacks and Juyo stacks due to waiting periods (S&V big robot boss and puzzle boss for example)

 

My only issue is that I like the healing I get/give in Watchman and the fact that it's still seeming to be the highest potential DPS on stationary single targets but don't discount Combat for all scenarios.

 

I also run Combat in PVP unless its Voidstar which I switch to Focus for.

[slowantics]

where and when did they say: Combat is not meant to be a viable spec

im a combat sent the damage is ok. but i feel we got nerfed focus wise when they changed zen. and both bs auto crit

[KeyboardNinja]

I'm…a little unsure of where you're going with this. The highest parsing sentinels on my server are combat spec. The highest parsing sentinels on nearly *every* server are combat spec. Take a look at the torparse leaderboards for fights like HM Styrak. Here again, combat is holding its own.

 

I played Combat pretty extensively pre-2.0, and yes, I miss the old spec. Focus management used to be a lot easier, and the timing was more rigid. However, there is absolutely no question that post-2.0 Combat is unbelievably powerful. I hit 55 and parsed in my Dread Guard gear with Exotech biochem items at 2150, and each successive parse had been higher than the last (I think I might have been able to stretch to 2200 if I really pushed). Max geared Combat sentinels are able to push 2800. That sounds pretty viable to me.

 

Treat it like a new spec with a new rotation. Post-2.0 Combat is very different than it was before, but in no way is it gimped relative to the other sentinel specs.

[CellPerfect]

Combat is easily the best spec to use for pvp. It has much better utility and the best single target burst of the 3 specs. No matter what warzone you are in, combat's faster transcendence is a must. Combat can also keep a person rooted for 9 seconds which is quite game breaking. I have prevented people from scoring in huttball because I kept a person rooted for 9 seconds and we managed to burn him down in that time. A focus sentinel could not have done that. Focus puts up some pretty numbers, but topping the dps chart in warzones is not your goal. Killing people quickly and completing your objective is how you win warzones and combat is the best spec at that. Combat can still put up some great dps numbers as well (not as high as focus of course but as I said, numbers are meaningless). Here is some proof http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/1123435/pics/original/1693038.jpg Focus probably would have put up higher numbers, but i doubt it would have killed anyone. Combat was able to kill people in the warzone and because we had more kills, we won.

 

For pve, i have not noticed much of a difference between combat and watchman. The numbers are quite similar when ever i parse it. From what I have seen, others are getting similar results. I highly doubt that bioware said that combat is not viable because if they did, they lied.

 

Combat is the most viable of the specs because it brings by far the most utility and best single target burst (and even good sustained) damage needed to kill people and complete objectives.

[Olostur]

People who say that combat isn't viable simply haven't adapted to the changes properly. Before 2.0, combat had a very clear rotation. That is no longer the case. The best way to describe it now is a fuzzy priority system. No longer is it about timing your Master Strike, Blade Storm, Zen and Precision slash to always line up with each other. Instead combat is much more chaotic, and I encourage you to spend time on a dummy getting used to the different situations that arise and how best to use your skills.

 

Here is an example dummy parse clipped at roughly 5 minutes. Gear was a roughly even mix of underworld and arkanian with mostly 63/66 enhancements and only 2/4 on the set bonus. Skill crits were pretty much in-line with my crit chance (19%). There are plenty other parses that can be found in a quick search of torparse.

 

As far as real fights are concerned, there are several fights where combat will shine over watchman. Titan 6 and Olok the shadow were already mentioned and are perfect examples. In TFB, I submit Operator IX (depending on how your group does part 1, at least).

[KnightGreg]

People who say that combat isn't viable simply haven't adapted to the changes properly. Before 2.0, combat had a very clear rotation. That is no longer the case. The best way to describe it now is a fuzzy priority system. No longer is it about timing your Master Strike, Blade Storm, Zen and Precision slash to always line up with each other. Instead combat is much more chaotic, and I encourage you to spend time on a dummy getting used to the different situations that arise and how best to use your skills.

