Exar Kun vs Darth Vader vs Jaina Solo

[LadyKulvax]

Ok see now we are getting somewhere, now it'll be more difficult for Vader however I still see him pulling a win due to him utilizing powers IE: Alter Environment, Force Barrier/Absorb/Deflection at his disposal which Kun hasn't faced off against before, also his saber style. But now I see it as more a 50/50 shot, it all depends really on what goes down and what happens between the two, the Force Blasts are what Vader really has to keep watch over as that can be used at a distance or close up. It'll probably take more then a few blasts however, cause Vader's durability and will to live on is just *********** ridiculous.

 

But I also think the fact that even if Vader's power blows do come into play here and even if Kun's skills can't adequately defend against him, well Kun is so fast, accurate and better yet has such an easy way to disengage: Force Flight, he can literally escape to regroup.and fight off some more.

 

We can't forget the third participant here though, that is the point, Kun and Vader can't batter away at each other the entire time, because Jaina is also part of this engagement, that is why I made it a three way, it's gonna take more for the Sith Lords than just beating the snuff out of each other to win this, they also have to watch their back or the next thing they see is a violet blade sticking out of their chest.

Edited May 5, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[Wolfninjajedi]

But I also think the fact that even if Vader's power blows do come into play here and even if Kun's skills can't adequately defend against him, well Kun is so fast, accurate and better yet has such an easy way to disengage: Force Flight, he can literally escape to regroup.and fight off some more.

 

We can't forget the third participant here though, that is the point, Kun and Vader can't batter away at each other the entire time, because Jaina is also part of this engagement, that is why I made it a three way, it's gonna take more for the Sith Lords than just beating the snuff out of each other to win this, they also have to watch their back or the next thing they see is a violet blade sticking out of their chest.

 

True on the Force Flight bit, though again(I know have stated many times) was staying away from Jaina, as I don't know the extent of her abilities.

[Beniboybling]

You know what, fine, we'll handi-cap him, this is pre-ritual Kun.

I wouldn't say handicap - rather substitute a 'real' character for an imaginary one.

[LadyKulvax]

I wouldn't say handicap - rather substitute a 'real' character for an imaginary one.

 

Well it isn't exactly hard to picture given he actively states that is his plan, but regardless this is no longer the debate.

[ZahirS]

Why is this going still:

 

Exar Kun pre-ritual was less powerful than Vader (Rule of Two)

 

Jaina is beyond the power of either Kun or Vader

[LadyKulvax]

Why is this going still:

 

Exar Kun pre-ritual was less powerful than Vader (Rule of Two)

 

Jaina is beyond the power of either Kun or Vader

 

Got some evidence for that?

 

Kun was never a part of the Rule of Two and Vader failed to live up to his master's power.

 

Also, where is your evidence for Jaina being superior to the both of them? you are just stating opinions right now, feel free to actually make your argument if you like, then we can talk.

[Beniboybling]

Why is this going still:

 

Exar Kun pre-ritual was less powerful than Vader (Rule of Two)

 

Jaina is beyond the power of either Kun or Vader

Rule of Two logic does not apply to Vader as essentially the Rule ended with Sidious - Vader is only part of the Rule in name. And even he was such logic is only applicable to those within the Rule of Two, of which Exar Kun is not.

[ZahirS]

Ok Ill lay down some things:

 

Rule of Two is essentially created by Bane to make Sith more powerful, Vader is the second only to Sideous by this rule.

 

The main atagonists of this rule are Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh and Exar Kun, the old acient Sith lords believed in competition made the Sith more powerful

 

Ok now Ill say something about Vader:

 

Vader didn't have any rituals, relics or used arcane magic to enhance him, he relied purely on rage and the "true sith" doctrine of learning everything and the only competition in their own master.

 

Vader reached such power he could defeat Luke in ROTJ or Post ROTJ but he wasn't in rage at that point, Vader facing someone like Exar Kun would only fuel his rage and there wouldn't be anything to stop him from defeating Kun.

 

Vader already learned a lot from Sideous he knew things like Mind Domination that Kun never faced I think, this alone makes Kun even a greater target to get rid off for Vader the juggernaut.

 

Jaina powers are several by in duel she can use the lightside of the force to heal her wounds in mid combat, while using a brutal efficient lightsaber combat essentially using shatterpoint to know the enemies weaknesses in their style, For Jaina it would take minutes to know Exar Kun style and defend against it, while using several techniques in case Kun manages to become a sipirt like "walking in shadows" essentially jaina would counter exar kun spirit.

[LadyKulvax]

Again the Rule of Two just does not apply here, only one of these combatants was a member of the Order of the Sith Lords and he only ever managed to reach 80% of a ROTJ Emperor Palpatine, in other words failing to live up to his master's knowledge, whom was so confident in his station that he didn't even carry a lightsaber any more.

 

Also Vader would most certainly not have defeated Post-Jedi Luke, by any margin.

 

Also, shatterpoint is great, but it can become unreliable in multi-people situations, as we saw when Windu misinterpreted the shatterpoint during his confrontation with the Sith.

[Beniboybling]

Ok Ill lay down some things:

 

Rule of Two is essentially created by Bane to make Sith more powerful, Vader is the second only to Sideous by this rule.

