2.0.1 55 lvl wz bolster fixed or not?

[Groncho]

yeah they fixed the bolster bug with enhancements but left the bolster cheat with augments.... gg bioware... basically take augments out of your ear piece and enhancement and you get a retarded amount of power and health...

 

can u post this retarded amount of healt and power before and after

are u full partisan geared? or using PVe gear

maybe we can ask things with proper number

also at some point your explanation is a little bit strange

[Hieroglyphics]

can u post this retarded amount of healt and power before and after

are u full partisan geared? or using PVe gear

maybe we can ask things with proper number

also at some point your explanation is a little bit strange

 

i made a post, i did this glitch on my level 50 sniper in full wh gear with the 18 cunning augments. I took them out of the ear piece and 2 implants went into the wz put them back in went from like a 22k - 30k hp with almost 1300 bonus dmg at level 50. I was told this works at lvl 55 no matter what your gear is.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Hieroglyphics

[BoushhDC]

Actually, I know what the problem is. The problem is that people expect to have like 50 % better stats on their PvP gear compared to someone in PvE gear because that's the only way they can "pwn newbs".

 

Get off it, Midi. MMOs are about gear progression, and everyone knows that. The problem that most people have is that even the *ideal* of this new bolster system isn't what's happening. Supposedly the idea is to make the gear gap smaller between new players (fresh 55s w/ no pvp gear, for example) and those that have ground out full sets of the top tier PvP gear. If that's true, there are MANY ways they could have achieved it (a number of ideas have been proposed by the community). I have no idea why BW took the approach they did because it is so complicated that they can't even get control of it, and it's so easily exploited that it is a huge, demoralizing mess.

 

Additionally, when people are coming into the WZs w/ UW gear and then being bolstered with Expertise on top of those higher stats (compare item lvl 168 stats to 154 for Conqueror), they are then getting an even bigger boost.

 

Just compare:

 

Conqueror Eliminator Chestpiece (heavy armor lvl 154):

 

945 Armor

136 Aim

146 Endurance

150 Expertise

66 Crit

64 Surge

 

VS.

 

Underworld Eliminator Chestpiece (lvl 168)

 

1030 Armor

157 Aim

172 Endurance

109 Power

79 Surge

 

Not only are the pieces not on par, but the PvE gear is then bolstered to GIVE them Expertise on top of it. I don't know about anyone else, but I have a major problem with that. People were already coming into WZs in just a few pieces of that and had their health up into the 30,000. What do you see happening with full sets? Oh, hell nah.

[Astarica]

Conqueror Eliminator Chestpiece (heavy armor lvl 154):

 

945 Armor

136 Aim

146 Endurance

150 Expertise

66 Crit

64 Surge

 

VS.

 

Underworld Eliminator Chestpiece (lvl 168)

 

1030 Armor

157 Aim

172 Endurance

109 Power

79 Surge

 

Not only are the pieces not on par, but the PvE gear is then bolstered to GIVE them Expertise on top of it. I don't know about anyone else, but I have a major problem with that. People were already coming into WZs in just a few pieces of that and had their health up into the 30,000. What do you see happening with full sets? Oh, hell nah.

 

This is a clear example of how people have no idea how Expertise works. We'll assume 1 power = 1 crit since that's how it usually looks like on budget, so we get UW has 21 aim, 26 endurance, 43 power, and 15 surge over Conqueror counterpart. A full set of UW gets bolstered to 1322 before patch (it's less now), which is basically 40% versus 60% for Conqueror. For the sake of simplicity assuming this bonus is distributed exactly equally across 14 pieces, you get (20%/1.4) = ~1.4%.

 

26 endurance is 260 HP. That is 1.4% of 18.6K HP.

 

We'll say 1 aim is 1 power, so call that 64 power. Based on tooltip damage on Force Lighthning (no range of damage so it is exact) the Partisan power proc of 435 power adds 7% to my damage. Therefore 64 power is worth (64/435) * 7% = 1.03% damage.

