Subscription: Advertisement vs Truth

[SithVeritas]

I don't understand why people absolutly want to pay when they could get it for free with their subscription. More, they give arguments : "I want to pay for this feature because..."

 

Seriously, do you work for Bioware? If not, maybe you should try to use your brain.

 

Blaine Christine said this in their livestream.

 

''As a subscriber, you can expect virtually no changes beyond the new stuff from the patches. You are getting addition of loyalty program where you get a monthly grant of cartel coins. Some new content we generate in the future maybe restricted to FTP players where subscribers are certainly able to easily get in there. ''

 

I'm going to hold them to that, that livestream is the only reason I decided to stick with SWTOR F2P, if they go back on their word I'm gone.

[Sharee]

If they promised i get something for free, and i can get it for cartel coins which i do get for free, that's good enough for me.

[DuckimusPrime]

Character creation options is hair style or eye color and stuff like that.. Not species.. And we never had full access to all the species to begin with.. We either had to pay credits for the ones we didn't have or level to 50 to get them.. We never got them for free.. I don't get what your issue is..

 

Species isn't a character creation option? Really?

 

http://www.swtor.com/free/features <- have you not visited this website before? Scroll down and check what it lists as the Character Creation restrictions for Preferred and Free, actually don't worry about it, I'll list them in case its too difficult for you. The character creation restrictions are the number of characters and limited to three species. Looks like Bioware's website specifically says that species is a character creation option.

 

Also what please tell me what species a subscriber currently has to pay for to select? Playing a species through to level 50, or paying cartel coins, removes the class restrictions on the species. It doesn't give access to the species.

 

You will have full access to it. You just might have to spend a few of those cartel coins that they have been giving you for free for months. I know I would love something to spend them on, I have almost 4k stocked up in my account.

 

Having to spend a few cartel coins is not maintaining the advertise feature for subscribers that they get access to "All Character Creation Options". If spending cartel coins counted as getting access then that wouldn't be a restriction for F2P players. After all they can access any race by spending a few cartel coins.

Edited April 29, 2013 by DuckimusPrime

[SithVeritas]

If they promised i get something for free, and i can get it for cartel coins which i do get for free, that's good enough for me.

 

You get your cartel coins for free? So you didn't pay 15 bucks for it and WZ and operations? The rest of the game everyone gets for free.

 

At this point the only thing we pay for is WZ access and operations, the rest are some visual things most can do without.

Edited April 29, 2013 by SithVeritas

[DuckimusPrime]

I see nothing in the link that says the Barber shop or Cathar race are free! No false advertising there!

Just because you failed to mouse over some options doesn't mean it isn't there. It specifically says that subscribers get full access to character creation options. And that the restrictions for character creation options are limited species choice and total number of characters.

 

With this they are removing the subscription benefit of access to all character creation options. It is the equivalent of making subscribers have to pay cartel coins to access more than one crew skill, while advertising that you still access to upto three.

 

Or having to spend cartel coins to access sprint at level 1, instead of level 15.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

I don't understand why people absolutly want to pay when they could get it for free with their subscription. More, they give arguments : "I want to pay for this feature because..."

 

Seriously, do you work for Bioware? If not, maybe you should try to use your brain.

 

Silly argument. Of course people would like to get it free with their sub. We just understand that its reasonable (and normal for the industry) that we do have to pay and it is not false advertising if we have to.

[SithVeritas]

Silly argument. Of course people would like to get it free with their sub. We just understand that its reasonable (and normal for the industry) that we do have to pay and it is not false advertising if we have to.

 

See one post above you to see why it IS false advertising.

[danielearley]

Just because you failed to mouse over some options doesn't mean it isn't there. It specifically says that subscribers get full access to character creation options. And that the restrictions for character creation options are limited species choice and total number of characters.

 

With this they are removing the subscription benefit of access to all character creation options. It is the equivalent of making subscribers have to pay cartel coins to access more than one crew skill, while advertising that you still access to upto three.

 

Or having to spend cartel coins to access sprint at level 1, instead of level 15.

 

I didn't fail to mouse over, I read. the details you mention.

At present the full choice of races for certain classes is restricted, unless you unlock them. hence the term Character Creation Choices. It does not state all races for every class....

As you are given CC to help you get things from the CM you don't have to pay anything!

Also the Crew Skills clearly state 3 Crew Skills and faster leveling, which is different from the wording on the Character creation. If you had to use CC to buy the third skill, yes that would be false advertising

[danielearley]

See one post above you to see why it IS false advertising.

 

Actually it's not false advertising, just because you read it, doesn't make it true

[Kesphin]

As a subscriber, monthly CCs are supposed to be used to get cartel packs or armor sets, they are not meant to unlock content, species, WZ, or operations. Because what is next? Will I have to use my CCs to unlock next WZ (if it gets released someday)? Or next operation? You do know that when you give a hand they take the arm, do you?

