Viability of Pyro PT

[Brunner_Venda]

I'm still trying to figure out why rebounder was taken from the pyro tree. It was the one really good defense we had, and they put it into AP.

 

Everyone complains about the damage nerf, but the nerf to defenses is even worse.

 

Don't get me started on the stupid kolto overload skill. It only works at holding around 30% health, but it can't prevent a 10k smash from just outright killing you. It was probably better before BW tried to 'fix' it.

[Aetrus]

I'm still trying to figure out why rebounder was taken from the pyro tree. It was the one really good defense we had, and they put it into AP.

 

Everyone complains about the damage nerf, but the nerf to defenses is even worse.

 

Yeah that's the thing, even if BW gave Pyro back the 1.7 burst, we'd still be average. Worst defenses out of any class combined with all the new burst other classes got means you'll still drop before they do.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Aetrus

[Sardonyyx]

And you go to every DPS PT thread and rehearse the same speech then back down when anyone asks you anything specific. It was AP threads before and now you've moved onto the Pyro ones, too? So, let's see screenshots of this incredible Pyro play of yours. What server do you play on? How many rateds have you done? Why should anyone take you seriously without any credentials to back you up?

 

I've just put him on ignore. He's just a troll who's trying too hard to troll.

[Sardonyyx]

no no no no, its not that they do not have anything good, its that they are not stupid simple faceroll skilless burst anymore. The class is not dumbarse friendly so you actually have to know what you are doing...

 

you go to EVERY class forums and EVERYONE claims the class is not "viable" what it is, is nothing more then bad players complaining that they cannot lean on some broken or overpowered mechanic to make them feel like they are a good player.

 

 

 

Omg you're so stupid. Seriously...THE CLASS GOT NERFED YOU DUMBARSE. Did you not notice? Because I sure as hell did. AGAIN NOTHING HAS CHANGED ABOUT THE WAY THE PT IS PLAYED, NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY. THEY NERFED IT. No bad or good player can change that. You're not arguing anything, no facts, no points, and the community obviously hates you. So do EVERYONE a favor and unsub, and stop posting on here unless you're going to provide facts or support to your empty *** argument.

 

 

One more time thoug so you can understand NOTHING HAS CHANGED EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT WE DON'T DO NEAR AS MUCH DAMAGE ANY MORE. that's what we're saying, thats what we've BEEN saying, but you can't understand that. So I've determined, that you are either a high school kid that has no idea what you're talking about, or just a lonely troll. Either way, get off these forums.that would make me, and everyone else happier.

[Chickensevil]

Omg you're so stupid. Seriously...THE CLASS GOT NERFED YOU DUMBARSE. Did you not notice? Because I sure as hell did. AGAIN NOTHING HAS CHANGED ABOUT THE WAY THE PT IS PLAYED, NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY. THEY NERFED IT. No bad or good player can change that. You're not arguing anything, no facts, no points, and the community obviously hates you. So do EVERYONE a favor and unsub, and stop posting on here unless you're going to provide facts or support to your empty *** argument.

 

 

One more time thoug so you can understand NOTHING HAS CHANGED EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT WE DON'T DO NEAR AS MUCH DAMAGE ANY MORE. that's what we're saying, thats what we've BEEN saying, but you can't understand that. So I've determined, that you are either a high school kid that has no idea what you're talking about, or just a lonely troll. Either way, get off these forums.that would make me, and everyone else happier.

 

AHAAHAHA, right after you said you ignore him, you feed him. I find this amusing. Although I may still not think we are nearly as bad in PVE as everyone is saying, I can agree that we do need some fixes. And I never understood the argument that our class is "easy" to play, like that is somehow different from all the other classes that are just as equally easy... I think there might be ONE class out there that take any real button pressing skills.

 

What does separate the good from the great, is heat management, and timing of you other abilities... also learning the fights to the point where you anticipate certain movements and phases so you are limiting your downtime thus increasing your DPS. I find that last one, one of the biggest factors in getting decent numbers or **** numbers. Seriously, even missing 1 or 2 GCDs from the start can set a bad streak for a poor run. But most of these things are not class specific, so... yeah...

 

Could be worse... this could be wow, were you dont have trees anymore, and everyone hits one button for dps...

[Brunner_Venda]

AHAAHAHA, right after you said you ignore him, you feed him. I find this amusing. Although I may still not think we are nearly as bad in PVE as everyone is saying, I can agree that we do need some fixes. And I never understood the argument that our class is "easy" to play, like that is somehow different from all the other classes that are just as equally easy... I think there might be ONE class out there that take any real button pressing skills..

