Subscription: Advertisement vs Truth

[ML_DoubleTap]

By contrast... I for the most part save my monthly allotment. I only spend on things that I cannot aquire off the GTN for reasonable price. Most often.. I spend to buy legacy speeder access for a new character or an unlock that is IMO too pricey in game (such as the last slot in a cargo bay, and even these.. I buy the unlock off the GTN most of the time). I have never purchased coins and I currently have almost 3000.

 

My point? The personal economics of cartel coins is personal. It in no way reflects any form of entitlement to have something free from Bioware just becasue of how one manages their cartel coins.

 

I don't feel entitled to anything. I simply expressed my displeasure with their plan. I don't feel I was overly aggressive or 'ranting' as someone else mentioned. I certainly didn't threaten legal action like that same poster described...that would be silly. I just simply expressed that I wasn't happy w/ the way they appear to be handling it. I was even sure to say that it won't change my enjoyment of the game and I won't be playing any less. However, if anyone says anything remotely negative you instantly cast them as a whiner. Step back for a moment and allow people an opinion without casting insults. I wasn't disrespectful to BW or any other posters.

[RepublicPilot]

I believe the issue that you wanted to have addressed is that currently it states "Full access to all character creation choices." As of this moment this terminology is still correct as subscribers do have full access to those choices. We will be updating that page (along with any others that make similar references) once Game Update 2.1 goes live.

 

-eric

 

Ha ha ha, too funny. Let's just hope this one is updated quicker than your "monthly name change" offer was on the subscriber perks page.

[Lostpenguins]

Its like me telling you I am giving yo a $10 allowance to go and have fun, and a month later I come to you and say, if you want to eat, use your allowance.

Oh, look, another bad example. No, that's like the parent telling the child that they will have to use their own allowance they've saved up to by a new video game. They don't have to pay for any of the games they've gotten before, but now they're going to have start buying those. Eating is something necessary in this world. Playing the Cathar race is not. Bad analogy is bad.

[CosmicKat]

Wow... look, it's CosmicKat with the bad analogies.

 

Total # of playable races before 2.1 w/out add'l costs to play them: 9.

Total # of playable races on and after 2.1 w/out add'l costs to play them: 9.

 

That doesn't look like a reduction to me. So really, it's 30g to 30g, they just offered you the ability to get a 35mg version for a slightly higher cost (if you can't save up 600 coins from your sub stipend which means, it's basically free).

 

If you are fine with them redefining the terms of your subscription on a whim, then more power to you.

 

I'm sure you and your buds will spend the next few pages telling us all how we're all wrong and how we should be thankful and happy for all new extra-charge content that surely would never have existed without us being charged for it.

 

I'm also sure that you and your buds will fall back on your standard response when your logic fails to sway anyone... "If you don't like it, just leave." Otherwise known as the MMO forum equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?"

[Andryah]

I don't feel entitled to anything. I simply expressed my displeasure with their plan. I don't feel I was overly aggressive or 'ranting' as someone else mentioned. I certainly didn't threaten legal action like that same poster described...that would be silly. I just simply expressed that I wasn't happy w/ the way they appear to be handling it. I was even sure to say that it won't change my enjoyment of the game and I won't be playing any less. However, if anyone says anything remotely negative you instantly cast them as a whiner. Step back for a moment and allow people an opinion without casting insults. I wasn't disrespectful to BW or any other posters.

 

I replied to you respectfully and in context, because you did so in kind. Where in my response did I accuse you of anything? Where did I cast you as whiner in my response?

[Lostpenguins]

If you are fine with them redefining the terms of your subscription on a whim, then more power to you.

 

I'm sure you and your buds will spend the next few pages telling us all how we're all wrong and how we should be thankful and happy for all new extra-charge content that surely would never have existed without us being charged for it.

 

I'm also sure that you and your buds will fall back on your standard response when your logic fails to sway anyone... "If you don't like it, just leave." Otherwise known as the MMO forum equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?"

I love you how didn't even have something to respond with about how bad your analogy was because BW isn't taking anything away from you. They're just giving people who want to option to play the new race the option to do so w/out charging others (like me) to have to unlock something that I will never play. They're giving options, giving a sub the ability to get it for free, and all I hear from people like you is bad analogies as if they're taking our freedoms away, cry, cry, cry.

 

It's laughably ridiculous. So, the question I have for you is: You're very much against the CM and it's vanity items... when are you going to finally quit? When is the last straw for you?

[CosmicKat]

I love you how didn't even have something to respond with about how bad your analogy was because BW isn't taking anything away from you. They're just giving people who want to option to play the new race the option to do so w/out charging others (like me) to have to unlock something that I will never play. They're giving options, giving a sub the ability to get it for free, and all I hear from people like you is bad analogies as if they're taking our freedoms away, cry, cry, cry.

 

It's laughably ridiculous. So, the question I have for you is: You're very much against the CM and it's vanity items... when are you going to finally quit? When is the last straw for you?

 

Wow. Looks like the bat signal was lit.