 

Here is an example dummy parse clipped at roughly 5 minutes. Gear was a roughly even mix of underworld and arkanian with mostly 63/66 enhancements and only 2/4 on the set bonus. Skill crits were pretty much in-line with my crit chance (19%). There are plenty other parses that can be found in a quick search of torparse.

 

I saw you use Cauterize in your rotation. I've always thought it was more or less useless and I've heard mixed statements on the Forums on whether or not Combat Sents should use it. Can anyone provide a definitive as to whether or not it's actually useful?

[KnightGreg]

Also another question: Power or Strength Augs? I've heard Main Stat for everyone due to Crit still being useful even though stacking it in Mods and Enhancements is a waste of points. Edited May 9, 2013 by KnightGreg

[Ridickilis]

I saw you use Cauterize in your rotation. I've always thought it was more or less useless and I've heard mixed statements on the Forums on whether or not Combat Sents should use it. Can anyone provide a definitive as to whether or not it's actually useful?

 

Situational only. If you don't want to outright remove it, I would at least place it further away from your 'sweet spot' on your keybinds. I can't really think of any pve situation you'd want to use it at all. It's sometimes useful in pvp for dotting up stealth classes before they vanish on you, but that's about it.

 

It's a watchman staple ability.

[ZorusCilato]

I'm…a little unsure of where you're going with this. The highest parsing sentinels on my server are combat spec. The highest parsing sentinels on nearly *every* server are combat spec. Take a look at the torparse leaderboards for fights like HM Styrak. Here again, combat is holding its own.

 

I played Combat pretty extensively pre-2.0, and yes, I miss the old spec. Focus management used to be a lot easier, and the timing was more rigid. However, there is absolutely no question that post-2.0 Combat is unbelievably powerful. I hit 55 and parsed in my Dread Guard gear with Exotech biochem items at 2150, and each successive parse had been higher than the last (I think I might have been able to stretch to 2200 if I really pushed). Max geared Combat sentinels are able to push 2800. That sounds pretty viable to me.

 

Treat it like a new spec with a new rotation. Post-2.0 Combat is very different than it was before, but in no way is it gimped relative to the other sentinel specs.

 

 

I'm looking at TORparse and I see sentinels who use burning...that isn't combat spec, right?

[Olostur]

Situational only. If you don't want to outright remove it, I would at least place it further away from your 'sweet spot' on your keybinds. I can't really think of any pve situation you'd want to use it at all. It's sometimes useful in pvp for dotting up stealth classes before they vanish on you, but that's about it.

 

It's a watchman staple ability.

 

It's foolish not to use cauterize in combat. It's certainly very low on the priority list but dropping it is a DPS loss. Using my parse as an example, a single use of cauterize was worth an average of 4125 total damage (including the chance ataru hit). That's higher than Blade Rush (4165 but used often with Precision Slash) and Double Saber Throw (4213 also skewed by Precision Slash).

 

Generally speaking, I use it as filler when I don't have the Precision Slash buff, I don't need to refresh the Blade Rush buff, Master Strike is on cooldown, and Zealous Strike is on cooldown.

 

Also another question: Power or Strength Augs? I've heard Main Stat for everyone due to Crit still being useful even though stacking it in Mods and Enhancements is a waste of points.

 

I'm using strength, but when I chose them I was running watchman primarily and only calculated precisely for that spec. If you want a discussion on augments, there's argument all over these forums and bringing it here risks derailing the thread completely. I'll simply say that with my stats, moving from power to strength loses 0.99% bonus damage for 0.94% critical chance. Critical chance only affects about ~80% of your damage (subtract blade storm), but skill damage also doesn't change with power in a 1:1 ratio. With my stats it's between 0.4:1 and 0.6:1 for most skills.

 

In any case, the parse that I linked was in an incomplete build. I'm not even close to full underworld and still have some 63 enhancements. Getting the 4-piece bonus will also be a large upgrade. In the parse I linked, Zen was used once every 23 seconds, so assuming no coordination with Zen and Precision Slash, I estimate a lower bound of 2.6% more DPS (for that parse, add 74 DPS). In other words, expect combat to be able to go significantly higher.