 

You can add the 15 Surge or the minuscule armor but the point is that it's not going to make up for 1.4% damage modifier and a corresponding decrease in damage even before the patch. After the patch it'd be even worse.

 

But people can't do math, so they continue to gimp themselves for no reason. The funny part is that because bolster works, you're only behind by about 0.5% or so for gimping yourself, an amount too small to tell the difference, so people continue to gimp themselves.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Astarica

[Zoom_VI]

Get off it, Midi. MMOs are about gear progression, and everyone knows that. The problem that most people have is that even the *ideal* of this new bolster system isn't what's happening. Supposedly the idea is to make the gear gap smaller between new players (fresh 55s w/ no pvp gear, for example) and those that have ground out full sets of the top tier PvP gear. If that's true, there are MANY ways they could have achieved it (a number of ideas have been proposed by the community). I have no idea why BW took the approach they did because it is so complicated that they can't even get control of it, and it's so easily exploited that it is a huge, demoralizing mess.

 

Additionally, when people are coming into the WZs w/ UW gear and then being bolstered with Expertise on top of those higher stats (compare item lvl 168 stats to 154 for Conqueror), they are then getting an even bigger boost.

 

Just compare:

 

Conqueror Eliminator Chestpiece (heavy armor lvl 154):

 

945 Armor

136 Aim

146 Endurance

150 Expertise

66 Crit

64 Surge

 

VS.

 

Underworld Eliminator Chestpiece (lvl 168)

 

1030 Armor

157 Aim

172 Endurance

109 Power

79 Surge

 

Not only are the pieces not on par, but the PvE gear is then bolstered to GIVE them Expertise on top of it. I don't know about anyone else, but I have a major problem with that. People were already coming into WZs in just a few pieces of that and had their health up into the 30,000. What do you see happening with full sets? Oh, hell nah.

 

30k with pve gear? Wow epic fail for them

I'm in full partisan with conquer implants and ear, only my offhand isn't partisan (old EWH), my warzone hp is 36.8k plus that little 2% more expertise I have

[Groncho]

This is a clear example of how people have no idea how Expertise works. We'll assume 1 power = 1 crit since that's how it usually looks like on budget, so we get UW has 21 aim, 26 endurance, 43 power, and 15 surge over Conqueror counterpart. A full set of UW gets bolstered to 1322 before patch (it's less now), which is basically 40% versus 60% for Conqueror. For the sake of simplicity assuming this bonus is distributed exactly equally across 14 pieces, you get (20%/1.4) = ~1.4%.

 

26 endurance is 260 HP. That is 1.4% of 18.6K HP.

 

We'll say 1 aim is 1 power, so call that 64 power. Based on tooltip damage on Force Lighthning (no range of damage so it is exact) the Partisan power proc of 435 power adds 7% to my damage. Therefore 64 power is worth (64/435) * 7% = 1.03% damage.

 

You can add the 15 Surge or the minuscule armor but the point is that it's not going to make up for 1.4% damage modifier and a corresponding decrease in damage even before the patch. After the patch it'd be even worse.

 

But people can't do math, so they continue to gimp themselves for no reason. The funny part is that because bolster works, you're only behind by about 0.5% or so for gimping yourself, an amount too small to tell the difference, so people continue to gimp themselves.

 

I am waiting for an empiric response to this as i assume your numbers are correct

Ppl need to understand the influence in expertise to damage mitigation and healing received.

Also i think bolster is a mess it seems it won't get removed

Would love to see a post from BW explaining BOLSTER WITH NUMBERS

[BoushhDC]

1 aim has never equaled 1 power, for one thing. Power is a secondary stat while Aim is a primary that contributes to multiple stats, so 1 aim will add less to damage than 1 power. It will however, add to crit chance, healing, tech, etc. If it was the armor that threw you off, substitute the PvP boots for the chestpiece (which was merely presented as an example so of course the results are going to be cumulative.

 

Conqueror Eliminator boots:

 

945 Armor

136 Aim

150 Ex

66 Pwr

64 Surge.

 

I trust you don't need me to cut and paste the UW piece stats again for your side by side comparison.

