SWTOR dying? Quit a month after release: Came back and game is better [Criticisms]

[EhevuTov]

The quality of life in the game was really low after release and I got frustrated and left. I re-subbed recently and have been actively playing since the RotHC release and I'm really enjoying the game: it seems to keep improving and improving. I play many other games and MMO's and SWTOR keeps drawing me back. As a gaming vet, I see a good game when I see one. I really hope EA/Bioware invests money into this game and keeps it going. A lot of games have rough launches and need time to iron out the problems and add new features.

 

The reason why I'm writing this, is because I believe a lot of the game features were designed and started to be implemented by the old team before they down-sized. Everything they envisioned and designed has been implemented and come to fruition with this first expansion.

 

There is a lag to development and I fear (and I could very well be ignorant in this fear) that we won't be getting new features like the Legacy system in the future and that Bioware/EA will just focus on the cartel market and the occasional new content, keeping only a skeleton art and programming crew for development.

 

I'm very curious as to the plans and features for the next expansion.

 

Criticism

1. Questing is the best out there. I've never played a game with as good of questing in an MMO. The storyline and voice-overs are awesome.
    
   
2. LFG has improved greatly. I don't have to wait to form a group. It finds people for me and transports me to and from the operations. This is a big deal.
    
   
3. Transportation has improved. I don't have to wait as long and get bored in the game. I don't want to feel like I'm grinding or doing something unnecessary. I work for a living. i have money. I give you money so that I will be entertained. If I'm not entertained then I'll stop giving money.
    
   
4. Legacy perks are awesome. The legacy perk system that improves the quality of life of the player creates depth and something to strive to obtain. These kind of psychological depths and branches are key to a good MMORPG.
    
   
5. Some of the armor looks horrid. You all probably, know which sets I'm referring to. Some of the armor sets are really good though. If you don't like your armor, you won't be as drawn to your character psychologically and will be less likely to keep playing. When I see armor that looks horrid and unpolished, I feel like it's filler. When I see filler, I see mis-management of resources and a game that could potentially struggle, or turn into that nightmare that right now, is just a few bad armor sets.
    
   
6. Too much stuff on the cartel market for no-game play. You want items to feel attainable and worthwhile. If your customers feel like they need to throw money down at just the chance of getting a rare item, this is not fun. There is no feeling of accomplishment and it will eventually give you a bad reputation in the long run. There is a small percentage of big-spenders who will throw a lot of money down, which is good for Bioware, but this needs to be slightly re-worked. This is why card-games are getting away from the Magic the Gathering model where you have only a chance at getting what you want and going toward a Living-Card game model, where you are guaranteed certain items.

Edited April 23, 2013 by EhevuTov
typo

[ShmickB]

I largely agree. I think a lot of the roll-outs this year, and RotHC in particular, have been great. Loving the new 55 HM FPs, the Bosses are a genuine challenge without being impossible and my guild have been running multiple per night.

 

Also the new Gears, Cartel armours in particular, have some cool looks which make me wish I wasn't such a cheap skate ;-)

 

But the Seeker Droids are not implemented well at all. They need to fix the haywire triangulation that means you consistently get incompatible directions. Now it is just luck and lots of boredom. I like puzzles that logic can be applied to, I get the "poos" going around in a circle for an hour essentially rolling the dice to find something.

[Yoshiru_Airken]

It is encouraging to see mostly positive posts like this one, as opposed to the excessive amount of negative posts/topics on the SWTOR forums. This was a thought-out post, and I agree with most of what you said (your last two criticisms honestly don't bother me that much).

 

As you said, I believe the expansion has been wonderful, and I love seeing all the different player "demands" that the creators were able to put into the expansion. Keep up the good work BioWare.

[DroidDreamer]

It is encouraging to see mostly positive posts like this one, as opposed to the excessive amount of negative posts/topics on the SWTOR forums. This was a thought-out post, and I agree with most of what you said (your last two criticisms honestly don't bother me that much).

 

As you said, I believe the expansion has been wonderful, and I love seeing all the different player "demands" that the creators were able to put into the expansion. Keep up the good work BioWare.

 

Agreed!

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Some of the armor looks horrid.

You all probably, know which sets I'm referring to. Some of the armor sets are really good though. If you don't like your armor, you won't be as drawn to your character psychologically and will be less likely to keep playing. When I see armor that looks horrid and unpolished, I feel like it's filler. When I see filler, I see mis-management of resources and a game that could potentially struggle, or turn into that nightmare that right now, is just a few bad armor sets.

