Subscription: Advertisement vs Truth

[MajikMyst]

You are comparing apples to oranges in a nice straw man argument..

 

No.. I think you are the one doing that...

 

As I have said before..

 

What did a republic player need to do to make a Chiss trooper?? Do you know?? He had to unlock the chiss species by either playing one to 50 on the imp side, or buying the unlock with either credits, as of the Market, Cartel Coins could be used as well..

 

The issue that all the QQ'ers have is that this argument is about an existing reality.. So there is no issue.. Unless you all are prepared to get up and demand that all the species be available for both factions.. None of you have much to say..

 

The Cathar is a new species and there is no reason that it should be unlocked for either faction.. It is new and being added to the game.. New meaning, not in the game at launch.. The idea of unlocking species is not new.. Not new meaning in the game at launch.. Actually in the game at beta, but who cares right??

 

The Cathar being an unlock on the Cartel Market in no way violates anything that Bioware has said about being a subscriber.. We have our monthly grant.. So we do have the ability to purchase the unlock free of charge.. It isn't biowares job to tell you how to spend your money, other than to say you get the grant for a reason.. How you spend it is your own decision.. If spent your money and have to wait.. That is your problem...

 

Like said.. There is nothing to discuss here..

[Woolai]

Well I think this will be the thing that makes me cancel my sub. Having gotten the CE with the promis of ingame vendor updates and now this, since I don't want to use bad language you can imagine what I would have written here. Anybody wonder why EA got voted the *******st company 2 years in a row.

[Shoogli]

You'll be able to do the same with the Carthar.

 

Perhaps but not with the barbershop which is coin only.

Besides this thread isn't only about Cathars, it's also about 2.1 customization and the barbershop.

 

Says many people. [...] Story = content, not cosmetics.

 

Many people say otherwise. Besides, story = story and is only a part of the content. Cosmetics, gear, vehicles, all this is content as well.

And what sparkled all these answers to what I posted is the fact I said :

 

Complimentary cartel coins are no more complimentary and with all of you saying "you gotta save them" for the new content/system/whatever instead it really means that : a whole new "meaning" of complimentary.

 

A candid subber who understood the word for what it really means just burns through his 500 or 600 CC as he gets them, on packs, on gear, on whatever, and silently thanks BW.

When Cathars are out, if the guy isn't rich with credits, and when the barbershop is out : he'll be left with a very sour taste and then only then will he understand the real meaning of BW's so-called complimentary definition.

 

That is : if he didn't understand that during Christmas already...

Edited April 30, 2013 by Shoogli

[MajikMyst]

Yeah but as a subscriber I'm not prevented from making Chiss character.

 

You are not prevented from making a Cathar either.. You get a monthly grant for a reason.. I will unlock the Cathar with my grant money.. If you have spent all yours.. Who's fault is that??

 

And you were limited as to what faction you could make your chiss.. You could not make one on the republic side could you??

 

Of course I'm not going to complain about not having access to Chiss from the start, because I do have access to them. One of the advertised benefits of subscribing is that you get full access to the games character creation options. Someone who is not a subscriber does not have to creating a Chiss character. You cannot go and spend in game credits and remove the restrictions on them.

 

Do you see how your statement is an oxymoron?? You don't have access to all races on both factions.. Some people don't want to play one faction or the other.. So your statement is a fallacy.. If you want to make a chiss trooper, you will have to unlock the species.. Subscriber or not.. This is a new race to the game.. Why should it be unlocked for both factions?? Or perhaps only Republic players get it, and imp players have to unlock it?? How would that sound?? I think that would satisfy your example.. Doesn't it??

 

The website says that as a subscriber I get full access to all character creation options. Therefore yes, as a subscriber I should be feel entitled to have access to all character creation options.

 

You do.. Some you just have to unlock.. Nothing has changed.. This is how it has always been.. I fail to see why people get bent out of shape about it..

Edited April 30, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

uuh huh

 

btw, its 500 for 1 month subs, 550 for 3 month subs and 600 for 6 month subs, also 100 for a key. more for raf etc etc but 500 is the minimum coins we get a month.

 

I thought it was 500 for subs.. 100 for CE.. 100 for security..

 

For a total available of 700cc??

 

Or am I missing something??

[Shoogli]

I thought it was 500 for subs.. 100 for CE.. 100 for security..

 

For a total available of 700cc??

 

Or am I missing something??

 

You are, CE got a 1K flat gift, but doesn't get 100 per month.

[MajikMyst]

Oh wait, didnt we just pay for a new "expansion" a couple weeks ago? I assure you the cathar race was finished long ago and could have been packaged in but EAWare chose to wait and charge more.

