So why isn't Kreia mentioned at all?

[Slowpokeking]

Again, Darth Traya could be lying, remember she was facing a Dark Council member and the Emperor's Wrath, it's not wise to reveal her true purpose.

[Darth_Wicked]

Again, Darth Traya could be lying, remember she was facing a Dark Council member and the Emperor's Wrath, it's not wise to reveal her true purpose.

 

Her true purpose would seem to be alone and forgotten, not a plan to take over the Galaxy.

[Uvirith]

Traya would have made a perfect master for the Sith Inquisitor

[Hirilonde]

They did shoot his dog in a sense. They created a game where everything doesn't revolve around Revan

 

So in TOR he gets his revenge. Kreia is reduced to a generic Sith fangirl. The Exile dies a meaningless, ignoble death. And we find that Revan, naturally, has single-handedly been keeping the Emperor and the Empire at bay all these centuries and also prevented it from capitalizing on the Sack of Coruscant.

 

I'm not sure that tracks, given that as soon as Revan is freed, he basically goes genocidal, dips back into the old Rakatan superweapons, and is well on his way to becoming Darth Revan again when he is rather brutally put down by Imperial agents who, shockingly, actually have the moral high ground on this one (Revan was planning to kill ANYONE who had Sith (as in Pureblood) genetic material... which worked out to over 90% of the Imperial populace. Civilians. Families. Children.)

 

In the end, all of his character development in KOTOR is undone, and, as he says as he quotes Malak, "In the end, I am nothing"

 

No, Revan got shafted just as hard as the Exile or Kreia.

[GAG_Caedus]

Traya would have made a perfect master for the Sith Inquisitor

I never thought about this. If so, SI story would be my favorite.

[Pietrastor]

I never thought about this. If so, SI story would be my favorite.

Can't really see how would it work with her unique goals and vision of the universe. As much as I love her, I could only see it working if she led 3rd, independent faction. Or if Inquisitor class story could have actual overall-story ramifications, namely by actually killing the Emperor. Because that's the only thing I could see Kreia be doing in TOR timeline (other than continuing to try to kill the Force), the Emperor's represents everything she despises the most. Edited April 23, 2013 by Pietrastor

[Darth_Wicked]

Can't really see how would it work with her unique goals and vision of the universe. As much as I love her, I could only see it working if she led 3rd, independent faction. Or if Inquisitor class story could have actual overall-story ramifications, namely by actually killing the Emperor. Because that's the only thing I could see Kreia be doing in TOR timeline (other than continuing to try to kill the Force), the Emperor's represents everything she despises the most.

 

And yet if memory serves me right, she says that Baras either disturbed or desecrated her resting place, where she was waiting for her love, "our" Emperor. Either I'm reading it wrong or she's being cryptic as hell, given her condition.

[krakadyla]

Dude. You are confusing real Kreia, the one from KOTOR2 who wanted to obliterate the Force, with retcon "Kreia" aka the imbecile crone in Sith Warrior storyline. They're different characters.

[Darth_Wicked]

Dude. You are confusing real Kreia, the one from KOTOR2 who wanted to obliterate the Force, with retcon "Kreia" aka the imbecile crone in Sith Warrior storyline. They're different characters.

 

That's harsh but probably true. Or perhaps the Emperor is actually a heartbreaker in his spare time and he got along just fine with Kreia, during the time she went AWOL.

[Zardac_the_Great]

It sort of makes sense for KOTOR 2 not to show up too much in this game.

 

First off, the Exile was not as widely known as Revan was. Also, Revan's victory over Malak was probably well publicised. He'd be in history texts and such.

 

The Exile was probably not particularly well known even in her time. She was a wash-out general from one of the battles where Revan took the notoriety for winning (everyone knows General MacAurthur, but who knows his underlings?), then tried to go as incognito as possible, being a sort of wandering hermit. Then she traveled around and did some stuff, but always trying to hide who she was in an effort to avoid whoever it was who was hounding her.

 

The most she's probably known for is bringing together the people who reconstituted the Jedi Order.

 

Now Kreia would have been the unkown passenger and equally unknown enemy of a largely unkown jedi. There may be a footnote on her in the Jedi Archives...burried with trillions of other bits on information, but even on the Hawk, many people didn't seem to notice she was there at times. In short, Kreia was an unknown person, traveling with a little known person, who didn't want to be noticed. Of course she's not going to be talked about three hundred yeas later.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Zardac_the_Great

[BrianDavion]

It sort of makes sense for KOTOR 2 not to show up too much in this game.

 

First off, the Exile was not as widely known as Revan was. Also, Revan's victory over Malak was probably well publicised. He'd be in history texts and such.

 

The Exile was probably not particularly well known even in her time. She was a wash-out general from one of the battles where Revan took the notoriety for winning (everyone knows General MacAurthur, but who knows his underlings?), then tried to go as incognito as possible, being a sort of wandering hermit. Then she traveled around and did some stuff, but always trying to hide who she was in an effort to avoid whoever it was who was hounding her.