 

Some of the armour looks horrid to you. No armour set is going to suit all of the people all of the time. The upside is that all of the armour that you are likely to use is moddable so you can transfer them to armour that you do personally like, and BW have moved from set bonuses on armour to set bonuses on the armouring which means there is no penalty at all for doing this.

 

Too much stuff on the cartel market for no-game play.

You want items to feel attainable and worthwhile. If your customers feel like they need to throw money down at just the chance of getting a rare item, this is not fun. There is no feeling of accomplishment and it will eventually give you a bad reputation in the long run. There is a small percentage of big-spenders who will throw a lot of money down, which is good for Bioware, but this needs to be slightly re-worked. This is why card-games are getting away from the Magic the Gathering model where you have only a chance at getting what you want and going toward a Living-Card game model, where you are guaranteed certain items.

 

Most of the things that are actually useful are sold individually or appear on the GTN. The cartel market is there to generate revenue for the game and its full of re-skins of existing items, that means low development costs and short test cycles which is why they can release so much of it.

 

There is nothing on the CM that a subscriber needs, only things that they might want. If it were not for the CM almost all of those items would not be in the game at all.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Arlbo_Nabbins

[Andryah]

It is encouraging to see mostly positive posts like this one, as opposed to the excessive amount of negative posts/topics on the SWTOR forums. This was a thought-out post, and I agree with most of what you said (your last two criticisms honestly don't bother me that much).

 

As you said, I believe the expansion has been wonderful, and I love seeing all the different player "demands" that the creators were able to put into the expansion. Keep up the good work BioWare.

 

Forums have improved a great deal in the last 6 months.

 

It's a combination of the game being stable since rollout of F2P (the sky did not fall afterall ), a good stream of patching that is largely on schedule, and many of the ideological game bashers have moved on to some other game to foam about.

[Vincke]

I agree with your post except the last point. To keep this game going Bioware will need money.

 

The cartel market does not offer any advantage pvp/pve wise endgame. Most of the items can even be bought of the GTN. You have to remember that a large portion of the players is probably F2P, so they don't sub and don't spend anything at the GTN. While it's ofcourse nice that they play and enjoy the game (more players, more fun etc) but they do not contribute financially. Therefore I think it's good that some nice/cool items are only attainable via real money.

[FourPawnBenoni]

Consistently waiting for hour + for hard mode flashpoints as a healer on POT5...not a good sign of health

[Andryah]

Consistently waiting for hour + for hard mode flashpoints as a healer on POT5...not a good sign of health

 

Guess you need a pocket tank then.

[ShmickB]

Consistently waiting for hour + for hard mode flashpoints as a healer on POT5...not a good sign of health

 

Maybe you are on a lot of /ignore lists? Not meant as an insult, just identifying a possibility!

 

I find the GF queues are moving much more briskly than they used to. Different Sever though, "Underpopulated" Dalborra

[Korusus]

Cathar is the last remaining promise from pre-F2P. We've gotten Legacy, HK-51, new space missions, new operations, new warzone, customizable UI, match-to-chest, hide-helm for companions, achievements, Rise of the Hutt Cartel, LFG, adaptable social armor, Section-X etc. etc.

 

They've done a lot to stem the bleeding and improve the game from vanilla. But I too am interested in knowing what we have to look forward to now that all the stuff that was promised at E3 last year has been delivered (on a much longer time scale than I think anyone imagined...minus the Cathar which are still not here).

 

Now is the time to talk about that stuff while the population base is swollen with people that are back to check out Makeb.

[Capote]

I'm on a similar situation and agree with you in almost everything OP. But as a PvPer I just wish they put a little more effort pvp-wise (e.g. balancing classes, x-server queues, season 1, maybe a "solo queue" for rankeds with some kind of matchmaking and so on). Edited April 23, 2013 by Capote

[oakamp]

I largely agree. I think a lot of the roll-outs this year, and RotHC in particular, have been great. Loving the new 55 HM FPs, the Bosses are a genuine challenge without being impossible and my guild have been running multiple per night.

i think the reason u like in FPs can be used in the new OP,

most bosses we can 1 shot clear,

or just wipe once, then next time we can figure it out and defeat it with a PUG!

and even i cant speak english still can coordinate and clean it.

it is a good design, or i just get lucky to play with non-stupid players!