 

The point is that the players with PvE gear are still getting bolstered higher than what should be their PvP counterparts. Maybe if the PvE gear wasn't given "free Expertise" then the numbers would support your claim, but I don't have to break out my calculator when someone on my team in the same class and spec as I am, but 0 pvp gear, but equivalent amounts of UW compared to my Conq, has hps close to 31k while I'm sitting at just under 29k. I'm hesitant to point out the disparity in damage production because there are too many factors that can account for the difference besides just the numbers, other than to say anecdotally that I almost always top others in my class in that department due to rotations and positioning. Again, the damage production can be much more subjective therefore I will still point out the flat hps. This is to say nothing of the bugs & exploits that still exist post patch 2.0.1.

[BoushhDC]

I am waiting for an empiric response to this as i assume your numbers are correct

Ppl need to understand the influence in expertise to damage mitigation and healing received.

Also i think bolster is a mess it seems it won't get removed

Would love to see a post from BW explaining BOLSTER WITH NUMBERS

 

His numbers are not correct. He thinks 1 aim = 1 power for starters.

 

Speaking of understanding Expertise, it has no influence on healing received. Some specs will have skill points you can put in such a thing, however.

[Astarica]

I am waiting for an empiric response to this as i assume your numbers are correct

Ppl need to understand the influence in expertise to damage mitigation and healing received.

Also i think bolster is a mess it seems it won't get removed

Would love to see a post from BW explaining BOLSTER WITH NUMBERS

 

Bolster is a mess because:

 

1. Bioware severely overestimated people's ability to understand concepts of damage mitigation/healing received.

2. It actually works.

 

#2 is important. This means despite people's best attempt to gimp themselves, the Bolster system will work even harder to ensure they're on a somewhat leveling field. While in open world PvP you'd get slaughtered wearing UW versus Conqueror, in the WZ Bolster ensures you lose less than 1% per piece equipped. It'd be like if I started a rumor saying that the SW buff is bugged and actually decreases your bonus damage by 5% instead of increase it, so clicking it off increases your DPS. If this actually gains traction I'm going to have people come in and post like, "I'm killing people much more reliably after clicking of my buff!" Why? Because there's absolutely no way anyone can say with any certainty how 5% bonus to bonus damage impacts any given fight, even though that is far greater than the difference between a piece of non MH/OH UW versus Conqueror.

 

Also complicating things is that PvP and PvE gear no longer have identical secondary stat type. In the example quoted above, the guy wearing UW is likely to see a >1.4% increase in tooltip damage because the UW piece is itemized for power while the Conqueror piece is itemized for crit. Of course the tooltip damage will favor the UW even more as tooltip damage does not include crits.

[Azarai]

I was in a WZ with a jugg in PVE gear, pretty much all Arkanian/UW gear, that had 38k hp but also had just 1450ish expertise. He got absolutely destroyed anytime he got the ball.

 

It seems the higher level PvE gear has been diminished but the lower tier like BH/DG and the likes seem to be retaining a higher bolster than intended, which is still kind of good for me b/c I'm still using quite a bit of my EWH gear. Even I will admit that my bolstered stats are quite inflated, I have less endurance and 1890 expertise but my bonus damage for my concealment operative is 1250+ for tech damage. But just like I put in another thread instead of whining for bolster to be scrapped (because face it, it isn't going anywhere) we should be trying to help the devs come up with a solution to the problem.

 

It's probably going to take awhile to get this tweaked out, and I was mad about bolster at first as well, but I do admit that it has helped level the playing field and it is much less frustrating going into a WZ and seeing a bunch of recruit geared people running around getting facesmashed by EWH geared opponents. 3 weeks in the grand scheme of an MMO isn't a whole lot of time, but at least we aren't all still running around in our undies

[BoushhDC]

36.8k is impressive to be sure, but what class and spec? I have to ask because in your sig, all you characters are listed as lvl 50 so I'm not sure which one you got to lvl 55 and you're talking about.

