The Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's PVE DPS Compendium

[oaceen]

added info about relics

 

 

still working on dirty fighting. everyone wants to do nightmare lately, and my scoundrel isn't geared for it yet, so he isn't getting much experience even with scrapper.

 

 

 

 

also i was working on my opening rotation and thought a good rule of thumb could be:

Blaster Whip > Atk1 > Atk2 > Atk3 > Repeat

and every other Atk1 is replaced by Back Blast, and Shoot First can be filled into the gaps where available.

 

this caused a problem with Blaster Whip > Shoot First as that builds 2 stacks of Upper Hand, so the only way UH isn't wasted is if all of them are used up beforehand.

 

i will test this out and see how it goes, but the only way i can see it being very feasible is if Sucker Punch uses up all of those stacks before the block repeats

 

i could suggest Atk 2 or Atk 3 instead, but i worry that might be difficult as well

 

BW > Sucker Punch > SF could still run into the same problem anyway. SF > BW is exactly the same problem as well, so maybe throwing as many SPs before BW > SF will be the way to go?

 

 

anyone have any thoughts? or maybe i'm completely overthinking the problem lol

[Anyakaschala]

Didn't really see it but if I missed it, I apologize.

 

What should the stat priority be for scrapper and/or dirty fighting. Mainly I see this thread focused on scrapper, which I'm starting to enjoy, but I'm still at a little bit of a loss on the stats.

 

Is Accuracy as big of an issue as it is with other classes? Should you get to 110% for ops boss fights?

 

power vs crit? Is the 30% crit then the rest to power still the way to go as it has been?

Alacrity/surge? Which way to go?

 

And in terms of gear, I've also heard that some people use a 2piece pvp for the extra flyby tick? Thoughts on that vs the 4pc bonus on tier gear

Edited July 5, 2013 by Anyakaschala

[oaceen]

Didn't really see it but if I missed it, I apologize.

 

What should the stat priority be for scrapper and/or dirty fighting. Mainly I see this thread focused on scrapper, which I'm starting to enjoy, but I'm still at a little bit of a loss on the stats.

 

Is Accuracy as big of an issue as it is with other classes? Should you get to 110% for ops boss fights?

 

power vs crit? Is the 30% crit then the rest to power still the way to go as it has been?

Alacrity/surge? Which way to go?

 

And in terms of gear, I've also heard that some people use a 2piece pvp for the extra flyby tick? Thoughts on that vs the 4pc bonus on tier gear

 

i haven't gotten around to the stat part yet. i apologize, but i've been away for a while visiting family for the past couple of weeks, and now with the 4th of july weekend, i'm even busier.

 

as to your question, 100/110% accuracy is absolutely the way to go, and this is now true for all dps classes since ops bosses have 10% defense as well as 10% resistance now.

as far as crit and power are concerned, i don't know. from what i can tell though, the difference between having 0 crit and 800 power versus 0 power and 800 crit seems to be a fraction of a fraction of a percent, so it's mostly up to personal preference.

 

i think for PVE, a scrapper would probably want to focus more on power so their contributions during ops fights are less based on RNG

for dirty fighting, i think a bit more crit should be added in because bleed crits restore energy.

 

again, how much of each should be based on personal preference. from what i've been reading on the forums, most people are going for absolute 0 crit or ~200

 

 

as far as alacrity / surge is concerned, i honestly don't know either. i have a little bit of alacrity just because i like being at 10% on my scrapper, but i have some maths i need to do about the regen stuff for scoundrels that i don't recall off the top of my head. basically, at least on the tooltip, certain percentages of alacrity give a bonus to regen

for example, 1%, 2%, and 3% could all say 6.1 energy, but 4% might say 6.2

i don't know if it's just rounding off on the tooltip or actually rounding off in the mechanic of energy regen itself, but i'll go more in-depth with that when i finally get to putting this into the guide.

 

 

 

as far as set bonuses go, i would say 2/2 for backblast / blaster whip crit is probably the best way to go

the extra flyby tick is very nice. honestly, anything is better than the 4-set bonus. it's absolute garbage. my scrapper still has the old +15% back blast crit set bonus because he's really unlucky on rolling for gear with set bonuses, and i don't even notice a difference not having the 4-set.

