Exar Kun vs Darth Vader vs Jaina Solo

[LadyKulvax]

He also was using Kyp Durron's powers to augment his own... He wanted Kyp Durron to kill Luke Skywalker, but he couldn't push Kyp enough to actually do it, so he spent the next several weeks trying to finish the job and failed each time.

 

Exar Kun probably wouldn't have been able to pull off putting Luke in a coma without Kyp Durron as a power boost.

 

Remember we are referring to Sith spirits here, which are far weaker than their corporeal forms, this is the physical manifestation of Kun had he rebuilt his body.

[fellblade]

Hard to Say in this one

 

However, I am wondering if there is something to (a very skilled) Jar Kai user having some kind of advantage over Djem So -

 

I noticed this with Maul against Vader (as people have mentioned) but this was also the case with Blademaster Ka'sim using Duel-wielding Ataru vs Bane (another Djem So user) - in both these cases it was stated that the duel-wielding form gave them difficulties to fight against......

 

As I know very little about Jaina (only wookiepedia stuff) I can't really judge this fight overall.

[LadyKulvax]

Now Fellblade, you understand the reason I picked these duellists.

 

Kun's version of Jar'kai isn't just your typical stance though, it's one-handed with a full mastery of Niman.

 

Now throw in force flight, force blast and force repulse which he can use simultaneously with his duelling ability and you get the idea that he is more than a match for the both of these.

 

But again Jaina isn't really being done justice yet, hopefuly someone comes a long posting what I hope they post.

[fellblade]

Now Fellblade, you understand the reason I picked these duellists.

 

Kun's version of Jar'kai isn't just your typical stance though, it's one-handed with a full mastery of Niman.

 

Now throw in force flight, force blast and force repulse which he can use simultaneously with his duelling ability and you get the idea that he is more than a match for the both of these.

 

But again Jaina isn't really being done justice yet, hopefuly someone comes a long posting what I hope they post.

 

I thought Jar Kai was duel wielding (Saber in Each Hand) rather than a Duel Saber (Saberstaff)

I know Kun was a Master of both as well (so I was implying that like Maul he has that option)

 

However, I see what you mean about Kun's Saberstaff mastery as you say it was a bit different and I have not seen anyone else use that particular (one handed) style - so Even thousands of years in the future it would still be something that Vader or Jaina would probably never have come across.

 

I like what I read about Kun and one of the main things I remember about him was actually in the first SWTOR - In the PC version there was a Spacestation with a Rodian who would talk about Exar Kun

The Impression I got from this Rodian is that He was Far more Impressed with Exar Kun than he ever was with Revan or Malak - he was essentially saying that yeah sure I know about Revan and Malak - but Exar Kun - they don't make Sith Lords like that anymore - the very ground would shake underneath his steps etc....

 

However partly Kun may be underrated because of The campaign of those that say the PT Jedi > Everything before them.....and not really evaluate everything Kun will bring to this contest (Duelling Skills - Force Powers - Alchemy and Sorcery)

 

I am No expert on Kun but - Just Reading up about him and the Powers he wielded (Not to mention that he seemed to be one of the most innovative individuals in the History of the Jedi/Sith).

I think of someone like Darth Zannah who was very effective with her Sorcery but not a great Lightsaber Duellist - However her Sorcery, was extremely effective in the Duels she fought even against superior Lightsaber Wielders (madness, Flesh dissolving tendrils that even someone as powerful as Bane could not resist, etc....)

 

I Imagine Kun to be someone with Lightsaber skill similar to Maul and Sorcery Similar/Superior to Zannah (and more) so I would expect a combination like that would be pretty Lethal in a fight.....

 

As For Jaina as I said before - I don't know too much about her- but from what I have read - I get the impression that She wasn't really genuinely on the Same Level as Caedus, but had help/circumstances that enabled her to defeat him (but you would know more than me about that)

[Wolfninjajedi]

You know there is sort of a problem here with Kun, were just speculating of him being in a new body so how can we really know what differences there would be with him prior to that, if he never even got the chance to be in a body to show anything? Edited May 3, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[MyDarkSunshine]

Kun's version of Jar'kai isn't just your typical stance though, it's one-handed with a full mastery of Niman.