[Groncho]

His numbers are not correct. He thinks 1 aim = 1 power for starters.

 

Speaking of understanding Expertise, it has no influence on healing received. Some specs will have skill points you can put in such a thing, however.

 

So basically u sacrifice damage mitigation, healing restored and damage output (all things expertise gives ) but u get more HP.

Do you see expertise is a factor in the PvP scenario and it always been and now with no DR is a must to get 2018?

 

Useless to go full PVE gear in L55 Wz

Under L55 really doesn't care

Yet havet to see pics of the augment bug and some pll posting about huge increases out of the line

 

PS: I hope they removed bolster but it seems they don't, menawhile reading tons of redundant and unbased statements is sad

[Ybini]

I was in a WZ with a jugg in PVE gear, pretty much all Arkanian/UW gear, that had 38k hp but also had just 1450ish expertise. He got absolutely destroyed anytime he got the ball.

 

It seems the higher level PvE gear has been diminished but the lower tier like BH/DG and the likes seem to be retaining a higher bolster than intended, which is still kind of good for me b/c I'm still using quite a bit of my EWH gear. Even I will admit that my bolstered stats are quite inflated, I have less endurance and 1890 expertise but my bonus damage for my concealment operative is 1250+ for tech damage. But just like I put in another thread instead of whining for bolster to be scrapped (because face it, it isn't going anywhere) we should be trying to help the devs come up with a solution to the problem.

 

It's probably going to take awhile to get this tweaked out, and I was mad about bolster at first as well, but I do admit that it has helped level the playing field and it is much less frustrating going into a WZ and seeing a bunch of recruit geared people running around getting facesmashed by EWH geared opponents. 3 weeks in the grand scheme of an MMO isn't a whole lot of time, but at least we aren't all still running around in our undies

 

That's good news, that would fix the issue that has kept me from even bothering to spend my comms yet.

[Astarica]

I'm not sure why people continue to make claims that they get 'comparable' expertise. Here's the thread dev said a full set of UW is bolstered to 1332:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6163779#edit6163779

 

Last time I checked 1332 is not comparable to 2018. If you want to say that dev is completely out of his mind please show some in game proof that shows a full set of UW getting bolstered to say, 1900 expertise. That'd be what I consider as 'comparable'.

 

1 main stat is worth about 80% of 1 power in bonus healing/damage. 1 main stat adds some amount of crit % whose value changes depending on which part of the DR you're at. Rather than hurting your head it's easier to say that tiny % of crit is probably about the same as 0.2 of a power and call it a day. Given that Overkill augments are widely preferred over mainstat augments for DPS types, it's pretty clear most of the community thinks 1 power > 1 mainstat, so putting 1 aim = 1 power only increases the value of the UW gear.

[BoushhDC]

To be honest, having done some checking, there are still bugs in the system that were supposed to be fixed by now. It really doesn't seem to matter what things appear to be "on paper" and you can get as "mathy" (to use a dev term) as you want, but things are still not working properly. What does that mean? 9k+ crits and "self-bolstering" just by moving some well documented things around, confirmed.

 

(Edit: the stats I observed just a day or so prior to the 2.0.1 release -- with regard to UW gear -- could have been an example of the broken system, not that items were behaving as they should have mathematically if everything was working as intended.

 

Given that, the whole pve vs. pvp gear issue just became moot for me. Until the unintended is remedied, it just doesn't matter.

Edited April 24, 2013 by BoushhDC

[Darknsith]

Yet havet to see pics of the augment bug and some pll posting about huge increases out of the line

 

PS: I hope they removed bolster but it seems they don't, menawhile reading tons of redundant and unbased statements is sad

 

Please look for Evilmoka's thread about augment glitch, I posted before/aft screenshots to show you it is indeed bugged and NEEDS a fix.

[Zoom_VI]

36.8k is impressive to be sure, but what class and spec? I have to ask because in your sig, all you characters are listed as lvl 50 so I'm not sure which one you got to lvl 55 and you're talking about.

