The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 07: Darth Maul vs. Asajj Ventress

[Selenial]

This is your own interpretation there is a mountain of evidence that tells us Sidious would kill Maul just as quickly as he killed Kolar, Tiin and Fisto.

 

Maul even said so himself, When sidious abandoned him on a desolate planet, then came back and told him it was a test...

Maul went crazy, bit sidious' hand and spat blood in his face...

Then thought to himself, how foolish he had been to not realise the magnitude of Sidious' power, how he could never hope to defeat him... And how he hoped sidious would kill him quickly, and mercifully...

[Beniboybling]

Maul even said so himself, When sidious abandoned him on a desolate planet, then came back and told him it was a test...

Maul went crazy, bit sidious' hand and spat blood in his face...

Then thought to himself, how foolish he had been to not realise the magnitude of Sidious' power, how he could never hope to defeat him... And how he hoped sidious would kill him quickly, and mercifully...

Again he was severely weakened. And TCW seems to contradict that (which is a higher level of canon) because like it or not that sigh of exhaustion can only be interpreted one way. We can't ignore it.

[Selenial]

Again he was severely weakened. And TCW seems to contradict that (which is a higher level of canon) because like it or not that sigh of exhaustion can only be interpreted one way. We can't ignore it.

 

I always interpreted the sidious-maul duel differently, I always saw it as sidious... Playing with his food

His goal was to break maul, for some unknown purpose, not to kill him.

You can't break someone without crushing their spirit, and what better way than give them hope, just to rip it away?

[Beniboybling]

I always interpreted the sidious-maul duel differently, I always saw it as sidious... Playing with his food

His goal was to break maul, for some unknown purpose, not to kill him.

You can't break someone without crushing their spirit, and what better way than give them hope, just to rip it away?

I think this is more interpretation that what I'm suggesting. I think at the very end, when Sidious shocked him with lightining, that was spirit breaking. But before that? It was just a duel. I mean, this is how Wookiee inteprets it and I agree:

 

Both brothers tried to outmaneuver Sidious by attacking from his front and flank, which tired Sidious. Taking the chance with that pause, Maul attempted to finish the duel with an overhead slam, but Sidious used the Force to push Maul into the stairs, where he suffered a blow to the head and temporarily blacked out. Sidious was now free to focus on defeating the hulking Opress. Opress charged with his lightsaber, but Sidious, with lightsabers disengaged, merely toyed with the Zabrak as he dodged a few reckless strikes. As Sidious activated his blades and locked with Savage, he struck at full velocity. As Maul awoke, Sidious paralyzed the Zabrak's arms with well-placed kicks before impaling him with both lightsabers, while sneering and cackling at a horrified Maul...

 

...Enraged, Maul ignited the darksaber and engaged Sidious once again. For a while, his use of Jar'Kai allowed him to hold his own against the elder Sith until the two entered a bladelock. Sidious overpowered Maul and forced his blades down towards the hilts of Maul's sabers, before forcing them apart and away.

And, for the sake of argument, I think we should adopt this interpretation as canon. Its a purely objective look at the battle without taking into account previous or post martial prowess, abilities etc. which would color one's view of events.

 

Because, really, there is no evidence to suggest in that duel that Sidious was playing with Maul. Other than a gleeful cackle, although that's evident in all his duels and its not exactly as if Sidious expected to lose. He wasn't holding back though.

[Selenial]

Wikis are objective? :/

I'd like to add, we all know sidious would have destroyed maul easily if he wanted to, using merely the force... I think the reason he didn't was to toy with maul, hence the theory...

[Beniboybling]

Wikis are objective? :/

I'd like to add, we all know sidious would have destroyed maul easily if he wanted to, using merely the force... I think the reason he didn't was to toy with maul, hence the theory...

Perhaps he wished to test his skill on something like what your saying, but it would seem that Sidious underestimated his opponent as he tired and then resorted to Force powers (which he could have done before) to knock Maul out.

 

And yes, Wiki's I'd assume are objective, given that opinionated articles on Wookieepedia are flagged and edited. (I believe the quote is 'In my opinion the Jedi are evil!') It is kinda their job.

[ZahirS]

Perhaps he wished to test his skill on something like what your saying, but it would seem that Sidious underestimated his opponent as he tired and then resorted to Force powers (which he could have done before) to knock Maul out.

 

And yes, Wiki's I'd assume are objective, given that opinionated articles on Wookieepedia are flagged and edited. (I believe the quote is 'In my opinion the Jedi are evil!') It is kinda their job.

 

True ben,i but from watching the video you posted earlier Sideous also wins lightsaber combat against Maul, when they cross the lightsabers, also Sideous is no benchmark only Yoda lasted him a while.