 

For completeness, here are my 3 most recent parses, all in the same gear:

 

Watchman

Combat 1

Combat 2

 

Don't take them as top-end either. There are plenty on torparse that are higher. I just use them as a basis for talking about the two specs.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Olostur

[ML_DoubleTap]

I'm looking at TORparse and I see sentinels who use burning...that isn't combat spec, right?

 

He specifically mentioned Styrak, so I just looked at that fight and the very top ranked dps was a Combat Sentinel...didn't take me long to find one

 

Looked at the top Sentinel/Marauder for the Cartel Warlords fight...another Combat Spec.

 

Then i quit looking because I realized you must not have been looking that hard.

[TradeLA]

 

Here is an example dummy parse clipped at roughly 5 minutes. Gear was a roughly even mix of underworld and arkanian with mostly 63/66 enhancements and only 2/4 on the set bonus. Skill crits were pretty much in-line with my crit chance (19%). There are plenty other parses that can be found in a quick search of torparse.

 

As far as real fights are concerned, there are several fights where combat will shine over watchman. Titan 6 and Olok the shadow were already mentioned and are perfect examples. In TFB, I submit Operator IX (depending on how your group does part 1, at least).

 

That's a really strong parse, and I'm wondering how you're getting there. I'm in this gear, which is probably a little below yours:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/de2a614d-371d-4e55-98f4-054b5947adca

 

and got this parse on live with the two-piece bonus:

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/211194/time/1367803992/1367804322/0/Damage+Dealt

 

Using the GENERAL rotation discussed here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=628368

 

In my own experiments on the dummy, I haven't been able to get anywhere near as high as my results with a general rotation using any priority strategy...could you discuss in more detail what priority system you are using to get those results?

[Olostur]

That's a really strong parse, and I'm wondering how you're getting there. I'm in this gear, which is probably a little below yours:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...4-054b5947adca

 

and got this parse on live with the two-piece bonus:

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/211194/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

 

Using the GENERAL rotation discussed here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=628368

 

In my own experiments on the dummy, I haven't been able to get anywhere near as high as my results with a general rotation using any priority strategy...could you discuss in more detail what priority system you are using to get those results?

 

EDIT: I looked at skills more carefully today and also folded in the information in the thread that you linked, with this result.

 

In that parse, I got lucky with Dispatch crits and an average would probably be slightly lower, but then again crits on the rest of the skills were generally a bit low, so it's hard to be sure. Otherwise it seems like a pretty good representation. Here is the system I used:

 

I broke the combat rotation down into 4 sections: Precision Slash + Zen, Precision Slash, Zen, Nothing. In each of those cases, the ideal actions are different. I then made this diagram. In it you can see the relative Damage-per-Second and Damage-per-Focus of my skills. I included critical hits, misses, defenses, mitigation and Ataru Form hits and calculated the average expected hit size. Specific values will vary based on gear, but I wouldn't expect the relative values to vary much. Note that Twin Saber Throw and Master Strike don't have a Damage-per-Focus value because they are free.

 

Based on the chart, I used the following method:

 

When spending the Precision Slash buff, I use the Damage-per-Second values rather than Damage-per-Focus to assign priorities. This is the burst phase. I can make up the focus later. I spend the buff with the following priority systems based on whether I have Zen or not:

 

Zen is up:

1) Blade Storm, Dispatch, Blade Rush x2 (order flexible)

2) Blade Storm, Blade Rush x3 (order flexible)

3) Dispatch, Blade Rush x3 (order flexible)

4) Blade Rush x4

* Substitute Twin Saber Throw for Blade Rush if out of focus.

 

Zen is not up:

1) Blade Storm, Dispatch, Blade Rush (order flexible)

2) Master Strike > Blade Storm

3) Master Strike > Dispatch

4) Blade Storm, Blade Rush x2 (order flexible)

5) Master Strike > Blade Rush

6) Dispatch, Blade Rush x2 (order flexible)

7) Blade Rush x3

* Substitute Twin Saber Throw for Blade Rush if out of focus

 

There are enough Blade Rush uses in the above that I will usually have proc'ed the reset at this point. If not, I'll throw out another few Blade Rushes. When I reset Precision Slash, I repeat the above.