 

The main atagonists of this rule are Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh and Exar Kun, the old acient Sith lords believed in competition made the Sith more powerful

But like I said, as Vader never overthrew his Master and continued the line - Rule of Two logic does not apply. Neither was Kun apart of it, so it doesn't apply x2. Edited May 6, 2013 by Beniboybling

[ZahirS]

You both are wrong

 

Rule of two does pply because Vader wa spart of it, and he did he trained by Sideous.

[Aurbere]

Ok Ill lay down some things:

 

Rule of Two is essentially created by Bane to make Sith more powerful, Vader is the second only to Sideous by this rule.

 

The main atagonists of this rule are Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh and Exar Kun, the old acient Sith lords believed in competition made the Sith more powerful

 

Ok now Ill say something about Vader:

 

Vader didn't have any rituals, relics or used arcane magic to enhance him, he relied purely on rage and the "true sith" doctrine of learning everything and the only competition in their own master.

 

Vader reached such power he could defeat Luke in ROTJ or Post ROTJ but he wasn't in rage at that point, Vader facing someone like Exar Kun would only fuel his rage and there wouldn't be anything to stop him from defeating Kun.

 

Vader already learned a lot from Sideous he knew things like Mind Domination that Kun never faced I think, this alone makes Kun even a greater target to get rid off for Vader the juggernaut.

 

Jaina powers are several by in duel she can use the lightside of the force to heal her wounds in mid combat, while using a brutal efficient lightsaber combat essentially using shatterpoint to know the enemies weaknesses in their style, For Jaina it would take minutes to know Exar Kun style and defend against it, while using several techniques in case Kun manages to become a sipirt like "walking in shadows" essentially jaina would counter exar kun spirit.

 

The issue with Rule of Two logic is that Kun wasn't apart of the Rule of Two. If this were Vader and Bane, then the logic applies.

 

Also, as previously mentioned, shatterpoint has a 'multiple persons' weakness. She could mistake Vader's weakness for Kun's, or vice-versa.

 

Personally, I see Kun going after Vader. Much like when he went after Ulic and Aleema, Exar Kun will try to take out Vader because he is a threat to Kun's reign as Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

I don't know what Jaina would do, but a sound strategy would be waiting. Wait until the battle between the two is nearly over and then take out the one with the advantage. Then the weaker one is easy prey.

 

There is a flaw in this strategy, but it seems like the best option to me, especially considering Kun's own personality.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Edit: Just nvrm, I said I was done. I won't get dragged back into this. Edited May 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

You both are wrong

 

Rule of two does pply because Vader wa spart of it, and he did he trained by Sideous.

 

Vader was in it, but Exar Kun was not. Sure the Rule of Two works to increase the power of the Sith, but Exar Kun was not apart of that rule. He is exempt from that comparison. If we were comparing Vader to Bane, then the comparison would be valid.

 

But we're not. We are comparing two Sith Lords from two different orders. Yes, the Rule of Two created Darth Sidious. Yes, Vader became 80% of Darth Sidious. But Exar Kun is from a different order of Sith. The Rule of Two logic only applies to Rule of Two Sith, and to show as proof of Darth Sidious being the best.

[ZahirS]

Vader was in it, but Exar Kun was not. Sure the Rule of Two works to increase the power of the Sith, but Exar Kun was not apart of that rule. He is exempt from that comparison. If we were comparing Vader to Bane, then the comparison would be valid.

 

But we're not. We are comparing two Sith Lords from two different orders. Yes, the Rule of Two created Darth Sidious. Yes, Vader became 80% of Darth Sidious. But Exar Kun is from a different order of Sith. The Rule of Two logic only applies to Rule of Two Sith, and to show as proof of Darth Sidious being the best.

 

True aurbere, but my point stands because Vader order or the "true sith" is much more powerful than Ancient Sith Lords.

 

Because the true sith learned everything they could for themselves, because they knew knowledge is power while the ancient Sith lords including Exar Kun choose to specialize in one aspect of the darkside.

Edited May 6, 2013 by ZahirS

[Darkondo]

True aurbere, but my point stands because Vader order or the "true sith" is much more powerful than Ancient Sith Lords.

 

Because the true sith learned everything they could for themselves, because they knew knowledge is power while the ancient Sith lords including Exar Kun choose to specialize in one aspect of the darkside.

 

While that is true, you forget that Exar Kun was WAY ahead of his time in power, he defeated the 2 greatest jedi masters of his order at the time easily. Exar Kun's power is what one would consider timeless as the sith would not see that kind of power again till Emperor Vitiate, and his power was arguably never surpassed by any sith till Darth Sidious.

 

Also one thing, the Rule of Two was created to restore sith strength as it had fallen to its weakest point in history with Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness. They had to build their strength back up and like I have said before it would not be till Darth Sidious that the sith had reached their peak.

[ZahirS]

While that is true, you forget that Exar Kun was WAY ahead of his time in power, he defeated the 2 greatest jedi masters of his order at the time easily. Exar Kun's power is what one would consider timeless as the sith would not see that kind of power again till Emperor Vitiate, and his power was arguably never surpassed by any sith till Darth Sidious.

 

Also one thing, the Rule of Two was created to restore sith strength as it had fallen to its weakest point in history with Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness. They had to build their strength back up and like I have said before it would not be till Darth Sidious that the sith had reached their peak.

 

yet Kun wasn't ahead of their master Ludo kresh which means Kun's power is similar to Naga Sadow or less.

 

Vader is also kind of timeless, he can defeat ancient sith lords or even future ones like Krayt are no rival.

 

So I have to give this to Jaina

Edited May 7, 2013 by ZahirS