 

+5 energy isn't even that great on its own, but when you factor in that going into lower regen happens at percentages rather than base numbers (ie: 60% of max instead of 60 energy), you actually go into lower regen at 62 (not 60), so it's actually only worth 3 extra energy for the top tier regen.

 

 

 

and this guide is more tailored to scrapper because that's the spec i play and most enjoy. i have little experience with dirty fighting, and none in a raid setting, so i'm looking for people to contribute and hopefully get some experience myself with it. lately all my guild has wanted to do is nightmare tfb, and my commando is more geared than my scoundrel, so he doesn't get much of a chance to raid at the moment.

 

hopefully i've answered adequately enough for you for now. sorry it's not available now, but basically all the information in this post, fleshed out and a bit more easy to read, will be added to the guide soon.

Edited July 6, 2013 by oaceen

[oaceen]

i have finishing my synthesis of the opener explanation as well as expanded the single-target rotation for Scrapper

 

i now consider the scrapper portion of the guide to be complete (aside from slight formatting changes) unless parts of it come across and too confusing and need further revision

 

thanks everyone for your replies and questions so far and your patience with me as i finish the guide

 

 

 

currently working on:

 

• dirty fighting (doing lots of dailies lately to try this out, but no ops yet unfortunately)
   
  
• stats and gearing
   
  
• disappearing act + out of combat rezzes
   
  
• explanation of how scoundrel should negotiate specific fight mechanics
  

[obliminator]

This is amazing.

I think you just convinced me to actually play my scoundrel (sitting at level 10 for way too long).

That being said, I don't really understand the point of having alacrity - if you have 4-move blocks centered around a 6-second CD, alacrity doesn't let you attack any faster anyway. Is it only for energy regen?

[oaceen]

This is amazing.

I think you just convinced me to actually play my scoundrel (sitting at level 10 for way too long).

That being said, I don't really understand the point of having alacrity - if you have 4-move blocks centered around a 6-second CD, alacrity doesn't let you attack any faster anyway. Is it only for energy regen?

 

that's a good question, and i suppose i should have expanded upon it during my explanation that it's a strict and rigid 6s rotation

 

basically, many times an attack will have to come between, such as being at 2 stacks of upper hand and using another sucker punch, or getting a lack of flying fist procs and needing to get some energy back with flurry of bolts, etc.

so if you can imagine [block 1][Filler][block 2]

additionally, back blast will not always come immediately after blaster whip.

 

 

but that said, i think yes, the main thing about alacrity is the energy regen increase. scoundrels already get a 20% bonus from Street Tough which additionally gets multiplied by alacrity (so the base regen that's increased by alacrity is 6/s, not 5/s)

 

 

i'll go back and add in a few notes about what i mentioned above to help that a bit more clear

[dipstik]

someone named ino has been doing a bunch of spreadsheets over at mmo-mechanics and for scrapper and dirty fighting he got:

 

Cunning 3,327

Aim 155

Power 1,423

Tech Power 2,012

Crit Rating 0

Surge Rating 158

Accuracy 474

Alacrity 158

 

for BiS

 

he still needs to compare scrapper to parses, but i guess dirty fighting fit with parses.

[oaceen]

thanks so much for the info, dipstik. this will really help when i get to the gearing part.

 

 

 

you say this is for both dirty fighting and scrapper or just dirty fighting? (i'm a little unclear)

 

so i know this is for underworld gear, but i'm wondering about the 474 value for accuracy, as i believe only 432 is needed for 100/110% (with 3% from tree and 1% from companion affection)

 

5 kell dragon tier pieces (86) = 430 (so it's basically perfectly aligned with the stat weight)

 

5 underworld pieces (79) + augment (32) = 427

 

so i'm guessing the 45 or so wasted accuracy is better than swapping 32 cunning for accuracy on the agument and getting 79 of either surge/alacrity?

 

 

it's really sad that crit is useless. i figured it would at least be useful for dirty fighting (i know my hybrid gunslinger friends used the 'magic' 200 number), but you say this is for dirty fighting as well, so then i'm guessing the 12% crit chance from black market equipment is enough for the energy regen or was that not taken into account?

 

 

i know you didn't create it, so you may not have all the answers.

could you post a link to the post you mentioned? i searched around on mmo-mechanics, but didn't find it

 

 

also, a related question, i believe the best set bonus now is 2 / 2 for +15% back blast / blaster whip

as this lowers the overall cunning value, do you think that needs to be taken into account?