[SithVeritas]

As a subscriber, monthly CCs are supposed to be used to get cartel packs or armor sets, they are not meant to unlock content, species, WZ, or operations. Because what is next? Will I have to use my CCs to unlock next WZ (if it gets released someday)? Or next operation? You do know that when you give a hand they take the arm, do you?

 

This.

[Sharee]

If they promised i get something for free, and i can get it for cartel coins which i do get for free, that's good enough for me.

You get your cartel coins for free? So you didn't pay 15 bucks for it and WZ and operations?

 

I pay 15 bucks for my subscription, not for cartel coins. Those 500 coins i get per month are free.

 

Logic: if i paid $15 sub before cartel marked existed(and thus i got no coins), and today i get 500 coins on top of my sub without having to pay more than the original $15, it means i got the coins for free.

[SithVeritas]

I pay 15 bucks for my subscription, not for cartel coins. Those 500 coins i get per month are free.

 

Logic: if i paid $15 sub before cartel marked existed(and thus i got no coins), and today i get 500 coins on top of my sub without having to pay more than the original $15, it means i got the coins for free.

 

Define subscription, it obviously doesn't mean what it meant before F2P. Everyone has access to the game now.

Essentially subbers are paying for WZs and operations and some other minor stuff.

 

If I sub I expect to have access to the entire game minus Cartel/vanity crap. New species and a recustomization is a content update subscribers should have access to it at no extra cost. That's what I was told.

 

I don't need no Cartel stuff in my game, that's why I subbed and try to avoid CM stuff, if BioWare wants to cross that line and make a few quick bucks they can do that, but they'll definitely lose a lifetime subscriber here.

Edited April 29, 2013 by SithVeritas

[Coolits]

My sub was due yesterday and I've withheld it while I wait to see how all this pans out as I'm not happy with the current situation. I like the game I just don't agree with this decision and see it as a sign of things to come.

[Kilora]

Define subscription, it obviously doesn't mean what it meant before F2P. Everyone has access to the game now.

Essentially subbers are paying for WZs and operations and some other minor stuff.

 

If I sub I expect to have access to the entire game minus Cartel/vanity crap. New species and a recustomization is a content update subscribers should have access to it at no extra cost. That's what I was told.

 

I don't need no Cartel stuff in my game, that's why I subbed and try to avoid CM stuff, if BioWare wants to cross that line and make a few quick bucks they can do that, but they'll definitely lose a lifetime subscriber here.

 

 

QQ all you want -- but a new species is NOT content. It is vanity crap.

 

If they added a new FP or OP or WZ in, and had it be CC only? Yeah, I'd be up in arms with everyone else and would promptly unsub.

 

You don't need cartel stuff. Don't buy it. You don't NEED to play cathar. If you REALLY want to play Cathar, and won't spend the money, wait two months (or less) and use your free stipend.

 

If you think your subscription is so minor -- why are you still subscribing? If you're getting SO little, just /unsub and go F2P. Problems solved.

[SithVeritas]

QQ all you want -- but a new species is NOT content. It is vanity crap.

 

If they added a new FP or OP or WZ in, and had it be CC only? Yeah, I'd be up in arms with everyone else and would promptly unsub.

 

You don't need cartel stuff. Don't buy it. You don't NEED to play cathar. If you REALLY want to play Cathar, and won't spend the money, wait two months (or less) and use your free stipend.

 

If you think your subscription is so minor -- why are you still subscribing? If you're getting SO little, just /unsub and go F2P. Problems solved.

 

I'm not talking about Cathar specifically, like I said a couple of posts ago. I'm worried about the new standard BioWare is setting for SWTOR as far as content updates go. 2.1 content SHOULD be free for subscribers.

 

I really explained my point already in several posts in this thread, I don't expect you to wade through all of the others to find them, but I'm not going to repeat myself either.

[Soluss]

It's about 1.5 hours of just dialogue/cutscenes per faction. That's 3 hours total without doing any of the quests. You're using quite the double standards there saying that actually doing the quests doesn't count towards the time and then you say that EQ2 gave you a years worth of content because you had to grind AA.

 

So with that in mind in a week you:

 

Finished Makeb for both factions?

Did all the Makeb daily and weekly quests after completing it?

Defeated the new world boss?

Did the seeker droid quest line?

Did the macrobinocular quest line?

Finished the new Operation on all 3 difficulties?

Did all 4 new hard mode Flashpoints?

Got the complete set of the new highest tier of PVE gear?

Got the complete set of the new highest tier of PVP gear?

Did all the GSI quests on all 5 planets?

Found all pieces of the Dreadseed/Star Forager armour?

Got both datacrons on Makeb?

Got maximum reputation with GSI and Makeb?

Found all 102 hidden MCR-99 droids?

Learned all the new crafting recipes and discovered the purple versions?

And of course, completed all your achievements? Or even just the new ones on Makeb?

 

You must have had quite the week.

 

You said story. I refered the time to the story, not content as a whole. Content as a whole gave me a years worth in EQ2.

 

As for your list... I could say the same thing about EQ2 and their story per faction. If one faction got me a year then the other faction would get me another year now wouldnt it? Same senario different game. EQ2 didnt have the 3 hours of cutscenes but it did had long lasting content.