 

The most she's probably known for is bringing together the people who reconstituted the Jedi Order.

 

Now Kreia would have been the unkown passenger and equally unknown enemy of a largely unkown jedi. There may be a footnote on her in the Jedi Archives...burried with trillions of other bits on information, but even on the Hawk, many people didn't seem to notice she was there at times. In short, Kreia was an unknown person, traveling with a little known person, who didn't want to be noticed. Of course she's not going to be talked about three hundred yeas later.

 

 

pretty much exactly this. love or hate KOTOR 2, you gotta place it in context. not a whole lot of people even knew about Kreia. and those who did had no particular reason to talk her up

[Darka]

Im pretty sure Bioware stated it was because KOTOR was the headline, KOTOR 2 was the small article on the back page in terms of galactic event coverage

It happened but didnt get the front page

[dewback_rancher]

Reading Darth Revan, and there are definite retcons to KOTOR 2's story in TOR lore.

 

For example, everyone remembers how the Exile heard about the Sith from Kreia, right? How at the end of the game she flies off to find Revan straight from the Malachor system?

 

According to Revan the novel, Revan was the only one who knew about them (Meetra thinks to herself that Revan was the one who was worried about it, in a scene that takes place post-KOTOR 2!). And she doesn't leave until a while after the events of KOTOR 2.

 

Reason Kreia's not getting mentioned much is that BioWare is shoehorning the story to fit their vision, forget whatever details, big or small, they contradict.

Edited April 25, 2013 by dewback_rancher

[Darth_Wicked]

Reading Darth Revan, and there are definite retcons to KOTOR 2's story in TOR lore.

 

The novel is called Revan, not Darth Revan.

 

For example, everyone remembers how the Exile heard about the Sith from Kreia, right? How at the end of the game she flies off to find Revan straight from the Malachor system?

 

Nothing in that ending actually indicates that the Exile left immediately to search for Revan, not to mention that the Unknown Regions is a big place and she had no freaking clue of where she was supposed to go next. How do you think the Sith Emperor was able to keep Dromund Kaas and his Empire hidden from the Republic, for more than 1300(!!!) years?

 

If you read the novel, you're also aware that Revan himself didn't get to Dromund Kaas in a flash.

 

According to Revan the novel, Revan was the only one who knew about them (Meetra thinks to herself that Revan was the one who was worried about it, in a scene that takes place post-KOTOR 2!). And she doesn't leave until a while after the events of KOTOR 2.

 

According to the novel, Revan didn't knew what you're saying he knew, since, as we all know, he got his memory wiped, courtesy of the Jedi Council.

 

Reason Kreia's not getting mentioned much is that BioWare is shoehorning the story to fit their vision, forget whatever details, big or small, they contradict.

 

Truth be told, there's not much of a reason to mention her at all, just like there's currently no reason to mention Sion, Nihilus and so forth, other than the fact that most of us - yours truly - love the character.

 

You get - supposedly - a cameo in the SW storyline and that's it... Could be better but it could also be worse. Sounds pretty much a like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of situation.

 

- - - -

 

And while at it, when we're talking about Kreia, who are we talking about? Arren Kae, Darth Traya, Lord of Betrayal or just Kreia...?!

Edited April 25, 2013 by Darth_Wicked

[dewback_rancher]

According to the novel, Revan didn't knew what you're saying he knew, since, as we all know, he got his memory wiped, courtesy of the Jedi Council.

 

Not the Sith Empire, precisely, but he appears to have been the only one worried.

 

From Meetra's own thoughts,

"Revan had left Bastila behind because he feared the greatest threat to the Republic's survival was lurking in the Unknown Regions."

 

We actually see Revan leave on said quest.

 

It's established he knew something was out there, as he keeps having nightmares about Dromund Kaas. IIRC the novel opens on one such nightmare.

 

And Meetra apparently finds out the Sith are resurgent not because of Kreia's words, but because Revan is captured by Sith and she sees a holorecording. It's played like she'd never heard the Sith were out there, and this is some big new revelation.

 

My point wasn't that Revan knew the Sith were out there aside from knowing there was some big threat out there, but that despite what KOTOR II shows, the Exile doesn't. Revan knew something was out there. And despite the warning about the True Sith in KOTOR II, the Exile is played like she'd never heard of any such threat.

Edited April 25, 2013 by dewback_rancher

[Darth_Wicked]

Not the Sith Empire, precisely, but he appears to have been the only one worried.

 

He was the only one having nightmares after all and again, not even he knew for sure what it was all about. Still, the novel doesn't exactly contradict the game.

 

From Meetra's own thoughts,

"Revan had left Bastila behind because he feared the greatest threat to the Republic's survival was lurking in the Unknown Regions."

 

We actually see Revan leave on said quest.

 

No contradiction at all IMO. Also, you should also take into account that not everyone who read the novel played KoTOR 2 and therefore, some context for them may be required.