 

It's the van tank

All peices have +18 end augs and it includes trooper buff and comp buff

My my math with full conq and 55 augs I should easily hit 40k hp

[BoushhDC]

It's the van tank

All peices have +18 end augs and it includes trooper buff and comp buff

My my math with full conq and 55 augs I should easily hit 40k hp

 

Yeah, sounds about right. I was comparing two commandos though which naturally have less HP than a vanguard. But, as an addendum, I also have come to the realization and confirmation that bolster is still broken and the numbers one sees in the WZs are not necessarily (even not likely to be) the intended ones. The manipulation of bolster by players gave me a math headache because things weren't adding up, so I'm waving the white flag on this one until (or if) BW fixes their mess. Oh well.

[Zoom_VI]

Yeah, sounds about right. I was comparing two commandos though which naturally have less HP than a vanguard. But, as an addendum, I also have come to the realization and confirmation that bolster is still broken and the numbers one sees in the WZs are not necessarily (even not likely to be) the intended ones. The manipulation of bolster by players gave me a math headache because things weren't adding up, so I'm waving the white flag on this one until (or if) BW fixes their mess. Oh well.

 

I will point out that the 36.8k (now 37.2 today) was both inside and out of wz

[L-RANDLE]

I'd start spending it man. The partisan gear is definitely better than any pve gear. On my sorc I'm 2 mods away from full optimized partisan gear, with a conqueror mainhand and offhand, and the sorc is wrecking people. The expertise being at 2018 and min/maxed for pretty much all power is definitely noticeable over lesser geared people. I can tell when someone is in pve gear, my ticks of force lightning just murder them, ticking for over 2k per tick. A chain lightning crit will hit those folks for over 7k.

 

I'd start spending those comms people, you're just wasting time.

 

I posted this in another thread to give peeps an idea where some other gear sets produced...

 

Well I'm home.. Here are some real numbers..

 

 

I crafted a set of unaugmented 54 purple implants and here is the outcome...

Here I am in: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/50067-1012/expert-experimental-reaction-implant

 

These are somewhat "tankie" implants, but I could use the Might version and get better results.

 

For those in disbelief that All PvE gear still gives EXP around 1600, sorry, but no....

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOR20PvEIMPLANTS_zps47a33d83.png

EXP: 1855(55.29%)

HP: 27541

This translates into is my Force Sweep rated at 3647

 

 

Here I am in 2 unaugmented Partisan Vindicator Implants:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOR20PARTISANIMPLANTS_zps6b189e01.png

EXP: 1857(55.35%)

HP: 26841

This translates into is my Force Sweep rated at 3680.

 

 

What do I gather from this? Losing 700 HP for pennies in mitigation, plus all the tertiary adds of the crafted implants? Partisan probably is not enough of an increase unless you have all 14 pieces, and don't think I am going to spend my comms and credits (as I would have to remove my augments on my other gear, which is still screwed up as far as I can see on the forums)to find out. I traded them right back in....

 

 

Making a player competitive versus trivializing PvP gear is a thin line, but as you can see, Bolster is on the other side of the block.... Throw in the fact that you need to trade in for certain pieces... They need to either eliminate all PvP gear ( & give other avenues for me to spend my WZ/RWZ comms)or decrease main/end gains from Bolster.

 

As a followup to this, I did buy the Conq relics (for obvious reasons)and got my EXP to 1956 and increased my HP to ~30K, so for a DPS heavy build, I am still not 100% convinced that Partisan has any value over what is available from crafting/drops (51-54). I need to get my Cyber and Art going, but I am going to continue to look at this issue with Bolster looking at item level and/or (native)EXP. Right now, at a minimum, you need 12 out of 14 pieces before we can talk about it being "worth it". That basically nullifies any consistant progression, in favor of a accumulation type of progression.

 

I guess I should be happy though, I can just go straight to Conq (its just too bad I need a trade-in on 60% of the stuff:rolleyes:).