The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 07: Darth Maul vs. Asajj Ventress

[tunewalker]

Rayla makes a good point about Maul's saberstaff, which I will get to later.

 

In regard to the whole Maul's feats debate, I didn't really expect everyone to get hung up on this. Both sides make good points, but I would just like to add my two creds to the whole thing. It is highly likely that Maul's skills degraded or at least stagnated during his absence. Based upon his physical and mental state when Savage first encounters him, that is a fair possibility.

 

While the two incarnations of Maul are the same person, their fighting styles are drastically different. There can be no doubt that TPM Maul is skilled in both double-blade and single blade combat, but he primarily uses a double-blade. TCW Maul uses a single blade and Dun Moch. The change from the double-blade to the single blade and the addition of Dun Moch radically changes the way he fights.

 

So taking into consideration the above two paragraphs, it is not out of the question for Maul's TCW feats to be used for his TPM state. However, double-blade combat and single blade combat are very different styles. So while Maul's feats are credible, we should also remember that Maul is fighting differently in this particular scenario. Hope that makes sense.

 

Now back to Rayla's saberstaff argument. You are correct that Maul's saberstaff lacks the kinetic force that Juyo users can produce. In fact, it is very clear that Maul's style focuses on lightning fast attacks. However, while Maul isn't a power duelist, he has a solid defense.

 

I am confident that Maul could defend himself against Ventress' attacks. The only weak spot is his lightsaber hilt. However, resorting to single blade combat may actually help Maul as he would be able to use the more powerful and aggressive strikes of Juyo. Though the loss of his double-blade may be the beginning of the end.

 

Just want to quickly note that if it sounds like I am siding with anyone, point that out. I don't want to pick sides unless I have to.

 

I think people are largly forgetting the second part of Juyo when talking about the staff it wasn't just about kenetic strikes it was about fast short and unconnected attacks allowing for the most unpredictable aggressive style out there something that would just be taken to an extreme by a saber staff as it allows for different angles and even more unconnected and rapid fire attacks while the strength of the attacks will be lessened it will not be lessened to the same degree that the unpredictability and the speed of the attacks will be heightened by. The attacks will still have some kinetic value to them (not as much) but they will be faster and even more wild and unpredictable. this is why he chose the staff it has way more strengths to his style then it has weaknesses.

 

While ventress will not be overcome with the strength of the blows initially it will largly be the number of strong blows because even with a staff the blows will be moderately powerful especially when swung diagonally since most of his body weight will be thrown into such a blow it just means that some attack angles will not be possible or will be weaker but others will still be just as effective. and knowing mauls like for entrapping his opponent and juyo's unconnected and rapid nature with his staff I could very easily see Maul forcing her to unknowingly become more unguarded in one or more of the angles in which he can utilize a power attack.

Edited May 7, 2013 by tunewalker

[ZahirS]

I think people are largly forgetting the second part of Juyo when talking about the staff it wasn't just about kenetic strikes it was about fast short and unconnected attacks allowing for the most unpredictable aggressive style out there something that would just be taken to an extreme by a saber staff as it allows for different angles and even more unconnected and rapid fire attacks while the strength of the attacks will be lessened it will not be lessened to the same degree that the unpredictability and the speed of the attacks will be heightened by. The attacks will still have some kinetic value to them (not as much) but they will be faster and even more wild and unpredictable. this is why he chose the staff it has way more strengths to his style then it has weaknesses.

 

While ventress will not be overcome with the strength of the blows initially it will largly be the number of strong blows because even with a staff the blows will be moderately powerful especially when swung diagonally since most of his body weight will be thrown into such a blow it just means that some attack angles will not be possible or will be weaker but others will still be just as effective. and knowing mauls like for entrapping his opponent and juyo's unconnected and rapid nature with his staff I could very easily see Maul forcing her to unknowingly become more unguarded in one or more of the angles in which he can utilize a power attack.