Edited July 15, 2013 by oaceen

[dipstik]

you have to get access to the spreadsheet: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-419-page-23.html

 

just use the link in his sig.

 

what you suggested gave a dps improvement of 9 dps.

 

using one accuracy augment is also something i have seen in other classes.

 

playing around with ino spreadsheet for scrapper, it looks like the new 2 set pve, pvp 2 set, one accuracy augment, gives BiS at:

 

Stats Value

Cunning 3,290.52

Aim 155.

Power 1,423

Tech Power 2,012.

Crit Rating 0.

Surge Rating 237

Accuracy 427

Alacrity 158

 

the backblast set bonus gives 20 dps, blaster whip gives 20 and 1 tick of orbiotal gives 60. i was suprised when using the old 2 pve and new 2 pve that 0 crit was still predicted as BiS.

Edited July 15, 2013 by dipstik

[oaceen]

thanks again for the info.

 

so orbital strike + other 2-set bonus is BiS? is this true even for single target, or does the 60 take AOE into account?\

 

and which would you say is more beneficial? the old 2-set or the new 2-set?

i think at any rate back blast crit set bonus would have more value in scrapper than dirty fighting for the reasons that it's an integral part of the rotation and also with the crit multiplier, but i wonder if it's enough to make it worth more than the blaster whip set bonus do you think?

if they're worth 20 dps, and the new armorings have more cunning, it would be blaster whip crit, right?

 

i think it's really sad that the 4-set bonus is so useless

 

it's also really sad that crit is useless even with the 2/2 pve set bonuses :/

Edited July 16, 2013 by oaceen

[Ardarell_Solo]

Wow, comprehensive guide, thank you so much for your effort!

 

Can you give out a rough number as to how much dps one should be doing this way with 72 BiS gear (interested in Scrapper specc primarily)?

Edited July 22, 2013 by Ardarell_Solo

[oaceen]

Can you give out a rough number as to how much dps one should be doing this way with 72 BiS gear (interested in Scrapper specc primarily)?

 

i don't have anywhere close to full 72 on mine, so i can't really say.

[Aikion]

Wow, comprehensive guide, thank you so much for your effort!

 

Can you give out a rough number as to how much dps one should be doing this way with 72 BiS gear (interested in Scrapper specc primarily)?

 

I don't get to play Scrapper much in PvE. I'll see if my Ops group lets me try it this week.

 

For comparison I pulled 2543 DPS in Dirty Fighting spec on Dread Master Stryak 8m HM Sunday night. I felt this fight is a good measuring stick for how your dps stacks up. This was in non-optimal 69 and 72 mixed gear, no inspiration, and most of the fight with the armor debuff on stuff I'm killing.

 

My stats fully buffed and stimed:

 

1528.7 Bonus Tech Damage

• 3287 Cunning - +657.3
  
• 1460 Power - +335.8
  
• 2012 Tech Power - +462.8
  
• Skills/Buffs - +72.8
  

110.48% Tech Accuracy

22.54% Tech Crit Chance

• Base - 5%
  
• 3287 Cunning - +8.54%
  
• Skills/Buffs - 9%
  

68.38% Critical Multiplier

• Base - 50%
  
• 309 Surge Rating - +17.38%
  
• Skills/Buffs - +1%
  
• 2% Alacrity
  

 

I also have 155 Aim which effects my flurry of bolts . I'll see about trying Scrapper on it this week.

[Ardarell_Solo]

thx for the info, that's pretty darn good with that kind of gear, very impressive! looking forward to your findings as scrapper :-)

[dipstik]

that was a typo. the backblast gives 20 while blaster whip gives 30. you get 2 blaster whips for every backblast, so it makes some sense i guess.\

 

and the orb strike is for single target. you basically get an extra 4k damage every min so that comes to 67 dps, so 60 seems legit.

 

for fights where i save orbital for a phase i switch out the pvp set bonus for the old backblast bonus. TWH, thrasher, titan... basically any fight with adds to burn down.