Edited May 8, 2013 by ZahirS

[Aurbere]

I think it's about time to move into the final phase of this debate. Time to make your final arguments.

[Beniboybling]

I think I've made all the points I can, but a revised scenario:

 

Ventress and Maul engage in a lightsaber duel, Ventress attempts to penetrate Maul's defenses with acrobatics and Force speed but is unable to penetrate Maul's impeccable defense. Maul quickly pushes the offense we a short burst of flurries then knocks away her second blade with a kick. However Ventress quickly responds with a Force grip and flings he against a pillar, retrieves her lightsaber and charges him. Maul responds with a Force push and resumes the offensive and Ventress is ultimately defeated.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

I think I've made all the points I can, but a revised scenario:

 

Ventress and Maul engage in a lightsaber duel, Ventress attempts to penetrate Maul's defenses with acrobatics and Force speed but is unable to penetrate Maul's impeccable defense. Maul quickly pushes the offense we a short burst of flurries then knocks away her second blade with a kick. However Ventress quickly responds with a Force grip and flings he against a pillar, retrieves her lightsaber and charges him. Maul responds with a Force push and resumes the offensive and Ventress is ultimately defeated.

If kenobi can halve Mauls saber, Ventress can.

And i doubt she'd be affected much by his force push, her grip would be far stronger.

[mefit]

I think I've made all the points I can, but a revised scenario:

 

Ventress and Maul engage in a lightsaber duel, Ventress attempts to penetrate Maul's defenses with acrobatics and Force speed but is unable to penetrate Maul's impeccable defense. Maul quickly pushes the offense we a short burst of flurries then knocks away her second blade with a kick. However Ventress quickly responds with a Force grip and flings he against a pillar, retrieves her lightsaber and charges him. Maul responds with a Force push and resumes the offensive and Ventress is ultimately defeated.

 

Agreed

 

If kenobi can halve Mauls saber, Ventress can.

And i doubt she'd be affected much by his force push, her grip would be far stronger.

This is why I did not reply to you ,I did not want a all out argument with you as you and a few others will never admit to anything so its not worth the fight . I read your post , some I like some I do not .

As for this , pure speculation what you just said and is outright wroung .

 

 

Starting to feel like this was just a pro Ventress thread which to me hurts her character more as she is being stated wrong .

 

Still waiting on the source people are gathering anything about Ventress power or skill wise . Being Maul is literally in many Guilds and Sources books since EP 1 was released .

I would like to see where people are gathering she has any LightSaber Mastery .

 

She runs in most fights , never standing her ground .

She would run if she could and if she couldn't she would die .

 

This is according to her character to date , not fortelling the future !

 

At this point I will no longer reply in a vs fight were speculation is ruling over Canon Facts . As anyone would do in a Revan vs fight where people were SPECULATING about Revan.

Edited May 9, 2013 by mefit

[ZahirS]

Ventress is a well defined character don't know why people think she is not.

 

Second, she is a full blown Sith apprentice to Dooku, she knows dun moch, Maul was trained to be a Sith Assasin, that is a vast difference its like comparing a Imperial royal guard to a Sith.

 

Third, Ventress would probably use two lightsabers which gives her the edge in lightsaber combat.

[mefit]

Ventress is a well defined character don't know why people think she is not.

Where ? Source ?

Second, she is a full blown Sith apprentice to Dooku, she knows dun moch, Maul was trained to be a Sith Assasin, that is a vast difference its like comparing a Imperial royal guard to a Sith.

Where you get this ? Both Comics , Books and TCW Dooku has never stated as much and in the TCW which is Cannon he states she was never his Apprentice !

Third, Ventress would probably use two lightsabers which gives her the edge in lightsaber combat.

Where you get that ? Totally not true and lets not forget Mual is able to Duel Wield as well as he is a master of more than one form of Lightsaber Combat .

 

More Speculation again . Maul's Brother was considered more powerful than her and more worthy by Dooku , not to mention Sidious went to maul to handle him personally because he considered him more a issue than Ventress .

 

I think the most powerful Sithlord of all time knows better than anyone posting Pro Ventress in this fight period .

[Aurbere]

mefit, I already posted why Ventress is a skilled duelist. Here it is again.

 

Asajj Ventress was a master of Jar'Kai and took up the style after the death of her master, Ky Narec, taking up his lightsaber alongside her own

 

Ventress developed her skills under Dooku's tutelage, applying her skills in dual-blade combat to Makashi

 

She's a master of Jar'Kai dual-wielding and trained in Makashi by Count Dooku.

[Aurbere]

Also mefit, Sidious has acknowledged Ventress' skill as being impressive.