 

While you point out the style of Maul double blade style which I agree, Ill add something:

 

Maul using double bladed saber has some impossibily in moves, his mobility is handicapped that is why he relied on kicks or dun monch, the duoble bladed technique has a very great weakness while you can hit from left to right or right to left, theres is always an opening and you have to keep ofenders in a defensive stance always.

 

And Ventress style is actually the best style against juyo strikes because it relies on economy of movement while using mobility to find an opening, it doesn't rely on strengh of the user.

 

Ventress also uses 2 single lightsaber while using both Makashi and Jar'kai, this combo is by far the best counter to Maul's tecnique even more than Ataru or Djem so.

 

I see the fight going:

 

Maul enters the fight using his 2 double bladed lightsaber and striking with intensity putting Ventress on the defensive until they reach a zone with limited space possibly a cat-walk, there Ventress using both her mobility and acrobatics to hit Maul's saber and break it half, to later overwhelm him with series of calculated blows that put him on the defensive and ending the duel with pretty much like in TPM maul defeated.

[Beniboybling]

While the two incarnations of Maul are the same person, their fighting styles are drastically different. There can be no doubt that TPM Maul is skilled in both double-blade and single blade combat, but he primarily uses a double-blade. TCW Maul uses a single blade and Dun Moch. The change from the double-blade to the single blade and the addition of Dun Moch radically changes the way he fights.

Very different yes, but one does not gain vast amounts of skill by switching to a blade form that they if anything should be less skilled in.

 

Also, we seem to be jumping to the conclusion that because Juyo cannot effectively exploit the weaknesses of Makashi that it cannot be defeated. This is not the case. Given the fact that Dooku (who wields Makashi) easily bested Ventress who also wields Makashi. I'm sure I can bring up many other examples of duelists being beaten by other duelists on the basis of skill rather than rock, paper, scissors.

 

So, while Juyo may not be paper to Makashi's rock it still stands that Maul is exceptionally more skilled that Ventress in lightsaber combat - on par with Dooku. Hence she will be soundly defeated. Futhermore if Ventress manages to cut Maul's lightsaber in half it will not be the beginning of the end. Much like Aurbere states it may in fact be a boon to his abilities as he will be free to unleash an aggressive flurry against his opponent, much like he did with Obi-Wan whom, as fellblade explained, he defeated. In this sense if the saberstaff isn't working, he'll switch to a single blade.

 

Dun Moch may be Ventress' only saving face here. But then again that depends on how she applies it, given that angering Maul will only bolster his Juyo, it could easily backfire.

 

And concerning Sidious vs Maul - Sidious 'plays' with everyone, he takes joy out of all his lightsaber duels and usually exists in a state of euphoria. Take the following, in his duel with Mace Windu, we can see him

Yet the novel seems to imply that in terms of lightsaber combat, the battle could have continued indefinitely - they were equally matched. Basically Sidious looking happy in battle doesn't seem to mean much. However Sidious does show evidence of being tired - not defeated, but he was going all out - he then resorts to force powers to end the duel. This would imply that Sidious was not holding back, which makes Maul's feats even more impressive given that 3 Jedi Council members and supposedly master duelists lasted a full five seconds against him. Whereas Maul's performance is almost on par with Windu's and Yoda's - see the correlation here? Maul is in a different league. I mean are we under the assumption that Ventress could do as good, if not better? Given her dismal performance tag-teaming with Oppress against Dooku I beg to differ.

 

Ventress on the other hand, wouldn't even be able to draw her lightsabers. Given her performance

 

And finally, can we have some evidence of Ventress' 'exceptional' power in the Force? Except when, empowered by rage and grief, she managed to strangle Obi and Anakin. A feat that Savage Oppress, in a similar fit of rage, has also performed? If Maul was pumped on rage he could likely do the same. Not that Force powers will win this duel, at best Ventress will chain a Force push into her lightsaber sequence, from which Maul will easily recover and is capable of responding in kind.[/color]

[ZahirS]

Juyo is weak against Makashi, styles are really paper, rock scissors its in Star Wars encyclopedia.

 

Makashi Ventress is weaker to Dooku, because Dooku is far better duelist than Ventress, while Ventress is no push over.