 

General Forum Spin Team! Assemble!

[Mark-JPS]

Pretty much the Game Update 2.1 will not benefit us in any way except them. The Customization update is purely cash grab. So subscribers have to pay for the customizations. Lol that's smart. Makeb and Cathar was supposed to be a 'free update' but was later changed to something we have to pay.

 

One thing some people learned from Bioware now: don't believe what they say unless it's there right in front of you. Anything can change and if there's no money involved, Bioware will not do it.

[ninjonxb]

Pretty much the Game Update 2.1 will not benefit us in any way except them. The Customization update is purely cash grab. So subscribers have to pay for the customizations. Lol that's smart. Makeb and Cathar was supposed to be a 'free update' but was later changed to something we have to pay.

 

One thing some people learned from Bioware now: don't believe what they say unless it's there right in front of you. Anything can change and if there's no money involved, Bioware will not do it.

 

So tell me... Where did they ever say it was going to be a free update. All I ever saw was them saying it was coming.

People may have assumed (which is stupid, complaining that they are not doing what you assumed...)

 

Talking about Cathar not Makeb btw

Edited April 29, 2013 by ninjonxb

[Andryah]

Wow. Looks like the bat signal was lit.

 

General Forum Spin Team! Assemble!

 

Actually.. he asked you a question and it is you that went into a full tilt spinfest right there.

[Andryah]

They're just giving people who want to option to play the new race the option to do so w/out charging others (like me) to have to unlock something that I will never play. They're giving options, giving a sub the ability to get it for free, and all I hear from people like you is bad analogies as if they're taking our freedoms away, cry, cry, cry.

 

It does continue to amaze me that people don't want options. They complain if they don't get them of course.. but then you give them and they don't want them. And they invent all manner of hyperbole to defend why they don't want them.

[CosmicKat]

So tell me... Where did they ever say it was going to be a free update. All I ever saw was them saying it was coming.

People may have assumed (which is stupid, complaining that they are not doing what you assumed...)

 

Talking about Cathar not Makeb btw

 

I'm not sure if they ever said Cathar would be free or not.

 

Since the announcement/teasers for it began long before the CM was a glint in the accountants' eyes, one would not be leaping to conclusions to assume that it was not going to be an extra charge item. Mind you, back then they were in full-on scramble mode trying to stem the hemorrhaging of subscriptions though, so promises and "good news" items were being thrown around like candy.

[Starglitter]

Oh, look, another bad example. No, that's like the parent telling the child that they will have to use their own allowance they've saved up to by a new video game. They don't have to pay for any of the games they've gotten before, but now they're going to have start buying those. Eating is something necessary in this world. Playing the Cathar race is not. Bad analogy is bad.

 

I may concede the analogy I used not to be perfect, yours is not right either but closer.

 

As I viewed, I am a subscriber, and thus subject to the agreement of the subscription terms which are nicely listed, this you are told for your subscription free (I payed for a three month period) I get credits, number of character slots, etc)

 

For many of us old timers, we have seen the benefits of subscription greatly change over th epast decade with the change of business practices incurred due to Free to Play. Obviously to the old timers, who are paying, the perception that all bells and whistles that comes with the game should be available; it used to be so for the past 20 years, so its not without cause. To a Free to Play person, essentially contributes nothing to buy for the upkeep of the game, they do not expect much out of the game, unless the pay for it in some sort or manner; once more nothing wrong with this. The concept of the company store, where you buy goodies for cash or buy credits for cash is a means for FTP to contribute to the upkeep of the game, and tha tmuch makes sense and is non-controversial.

 

The controversy begins, when the paying players, don't get all the content which historically has been the practice. It makes matters more complex, when the subscribed player, buys an expansion and thus expecting a return for their investment, would not anyone of us to? Then a few days later, after the release of the expansion, new material is released in the form of an update and surprise, surprise its not available to neither the subscriber nor the expansion payer unless they pay more money for it or use credits they paid for from the subscription price.

 

As a rule, I have no issues with charging for everything extra to a FTP, but to a subscriber and expansion buyer both? Seems a bit on the wrong side, yet perfectrly legal.

 

Sue

[Shingara]

Wow. Looks like the bat signal was lit.

 

General Forum Spin Team! Assemble!

 

There is a bat signal?????, hell to this im comin just to see that. Im curious, if the people who like the game have a bat signal what are the haters using.................

Edited April 29, 2013 by Shingara

[LrdRahvin]

There is a bat signal?????, hell to this im comin just to see that. Im curious, if the people who like the game have a bat signal what are the haters using.................

 

The Bolster Signal

[Foambreaker]

Just a reminder.. We as subscibers have always had to purchase additional races that we didn't have.. What is the issue here?? You either had to level one to 50, or buy it.. This one is just to purchase on the CM.. So what?? 600CC big deal..

 

So seriously.. Truth is truth here.. There is nothing wrong with them putting the new Cathar race in the Cartel Market..