 

Wouldn't such a weapon/style actually be a hindrance against the powerful strokes of Djem So? Difficult enough to block a strong attack one handed, but when doing so might severe yourself in two thanks to the second blade at the bottom of the hilt, you're left with a severely fragile defense with limited room for maneuvering; Vader need only be relentless and unforgiving to capitalize on this. In fact Jaina's style is also described as aggressive and with her shatterpoint she'd definitely be able to break through a flimsy defense.

 

It could be of course Kun has some method of getting around this, either through fast flurries, use of Force powers or a constant offensive, but if pushed back he seems at a huge disadvantage.

 

Unfortunately have limited knowledge of the characters involved, but figured that worth mentioning.

Edited May 3, 2013 by MyDarkSunshine

[Aurbere]

Am I the only one who thinks Jaina Solo's shatterpoint ability gives her an edge in lightsaber combat? Not knocking on Vader and Kun (because their abilities are very diverse), but I think Jaina's skills in lightsaber combat and her shatterpoint give her an edge.

 

Also Rayla, this is your second thread featuring Vader and Exar Kun. Curious as to why that is.

[tunewalker]

Am I the only one who thinks Jaina Solo's shatterpoint ability gives her an edge in lightsaber combat? Not knocking on Vader and Kun (because their abilities are very diverse), but I think Jaina's skills in lightsaber combat and her shatterpoint give her an edge.

 

Also Rayla, this is your second thread featuring Vader and Exar Kun. Curious as to why that is.

 

except vader has shatterpoint as well.

[fellblade]

except vader has shatterpoint as well.

 

Forgive me for my ignorance - I have actually got the Book (Shatterpoint) but have not got round to reading it yet - but I am not quite sure how Shatterpoint Specifically works in Combat .

 

I remember Windu was described as seeing Anakin as Palpatine's Shatterpoint while fighting him....but it seemed to be a bit more of a Strategic insight rather than some kind of Fighting Technique.....

[fellblade]

Wouldn't such a weapon/style actually be a hindrance against the powerful strokes of Djem So? Difficult enough to block a strong attack one handed, but when doing so might severe yourself in two thanks to the second blade at the bottom of the hilt, you're left with a severely fragile defense with limited room for maneuvering; Vader need only be relentless and unforgiving to capitalize on this. In fact Jaina's style is also described as aggressive and with her shatterpoint she'd definitely be able to break through a flimsy defense.

 

It could be of course Kun has some method of getting around this, either through fast flurries, use of Force powers or a constant offensive, but if pushed back he seems at a huge disadvantage.

 

Unfortunately have limited knowledge of the characters involved, but figured that worth mentioning.

 

Possibly - But Kun has actually designed his Saberstaff to split into 2 separate halves - so If he finds he is having trouble fighting one-handed he can easily choose to go into Jar Kai mode at any time - which (at least in Maul's hands) has proven to be effective against Vader.

 

This is definitely a good fight - it would be pretty interesting to see how each fighter would adapt and counter the other.....

[Wolfninjajedi]

Possibly - But Kun has actually designed his Saberstaff to split into 2 separate halves - so If he finds he is having trouble fighting one-handed he can easily choose to go into Jar Kai mode at any time - which (at least in Maul's hands) has proven to be effective against Vader.

 

This is definitely a good fight - it would be pretty interesting to see how each fighter would adapt and counter the other.....

 

He has?...

 

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/4/41/KunLightsaberSchematic.jpg

 

That looks to me just one piece, it looks way too small to be turned into two sabers.

[fellblade]

He has?...

 

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/4/41/KunLightsaberSchematic.jpg

 

That looks to me just one piece, it looks way too small to be turned into two sabers.