 

And Maul's Juyo is not Djem So, it it were he could take on ventress, but he can't his style is paper and Ventress is scissors.

Edited May 7, 2013 by ZahirS

[Selenial]

Maul fought Vader / Palpatine and stood his ground . He might have begged for his life but at least Palpatine thought it was worth sparing where Ventress was not .

 

I have to ask... When maul "Fought Vader"... Was vader like 7? Because that is the only possible way he fought "Vader"

I'd also like to point you to my previous Comment.... Ventress defeated Luminara Unduli, an incredibly skilled Shi-Cho duelist... She nearly murdered Kit Fisto in her mission on Cestus, in that mission Kit Fisto, who barely survived, realised kenobi would fall that day if he didnt intervene, and the only way he could stop Ventress was to drown the dock...

Kenobi and Fisto, two incredible Jedi Masters, fell to Ventress that day. They did not die, and Kenobi managed to stop ventress when she could not fit her rebreather into her mouth (Dirty Tactic ) But either way, she decimated them in the original duels, the one on one duels, which are the only ones we care about here...

 

You cannot say Ventress' notable victories were over non force sensetives.

Besides, she beat grevious, and grevious had defeated many powerfu jedi, while i want to stray away from A>B B>C therefore A>C, but surely the fact she can beat him proves something?

[LadyKulvax]

Now we are going in circles, as far as Ventress' force abilities go, she has the ability to dampen her presense in the force at times, so as to avoid detection from Jedi,, She was very very skilled in the use of force jump and force speed, and her telekinetic displays, such as throwing chunks of buildings and even enemy vehicles at opponents far outweighs whatever Maul can cook up, his most impressive displays are after the battle of Theed.

[Beniboybling]

Maul using double bladed saber has some impossibily in moves, his mobility is handicapped that is why he relied on kicks or dun monch, the duoble bladed technique has a very great weakness while you can hit from left to right or right to left, theres is always an opening and you have to keep ofenders in a defensive stance always.

Hardly, see here. And here. And here:

 

Saberstaffs were also excellent defensive weapons, as the doubled length of the weapon provided more surface area for deflecting and parrying ~ Wookieepedia

 

You are mistaken, about a great many things... (sorry, couldn't resist.)

[Wolfninjajedi]

I have to ask... When maul "Fought Vader"... Was vader like 7? Because that is the only possible way he fought "Vader"

I'd also like to point you to my previous Comment.... Ventress defeated Luminara Unduli, an incredibly skilled Shi-Cho duelist... She nearly murdered Kit Fisto in her mission on Cestus, in that mission Kit Fisto, who barely survived, realised kenobi would fall that day if he didnt intervene, and the only way he could stop Ventress was to drown the dock...

Kenobi and Fisto, two incredible Jedi Masters, fell to Ventress that day. They did not die, and Kenobi managed to stop ventress when she could not fit her rebreather into her mouth (Dirty Tactic ) But either way, she decimated them in the original duels, the one on one duels, which are the only ones we care about here...

 

You cannot say Ventress' notable victories were over non force sensetives.

Besides, she beat grevious, and grevious had defeated many powerfu jedi, while i want to stray away from A>B B>C therefore A>C, but surely the fact she can beat him proves something?

 

It wasn't the real Maul that fought Vader, it was a doppleganger that was made by 3 Darkside prophets.

[Beniboybling]

...his most impressive displays are after the battle of Theed.

Which are relevant, unless your prepared to debate that they are not. Nonetheless in the Theed Palace there are little projectiles that Ventress can throw at Maul. He has shown himself recovering from Force pushes and falling from impressive heights.

 

Nor does Ventress' Force speed does not seem particularly advanced and will be of little use given that Maul's double-bladed lightsaber allows for an excellent defense - to the point were he can deflect blows without even looking.

[Beniboybling]

Juyo is weak against Makashi

How so?

 

Also note Maul overcame one of Juyo's primary weaknesses, its lack of defense.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Beniboybling

[ZahirS]

Hardly, see here. And here. And here:

 

Saberstaffs were also excellent defensive weapons, as the doubled length of the weapon provided more surface area for deflecting and parrying ~ Wookieepedia

 

You are mistaken, about a great many things... (sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

You are correct Beni but check this out:

 

"In combat, your mind tries to keep track of each blade separately, effectively doubling the number of possibilities. But the two blades are connected: by knowing the location of one, you are automatically aware of the location of the other. In actual practice, the double-bladed lightsaber is more limited than the traditional lightsaber. It can do more damage, but it is less precise. It requires longer, sweeping movements that don't transition well into a quick stab or thrust. Because the weapon is difficult to master, however, few among the Jedi – or even the Sith – understand it. They don't know how to attack or defend effectively against it. That gives those of us who use it an advantage over most of our opponents."

―Blademaster Kas'im[s

 

taken from:http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Double-bladed_lightsaber

Edited May 7, 2013 by ZahirS

[Beniboybling]

You are correct Beni but check this out:

 

"In combat, your mind tries to keep track of each blade separately, effectively doubling the number of possibilities. But the two blades are connected: by knowing the location of one, you are automatically aware of the location of the other. In actual practice, the double-bladed lightsaber is more limited than the traditional lightsaber. It can do more damage, but it is less precise. It requires longer, sweeping movements that don't transition well into a quick stab or thrust. Because the weapon is difficult to master, however, few among the Jedi – or even the Sith – understand it. They don't know how to attack or defend effectively against it. That gives those of us who use it an advantage over most of our opponents."

―Blademaster Kas'im[s

 

taken from:http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Double-bladed_lightsaber

No doubt the saberstaff has some weaknesses, but none that Ventress can capitalize on. And if these weaknesses get the better of him he can switch to a single blade and employ Juyo's attack to maximum effect.

[LadyKulvax]

Which are relevant, unless your prepared to debate that they are not. Nonetheless in the Theed Palace there are little projectiles that Ventress can throw at Maul. He has shown himself recovering from Force pushes and falling from impressive heights.

 

Nor does Ventress' Force speed does not seem particularly advanced and will be of little use given that Maul's double-bladed lightsaber allows for an excellent defense - to the point were he can deflect blows without even looking.

 

Well apparently Kun's post-ritual abilities aren't allowed to be taken into account, neither should Maul's TCW feats.

 

She force speeded her way around Master Windu once and even used it as well as her ability to hide herself partiall in the force to the point that she managed to stab in the back a Jedi of the major calibre of Master Fay without her realising Ventress was even awake.

 

and as Selenial has pointed out, she has beaten some of the best Jedi on the High Council on numerous occasions.

 

Also Theed palace has plenty of windows, pillars, starships and many other inanimate objects.

[ZahirS]

No doubt the saberstaff has some weaknesses, but none that Ventress can capitalize on. And if these weaknesses get the better of him he can switch to a single blade and employ Juyo's attack to maximum effect.

 

He hasn't trained in this point to use juyo with a single lightsaber that was TCW, we are talking TPM abilities

[Aurbere]

There can be no doubt that Ventress' Force abilities are very powerful. And just an FYI, Ventress (IIRC) broke through the Force defenses of another Jedi in a different instance. So she has the ability to do that without being in a desperate state. Again, that's off of memory.

 

Also, I believe that Ventress' skill with stealth are a product of the Quey'Tek meditation, an ability that can be seen through if others are actively looking for the user. However, Ventress often takes great pains to cover her tracks.

 

There's also the factor of the environment. For the purpose of this scenario, the battle will begin in the Throne Room. So there's plenty of itmes to use for telekinetic assaults. And don't think I did that to help Ventress. The scenario I pictured for this battle was the two of them fighting with Sidious sitting on the throne watching.

 

Plus Maul can use telekinetics if he has to. The effectiveness of this is up for debate.

 

He hasn't trained in this point to use juyo with a single lightsaber that was TCW, we are talking TPM abilities

 

Actually, he does have training in the single blade. Plus I doubt he had much time to train while he was insane.