 

Charge more for what?? Subscribers get a monthly grant to buy it with.. For F2P players??? Your darn right!! They don't pay a month to month subscription..

 

And what is wrong with unlocking races or species?? We have been doing that since the beta!! This isn't new!! Just seems like this thread is full of chicken little's 'The sky is falling because we have to unlock a race or species..'

 

Good grief..

 

Where were you people when you learned that you had to unlock the Chiss or Sith Pure Blood to use on the republic side?? I mean my word..

Edited April 30, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

You are, CE got a 1K flat gift, but doesn't get 100 per month.

 

Oh.. Well.. Then I don't know.. Other than to say that according to my ledger I get 600 and then 100 for security..

[Shoogli]

Oh.. Well.. Then I don't know.. Other than to say that according to my ledger I get 600 and then 100 for security..

 

I'm not sure (and lazy to go check) but isn't it because you sub for like 3 or 6 months at time ?

[MajikMyst]

all those species can be unlocked through in game means. either credits. cartel coins are just one of 3 options to access them. or leveling a character. Cathar however are cartel coin only. how do you not see the difference is beyond me.

 

I don't see the difference because there is no difference.. Well.. Let me rephrase that.. There is one glaring difference that you do not see.. The game is free to play now.. The other races were added to the game prior to launch.. So the system and rules they go by are different than the Cathar today, now that the game is F2P..

 

Many of the players in SWTOR, do NOT pay a monthly subscription.. Which means any money they get out of those players will come from the Cartel Market.. To make sure they get some money from those folks, they put it in the Cartel Market.. They have to buy their coins.. Subscribers do not..

 

So it isn't an issue of me seeing the difference.. As a subscriber.. There is no difference.. Because to me, the unlock will be free.. I won't have to pay for it.. I will use my grant money that I get every month..

 

Which by the way is in full compliance with Bioware's advertisement of being a subscriber..

Edited April 30, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Shingara]

I'm not sure (and lazy to go check) but isn't it because you sub for like 3 or 6 months at time ?

 

6 month subs get 600 coins, its incrimiental at 500->550->600 and then 100 for the key, i have ce and i dont get any extra coins a month for that, i only got the extra coins when the f2p hit.

[MajikMyst]

I'm not sure (and lazy to go check) but isn't it because you sub for like 3 or 6 months at time ?

 

That could be.. I am a 6 month sub.. I just know how much I get cause of the ledger thing.. Beyond that.. I don't really pay much attention to that stuff..

[MajikMyst]

6 month subs get 600 coins, its incrimiental at 500->550->600 and then 100 for the key, i have ce and i dont get any extra coins a month for that, i only got the extra coins when the f2p hit.

 

Well.. Ok.. There we go.. I stand corrected!!

[MajikMyst]

Let me use this post as an example, as it is one of the worst in the bunch.

 

The biggest error is in saying we didn't get races for free. Wrong, we got all the races for free. Granted, some races weren't available for some classes until you unlocked them but we didn't have to pay for a single one of them. Effort is not a price. Their is no comparison between effort in game and paying CC.

 

Subscribers pay 15 bucks a month for access to everything the game has to offer. Some may require effort but that is the way of online gaming...you give effort, you get stuff. This should include new races because we've already paid for them with our ongoing subscription. We as subscribers are not asking for anything to be free, we are asking that EA/BW keep their word and give us what we've already paid for.

 

Their is NOTHING you can buy with CC that a subscriber can't get with credits or effort. If BW wants to make unlocking Cathar a quest line for subscribers...that's fine. But making it a CC only transaction goes against what they've told us was a benefit of subscribing.

 

In essence, they are saying that our 15 bucks a month isn't good enough.

 

I don't know what to say about this.. Other than the fact that you really like ranting about nothing and you think you got it all covered..

 

First and foremost.. You need learn to look at issues from a much broader perspective.. Effort is in fact something that can be considered currency or something of value.. It is an investment of time..

 

Did we get all the races free?? Yes and no.. To a player that has no desire to play one faction or the other, the faction specific races are not free.. That is just a fact.. You can dispute it all you want.. It isn't going to change anything.. Since the release of the game, the reality of unlocking races has existed.. That is also a fact..

 

Where your argument runs into problems is that you weren't able to look at the issue as a whole.. What if the Cathar were simply given to the republic players and imp players had to unlock it.. See the problem?? It is still free right?? According to you?? What if it was an imp only thing and the republic had to unlock it?? Using your logic.. It would still be free.. Even though 1 faction or the other would have to either level a character to 50 or pay credits or CC to unlock it.. I don't care what you say.. That is not free..