 

No, I did not complete your list. That is moot. I completed the things I cared to complete just as in EQ2 I completed the things I cared to complete.

[Soluss]

So they increase the price of the expansion to include the Cathar unlock, which means that people who don't want to play Cathar end up paying for it? Better to sell them seperately so people can buy what they want when they want it.

 

New races have overwhelmingly been something that subscribers have paid for in MMOs because they do not arrive as free content updates in most games.

 

Already spoke on this. The race would not change the cost of a expansion by that much... especially one that doesnt have a new starting area. You are correct, races are not free in most MMOs. They usually come in expansion packs with new starting areas to go with them.

[Kilora]

I'm not talking about Cathar specifically, like I said a couple of posts ago. I'm worried about the new standard BioWare is setting for SWTOR as far as content updates go. 2.1 content SHOULD be free for subscribers.

 

I really explained my point already in several posts in this thread, I don't expect you to wade through all of the others to find them, but I'm not going to repeat myself either.

 

 

You're using a slippery slope fallacy. Forgive me if I don't succumb to your fearmongering.

 

People have CONSTANTLY complained about this horrible downward trend of the CM. Guess what -- you're making baseless assumptions for no reason.

 

When they actually make a move I am unpleased with, I will /unsub and tell them why. Until then, I won't scream about things that have yet to happen. Why? Because we don't know they will ever happen. There is not a single shred of actual evidence pointing to SWTOR going down some crazy road of sub + pay-for-all-content-individually. This is the same BS we've been listening to about the Cartel Market doomsayers.

[Soluss]

I don't understand why people absolutly want to pay when they could get it for free with their subscription. More, they give arguments : "I want to pay for this feature because..."

 

Seriously, do you work for Bioware? If not, maybe you should try to use your brain.

 

Pretty funny isnt it? I dont understand the incessant need to defend a company so bad that people actually argue that they want to pay extra for features that are usually free.

[Soluss]

Silly argument. Of course people would like to get it free with their sub. We just understand that its reasonable (and normal for the industry) that we do have to pay and it is not false advertising if we have to.

 

It is not normal for the industry to charge for barbershop features. Quite the opposite. It is also not normal in the industry to charge for an expansion and the next update charge more for a race.

[Soluss]

I pay 15 bucks for my subscription, not for cartel coins. Those 500 coins i get per month are free.

 

Logic: if i paid $15 sub before cartel marked existed(and thus i got no coins), and today i get 500 coins on top of my sub without having to pay more than the original $15, it means i got the coins for free.

 

You paid a 15 dollar sub before the game became free for everyone. The second the game became free, for everyone to play, is the second the value of a subscription went down. The cartel coins off set the amount of the subscription rather then lowering the sub, to say, 10 bucks a month. Instead, you are paying for a sub that is the 10 dollar value and paying 5 bucks for cartel coins. Nothing is free.

[Sharee]

If I sub I expect to have access to the entire game minus Cartel/vanity crap. New species and a recustomization is a content update...

 

Excuse me, but how your character LOOKS (because that's all there is to 'race') is the very definition of 'vanity crap', as you eloquently put it.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Sharee

[Soluss]

You're using a slippery slope fallacy. Forgive me if I don't succumb to your fearmongering.

 

People have CONSTANTLY complained about this horrible downward trend of the CM. Guess what -- you're making baseless assumptions for no reason.

 

When they actually make a move I am unpleased with, I will /unsub and tell them why. Until then, I won't scream about things that have yet to happen. Why? Because we don't know they will ever happen. There is not a single shred of actual evidence pointing to SWTOR going down some crazy road of sub + pay-for-all-content-individually. This is the same BS we've been listening to about the Cartel Market doomsayers.

 

What you fail to see is that they are making moves that people are unpleased with. You may not be but other people are. Now you are arguing against what they are unhappy with because you are ok with it. When you are not ok with something you will voice your opinion and be on the other side of the fence. Dont be a hypocrit.

 

They are showing a precendence though. Pre F2P cathar and the expansion were meant as a non paid update. Since F2P they had a short time event. HK51 and a new Op. They said we would get free content updates every 6-8 weeks. Makeb hit the area of the 6-8 weeks.... we paid for that. The next update people will have to pay and continuously pay to utilize. So there is 12-16 weeks of updates that cost extra money in a row. There is your precedence. On top of that... the majority of the updates have mostly dealt with the cartel market. They had problems adding gear and mounts and other vanity stuff to the game before the market hit. Afterwords they are able to do so weekly to monthly. Odd how that works. They also almost charged for HK-51. If not for the "whining" on the forums they would have.

[SithVeritas]

Excuse me, but how your character LOOKS (because that's all there is to 'race') is the very definition of 'vanity crap', as you eloquently put it.

 

To me it is part of character creation which I supposedly have full access to, according to the swtor/free page, and according to Blaine Christine during a livestream.

 

Species should either come with expansions or be free for subs, re-customization should be free always, or in game currency.