 

"The child's skill with a lightsaber are most impressive. You have found a promising disciple, my apprentice. She shall serve us well."

 

"She may have deluded herself into believing she was Tyranus's apprentice, especially after he bestowed upon her a pair of lightsabers that had once belonged to Dooku's last Padawan, Komari Vosa. Perhaps Ventress deserved them, for she was a capable warrior

 

Yes, Darth Sidious went to deal with Maul personally, but that doesn't change the fact that he acknowledged Ventress as an impressive warrior.

[LadyKulvax]

I think her mocking will send Maul off the edge and whilst that gives power, i doubt it would be anything close to overwhelming for her and all it would do would make Maul arrogant and easy to trick.

 

Ventress has faced off against the best Form V duellist ever and not just stood her ground but beat him down repeatedly, Maul's Juyo is going to give him no advantage form to form, which is why I think her Makashi could hold her ground against almost anything he threw at her, if she does get in danger, she can jump higher and run faster than he can, to regroup and pull him into yet another trap, presumably the star fighter dock.

 

It is in the docking station where her highly skilled abilities with Telekinesis will come into clear play, not only will he be busy having to fight her off blade to blade, Maul will also have to deal with numerous ships, droids and parts being flung at him.

 

Again, she can use her abilities to avoid detection which she has used in multiple engagements with even Jedi High Council members and affect his mind into walking right into any trap she sets, she can repeatedly make hit and run attacks, mixing in inanimate objects and even better she can force grip him very easily due to how weak his force barriers are, something I think Sidious did intentionally during his training so that if the case ever arrived where he had to kill Maul quickly, Maul wouldn't stand a chance.

 

To me the clear winner here is Ventress, Maul MAY have superior duelling skills, but I have still not heard anything concrete that tells me he overwhelms her face to face, that is really the only area in which he might have a slight advantage in, where force abilities, mentality and manipulation come in, Maul is blown aside quite clear by comparison.

 

Ventress can not only hold her own, she can manipulate her environment to her own advantage and make him do some seriously idiotic things pretty easily through the combination of her skillful Dun Moch/Affect Mind technique and his to be blunt arrogance and lack of emotional control.

[ZahirS]

to mefit.

 

"Master, I need your help quickly. I am surrounded."

"You have already lost the battle, child. I've ordered your reinforcements to return.'"

"No! I will destroy the Jedi. I'll show you!"

"You have failed me for the last time. You are no longer my apprentice. And now, you shall die."

―Asajj Ventress is betrayed by Count Dooku during the Battle of Sullust

 

Asajj Ventress was deluded by been an apprentices but she was part of dark acolytes of Dooku, she knew dun moch and possibly was a Sith. Dooku calls her apprentice tho.

Edited May 9, 2013 by ZahirS

[Beniboybling]

I think her mocking will send Maul off the edge and whilst that gives power, i doubt it would be anything close to overwhelming for her and all it would do would make Maul arrogant and easy to trick.

 

Ventress has faced off against the best Form V duellist ever and not just stood her ground but beat him down repeatedly, Maul's Juyo is going to give him no advantage form to form, which is why I think her Makashi could hold her ground against almost anything he threw at her, if she does get in danger, she can jump higher and run faster than he can, to regroup and pull him into yet another trap, presumably the star fighter dock.

 

It is in the docking station where her highly skilled abilities with Telekinesis will come into clear play, not only will he be busy having to fight her off blade to blade, Maul will also have to deal with numerous ships, droids and parts being flung at him.

 

Again, she can use her abilities to avoid detection which she has used in multiple engagements with even Jedi High Council members and affect his mind into walking right into any trap she sets, she can repeatedly make hit and run attacks, mixing in inanimate objects and even better she can force grip him very easily due to how weak his force barriers are, something I think Sidious did intentionally during his training so that if the case ever arrived where he had to kill Maul quickly, Maul wouldn't stand a chance.

 

To me the clear winner here is Ventress, Maul MAY have superior duelling skills, but I have still not heard anything concrete that tells me he overwhelms her face to face, that is really the only area in which he might have a slight advantage in, where force abilities, mentality and manipulation come in, Maul is blown aside quite clear by comparison.

 

Ventress can not only hold her own, she can manipulate her environment to her own advantage and make him do some seriously idiotic things pretty easily through the combination of her skillful Dun Moch/Affect Mind technique and his to be blunt arrogance and lack of emotional control.

Now this is interesting, as we are now applying feats to a battle situation.