 

Between the rounds of Precision Slash, the goal is to recover the focus spent and be sure there is enough for the next round. I interleave focus spenders and builders with the general goal of being over ~7 focus when Precision Slash is back (more if I won't have Master Strike for either use of the buff). I spend more if Zealous Strike is about to come up. For skill priorities, I use the Damage-per-Focus numbers, yielding the following priority systems:

 

Zen is not up:

- Blade Storm (more than 1 GCD left on Precision Slash's cooldown)

- Dispatch

- Cauterize

- Master Strike (more than 2 GCD's left on Precision Slash's cooldown)

- Blade Rush

- Twin Saber Throw

 

Zen is up:

- Blade Storm (more than 1 GCD left on Precision Slash's cooldown)

- Dispatch

- Cauterize

- Blade Rush

- Twin Saber Throw

 

 

General points:

 

- I don't delay Blade Storm by more than 1 GCD. If it doesn't line up with the first Precision Slash, it will line up with the second one when I proc the reset.

 

- I don't delay Master Strike more than 2 GCD's for the same reason. Delaying it to line up with a current Precision Slash changes the timing of all future uses which may not line up with their own Precision Slashes anymore, and given the chaotic nature of the reset proc it is hard to predict accurately. All I end up doing by delaying is reducing the total number of skill uses.

 

- I don't time Zen around heavy hitters. I want to use it as frequently as possible. If I end up using it to spam focus builders right before Precision Slash comes up, so be it. That just means I was able to spend more time prior using focus spenders. I use it as often as possible. This will be even more important with the 4/4 set bonus. Because it no longer reduces your focus costs, it becomes less of a burst DPS skill and more of a way to increase your overall actions per minute. When it lines up with Precision Slash, great. When it doesn't, just use it. Misusing Zen as a strictly DPS skill is one reason why some people have so much trouble with focus management.

 

- For my opener, I use Force Leap > Zealous Strike > Precision Slash + Zen > Blade Rush spam (+ Blade Storm if I get the proc) > Precision Slash > Master Strike > Dispatch/Blade Storm (based on Blade Storm's cooldown & autocrit proc). If you aren't worried about the tank ripping out your throat, instead of just Zen use Relic+Adrenal+Zen+Valorous Call+Inspiration.

 

The above is the result of another day of tweaking my spec. Discussion is still welcome. I'm sure more can be squeezed out of Combat with further work!

Edited May 13, 2013 by Olostur
Better Information

[TradeLA]

Thanks for the reply. Great work! I haven't even seen a sniper/gunslinger parse that high on live.

 

I guess it really comes down to where the priority of proccing Execute and Slaughter comes in relation to squeezing off the highest value attacks as soon as they come off cooldown. Also, how to simplify the priority or rotation, because while one might work best against the dummy, the more complex it is, the more difficult it is to maintain in combat when dealing with all the other factors. I'm not sure if even against the dummy I could make the on-the-fly calculations as well as you can, but I will give it a try. I assume you keybind? What bindings do you use?

 

Also on live, I took Twin Saber Throw out of my rotation because someone in that previous thread observed it's damage was lower than Massacre. But I don't think that's true in practice, and the fact that Twin Saber Throw is free makes it the better option.

 

Rupture/Cauterize does more damage than Massacre/Blade Rush, but Massacre/Blade Rush has a much higher chance of proccing execute and slaughter. For that reason I've only used it selectively, but you seem to be getting great results just using a straight priority, so I'll have to rethink my strategy.

 

Thanks again for sharing. I assume anyone following this thread by now has come to the conclusion that Bioware does not hate Combat. It just seems that it is complex enough that not everyone will choose the class and dominate the other classes. Without using some kind of strong priority or rotation system, Combat/Carnage does considerably less damage that the other classes, so one person might be getting 2800-2900, while another will get 2200-2300 with the same gear.

[arkitip]

I wish it were still worth it to me to play my Marauder, but micro managing all the aspects of Carnage plus dealing with the tight timing windows just don't make it as enjoyable to me.

 

Of course, hitting a 2865 parse on my Juggernaut also helped make the decision easier to handle.

[Olostur]

All excellent points. With regard to a few of them:

 

I guess it really comes down to where the priority of proccing Execute and Slaughter comes in relation to squeezing off the highest value attacks as soon as they come off cooldown. Also, how to simplify the priority or rotation, because while one might work best against the dummy, the more complex it is, the more difficult it is to maintain in combat when dealing with all the other factors. I'm not sure if even against the dummy I could make the on-the-fly calculations as well as you can, but I will give it a try. I assume you keybind? What bindings do you use?

There is definitely some tension there, but I don't ignore the timing on the Precision Slash proc completely either. For one thing, every use of the Precision slash buff includes at least one Blade Rush and most include several, which makes it very likely that the reset will proc by itself. If it doesn't, I spend a few GCD's doing Blade Rushes to try to get the reset, but if it takes too long then I return to the priority system to get my focus back up for when Precision Slash comes off cooldown naturally. In other words, your rotation and my priorities end up having a similar result.

 

Remember that after you consume your second Precision Slash, it *cannot* be reset immediately. Assuming 1 GCD of delay after it resets, you have 10 GCD's after consuming it where you know you won't get the proc, so no tension exists. Generally speaking, you don't have to worry about proc'ing the reset until Precision Slash comes off cooldown again. Until then the priority system is everything.

 

There's no question that Combat is a lot more complicated than it use to be. No longer is it the simple spec with a nicely timed rotation. I think it's nice to have at least one of the specs have high depth. A lot of performance will just come down to endless repetition and building muscle memory. I try to keep track of common groups of skills, or ways that I often spend a set of several GCD's at different points. Even so, all my parses have multiple mistakes by way of the priorities I outlined, and that's not likely to change soon lol. And yes, everything is keybound. All motion is on the mouse and then I treat my skills like keys on an organ keyboard, with two rows, both of which can be modified by the 'Alt' key.

 

Also on live, I took Twin Saber Throw out of my rotation because someone in that previous thread observed it's damage was lower than Massacre. But I don't think that's true in practice, and the fact that Twin Saber Throw is free makes it the better option.

EDIT: I must have been tweaking when I first wrote this. Yes, Blade Rush is slightly more damage (and I mean slightly - see my chart from before). But as you pointed out, Twin Saber Throw is more efficient on focus, being free. Therefore, as you see in my above priority system, I prioritize Blade Rush higher during a Precision Slash burn (want to maximize DPS under the buf), but I'll use Twin Saber Throw first during my filler when both Precision Slash and the reset proc are on cooldown.

 

Rupture/Cauterize does more damage than Massacre/Blade Rush, but Massacre/Blade Rush has a much higher chance of proccing execute and slaughter. For that reason I've only used it selectively, but you seem to be getting great results just using a straight priority, so I'll have to rethink my strategy.

I don't think you have to rethink your strategy. Just remember that the Precision Slash reset will almost always be on its internal cooldown. After you reset it and use it, for about 15 seconds the proc isn't a concern anymore and Cauterize is a fantastic skill.

 

Thanks again for sharing. I assume anyone following this thread by now has come to the conclusion that Bioware does not hate Combat. It just seems that it is complex enough that not everyone will choose the class and dominate the other classes. Without using some kind of strong priority or rotation system, Combat/Carnage does considerably less damage that the other classes, so one person might be getting 2800-2900, while another will get 2200-2300 with the same gear.

Thank you for the discussion. It's great to bounce ideas back and forth. Your thoughts on maximizing the Precision Slash reset were great and definitely improved my DPS. You're very right about the range of DPS people will see with the spec.

 

I wish it were still worth it to me to play my Marauder, but micro managing all the aspects of Carnage plus dealing with the tight timing windows just don't make it as enjoyable to me.

 

Of course, hitting a 2865 parse on my Juggernaut also helped make the decision easier to handle.

That's fair. Then again, remember armor rends. At these DPS levels a rend will be worth 1-200 DPS. Have to take that into account when looking at Jug, Merc and Sniper parses. Combat strikes me as a big investment, big reward spec.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Olostur
Precision

[Ausgelebt]

Combat Sentinel not viable? This must be a joke. Parsing 2500s without 69 hilts and ****.

[skincarver]

 

Combat is not meant to be a viable spec.

 

 

Tell that to all of the whiners on the PvP forums that are saying combat sent is OP'd.

[Aurojiin]

Zen is not up:

1) Blade Storm, Dispatch, Blade Rush (order flexible)

2) Master Strike > Blade Storm

3) Master Strike > Dispatch

4) Blade Storm, Blade Rush x2 (order flexible)

5) Dispatch, Blade Rush x2 (order flexible)

6) Blade Rush x3

* Substitute Twin Saber Throw for Blade Rush if out of focus

Just one possibility I see missing: Master Strike > Blade Rush. I believe it should be between 3 and 4, as your best option if you have MS up but no Dispatch or Opportune Attack.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Aurojiin

[Olostur]

Just one possibility I see missing: Master Strike > Blade Rush. I believe it should be between 3 and 4, as your best option if you have MS up but no Dispatch or Opportune Attack.

 

You're right, I forgot it. Added & ty Surprisingly, Blade Storm + Blade Rushx2 is actually more damage than Master Strike > Blade Rush, so I put it as option #5. That said, it's a moot point because if you're choosing between the two, it means you can use Master Strike > Blade Storm anyway lol.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Olostur

[seektravota]

It's foolish not to use cauterize in combat. It's certainly very low on the priority list but dropping it is a DPS loss. Using my parse as an example, a single use of cauterize was worth an average of 4125 total damage (including the chance ataru hit). That's higher than Blade Rush (4165 but used often with Precision Slash) and Double Saber Throw (4213 also skewed by Precision Slash).

 

Generally speaking, I use it as filler when I don't have the Precision Slash buff, I don't need to refresh the Blade Rush buff, Master Strike is on cooldown, and Zealous Strike is on cooldown.

 

 

 

I'm using strength, but when I chose them I was running watchman primarily and only calculated precisely for that spec. If you want a discussion on augments, there's argument all over these forums and bringing it here risks derailing the thread completely. I'll simply say that with my stats, moving from power to strength loses 0.99% bonus damage for 0.94% critical chance. Critical chance only affects about ~80% of your damage (subtract blade storm), but skill damage also doesn't change with power in a 1:1 ratio. With my stats it's between 0.4:1 and 0.6:1 for most skills.

 

In any case, the parse that I linked was in an incomplete build. I'm not even close to full underworld and still have some 63 enhancements. Getting the 4-piece bonus will also be a large upgrade. In the parse I linked, Zen was used once every 23 seconds, so assuming no coordination with Zen and Precision Slash, I estimate a lower bound of 2.6% more DPS (for that parse, add 74 DPS). In other words, expect combat to be able to go significantly higher.

 

For completeness, here are my 3 most recent parses, all in the same gear:

 

Watchman

Combat 1

Combat 2

 

Don't take them as top-end either. There are plenty on torparse that are higher. I just use them as a basis for talking about the two specs.

 

what weapon are you using for those parses? 69? 72?

[Jayshames]

When Marauders/Sentinels were FoTM, no one who played them thought they were OP, now they get a little nerf (if at all) and threads appear. lolski padolski

[Ramtar]

Bioware hates Sentinel/Mauarder period.

[Ausgelebt]

Bioware hates Sentinel/Mauarder period.

 

 

Don't be hating, I am far from being BiS geared or a top-end player and I am parsing 2650 to 2770. This with BiS relic and Mainhand missing and only 3x 72 part..

 

Sentinel/Marauder is such a strong class. Can keep up with the top-dps dealers, has a 15% dmg increase for whole group(I can't stress this enough, this can make you kill a boss or not), has a movement speed and def increase for whole group, has pacify, rebuke, shield guard thingy, 99% bubble for 6 seconds

Edited May 20, 2013 by Ausgelebt