 

Credits Vs. CC.. This is actually a simple issue to address.. Pre F2P and Post F2P.. Again?? See the problem with your rant?? F2P forces the Cathar unlock to be in the Cartel Market so the F2P player can buy it.. Sadly that is the reality of a F2P game.. Bioware can no longer count on subscription money to pay the bills and keep the lights on.. So they have to make their money in other ways.. Which is why they give us subscribers a monthly grant.. So that we can buy stuff on the market, without actually having to fork out any additional money.. Although, I will admit to having bought some more coins.. The packs can be addicting..

 

Every subscriber can get it for free.. Assuming they are at least fairly decent at managing their money.. If not they may have to wait a month.. Or fork out a whopping $5 that you can probably find buried in the couch, to buy a some coins to get it now.. That is of course assuming you are not totally broke.. It is their choice and no way violates what Bioware has stated about subscribers having full access.. We have that access free of charge.. Thanks to our monthly grant.. But we also have to take responsibility for our own spending.. That isn't Bioware's issue or responsibility..

 

So you see.. All your ranting was really for nothing.. Kind of like this thread was really about nothing.. There is no violation here.. No false advertisement.. Just a few people that seem bent on QQ about something that is totally meaningless and baseless.. The idea of unlocking different species has been in the game since before launch.. Because of F2P, Bioware has to change the rules a little bit by making it a Cartel Market purchase.. But all subscribers are given at the very least 500cc a month.. Some get up 700cc a month.. In either case.. That is free money given to us as a part of our subscription.. You can also get another 100cc by just getting a security key.. Which is actually free as well with the smart phone app.. Subscribers get these coins so that we don't have to out right buy coins to get the Cathar unlock.. The F2P people will have to buy those coins..

 

As for a post being the worst in the bunch?? Well.. Pat yourself on the back..

Edited April 30, 2013 by MajikMyst

[SithVeritas]

Wanna stop double and triple posting all the time, MajikMyst?

It's bad enough that you have no idea what your talking about without me having to see half a page of it.

 

Second your way of thinking is so irrational and based on assumptions and 'facts' you have no sources of, and everyone else's attempt at making you understand our side seem to bounce of that head, so I'm not even going to try discussing this with you.

 

 

We never had to purchase races, playing a race from 1-50 unlocked that race for your entire legacy. There was always an option to actually play for it. With the Cather there is no such option.

 

Again, this.

Stop being greedy BioWare, you've already told us you're making more than enough money from the CM both at GDC and multiple interviews, milk your customers like this and you will have successfully attempted to kill SWTOR a second time, and this time it'll probably stick, at least for me and everyone I play with.

 

 

This is the dumbest decision you're ever going to make with this game if you guys go through with it, diminishing subscription value and losing a lot of us, and making the chances of F2P subscribing even less likely.

 

Why the hell would we subscribe if we're going to have to pay for basic features anyway?

I know our answer is, we won't.

 

Before any of you pro defenders get all mad and on your high horse, by our I mean my guildies, my friends and I, and everyone else who agrees with me.

So...

Edited April 30, 2013 by SithVeritas

[MajikMyst]

Wanna stop double and triple posting all the time, MajikMyst?

It's bad enough that you have no idea what your talking about without me having to see half a page of it.

 

Second your way of thinking is so irrational and based on assumptions and 'facts' you have no sources of, and everyone else's attempt at making you understand our side seem to bounce of that head, so I'm not even going to try discussing this with you.

 

Translation..

 

I have no facts of my own so I will just insult you and pretend I know it all..

 

Dude.. Do you actually think you have to purchase the Cathar?? See you are right.. You have no facts.. It is hard to purchase something when you are using free money.. Using grant money to unlock the Cathar is technically not purchasing it.. It is getting it for free because the money used was free..

 

Thanks for the insults though.. They were a good laugh.. But I will just consider the source..

[beefyandbeef]

I believe the issue that you wanted to have addressed is that currently it states "Full access to all character creation choices." As of this moment this terminology is still correct as subscribers do have full access to those choices. We will be updating that page (along with any others that make similar references) once Game Update 2.1 goes live.

 

-eric

 

Animal Farm anyone? They're changing the rules to how they want them.....

Just like in Animal Farm:

"No animal shall sleep in a bed

Revised= no animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets"

So subscribers are supposed to have full customization options; however, they think they can just change the rule!

"Subscribers have full customization access

Revised= Subscribers have more customization options then others, but we really want money so we don't care"

[Kilora]

[pointless attacks aimed at others]

 

Again, this.