 

If we are under the assumption that this battle takes place in the same place as the Duel on Naboo, then this is interesting. Firstly I doubt fighters will be coming and going given that this is a 'simulation' and nobody else is involved. Nonetheless the hangar will be populated with fighters, pipes, panels, barrels etc. plenty of projectiles. And if we lookie here, there are rows of fighters lining the walls which Ventress could jump up to and launch projectiles. I have to ask though: has Ventress ever lifted anything telekinetically before? Force pushes and grips are one thing, but moving large objects is another matter.

 

Nonetheless we have to remember that Maul is incredibly durable. Nothing short of exploding fuel canisters is going to deal any serious damage, what's that? There are fuel canisters in the hangar?

 

Also, and I'm no expert on the interior of Theed Palace, but its possible Ventress could 'flee', hide her presence with the Force and lure Maul into an elaborate trap - though of what nature I'm not sure. In fact if the duel doesn't begin in the hangar, she can lure him to it and into an explosive trap. Something like, I dunno, this?

 

And finally, I still believe Maul is excessively more skilled than Ventress in lightsaber combat - given what we no about their levels of 'mastery' its effectively canon. So I stand by the fact that Ventress would lose a sustained duel, distraction and deception is the only way she can win.

[Aurbere]

Remember that the battle starts off in the Throne Room, which I should have made evident in the OP.

[Beniboybling]

Remember that the battle starts off in the Throne Room, which I should have made evident in the OP.

In such a case, I present the following scenario - on the basis that both combatants have a rudimentary knowledge of their complete surroundings, but no prior time to prepare - which only seems fair:

 

Ventress and Maul engage in a lightsaber duel in the throne room, Ventress attempts to penetrate Maul's defenses with acrobatics and Force speed but is unable to penetrate Maul's impeccable defense. Maul quickly pushes the offense we a short burst of flurries then knocks away her second blade with a kick.

 

Ventress, realizing she is outmatched, knocks Maul back with a Force push, retrieves her second lightsaber and 'flees' using Force speed to quickly disappear out of the throne room and use Quy'Tek to shroud her presence. Maul, who unlikely possesses enough skill in Force sense to detect her, is at a loss, only directed by Ventress' mental (and perhaps vocal) taunts and jibes.

 

Using Dun Moch, Ventress slowly enrages and frustrates Maul - reappearing and disappearing and generally leading him on a wild goose chase throughout the palace. This pursuit inevitably culminates at the Theed Hangar (which, given that not in operation will likely have lights off and doors closed i.e. dark) in which, still masking her presence and perched atop a fighter, Ventress continues to taunt. Launching projectiles at him from angles that confuse and frustrate him.

 

Then Ventress reveals herself, dropping down from the fighter and igniting her lightsabers. Maul comes rushing at her without hesitation in a pent up rage, at the last moment Ventress flips back over and behind some fuel canisters and cuts them open with her lightsaber. Then leaping clear she watches the fireworks.

 

Maul, despite his endurance of pain, will likely be heavily wounded or killed by such an explosion. And if the former is true Ventress will easily be able to dispatch with her lightsabers.

 

So in the end, Ventress wins. Told you I would come round... eventually.

[Aurbere]

Alright, well, if Beni has switched sides, then I suppose it may be time to call this one. Give me some time to mentally deliberate with myself.

 

Good job, everyone!

[Selenial]

Alright, well, if Beni has switched sides, then I suppose it may be time to call this one. Give me some time to mentally deliberate with myself.

 

Good job, everyone!

 

Im still not sure i believe my eyes...

 

Woo Rayla

Edited May 9, 2013 by Selenial

[LadyKulvax]

Woo Rayla

 

Honestly I didn't actually think Ventress would be chosen as the winner(If my assumption is correct), I was sure a legion of Darth maul's fans would smash down the doors and swamp the thread (it has happened before), but seemingly it hasn't.

 

But hey, girl power! female Dark Siders ftw.

Edited May 9, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

Im still not sure i believe my eyes...

 

Woo Rayla

Heh, I was a turncoat from the beginning...

I still have my reservations... suppose I'll pretend to argue Darth Maul and then have my points ROFLstomped by Selenial and be like 'oh no I've lost' join the other side and seize victory for Ventress!

Ventress FTW! (/Traya!)

[Wolfninjajedi]

Honestly I didn't actually think Ventress would be chosen as the winner(If my assumption is correct), I was sure a legion of Darth maul's fans would smash down the doors and swamp the thread (it has happened before), but seemingly it hasn't.

 

But hey, girl power! female Dark Siders ftw.

 

Well Maul while impressive, just hasn't done anything on the scale of Ventress at least up to TPM anyway the best he did there was kill Qui-Gon who wasn't in his prime anymore.

 

So when be the next match?

Edited May 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi