3 Simple PVP Changes Needed in Next Patch

[JediFlux]

I will explain in more detail below, but I don't want to make everyone read it all to get to the 3.

 

1.) Eliminate the healing boost on expertise. Healers still have to get it for the damage reduction. Lower the damage boost from expertise by 10% or 15%. This fixes the strong healers and TTK.

2) Scamper animation needs to be slowed down and have a 5 to 8 sec cooldown.

3)Guard doesn't break you out of mezzes anymore, but it can still interrupt a cap? Does that make any sense?

 

 

Breakdown of my thought process. For number 1 we all know that time to kill is way too fast at the moment. Everyone just gets blown up I know because I am a tank. The problem is that healers in numbers can be very strong so they need that healing boost removed. They will have to walk in with full expertise for the damage reduction so no PVE gear for them. With this lowering of healing you can lower the damage boost from expertise which will lower TTK back to acceptable levels.

 

For Number 2 though I think it is a good skill for them if you have pvped at all for a few matches especially in huttball and voidstar as examples you can see how dumb this ability is with no cd. The animation also has to be slowed down so you can actually see it instead of people warping. You can eliminate the energy cost of it or lower that energy cost and have like maybe an 8 sec cd for healers and a 5 sec cd for dps? This would make a huge difference.

 

For Number 3 they changed guard damage so that it doesn't wake people up from mezzes, but it still interrupts you when you are trying to cap in novare or others. Does that make any sense at all? On a personal note I am a guardian tank and I am always ridiculously starved for focus in pvp. Why doesn't the guard that gives me damage proc my focus generation. I am already nerfed with my strikes in soresu the least they can do is give me focus through guard.

 

Anyways, hopefully people support this as usually the only threads they see are ones with a lot of responses and lot of activity that stay the top. I think the 3 things I said are pretty common sense and we can all support them.

 

P.S. I know that the healing boost on expertise is 20% so their is a net gain of dps there, but a shorter TTK overall. We can all admit that with a guard a couple healers unless you have insane dps on your team with focus fire nothing dies atm.

[Seireeni]

Play a scrapper scoundrel and then come back and tell me that cd wouldn't make scamper completely useless. 6m roll isn't much of a cap closer, especially when it takes a lot of energy.

[JediFlux]

Yea that is why I said that you can eliminate the energy cost for it. Do you actually think that rolling from the ball spawn point to the goal with no one able to stop you unless they are ahead of you is fair? Or being able to roll all the way to the datacore with little to no trouble is fair?

 

And the 6m roll is only when you are slowed. It is 12m if you aren't. You can't go from being the least mobile class to being the most mobile class with one ability. It makes no sense as you have stealth.

Edited May 4, 2013 by JediFlux

[Seireeni]

Sure, scoring the huttball alone by rolling, which sometimes can be seen, it's not too much fun for the opposing team, but cd to roll is not an option. I liked better that roll would drop the ball or something.

As for datacore, i really don't care if it's scoundrel with roll or shadow with force speed who gets to the core first.

[JediFlux]

A shadow cannot force speed ahead of everyone non-stop. Anyone who has pvped has seen an operative do things a shadow or sage could never hope to do with force speed. I have pvped a lot more than most and I know that being able to spam this ability is not a fair ability. You can stealth out with dodge and scamper away and there is no way for anyone to stop you. A shadow can stealth out and force speed and I can still catch up to them and stop them before a cap is finished. Not with an operative or scoundrel.

 

I am not even talking about the application of going in stealth from one node to another in novare or civil war for example. It is instant support that no other class can even hope to copy. I get that it costs a lot of energy, but with cool head and 12m rolls you can get to a node with no energy and still use auto attack to interrupt.....

[KamikazeKommando]

Do you actually think that rolling from the ball spawn point to the goal with no one able to stop you unless they are ahead of you is fair? Or being able to roll all the way to the datacore with little to no trouble is fair?

 

How about making it so if you attempt to roll through the flame trap you come out very well done. Don't tell me an ability that enables you to ignore a WZ mechanic like that is fair to everyone else that can't, and the sage/sorc bubble doesn't count.

Edited May 4, 2013 by KamikazeKommando

[Seireeni]

...the cap time on datacore is 1 second or something like that I think? I haven't actually seen anyone to interrupt the datacore cap, especially since damage doesn't interrupt it. You don't seem to be talking about your own examples anymore.

 

Tbh I don't care if my scoundrel is 2 seconds faster in the distance of 130m than combat sentinel. I just wanted a cap closer, and I got one. Against anyone who is clever enough to use slows and their own escape ability (like force speed), 12m, with bad luck 6m, roll with cd would not work as a cap closer.

[JediFlux]

I am talking about all the doors, bridges, and forcefields from the first door not the actual datacore....

[JediFlux]

Just because you have a gap closer doesn't mean it is supposed to be spammable.....I can't leap to someone over and over again it has a cd. We all have cds to our gap closers why should you be any different?

[Seireeni]

When I can roll 10-30 depending on where the escaping target is without any slows affecting this, can use my gap closer as an interrupt and my gap closer also stuns the target for a moment, I'll be happy to have a cd on my gap closer.

Too bad that scamper does none of those things.

[jolleebindu]

While i agree with the point behind the #1 on your list, your fix will not scale with gear advances in coming patches.

A rework might be necessary, but that would not be the way to go about it.

[JediFlux]

When I can roll 10-30 depending on where the escaping target is without any slows affecting this, can use my gap closer as an interrupt and my gap closer also stuns the target for a moment, I'll be happy to have a cd on my gap closer.

Too bad that scamper does none of those things.

 

Ok so if we are going to start just talking about what advantages classes have I wish I could heal myself around a corner, I wish I had a mezz on someone from stealth. I wish I had stealth and I wish I had a ranged 8 sec mezz etc.

 

The fact that you are talking about my gap closer in comparison to yours is irrelevant. My class doesn't have things that yours does and vice versa. The basic point is that it is our gap closer. The fact that mine is different is irrelevant. Oh and it is on a 15 second cooldown with my scenario of a 5sec cd for dps you could roll 2 almost 3 times before mine comes back up. Be logical and fair in your comparisons please.

[JediFlux]

While i agree with the point behind the #1 on your list, your fix will not scale with gear advances in coming patches.

A rework might be necessary, but that would not be the way to go about it.

 

I am sorry, but I am confused. Why would this not translate to future gear advances? As primary stat of dps increases the healers would be getting that same boost to their stats. This would essentially create the same pairing at the next gear advance. I am sorry if I am missing something, but that is the way I was thinking of it at least.

[TseTse]

Edit: Proposal already in-game. Edited May 4, 2013 by TseTse

[Glower]

1) no

2) no

3)Guard doesn't break you out of mezzes anymore, but it can still interrupt a cap? Does that make any sense? fix it

[TonyDragonflame]

No. Just no.

[Glower]

Just because you have a gap closer doesn't mean it is supposed to be spammable.....I can't leap to someone over and over again it has a cd. We all have cds to our gap closers why should you be any different?

 

This not just gap closer this is a counter to snipers 18m roll (roll 18x2 in engi tree) too!

[Cryowolf]

I agree with your #1, maybe not the actual numbers as that math is beyond me, but that something needs to change regarding TTK.

 

I also agree with your #3 as that is just silly that you can't cap a node if you receive damage through your guard. Although it adds a skill factor and makes guard less of a fire and forget skill. I see tanks drop guard on one player and never switch it no matter who is being focused. Of course, I drop into cover first most times I cap a node so I guess you could drop guard in the meantime.

 

Your second point needs work though.

 

TL;DR Can we get people posting strategy to counter Scamper instead of people just asking for nerfs?

 

2) Scamper animation needs to be slowed down and have a 5 to 8 sec cooldown.

 

If you changed this to base Scamper having a cd and Scrapper/DF trees having a skill to remove the cd then I'll agree. Healing Scoundrels already have strong survivability and don't need a gap closer anyway. If you truly want it to have a cd for the whole AC then I don't think you have played a Scrapper/DF scoundrel. Playing 1000's of pvp matches does give you a good understanding of alot of things, but to really know the strengths and especially the weaknesses of a class you need to play it.

 

Do you actually think that rolling from the ball spawn point to the goal with no one able to stop you unless they are ahead of you is fair? Or being able to roll all the way to the datacore with little to no trouble is fair.

 

How is he rolling from the ball spawn to the goal with noone in between? He was smart enough to be in mid when then ball respawns. That is a rare scenario indeed though. Blame your teammates or yourself for poor strategy because a sage or shadow or even a sentinel could grab an uncontested ball from mid and get a huge enough lead to score. Hell, I have done that before 2.0 with my crappy out of stealth six second speed boost.

 

Look at the map. If your whole team is on the enemy goal side from just scoring (usual time that anyone will grab the ball at mid uncontested), then jump in the fire to get to respawn ahead of their ball carrier.

 

But seriously? Is a guardian complaining about scoundrel's ball running capability? You know you are the best carrier, now scooch over and share a tiny spot on your pedestal now that other classes can actually score sometimes. I have seen more Troopers and Smugglers score since 2.0 released than I did the entire time of vanilla. I think that diversity is a positive change to Huttball. The map has largely favored lightsabers and now the regular joes are elbowing their way in.

 

As far as VS I won't lie I do try to use Scamper to my team's advantage and I assume the enemy team's Operative is doing the same. But I am countered by AoE damage, slows and stealth scans on the doors, as well as enemy sins and operatives who hunt me down over and over and who can also get there in time to stop me capping the bridge. I have been stopped from capping by a whole team that was speed boosted from their marauder.

 

Just because you have a gap closer doesn't mean it is supposed to be spammable.....I can't leap to someone over and over again it has a cd. We all have cds to our gap closers why should you be any different?

 

Because your gap closer is amazing all the time. Ours has severe weaknesses. Can't Scamper while rooted and it is not worth pushing the hotkey when slowed. How many roots and slows are there again?

[ChicagoBearsFan]

I will explain in more detail below, but I don't want to make everyone read it all to get to the 3.

 

1.) Eliminate the healing boost on expertise. Healers still have to get it for the damage reduction. Lower the damage boost from expertise by 10% or 15%. This fixes the strong healers and TTK.

2) Scamper animation needs to be slowed down and have a 5 to 8 sec cooldown.

3)Guard doesn't break you out of mezzes anymore, but it can still interrupt a cap? Does that make any sense?

 

 

Breakdown of my thought process. For number 1 we all know that time to kill is way too fast at the moment. Everyone just gets blown up I know because I am a tank. The problem is that healers in numbers can be very strong so they need that healing boost removed. They will have to walk in with full expertise for the damage reduction so no PVE gear for them. With this lowering of healing you can lower the damage boost from expertise which will lower TTK back to acceptable levels.

 

For Number 2 though I think it is a good skill for them if you have pvped at all for a few matches especially in huttball and voidstar as examples you can see how dumb this ability is with no cd. The animation also has to be slowed down so you can actually see it instead of people warping. You can eliminate the energy cost of it or lower that energy cost and have like maybe an 8 sec cd for healers and a 5 sec cd for dps? This would make a huge difference.

 

For Number 3 they changed guard damage so that it doesn't wake people up from mezzes, but it still interrupts you when you are trying to cap in novare or others. Does that make any sense at all? On a personal note I am a guardian tank and I am always ridiculously starved for focus in pvp. Why doesn't the guard that gives me damage proc my focus generation. I am already nerfed with my strikes in soresu the least they can do is give me focus through guard.

 

Anyways, hopefully people support this as usually the only threads they see are ones with a lot of responses and lot of activity that stay the top. I think the 3 things I said are pretty common sense and we can all support them.

 

P.S. I know that the healing boost on expertise is 20% so their is a net gain of dps there, but a shorter TTK overall. We can all admit that with a guard a couple healers unless you have insane dps on your team with focus fire nothing dies atm.

 

1) TTK is too short so we need to nerf the healing? ... Genius. TTK is short with no healers as it should be to make healers relevant in PVP again. Focus, inturrupt & stun healers and they WILL die. This is a L2P issue and yes it may take some coordination from your team to accomplish *gasp*.

2) Nothing needs to be changed to scamper other than fixing the animation. Roll a scoundrel to learn how it works and how to counter it.

3) Guard has a nifty feature in that you can turn it OFF. If you are about to cap a door, turn it off, then cap. Wow, I can't believe this is brought up as an issue!

 

Seriously folks, learn to adapt and use your head.

[Cryowolf]

Another solution for scamper, and relatively easy to implement, is that it doesn't dodge after each roll. The current problem (I've found, I'm a scoundrel)

 

You play a healer scoundrel? The only tree that adds dodge to scamper is the scrapper tree and that is at a 50% chance and incurs a 15 sec cd.

[Seireeni]

Ok so if we are going to start just talking about what advantages classes have I wish I could heal myself around a corner, I wish I had a mezz on someone from stealth. I wish I had stealth and I wish I had a ranged 8 sec mezz etc.

 

The fact that you are talking about my gap closer in comparison to yours is irrelevant. My class doesn't have things that yours does and vice versa. The basic point is that it is our gap closer. The fact that mine is different is irrelevant. Oh and it is on a 15 second cooldown with my scenario of a 5sec cd for dps you could roll 2 almost 3 times before mine comes back up. Be logical and fair in your comparisons please.

 

You compared your gap closer to scamper, I didn't. I pointed out the differences between our gap closers. Problem?

The fact that your gap closer can be used to bunch of other stuff is one reason why it has a cd. Remember, to be able to roll 30m (which is the range of the warrior/knight gap closer) scoundrels need to roll at least 3 times, not to mention that your gap closer doesn't eat your resources.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Seireeni

[TseTse]

You play a healer scoundrel? The only tree that adds dodge to scamper is the scrapper tree and that is at a 50% chance and incurs a 15 sec cd.

My bad, haven't tried healer in a while.

[JediFlux]

I don't have a problem with the gap closer issue like I said I am in no way talking about removing it.....but understand that you can't just have an ability that can only be countered by other people of your same class. Pretty much everyone else just has to watch you scamper away without being able to do literally anything about it. Leap....on dodge and oh there you go again with no way for me to catch you....and this is just talking from a JK perspective....I can give you a few from other classes perspective. The fact that you can spam it several times in a row with cool head is silly.

 

Oh and I do have an operative so I know exactly how the mechanic works. The only person that can legitimately catch up to you is another operative or scoundrel. Does that make any sense? That the only person that can keep up with you is one of your own class? What happens if one team doesn't have one?

 

All I am saying is my problem with scamper isn't the fact that you have to gap close its the fact that it gives a huge advantage when it comes to moving around a pvp map. You have stealth.....this idea that you needed to be the fastest thing under the sun to be viable is so silly. You can many times move freely where others can't because of stealth....I know if someone sees me they tend to attack me....so you think it is fair that you can stealth around a map without getting attacked on sight and its ok that you can move faster than everyone at the same time?

 

Have you ever seen how fast a scampering operative or scoundrel can cap a side node on civil war? Think it is fair that if you don't have a class with at least some speed boost they may not get the interrupt?

 

Also, if you think that healing isn't a little much right now then you are healer. Do you know how you can tell when something is a little too strong? When you see a bunch of people in the pvp matches being that spec or class. Why do you think there are so many healers in pvp matches now....

[Seireeni]

I'm pretty sure scoundrel/operative players get it that you don't have anything against us having a gap closer. It feels to me that you don't get that making the change you propose wouldn't only affect "rolling around in the speed of light" (as someone once said), it would also strongly affect how scamper can be used as a gap closer and escape ability. You want to add a cd so scoundrels can't spam roll when they want to get fast from place a to place b, I don't want a cd because I couldn't spam scamper when my target is running away with force speed and I have to catch them. Edited May 4, 2013 by Seireeni

[OldSpiceSwag]

people complain so much about scamper...just take a second and think: why SHOULDN'T they have something better than everyone else in just one aspect? what else do scoundrels (scrappers specifically bc they spam it more) that another class doesnt have better??? it's their only one redeeming thing...why dont you settle down