[oaceen]

8/5/13: Guide complete

added section about stats and gearing including power vs crit, alacrity vs surge vs accuracy, and a note about set bonuses and augments

 

added complete section on dirty fighting

(i know i didn't add any detail about the skill tree, but i don't feel it's absolutely necessary, so unless there is a request for me to do so, i will leave it out of the guide)

 

 

please don't hesitate to post if you feel anything is inaccurate or missing or have general questions about the guide.

Edited August 5, 2013 by oaceen

[Aikion]

8/5/13: Guide complete

added section about stats and gearing including power vs crit, alacrity vs surge vs accuracy, and a note about set bonuses and augments

 

added complete section on dirty fighting

(i know i didn't add any detail about the skill tree, but i don't feel it's absolutely necessary, so unless there is a request for me to do so, i will leave it out of the guide)

 

 

please don't hesitate to post if you feel anything is inaccurate or missing or have general questions about the guide.

 

My personal preference for applying DoTs is to do VS>SB>HB at the start of a fight or on a new target. Then when i reapply i switch up the rotation and apply VS right before HB comes off CD, then apply HB , and finally apply SB.

 

This has to do with the duration of the DoTs and the cooldown of HB lining up better this way. (18s for VS and 15s for SB, and 15s CD for HB). This way you never really have to track your DoTs on a target, you only have to watch the cooldown on HB during a boss fight. Which helps sometimes when I'm with a DF Gunslinger.

[oaceen]

My personal preference for applying DoTs is to do VS>SB>HB at the start of a fight or on a new target. Then when i reapply i switch up the rotation and apply VS right before HB comes off CD, then apply HB , and finally apply SB.

 

This has to do with the duration of the DoTs and the cooldown of HB lining up better this way. (18s for VS and 15s for SB, and 15s CD for HB). This way you never really have to track your DoTs on a target, you only have to watch the cooldown on HB during a boss fight. Which helps sometimes when I'm with a DF Gunslinger.

 

i'll try this out and see if i want to have both or just go with your suggestion.

 

but i might be busy tomorrow with a bunch of new ewoks <_<

Edited August 6, 2013 by oaceen

[Aikion]

i'll try this out and see if i want to have both or just go with your suggestion.

 

but i might be busy tomorrow with a bunch of new ewoks <_<

 

It will definitely blow your mind how easy it makes tracking your DoT durations. And, same.

[Gondolindhrim]

My personal preference for applying DoTs is to do VS>SB>HB at the start of a fight or on a new target. Then when i reapply i switch up the rotation and apply VS right before HB comes off CD, then apply HB , and finally apply SB.

 

This has to do with the duration of the DoTs and the cooldown of HB lining up better this way. (18s for VS and 15s for SB, and 15s CD for HB). This way you never really have to track your DoTs on a target, you only have to watch the cooldown on HB during a boss fight. Which helps sometimes when I'm with a DF Gunslinger.

Shrap Bomb is 21s, not 18.

 

Personally, I normally use SB > Filler > VS and refresh that every 21s, although I've been meaning to try prioritizing maximum DoT uptime (i.e. starting rotation SB > VS and refresh DoTs upon expiration) in a few parses and see if that ends up producing higher DPS.

[Aikion]

Shrap Bomb is 21s, not 18.

 

Personally, I normally use SB > Filler > VS and refresh that every 21s, although I've been meaning to try prioritizing maximum DoT uptime (i.e. starting rotation SB > VS and refresh DoTs upon expiration) in a few parses and see if that ends up producing higher DPS.

Hey you're right about the Shrap Bomb duration. I'll have to investigate what exactly is going on a bit more.

[Taelizalde]

Great guide, deserves more attention here

[CJAShadow]

Thank you for the guide, Dps Scoundrel rotations pre 2.0 were very clumsy, that's why I became a sawbones healer for Nim runs and other hard content, but I really enjoy Dpsing on my Scoundrel when I can work on my rotation.

 

I enjoy the most playing a scrapper dps, and in some fights I feel that the higher single target burst with a short super bleed is better. Dirty Fighting is just so much more mobile and easier to parse higher with, especially in execute phases and with lots of Adds.

 

Scrapper-> TFB last boss

 

DF-> Dread Guard

 

3 questions:

 

1) Is the 2 set Freighter Flyby bonus from pvp really better for scrappers then the 2 set old back blast bonus? I would have thought that all the increases to it from the Scrapper tree would make it better.