[Beniboybling]

Well apparently Kun's post-ritual abilities aren't allowed to be taken into account, neither should Maul's TCW feats.

 

She force speeded her way around Master Windu once and even used it as well as her ability to hide herself partiall in the force to the point that she managed to stab in the back a Jedi of the major calibre of Master Fay without her realising Ventress was even awake.

 

and as Selenial has pointed out, she has beaten some of the best Jedi on the High Council on numerous occasions.

 

Also Theed palace has plenty of windows, pillars, starships and many other inanimate objects.

1. That is an entirely different situation because firstly, he's a Force ghost, while this is Maul just minus some legs, and secondly you were suggesting we invent an entirely different character. Again I don't why we are drawing this distinction do you ever refer to Anakin as pre-Geonosis and post-Geonosis? I don't. Provide some factual or logical evidence for why those feats are null and void or please cease from bringing it up as if it were G-Canon. Aurbere can we get some clarification on this? Because until there is a written rule saying these events never happened they should at least be considered.
    
    
   
2. Again, Force speed will be nullified by Maul's impressive defense and limited need to move about in order to intercept his opponents, clearly displayed in his duel with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Nor will she be able to sneak up on Maul in a pitched battle.
    
    
   
3. Indeed, but Qui-Gon would have been on the Jedi Council if not for his beliefs. And much like Kun, Maul is saddled with not having many engagements to prove himself in. Nonetheless he did last a substantial amount of time against Sidious, defeated Obi-Wan as a Jedi Master (albeit with the help of his legs) and Ventress was soundly defeated by Dooku - to whom Maul is equal in terms of lightsaber capabilities.
    
    
   
4. I'm also quite sure that Kit Fisto is the only High Jedi Council member Ventress has ever bested, and in that situation her Makashi was Shii-Cho's inherent weakness. She also had time to study his form. Two advantages she will not have against Maul, whom is more skilled than Fisto.
    
    
   
5. But with Maul pressing a constant offensive its going to be difficult to capitalize on that, and Ventress can't throw pillars, collapsing them won't do much either as it would take concentration on her part and likely result in death. Furthermore Maul can recover with relative ease and even use the Force himself to stop the attacks.
   

[fellblade]

Which are relevant, unless your prepared to debate that they are not. Nonetheless in the Theed Palace there are little projectiles that Ventress can throw at Maul. He has shown himself recovering from Force pushes and falling from impressive heights.

 

Nor does Ventress' Force speed does not seem particularly advanced and will be of little use given that Maul's double-bladed lightsaber allows for an excellent defense - to the point were he can deflect blows without even looking.

 

As I said - who in the films had that impressive a Force Power display? Sidious?

Translate Maul to the cartoon and like everyone else he showed more force feats - Surviving being cut in Half for one - Moving heavy objects with telekinetics Force/Lift/Choke

 

Ventress is effective but her style is unrefined - Maul is technically sound in all his styles (this is what he strives for)

He has a deeper understanding of the Art of fighting (closer to Dooku) than Ventress which allows him to adapt his fighting to the opponent he is facing - this understanding Showed by the way he easily nullified Savages power with a few simple sidesteps and solid (refined) Bladework - Savages' power gave Ventress all sorts of problems

 

He is strong in the force in a more combat oriented way and reading his books and seeing him in action he (has strong innate force defences and good force awareness) and seems less vulnerable to surprise force attacks than Ventress or Kenobi - (Personally, I think armoured Vader would be bouncing Ventress off the walls)

 

Also, Maul has incredible physical conditioning - he can withstand a lot of punishment and has excellent recovery and he never seems to tire.

The mix of styles he uses compensates for weaknesses in Juyo ..... Sidious thought Maul's skills as a warrior were nonpareil but his biggest flaw was Hubris.....