 

PVE is probably okay for Pyro. No DPS and no spike = no threat generated in a heroic or operation. Nevermind that you'll be out-damaged by characters that are lower level and/or wearing less gear.

 

I don't think anyone's saying that you can't play a PT in PVE, it's just that every other class is better at it. If it's fun for you, then go for it. I still play an AP, even though it's inferior in every way to a sniper or sin. Just don't come here and try to tell us that it's actually not as bad as it is - because it's terribad.

[Chickensevil]

PVE is probably okay for Pyro. No DPS and no spike = no threat generated in a heroic or operation. Nevermind that you'll be out-damaged by characters that are lower level and/or wearing less gear.

 

I don't think anyone's saying that you can't play a PT in PVE, it's just that every other class is better at it. If it's fun for you, then go for it. I still play an AP, even though it's inferior in every way to a sniper or sin. Just don't come here and try to tell us that it's actually not as bad as it is - because it's terribad.

 

Well I don't have either of those issues, however I wasn't saying it was amazing... I said its not as bad as some people are making it out to be. Distinct difference. We are middle of the road in DPS. So CERTAIN classes beat us, but generally if you are a great player than you will carry your weight whether you are playing AP or Pyro, since both can clear the 1800 dps threshold required to down content quite easily. The way some make it sound like, you are somehow holding your group back and they are weaker for having you. If you can do 1800+ dps on each fight (not on the dummy because that doesn't matter) then you are good enough to down content and not hold your group back.

 

But as I have said, I see the issues, and can see the claim that we could use some buffs. Specifically when it comes to PVP, the good news is, if we get buffed in PVP (like we need to be) it will likely buff us a bit in Ops as well, which should put us in a very nice place.

 

Terribad would indicate that you are pulling like 1500 dps... the last time I pulled that low I was in 58s... so no... we are not bad... I can do the 1800 requirements, regardless of spec, in fully optimized 63s... so I'm sorry, you are just bad at playing this game if you are less than that.

[Brunner_Venda]

I actually went back to pyro for PVP to make an open minded comparison.

 

I ground out the comms for the eliminator four piece bonus (partisan).

 

Bottom line: I've managed to kill and damage much more because pyro can hit 7K rail crits easy. Bottom line: it melts faces. Meanwhile AP only rarely breaks the 5K mark on any one attack, but keeps up a steady stream of 2-4K damaging attacks.

 

The pyro PVP spec survivability is in the crapper. It's a terribad solo guarding class. I can only win 1v1 duels against other good players** with pyro when all of the defensive CD's are available - but we know that's rare. Energy shield is what? Two minutes without rebounder? Kolto only takes effect when you're already nearly dead, and we get one stim heal on a long CD. Still, when the CD's are up, I rarely lose. When they aren't? It's back to the base med center.

 

** I say 'good players', because I don't count the bad ones. We all beat down the bad players, the guys wearing old recruit relics and implants, the jugg who panics and runs after your opening rail-RP-rail combo takes half of their health, or the dude with all top notch PVE gear who doesn't understand why he melts with only 1500 bolstered expertise.

[Aetrus]

I actually went back to pyro for PVP to make an open minded comparison.

 

I ground out the comms for the eliminator four piece bonus (partisan).

 

Bottom line: I've managed to kill and damage much more because pyro can hit 7K rail crits easy. Bottom line: it melts faces. Meanwhile AP only rarely breaks the 5K mark on any one attack, but keeps up a steady stream of 2-4K damaging attacks.

 

The pyro PVP spec survivability is in the crapper. It's a terribad solo guarding class. I can only win 1v1 duels against other good players** with pyro when all of the defensive CD's are available - but we know that's rare.

 

Meh. I put up more damage in Pyro than in AP, but its never more than 100k difference. And most of that is DOT fluff. I might deal lets say 649k dmg in Pyro on 1 map, and then run AP on the same map and deal 580k. But there's no dots involved (except Retractable Blade, which I don't use for damage.) You have 1 high damaging attack in Pyro. In AP, you get 3 medium damaging ones, plus PFT which you can use on sage healers and other classes that love to stand still and free cast. Plus Shoulder Cannon actually deals damage in AP. And like you mentioned, AP's survivability is so much better its no contest there. IDK. Neither spec is viable for rateds. Pyro dots will be cleansed and you have zero burst. In AP, you also have no burst, but at least you're a good duelist and node guarder. Pyro gets wrecked by any Carnage Mara worth his salt, as well as any Sniper.

 

Run TORParse for a WZ or two. It'll show you not only how much damage you dealt, but where that damage comes from listed as percentages. I'm pretty positive you'll find about 30% of your damage, especially with the full Pyro build, comes from DoTs. Pyro is like the Madness spec of pre2.0...totally worthless and nothing but fluff.

[Brunner_Venda]

I used to have a preference, now I really don't. You've seen me advocate here for both specs, jumping back and forth.

 

* When I get sick of being in the middle of the kills and damage stats, I go pyro. Then I always place first or second, and at least a 20%-25% difference in damage up from AP.

 

* When I'm sick of dying so much and riding the med center merry-go-round, I go back AP.

 

It also depends on how I want to play:

 

*AP can solo guard, capture objectives, and hold territory. AP can get anywhere you need or want to be, it's best for running a huttball, capturing a node, planting the bomb, or peeling the huttball runner. When you're focused you can usually survive it long enough to escape. AP is best at objective play, but don't expect to rack up the kills with it. The DPS delivery is slower with fewer spikes.

 

* Pyro turns the tide of battles when I show up with it. I melt the enemies in the middle in huttball, and get the ball to the fast runners and leapers. It kills people at the door or objective, but it can't survive if you actually try to capture anything yourself (pyro lasts for three seconds when focused).

 

Ideally I'd like to either see AP with slightly more burst, or pyro with a few more/shorter defensive CD's

Edited May 29, 2013 by Brunner_Venda

[Herbzta]

just take a look here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=636466

 

highest dps

PT: 1425 - Mara 2589

[Hizoka]

just take a look here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=636466

 

highest dps

PT: 1425 - Mara 2589

 

go to torparse.com and check the dummy for just powertechs the highest dummy parse for powertech in the US was put up be my as full AP, and that was 2742 DPS

 

I actually have the highest parse in the US for every hard mode S&V fight with exception of Orlok for powertech and i play full AP.

 

People keep saying AP is crap yet no-one is posting parses better then mine on real boss fights in the US

Edited May 29, 2013 by Hizoka

[Aetrus]

go to torparse.com and check the dummy for just powertechs the highest dummy parse for powertech in the US was put up be my as full AP, and that was 2742 DPS

 

I actually have the highest parse in the US for every hard mode S&V fight with exception of Orlok for powertech and i play full AP.

 

People keep saying AP is crap yet no-one is posting parses better then mine on real boss fights in the US

 

Not gonna lie, that's kind of sexy. Aaand as you've probably gathered from this thread and others, I think AP is much better than Pyro (although that was pertaining to PvP.) However, those parses of yours are 300-500 DPS behind Maras/Snipers on the ops dummy, and up to 1k DPS behind (*** Dash'roode fight) maras/snipers on actual bosses in S&V while bringing less utility to the table. And looking at the title of this thread, I think we can safely conclude the answer is 'zero.' With maybe AP coming in at a maybe 4/10 clip?

 

 

EDIT: Nvm about the 1k DPS with the mara in the Dash'roode fight - realized he was Smash. Sort of explains it.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Aetrus

[Hizoka]

Not gonna lie, that's kind of sexy. Aaand as you've probably gathered from this thread and others, I think AP is much better than Pyro (although that was pertaining to PvP.) However, those parses of yours are 300-500 DPS behind Maras/Snipers on the ops dummy, and up to 1k DPS behind (*** Dash'roode fight) maras/snipers on actual bosses in S&V while bringing less utility to the table. And looking at the title of this thread, I think we can safely conclude the answer is 'zero.' With maybe AP coming in at a maybe 4/10 clip?

 

 

EDIT: Nvm about the 1k DPS with the mara in the Dash'roode fight - realized he was Smash. Sort of explains it.

if you look the snipers and maras doing that kind of damage we exploiting the relic bug that got fixed today. When you cheat of course you will get high hunters... having the ability to proc 1200 power when others can only get at most 500 will throw numbers off.... Its sad that so many fail to realize that when someone is cheating it will throw off numbers. When someone uses something that is broken it doesn't make every other class underpowered it makes them exploiters.

 

And if you look as my Dash log the boss died nearly 25 seconds before combat ended, and i still did more then any other powertech.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Hizoka

[dcgregorya]

For PVE both are fine. The issues in question (range, cleanses, energy costs, burst) are all PVP only problems. You don't need to DoT multiple people very often in PVE. You don't need to typically burst either. And bosses don't use cleanses. And removing the CD reduction on the 25% damage redux isn't really an issue for a boss fight.

 

IMHO all the problems are PVP related and in that scenario you've got two specs (AP and Pyro), AP has nice survivability but PFT is misguided, Pyro itself is the worst DoT spec in the game for PVP hands down, which is a shame.

Edited May 30, 2013 by dcgregorya