 

Maybe I am wrong then -

 

or perhaps it may have been a different (previous) incarnation of his Saber? but I swear that I have seen Him Dual-wielding 2 blue lightsabers in some comic......

 

Well at least that one doesn't look like it can split and that was his final design so We have to take Jar Kai out of the equation then - (unless he carries a spare )

And yes in this case it would be interesting to see how his one handed style handles Djem So - Blocking may be more difficult - but I can see the ability to counter more quickly against the fairly wide strokes of Form V....

[Wolfninjajedi]

Maybe I am wrong then -

 

or perhaps it may have been a different (previous) incarnation of his Saber? but I swear that I have seen Him Dual-wielding 2 blue lightsabers in some comic......

 

Well at least that one doesn't look like it can split and that was his final design so We have to take Jar Kai out of the equation then - (unless he carries a spare )

And yes in this case it would be interesting to see how his one handed style handles Djem So - Blocking may be more difficult - but I can see the ability to counter more quickly against the fairly wide strokes of Form V....

 

He did dual wield once in training however he took another lightsaber from another person

 

as show here http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1662951-new_picture__3_.jpg

 

his saberstaff was his main weapon to use either single or double bladed. Don't forget, Vader's style is more then just Djem So its a mix of everything.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[fellblade]

He did dual wield once in training however he took another lightsaber from another person

 

as show here http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1662951-new_picture__3_.jpg

 

his saberstaff was his main weapon to use either single or double bladed. Don't forget, Vader's style is more then just Djem So its a mix of everything.

 

Yes I agree -

 

This is all speculation I am not necessarily Saying that Kun will definitely beat Vader - but he certainly has his strengths.

 

I am of the opinion that Armoured Vader gets underrated a lot and is an extremely effective fighter and he had developed his own style to fit his Cyborg body in both Saber Skill and Force Powers.

I would actually take Prime Armoured Vader the VAST majority of people....(in most vs threads where he is involved - I do mostly argue his case - mainly because others can be so dismissive of him )

Vader himself is also very proficient with combining the Force very effectively with Lightsaber skills and can Overwhelm most Opponents- he also developed a lot more Patience and Strategy allowing him to adapt to more unpredictable circumstances and the Raw Power of his telekinetics easily allows him to compensate for most of his disadvantages.

 

Against Exar Kun - it will depend on how they handle each other's Lightsaber styles and maybe even more importantly - how they handle each others Force Abilities

 

Can Kun resist the Overwhelming Defence breaching power of Vaders Telekinetic Abilities?

Can Vader Resist the powerful Force Blasts and more Unpredictable and Esoteric Powers that Kun can bring to the Table?

 

These two are definitely worthy of a debate......

 

Errr Jaina (I really do need to find out more about her ).....well...... she is Pretty and a Good Pilot?

[LadyKulvax]

Wouldn't such a weapon/style actually be a hindrance against the powerful strokes of Djem So? Difficult enough to block a strong attack one handed, but when doing so might severe yourself in two thanks to the second blade at the bottom of the hilt, you're left with a severely fragile defense with limited room for maneuvering; Vader need only be relentless and unforgiving to capitalize on this. In fact Jaina's style is also described as aggressive and with her shatterpoint she'd definitely be able to break through a flimsy defense.

 

It could be of course Kun has some method of getting around this, either through fast flurries, use of Force powers or a constant offensive, but if pushed back he seems at a huge disadvantage.

 

Unfortunately have limited knowledge of the characters involved, but figured that worth mentioning.

 

Niman would allow him to adapt quickly to almost any assault, that's why it's worth it in the long run, the reason I don't think Djem-So would work as effectively here is because Kun's style was always quick, really quick, that's why he was always described as the flurry type of duellist and the moment he lost his advantage or believed he was in trouble he literally flew away or resorted to force power.