 

2) Shouldn't your opening rotation be a little bit different? technically your first bleed comes from Flechette round, and so I go SF>BW>SP>VS>BB so that I start my cooldowns on BW and SP procing a little earlier.

 

Flyby will take the next BB spot in the opening rotation if I could get close to the boss.

 

3) Does Pugnacity give enough of a damage boost from increased alacrity to use on cooldown or should we only use it if we don't proc UH, have lots of energy, and have nothing on cooldown?

Edited August 11, 2013 by CJAShadow

[oaceen]

Personally, I normally use SB > Filler > VS and refresh that every 21s, although I've been meaning to try prioritizing maximum DoT uptime (i.e. starting rotation SB > VS and refresh DoTs upon expiration) in a few parses and see if that ends up producing higher DPS.

i considered mentioning this, and i know some scoundrels who do this, and i think it can work great in really hectic fights as it's a much easier rotation to do.

but i think it's a little inefficient, especially since vital shot has a 25% chance to tick twice, thus doing more damage than shrap bomb.

also, a little bit of lag will allow one of the ticks of nice try to tick, which should never happen when HB is up, and should be avoided in general otherwise.

Great guide, deserves more attention here

thank you so much for saying!

Thank you for the guide, Dps Scoundrel rotations pre 2.0 were very clumsy, that's why I became a sawbones healer for Nim runs and other hard content, but I really enjoy Dpsing on my Scoundrel when I can work on my rotation.

 

I enjoy the most playing a scrapper dps, and in some fights I feel that the higher single target burst with a short super bleed is better. Dirty Fighting is just so much more mobile and easier to parse higher with, especially in execute phases and with lots of Adds.

 

Scrapper-> TFB last boss

 

DF-> Dread Guard

when my scrapper does TFB, he is often the one who goes out to kill the irregularities during phase 2, and can dispatch them fairly quickly

my commando doesn't have as much trouble now, but back when grav round had to build up, it took a long time in comparison.

 

3 questions:

 

1) Is the 2 set Freighter Flyby bonus from pvp really better for scrappers then the 2 set old back blast bonus? I would have thought that all the increases to it from the Scrapper tree would make it better.

dipstik did the math and can probably explain it a bit better.

 

basically though: 15% crit chance for 5 back blasts (5 per minute) = 1 extra tick of xs freighter flyby

 

2) Shouldn't your opening rotation be a little bit different? technically your first bleed comes from Flechette round, and so I go SF>BW>SP>VS>BB so that I start my cooldowns on BW and SP procing a little earlier.

 

Flyby will take the next BB spot in the opening rotation if I could get close to the boss.

this is inefficient 70% of the time as BW will come off CD after BB, but if SP procs round two, you'll have 2 stacks of upper hand.

 

if you check the opener closely, FR dots are spaced 6s apart, and vital shot actually does a lot of damage, so it should be up as much as possible, not just to get upper hand procs with turn the tables

 

3) Does Pugnacity give enough of a damage boost from increased alacrity to use on cooldown or should we only use it if we don't proc UH, have lots of energy, and have nothing on cooldown?

i generally use it along with cool head unless i have 2 stacks of upper hand.

the real damage boost imo is an extra sucker punch you can throw in.

 

that said, 20% alacrity (10% from pugnacity + 6% from rolling punches + 2% from black market mods + 2% from gear) is 5 attacks in 6s instead of only 4, so it can do quite a lot with your adrenal, on-use relic, inspiration, etc. to throw out some quick attacks successively and get the most out of the damage boost without pushing back your rotation.

Edited August 11, 2013 by oaceen

[oaceen]

so i know that my guide includes the use of quick shot for scrapper (even with the caveat that it's rarely used)

 

i'm finding now that fitting sabo into my rotation is not difficult, and i used quick shot so rarely that i just took it off of my bar.

 

 

is that roughly what everyone is finding? i'm considering taking quickshot completely out and putting some info about sabotage charge for scrapper.

 

is anyone using this for dirty fighting? i don't really feel it has a place in the rotation as back blast fills any gaps fairly nicely, but if anyone disagrees, i'll test it out.

 

 

 

still need to test out aikion's opener as well. been too busy with tauntauns, ewoks, and bounty hunting. oops.

Edited August 15, 2013 by oaceen