 

If we didn't have to buy all the others ones, you might have a complaint.. But they are not doing anything that they didn't already do before..

 

Just lol, we don't have to buy any races unless you want to skip playing the race in its primary faction/class.

[Lostpenguins]

It does continue to amaze me that people don't want options. They complain if they don't get them of course.. but then you give them and they don't want them. And they invent all manner of hyperbole to defend why they don't want them.

People would rather have them charge $40 for the expansion, but throw in the Cathar race into the package so they thing they're getting it for "free". That's like saying you can buy a burger for $2 and fries for $1, but some people would rather there only be an option for the $3 that includes burgers and fries and now the people who don't like fries have to pay more money for something they'll never use.

 

It's this sort of attitude where people try to blur the line of "false advertising" with "feigning ignorance to act like I'm a victim" that causes all sort of problems.

[Shingara]

The Bolster Signal

 

Aha that explains why there arguments are broken and they feel over inflated

Edited April 29, 2013 by Shingara

[CosmicKat]

There is a bat signal?????, hell to this im comin just to see that. Im curious, if the people who like the game have a bat signal what are the haters using.................

 

The actual haters, all 1.5 million of them, used the "cancel sub" button.

[LrdRahvin]

Aha that explains why there arguments are broken and they feel over inflated

 

^ comment is "not broken, is feature"

 

*sigh*

*yawn*

 

/cannothearyouoverthesoundofhowwrongyouare

[Kilora]

The actual haters, all 1.5 million of them, used the "cancel sub" button.

 

I wouldn't even call them haters.

 

I'd just call them mature adults.

 

Haters are the ones that cry "I can't find the unsub button!!1!!1 It doesn't exist! BW is forcing me to stay!!1!!1!11"

[Shingara]

The actual haters, all 1.5 million of them, used the "cancel sub" button.

 

1.5 million haters on the forums, are they hiding around a corner or something. BTW where are you getting 1.5 from, did you pull that out of thin air too.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Shingara

[Lostpenguins]

I may concede the analogy I used not to be perfect, yours is not right either but closer.

 

As I viewed, I am a subscriber, and thus subject to the agreement of the subscription terms which are nicely listed, this you are told for your subscription free (I payed for a three month period) I get credits, number of character slots, etc)

 

For many of us old timers, we have seen the benefits of subscription greatly change over th epast decade with the change of business practices incurred due to Free to Play. Obviously to the old timers, who are paying, the perception that all bells and whistles that comes with the game should be available; it used to be so for the past 20 years, so its not without cause. To a Free to Play person, essentially contributes nothing to buy for the upkeep of the game, they do not expect much out of the game, unless the pay for it in some sort or manner; once more nothing wrong with this. The concept of the company store, where you buy goodies for cash or buy credits for cash is a means for FTP to contribute to the upkeep of the game, and tha tmuch makes sense and is non-controversial.

 

The controversy begins, when the paying players, don't get all the content which historically has been the practice. It makes matters more complex, when the subscribed player, buys an expansion and thus expecting a return for their investment, would not anyone of us to? Then a few days later, after the release of the expansion, new material is released in the form of an update and surprise, surprise its not available to neither the subscriber nor the expansion payer unless they pay more money for it or use credits they paid for from the subscription price.

 

As a rule, I have no issues with charging for everything extra to a FTP, but to a subscriber and expansion buyer both? Seems a bit on the wrong side, yet perfectrly legal.

 

Sue

I've been a subscriber since day 1. When the game first came out, there was no Cartel Market. Were any of these people complaining about Cathar costing Cartel Coins complaining they were getting free Cartel Coins? I seriously doubt that.

 

And yes, you bought an expansion. Does the expansion say that the Cathar race is included in the expansion? Also, you still don't see they're not charging you. They are giving you free coins to use to buy the Cathar race, free coins that they didn't have to give to anyone who originally subscribed to this game because when they started subbing they weren't getting it in the first place.

 

It's basically a double-edged sword. If you're going to complain that subbed into this game before Cathar was available and now it's unfair that you don't get the Cathar for free, then you should also be complaining that you are getting free coins to get the new race or many other things when you didn't when you first subbed.

[AshlaBoga]

I'm happy because I would rather you guys charge for this stuff over actual content. However, I dont think people are concerned with whether or not you change the wording. i think they're concerned that when F2P launched, subscriptions had certain clearly stated benefits over F2P, but now you're going back on your word and no longer providing one of these benefits. Instead of subscribers getting ALL character customization options included in our sub, we now only get MORE. To some, this makes it feel like subscriptions are losing their value.

 

But if they change the wording it's not False Advertisement which is somewhat important. Doing nothing would have backfired on BW.

[DuckimusPrime]

For pete sakes.. The Cathar species is not content.. It is vanity stuff.. To unlock the other species either cost a ton of credits or a ton of time to level a character to 50..

Currently prior to 2.1, I can select to play as any PC species in the game without levelling a character to 50 or paying a ton of credits. If I do these things, I can remove the class restriction on a species that I already had access to. No need to unlock them.