 

He has also fought against the Battlemaster of the day whom was a Djem-So master and he seemed to have no trouble against Ulic-Qel Droma a very skilled Djem-So user who had been practising the Dark Side for months by now with Kun barely having any experience with the Dark Side at that point.

 

As far as Shatterpoint goes, that is something I was waiting for, this is Jaina's ace in the hole, I doubt she is a duellist on the level of Kun and Vader, but I do imagine shatterpoint gives her at least the chance to win the duel.

 

This is where Jaina's other excellent ability comes in: Stealth, she can cloak herself so as to be undetectable as long as she doesn't show herself visually, which allows her to sit on the sidelines whilst the Sith Lords beat the snuff out of each other.

 

How effectively could this work though?

[Aurbere]

How effectively could this work though?

 

It depends on the scenario, I think. If they are just placed right in front of each other, probably not. Though there is the chance Jaina could sneak away during the chaos.

 

Regardless, if the oppurtunity for stealth presents itself, she can sit back and let the two Sith kill each other, then kill the victor.

[LadyKulvax]

It depends on the scenario, I think. If they are just placed right in front of each other, probably not. Though there is the chance Jaina could sneak away during the chaos.

 

Regardless, if the oppurtunity for stealth presents itself, she can sit back and let the two Sith kill each other, then kill the victor.

 

Except both Vader and Kun have excellent force sense ability, Luke could sense Jaina regardless and Caedus could make out what he described as something not quite right.

[Aurbere]

Except both Vader and Kun have excellent force sense ability, Luke could sense Jaina regardless and Caedus could make out what he described as something not quite right.

 

Yeah, I had just thought of that.

[Slowpokeking]

Only real threat Kun had besides a full out assault by Jedi was Ulic Qel-Droma .

 

No, it took thousands of Jedi to seal Kun off in the temple, he also just fought Ulic with one lightsaber, later he studied more Sith knowledge from the holocron and Sadow's legacy. Even Luke could not beat him alone.

[Slowpokeking]

He did dual wield once in training however he took another lightsaber from another person

 

as show here http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1662951-new_picture__3_.jpg

 

his saberstaff was his main weapon to use either single or double bladed. Don't forget, Vader's style is more then just Djem So its a mix of everything.

 

Vader's lightsaber skill is clear, weaker than Maul, not much stronger than old Obi Wan. And he could not do a thing to enraged Luke, that's clearly below the level of Kun.

[Slowpokeking]

The fight between old Obi Wan and Vader took like 90 seconds but he still had no advantage before Obi Wan gave up.

 

It took Dooku less than 1 minute to take down EP III Obi Wan, when he was fighting Anakin at the same time. Dooku would have won against Anakin if Sidious didn't help Anakin to manage his fear.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Slowpokeking

[Wolfninjajedi]

Vader's lightsaber skill is clear, weaker than Maul, not much stronger than old Obi Wan. And he could not do a thing to enraged Luke, that's clearly below the level of Kun.

 

It isn't weaker then Maul, the two were fighting pretty evenly up until Vader cut Maul's saber in half, Kun isn't going to have the advantage of two sabers here if his saber is destroyed. Luke being below Kun?....Right, the fact that it took a short time for Luke to match his father thanks to his ridiculous learning curve shows a testament to his skill. Just because Vader lost to Luke who had to tap into the darkside to even beat him, when before they were dueling as perfect equals doesn't mean Vader is below Kun.

 

 

Again...Obi-Wan was going to lose, no matter what happened he just chose to give up and Vader was being cautious not wanting to make a mistake just because he was fighting against his old master.

 

You seem to try and lowball Vader, but let me ask you something. Who has Kun fought? His master Vodo, Ulic, Odan....the latter of which Odan who was pretty much a librarian...the only ones with any reputable skill that Kun fought was Ulic and Vodo.

 

Whereas Vader, you see him fight against a list of Force Users, sometimes more then 1 on 1.