 

now i know why ppl score ROTHC with 9.3 points, higher than 1.x,

i just hope good players play longer, but i think em will fade quickly.

[EhevuTov]

Consistently waiting for hour + for hard mode flashpoints as a healer on POT5...not a good sign of health

 

I think this is a technical issue, in that there isn't enough critical mass per server, not that there's not enough people playing the game entirely. I think they need to bridge the servers and put WZ's and FP's bridged across servers to increase the pool queue.

[Akash]

The look of armor has definitely improved, but some of it is still pretty bad. I'm a "less is more" kind of guy. Give me a simple black robe, some functional looking heavy armor, or some slim profile "living on the edge" barely-there gear for my melee dps characters and I'm happy. Chains, spikes and swag...not so much.

[DarthWoad]

Well, with the introduction of F2P, this game has brought a lot more casual players, because this is a casual game. There is next to no hardcore community, and usually people who criticize the game ("negative posts" in fanboy language) leave because they wanted more of it.

 

There were false promises, and not enough end game content. And people left the game, but if casual players are happy with what they got, thats fine. The reason there aren't as many "negative" posts, is because the most important playerbase which makes an MMO stand up (hardcore community) simply left the game.

 

The only thing keeping this game up are the remaining subs, derps who buy stuff from the cartel market and star wars fans who only play because its star wars.

Edited April 23, 2013 by DarthWoad

[AlaricSevGirl]

Well, with the introduction of F2P, this game has brought a lot more casual players, because this is a casual game. There is next to no hardcore community, and usually people who criticize the game ("negative posts" in fanboy language) leave because they wanted more of it.

 

There were false promises, and not enough end game content. And people left the game, but if casual players are happy with what they got, thats fine. The reason there aren't as many "negative" posts, is because the most important playerbase which makes an MMO stand up (hardcore community) simply left the game.

 

The only thing keeping this game up are the remaining subs, derps who buy stuff from the cartel market and star wars fans who only play because its star wars.

 

1) There are a lot of hard core players here who raid regularly, do HM flashpoints and PvP,..so wrong.

 

2) Because a person likes the stuff on the market and decides to support that game that way, does not make them a derp......so wrong....and why are you still here...

 

3) There are a hell of a lot of negative posts. Do you ever read the forum? So WRONG.

[FeelFlow]

Great post - I only joined the game in March 2012, just before the Legacy patch - and it was not at all fun to play an MMO without a group finder in 2012!

 

The armour seems to be getting a lot better - see today's cartel pack. Having said that, I get your point about too much being available on the cartel market, only. I guess BW have to make some money.

 

Having said that, I think that subscribers should maybe be able to buy individual items from the packs - just sayin'!

[DarthWoad]

1) There are a lot of hard core players here who raid regularly, do HM flashpoints and PvP,..so wrong.

 

2) Because a person likes the stuff on the market and decides to support that game that way, does not make them a derp......so wrong....and why are you still here...

 

3) There are a hell of a lot of negative posts. Do you ever read the forum? So WRONG.

 

1) Hm flashpoints SO HARDCORE

 

2) Why are you still here? shouldnt you be in game buying stuff off the cartel market? Supporting EA who you love so dearly?

 

3) And you call them negative simply because you dont agree with them, or are in denial.

[Kilora]

Well, with the introduction of F2P, this game has brought a lot more casual players, because this is a casual game. There is next to no hardcore community, and usually people who criticize the game ("negative posts" in fanboy language) leave because they wanted more of it.

 

There were false promises, and not enough end game content. And people left the game, but if casual players are happy with what they got, thats fine. The reason there aren't as many "negative" posts, is because the most important playerbase which makes an MMO stand up (hardcore community) simply left the game.

 

The only thing keeping this game up are the remaining subs, derps who buy stuff from the cartel market and star wars fans who only play because its star wars.

 

 

LOL, you joking?

 

The "hardcore" community is NOT what makes an MMO stand up. QUITE the opposite. Y'all get bored no matter what the devs do, and move on. Happened in FFXI, EQ, WoW -- will always happen. There is a SMALL percent of people who finish "all" of the content in days/weeks.

 

For those of us who have jobs, and can't play 40+ hours every week, they've started to smarted up. I have a "casual" play schedule, because of RL, but still haven't done ALL of the content.