 

We kind of have to use Mauls Cartoon feats to help judge this because we have not seen Ventress in a Film medium where EVERYBODY is considerably less impressive (Maul actually being one of the most impressively skilled on the big screen)

[Wolfninjajedi]

 

We kind of have to use Mauls Cartoon feats to help judge this because we have not seen Ventress in a Film medium where EVERYBODY is considerably less impressive (Maul actually being one of the most impressively skilled on the big screen)

 

Well Fell we can use the material and such before TPM and up to it he has shown some stuff, were not going by the TPM alone were just going up to that point everything else before it can be used.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Aurbere can we get some clarification on this? Because until there is a written rule saying these events never happened they should at least be considered.

 

I thought I already cleared this up? Alright, let me try again.

 

It is unlikely that Maul had any time to hone his lightsaber skills or do any kind of training during his absence. Therefore, it is likely that Maul as we see in TPM is just as skilled as Maul as we see him in TCW. The only thing that has really changed is him having mechanical legs, his use of Dun Moch, and his use of a single blade.

 

For all intents and purposes, both incarnations are of similar skill, the only difference being the Dun Moch and the lightsaber changes. Of course we can use the abilities that Maul displays before TPM as well, at which time Maul shows skill in single blade combat. He also shows skill in single blade combat when fighting Qui-Gon Jinn on Tatooine. At that point Maul doesn't have the element of surprise (regarding his lightsaber, I'm sure him being there is a surprise).

 

Bottom line: TPM and everything before that is allowed as credible evidence to support Maul. Maul's capabilities in TCW should also be considered, due to the fact that Maul didn't do any sort of training during his absence. However, remember that Maul is using an double-bladed lightsaber, is fully organic, and doesn't use Dun Moch.

 

From an analytical standpoint (which is why I separated the two incarnations), Maul is drastically different from TPM to TCW.

[fellblade]

Well Fell we can use the material and such before TPM and up to it he has shown some stuff, were not going by the TPM alone were just going up to that point everything else before it can be used.

 

Ah Ok I see - so mainly stuff from the Black Sun comics and The Shadow Hunter books.....?

is it worth pointing out that After TPM Maul never received any additional training (or even experience if you think about it as his mind was fragmented and he was exiled on that junk planet not studying the force or lightsaber training ) - so what we saw in the cartoon was pretty much the stuff he had already learned as an apprentice anyway - (when he confronts Sidious he even says 'I used what you taught me')

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ah Ok I see - so mainly stuff from the Black Sun comics and The Shadow Hunter books.....?

is it worth pointing out that After TPM Maul never received any additional training (or even experience if you think about it as his mind was fragmented and he was exiled on that junk planet not studying the force or lightsaber training ) - so what we saw in the cartoon was pretty much the stuff he had already learned as an apprentice anyway - (when he confronts Sidious he even says 'I used what you taught me')

 

Pretty much ya is what to use.

[LadyKulvax]

Clearly holds her own and even gains the upper hand twice whilst severely injured vs Skywalker and Kenobi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7JsP3tn9s0

 

Clearly out-duels Greivous to the point that He calls upon his droids to even the fight:

 

Allies with Kenobi and faces off against Oppress and spends the entire fight with either only one of her weapons or none at all:

 

Completely schools Unduli: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rxcxxn8vwA

 

Takes on Anakin Skywalker a master of both variations of Form V and is in only one occasion overcome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNP35AmAqgw

 

Then there are the numerous Jedi she has defeated or killed off the show such as Kit Fisto and Master Fay (A Jedi Kenobi considered second only to Yoda himself in force prowess).

 

What about the fact that Ventress who was entirely self trained after her short Jedi apprenticeship went on to live in obscurity for years before facing Dooku himself without being totally humiliated and then right after faced off against Skywalker nearly killing him numerous times.

 

She is also an exceptional escape artist, even Greivous wasn't that good at escaping the Jedi.