 

There is also the issue of, Kun could very well have slipped in his saber combat being that if were going at his prime just in a body. For 4,000 years Kun was just a spirit, he couldn't train himself and better himself in saber combat so he is going to be stuck 4,000 years behind in his old fighting ways.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Slowpokeking]

It isn't weaker then Maul, the two were fighting pretty evenly up until Vader cut Maul's saber in half, Kun isn't going to have the advantage of two sabers here if his saber is destroyed. Luke being below Kun?....Right, the fact that it took a short time for Luke to match his father thanks to his ridiculous learning curve shows a testament to his skill. Just because Vader lost to Luke who had to tap into the darkside to even beat him, when before they were dueling as perfect equals doesn't mean Vader is below Kun.

 

He is, does he have any way to counter Maul's dual wielding? If not then he's weaker. And it's very easy for Kun to get another lightsaber.

 

It took Luke much more effort to finish Kun, and he require other's help.

 

Again...Obi-Wan was going to lose, no matter what happened he just chose to give up and Vader was being cautious not wanting to make a mistake just because he was fighting against his old master.

 

Nowhere mentioned it, Obi Wan could not get away because the stormtroopers were surrounding him.

The fight already took longer than Dooku VS Obi Wan in EP III, and that's with Anakin's help.

 

You seem to try and lowball Vader, but let me ask you something. Who has Kun fought? His master Vodo, Ulic, Odan....the latter of which Odan who was pretty much a librarian...the only ones with any reputable skill that Kun fought was Ulic and Vodo.

 

It took thousands of Jedi's power to seal Kun off, and even Luke require others' help to beat him, that clearly put him over Vader.

[GarfieldJL]

No, it took thousands of Jedi to seal Kun off in the temple, he also just fought Ulic with one lightsaber, later he studied more Sith knowledge from the holocron and Sadow's legacy. Even Luke could not beat him alone.

 

Exar Kun was also stealing the life force of his slaves in order to attempt to gain immortality at the time too...

 

Luke couldn't beat him alone, but Exar Kun couldn't kill Luke on his own either... He needed to use Kyp Durron to drive Luke from his body, then he manipulated Streen and sent a few flying creatures (that got slaughtered by an R2 unit and a toddler)...

 

Then Exar Kun got bumped off by toddlers and a bunch of rank amateurs whom were using the force...

 

If you argue Maul's saber abilities were on par with Exar Kun, remember Maul still lost to Vader...

 

Additionally Jaina is still in this, if she has a choice as to who to plan to take down first, she'd be gunning for Exar Kun... Even if Exar Kun can take on Vader and win, the odds of him being able to take on Vader and Jaina at the same time is rather doubtful...

 

If nothing else Anakin Skywalker is Jaina's grandfather, and it is highly unlikely she'd stand by while Exar Kun kills him.

[Slowpokeking]

Exar Kun was also stealing the life force of his slaves in order to attempt to gain immortality at the time too...

 

Luke couldn't beat him alone, but Exar Kun couldn't kill Luke on his own either... He needed to use Kyp Durron to drive Luke from his body, then he manipulated Streen and sent a few flying creatures (that got slaughtered by an R2 unit and a toddler)...

 

Then Exar Kun got bumped off by toddlers and a bunch of rank amateurs whom were using the force...

 

If you argue Maul's saber abilities were on par with Exar Kun, remember Maul still lost to Vader...

 

Additionally Jaina is still in this, if she has a choice as to who to plan to take down first, she'd be gunning for Exar Kun... Even if Exar Kun can take on Vader and win, the odds of him being able to take on Vader and Jaina at the same time is rather doubtful...

 

If nothing else Anakin Skywalker is Jaina's grandfather, and it is highly unlikely she'd stand by while Exar Kun kills him.

 

Because he's out of a body. And before he stole the holocron, he killed Grand Master Odan-Urr with one shot, and beat Aleema with one blast as well.

 

Maul lost because he made similar mistake like he did in EP I, not because his lightsaber skill is not good. I don't think Maul is as good as Kun.