Stop being greedy BioWare, you've already told us you're making more than enough money from the CM both at GDC and multiple interviews, milk your customers like this and you will have successfully attempted to kill SWTOR a second time, and this time it'll probably stick, at least for me and everyone I play with.

 

Where did they say they make "more than enough money"? Funny that I've never heard that. . .

 

This is the dumbest decision you're ever going to make with this game if you guys go through with it, diminishing subscription value and losing a lot of us, and making the chances of F2P subscribing even less likely.

 

Why the hell would we subscribe if we're going to have to pay for basic features anyway?

I know our answer is, we won't.

So, having a NEW race added to the game is a basic feature? Maybe in your eyes -- in NO way shape or form does this negatively affect your gameplay.

 

Before any of you pro defenders get all mad and on your high horse, by our I mean my guildies, my friends and I, and everyone else who agrees with me.

So...

 

Don't think anyone cares who you're talking about. I replace 'I' for any plural pronouns, because you are only talking for yourself. Same as anyone else.

 

 

 

So. You have a new option for race. If you want it badly enough, ONE month of a sub + security key, and you can get it without paying any extra. This isn't a basic feature, it isn't actual content -- it offers no change of gameplay at all. To say you're being "required" to spend your monthly grant is hilarious.

 

Or, if you're like me and MANY of the others that have posted in this thread -- you just won't buy them because you don't want to play thundercats. And, seems to me that all the other species unlocks are on the GTN, no? So -- there's the in-game method of getting it.

 

Those are your options. I don't care to argue about whether or not this is a slippery slope, because no one but BW knows what they will do in the future.

[Kilora]

Animal Farm anyone? They're changing the rules to how they want them.....

Just like in Animal Farm:

"No animal shall sleep in a bed

Revised= no animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets"

So subscribers are supposed to have full customization options; however, they think they can just change the rule!

"Subscribers have full customization access

Revised= Subscribers have more customization options then others, but we really want money so we don't care"

 

Just a note -- it doesn't say anywhere that we have full customization access. Only full character creation access.

 

And even then -- it is inherently false already. You can't make a jedi that is sith pureblood unless you've PAID to unlock that race, or played through the game with the race already.

 

And, cathar will barely be different. Like the other racial unlocks, I'm sure It'll be tradeable -- don't wanna spend a month of your stipend, but want cathar? Get some credits and hit up the GTN.

[MajikMyst]

Animal Farm anyone? They're changing the rules to how they want them.....

Just like in Animal Farm:

"No animal shall sleep in a bed

Revised= no animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets"

So subscribers are supposed to have full customization options; however, they think they can just change the rule!

"Subscribers have full customization access

Revised= Subscribers have more customization options then others, but we really want money so we don't care"

 

Dude.. It is called grant money.. Every subscriber gets it.. It isn't going to cost us anything and that isn't going to change..

 

They are changing the site because obvious isn't obvious enough..

[Eillack]

Animal Farm anyone? They're changing the rules to how they want them.....

Just like in Animal Farm:

"No animal shall sleep in a bed

Revised= no animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets"

So subscribers are supposed to have full customization options; however, they think they can just change the rule!

"Subscribers have full customization access

Revised= Subscribers have more customization options then others, but we really want money so we don't care"

 

I doubt anyone else here read that amazing book haha. But yes, it's more troubling that EAware is a perfect match to that.

[JerForceOne]

I'm not worried, i probably won't even buy the cathar. I hate cats.

[PlasmaJohn]

I doubt anyone else here read that amazing book haha. But yes, it's more troubling that EAware is a perfect match to that.

An excellent excellent cautionary tale that I highly recommend to anybody. I know it's on my kids' school reading lists. When I read his post I was thinking "oh how apt".

 

That said... I hate it. Not because of terrible writing but because of the story itself. I was upset for a week after I finished it. I really don't need that kind of stress these days

[TheNahash]

I doubt anyone else here read that amazing book haha. But yes, it's more troubling that EAware is a perfect match to that.

 

And I doubt the guy who quoted it truly understands that what Orwell was talking about was something much greater than a pastime that has virtually no consequences in anyone's life.

 

But then again, there are people out there who think EA is the worst company in America, because they make bad video games or because their CS is bad, so it kind of makes sense...

[SithVeritas]

I doubt anyone else here read that amazing book haha. But yes, it's more troubling that EAware is a perfect match to that.

 

What's even more troubling is the fact that we got them to give F2P 2 extra actionbars when they realized it could potentially stop acquisition of new players, but when it comes to doing right by their subs there's not enough ****s they couldn't give.

 

They're doing something no other game has done before, charging for use of the barbershop. That's just shows how much they consider us to be 'not going anywhere'.