 

The majority of people AREN'T happy with how poorly end-game was thought out at launch. However, we use our brains and realize they made a mistake -- even ADMITTED to the mistake -- and our now playing catch-up.

 

The "hardcore" community is a joke. Plain and simple. Solely the fact they call themselves "hardcore" makes them pretentious children sitting in their parent's basements.

 

 

TL;DR -- "Hardcore" players are a joke. They ARE NOT the crux of ANY MMO community. Just because we're here, doesn't mean we're 100% pleased. It means we're optimistic, and currently finding a way to enjoy what we have. Don't even start using "casual" as an insult or put-down, because that's ridiculous.

[AlaricSevGirl]

1) Hm flashpoints SO HARDCORE

 

2) Why are you still here? shouldnt you be in game buying stuff off the cartel market? Supporting EA who you love so dearly?

 

3) And you call them negative simply because you dont agree with them, or are in denial.

 

1) progressive raids are hardcore but honestly here's a definition for you...

 

Hardcore Gamer

 

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

 

Hardcore gamers tend to care less about graphics then casual gamers. While some specialize in a single genre, they typically have fairly diverse taste in games, frequently playing a wide variety of games from different genres. They'll often seek out obscure and older games, based on word of mouth or positive critical reception. Hardcore gamers put good gameplay above all else, and don't mind if a good game has poor (or even nonexistent) graphics, sound, characters and plot.

 

2) How I spend my money is frankly none of your business. If you don't like EA/BW, go elsewhere and stop the childish name calling.

 

3) Negative posts are not posts I don't agree with, they are posts with name calling, ie derps, slander, calling Bioware devs names etc. Wow, you really need some schooling don't you.

[Shingara]

Forums have improved a great deal in the last 6 months.

 

It's a combination of the game being stable since rollout of F2P (the sky did not fall afterall ), a good stream of patching that is largely on schedule, and many of the ideological game bashers have moved on to some other game to foam about.

 

I think thats due to the vast majority of the water army have left and gone on to troll other mmo forums. of course there will always be peeps who jump from pillar to post and everything they see is the best thing since sliced bread until they have played it for a few days.

 

Obviously we still have a few auto haters which is most noticable when they state the patch has bugged there game when the patch hasnt even been deployed yet, ive seen a few of those today. Also i find most of the negative things said about this game come from other website comments section from people who dont even play the game anymore and havnt for close to a year.

 

gamebreaker can fall into this alot of the time, one of the funniest things i saw was on a show a few weeks back where gary was on about how skimpy clothes are so not star wars and what are they doing, all this time he was talking to larry who has a princes lea cutout behind him and lea is in a slave girl outfit showing enough flesh to make an old man *****.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Shingara

[DarthWoad]

1) progressive raids are hardcore but honestly here's a definition for you...

 

Hardcore Gamer

 

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

 

Hardcore gamers tend to care less about graphics then casual gamers. While some specialize in a single genre, they typically have fairly diverse taste in games, frequently playing a wide variety of games from different genres. They'll often seek out obscure and older games, based on word of mouth or positive critical reception. Hardcore gamers put good gameplay above all else, and don't mind if a good game has poor (or even nonexistent) graphics, sound, characters and plot.

 

2) How I spend my money is frankly none of your business. If you don't like EA/BW, go elsewhere and stop the childish name calling.

 

3) Negative posts are not posts I don't agree with, they are posts with name calling, ie derps, slander, calling Bioware devs names etc. Wow, you really need some schooling don't you.

 

1) progressive raids arent hardcore. the only hardcore thing about this game is nightmare modes. And those are pretty easy to do

 

2) you dont like it? dont play it then, just leave.

 

3) Usually people call posts negative if they have constructive criticism. Your 3rd point is pretty ironic. I guess you just made a negative post.

[DarthWoad]

LOL, you joking?

 

The "hardcore" community is NOT what makes an MMO stand up. QUITE the opposite. Y'all get bored no matter what the devs do, and move on. Happened in FFXI, EQ, WoW -- will always happen. There is a SMALL percent of people who finish "all" of the content in days/weeks.

 

For those of us who have jobs, and can't play 40+ hours every week, they've started to smarted up. I have a "casual" play schedule, because of RL, but still haven't done ALL of the content.