Edited May 7, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[mefit]

Ok at home better to reply

 

Ventress

1 Master of no skills , no powers

2 Ends up running in ever fight of note

3 Barely got away from Maul and his brother when she was paired up with Obi-Wan

 

Maul

1 Master of Lightsaber Forums , decent forceuser

2 Survived being Cut in Half

3 Came back from being out his mind crazy

4 Killed a Jedi Master of note

5 Was held to a stand still in most fights or finished them himself

6 Raised and Trained by Sidious , the most powerful and skilled Sithlord ever

 

Seriously this is a sad Debat , she has less skills and powers to name than Revan but yet we are to believe she is going to kill a Apprentice of Sidious's ? Someone he raised and trained himself ?

Maul fought a master of Force Speed and for a good bit held his own without running . Sidious who spares no one seen worth in keeping Maul alive as a Pawn where he never seen of Ventress . That alone says folds of Maul.

 

What planet did Ventress take over?

Most of her fights was her running of by the skin of her teeth , and btw she was bound to get a upper hand one time or another ................ as for her being more powerful than Grievous ? Well if that was so Dooku would have kept her but instead he tossed her aside .

 

A lot of speculation in this thread as is , I like Ventress leagues more than Maul and think her character is beyond better . But she as of yet is not at any point a match for Maul , she could barely beat his brother who held his own against her with less training and was pretty much a brute with a lightsaber .

 

I think this next season of 2 we will see what happens to Ventress , we know she eventually dies or runs away far far away . Likely like Maul .

Edited May 7, 2013 by mefit

[mefit]

1. That is an entirely different situation because firstly, he's a Force ghost, while this is Maul just minus some legs, and secondly you were suggesting we invent an entirely different character. Again I don't why we are drawing this distinction do you ever refer to Anakin as pre-Geonosis and post-Geonosis? I don't. Provide some factual or logical evidence for why those feats are null and void or please cease from bringing it up as if it were G-Canon. Aurbere can we get some clarification on this? Because until there is a written rule saying these events never happened they should at least be considered.
    
    
   
2. Again, Force speed will be nullified by Maul's impressive defense and limited need to move about in order to intercept his opponents, clearly displayed in his duel with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Nor will she be able to sneak up on Maul in a pitched battle.
    
    
   
3. Indeed, but Qui-Gon would have been on the Jedi Council if not for his beliefs. And much like Kun, Maul is saddled with not having many engagements to prove himself in. Nonetheless he did last a substantial amount of time against Sidious, defeated Obi-Wan as a Jedi Master (albeit with the help of his legs) and Ventress was soundly defeated by Dooku - to whom Maul is equal in terms of lightsaber capabilities.
    
    
   
4. I'm also quite sure that Kit Fisto is the only High Jedi Council member Ventress has ever bested, and in that situation her Makashi was Shii-Cho's inherent weakness. She also had time to study his form. Two advantages she will not have against Maul, whom is more skilled than Fisto.
    
    
   
5. But with Maul pressing a constant offensive its going to be difficult to capitalize on that, and Ventress can't throw pillars, collapsing them won't do much either as it would take concentration on her part and likely result in death. Furthermore Maul can recover with relative ease and even use the Force himself to stop the attacks.
   

 

I think Ben said it all , at this point all that can be said is said .

 

Saying Ventress can beat Maul is like saying Revan can beat Exar Kun . A unknown really fighting a well addressed known Forceuser . I like Revan and Ventress more than Exar Kun and Maul but atleast I can admit when my characters have no chance .

Edited May 7, 2013 by mefit

[Aurbere]

Ok at home better to reply

 

Ventress

1 Master of no skills , no powers

2 Ends up running in ever fight of note

3 Barely got away from Maul and his brother when she was paired up with Obi-Wan

 

 

1. Ventress was a master of Jar'Kai dual-wielding and an excellent Makashi user.

 

2. Every fight of note being when she is outmatched. Fights like Mace Windu, Yoda, Obi-Wan + Anakin, Ki-Adi Mundi, Count Dooku, and Plo Koon. Do we give points for suicides now? If anything, her surviving against the top tier Jedi (and Dooku) works in her favor.

 

3. Well, yes, that's true. But then again, enclosed spaces work against the acrobatic skills that Ventress has, and yet she held her own better than Obi-Wan.