 

The majority of people AREN'T happy with how poorly end-game was thought out at launch. However, we use our brains and realize they made a mistake -- even ADMITTED to the mistake -- and our now playing catch-up.

 

The "hardcore" community is a joke. Plain and simple. Solely the fact they call themselves "hardcore" makes them pretentious children sitting in their parent's basements.

 

 

TL;DR -- "Hardcore" players are a joke. They ARE NOT the crux of ANY MMO community. Just because we're here, doesn't mean we're 100% pleased. It means we're optimistic, and currently finding a way to enjoy what we have. Don't even start using "casual" as an insult or put-down, because that's ridiculous.

 

 

 

Hardcore players are the players that make the game stand up, you must be mistaken. This game is entirely casual, theres nothing hardcore about it. Which is why 80% of subs left a few months after release. The levelling process is quick and theres no end game.

 

What do I mean by "hardcore"? I mean dedicated players, players who want to progress, people who have a lot of time to play the game. Server populations and guilds quickly lost their numbers because levelling is so quick. Which as a result, this game went F2P.

 

Thats exactly my point. People like you may work loads, and not have enough time to do everything. Which is why you are called a casual gamer. You do realise there are people who have MORE time than you right? Some of these players want their moneys worth out of the game, some people play to progress. Hardcore players play to progress. At a certain point in this game, the progression stops, which is rather quickly.

 

Simple fact is, if this game had loads of hardcore end game content, it wouldnt be as bad as the state of it now. And like you said we agree they made a mistake, but i think its too late now. SWTOR has a bad mark on it, it was overhyped.

 

TD;DR "Casual" players are a joke.

 

See we can just throw insults at each other all day.

Edited April 23, 2013 by DarthWoad

[Kilora]

Hardcore players are the players that make the game stand up, you must be mistaken. This game is entirely casual, theres nothing hardcore about it. Which is why 80% of subs left a few months after release. The levelling process is quick and theres no end game.

 

What do I mean by "hardcore"? I mean dedicated players, players who want to progress, people who have a lot of time to play the game. Server populations and guilds quickly lost their numbers because levelling is so quick. Which as a result, this game went F2P.

 

Thats exactly my point. People like you may work loads, and not have enough time to do everything. Which is why you are called a casual gamer. You do realise there are people who have MORE time than you right? Some of these players want their moneys worth out of the game, some people play to progress. Hardcore players play to progress. At a certain point in this game, the progression stops, which is rather quickly.

 

Simple fact is, if this game had loads of hardcore end game content, it wouldnt be as bad as the state of it now. And like you said we agree they made a mistake, but i think its too late now. SWTOR has a bad mark on it, it was overhyped.

 

TD;DR "Casual" players are a joke.

 

See we can just throw insults at each other all day.

 

Seems funny that you continue to tout on about "hardcore" players -- the same ones that the VAST majority of devs now IGNORE. Because they're HOPELESS.

 

Please, show me the proof that 80% of subs left. Ontop of that -- show me ANY level of evidence that the MAJORITY of those that left did so because of lack of endgame.

 

Not a single game has "hardcore end game content." FFXI tried to do this by a constant stream of sub-par expansion. WoW never even tried -- almost every serious guild in the game had all of the raids finished within 2-3 weeks. Many in less than a week. The only times it has ever taken longer? When the company found a way to artificially slow the time -- almost always by some special lockout, or not releasing content all at once.

 

I've yet to meet a mature adult who would call themselves "hardcore." I wouldn't even call myself hardcore when I was raiding 20 hours a week, and playing 50+. I also didn't claim I was the second coming -- or that games relied on me. Why? Because it isn't true. BASIC logic can tell you that. It takes much longer for content to be created than it does for people to complete it -- especially when some people are playing for an unhealthy amount of time. Sorry -- but playing for 60 hours a week isn't healthy, it's an addiction.

 

Intelligent people also realize that, in an MMO, there IS no such thing as "crazy difficult". It all boils down to numbers and paying attention. I've yet to hear experienced raiders call ANYTHING difficult.

 

Maybe YOU should get off of your high horse and realize you're not only a minority -- but you're part or a minority that has already lost its relevance. WoW is continuing to cater to casual gamers, and making more and more money every day. SWTOR is in the same boat -- they're CONTINUING to grow, and why? SOLELY because of the casual gamers you think don't matter, and are some how lesser than you.