 

I, for one, found bothersome the pointless beginning, where Revan and Bastila exchange lines of dialogue that I found a complete waste of time but again were required for those unfamiliar with the KoTOR games.

 

It's established he knew something was out there, as he keeps having nightmares about Dromund Kaas. IIRC the novel opens on one such nightmare.

 

And Meetra apparently finds out the Sith are resurgent not because of Kreia's words, but because Revan is captured by Sith and she sees a holorecording. It's played like she'd never heard the Sith were out there, and this is some big new revelation.

 

You do realize that Kreia was about to kick the bucket and she only says that the True Sith lie somewhere, beyond the Unknown Regions and / or in the dark. Not much to go on I'd say, not to mention she was facing the Exile just a few seconds ago.

 

Also, like I've said before, context; Not everyone who read the novel played the previous games. Having in mind it's called "Star Wars: The Old Republic - Revan", one can assume the game is supposed to cater not only to KoTOR fans but also people that are into The Old Republic MMO.

 

My point wasn't that Revan knew the Sith were out there aside from knowing there was some big threat out there, but that despite what KOTOR II shows, the Exile doesn't.

 

And she didn't, at least not for sure, since unlike Revan, Malak and perhaps Kreia, she never faced or met the Sith head on.

 

Revan knew something was out there. And despite the warning about the True Sith in KOTOR II, the Exile is played like she'd never heard of any such threat.

 

Already explained above.

[seekerofpower]

It sort of makes sense for KOTOR 2 not to show up too much in this game.

 

First off, the Exile was not as widely known as Revan was. Also, Revan's victory over Malak was probably well publicised. He'd be in history texts and such.

 

The Exile was probably not particularly well known even in her time. She was a wash-out general from one of the battles where Revan took the notoriety for winning (everyone knows General MacAurthur, but who knows his underlings?), then tried to go as incognito as possible, being a sort of wandering hermit. Then she traveled around and did some stuff, but always trying to hide who she was in an effort to avoid whoever it was who was hounding her.

 

Ummm... She was responsible for the destruction of an entire planet. I think she gained a respectable level of notoriety for herself.

 

Now Kreia would have been the unkown passenger and equally unknown enemy of a largely unkown jedi. There may be a footnote on her in the Jedi Archives...burried with trillions of other bits on information, but even on the Hawk, many people didn't seem to notice she was there at times. In short, Kreia was an unknown person, traveling with a little known person, who didn't want to be noticed. Of course she's not going to be talked about three hundred yeas later.

 

Kreia was one of Revan's masters both at the Jedi Academy and the one he went back to when the rest of the council turned their backs on him.

[WickedDjinn]

Keep in mind, by the end of Kotor 2 every Jedi Master who really knew who Kreia was, end up *dead*.

 

And the exile is... well, an exile. You have to consider what that really means. She was essentially swept under the rug after that. Not to mention that, like Kreia, just about everyone of power and influence who knee her true story ends up dead by the end.

 

Kotor 2 isn't a grand, sweeping epic that ends in a celebration and reknown for the hero. It was a deeply personal tale about putting ones affairs in order and dealing with the shadows of ones prior actions.

[Pietrastor]

Keep in mind, by the end of Kotor 2 every Jedi Master who really knew who Kreia was, end up *dead*.

But the Handmaiden/Mical, Visas, Atton etc all knew her and they're the ones who rebuilt the Order. Not to mention that Revan is back in TOR and he knew Kreia damn well and what he didn't knew about her he last saw her he heard from the Exile.

 

 

Kotor 2 isn't a grand, sweeping epic that ends in a celebration and reknown for the hero. It was a deeply personal tale about putting ones affairs in order and dealing with the shadows of ones prior actions.

Of course, but that doesn't change the profound insight on the Force Kreia and the Exile contributed. And like I said, with Revan back and the founders of the new Jedi Order post-K2 all knowing Kreia and what she and the Exile learned on the nature of the Force, it is just weird to me that it's completely disregarded. Especially in the context of the Emperor.

[Ausstig]

I mean, she's like one of the most unique, memorable and complex characters in Star Wars universe ever.

 

No she is not.

 

All she does is talk down to you. I find her extremely unlikeable and frankly I don't get why people like her?

 

Is it like the joker?

[Pietrastor]

No she is not.

 

All she does is talk down to you. I find her extremely unlikeable and frankly I don't get why people like her?

 

Is it like the joker?

A character doesn't have to be funny/charming/likeable to be great character and thus loved.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Pietrastor

[Bleeters]

Considering how much Karpyshyn botched the Exile in everything that came after KotOR2 - and let's be clear here, I'm talking outright character assasination levels of screwup - I'm glad Kreia never turns up in swtor.

 

If the sith entity during the Warrior storyline is meant to be her, that only confirms my suspicions that they can't actually portray her remotely correctly and would be better off just not trying.

[Euphrosyne]

A character doesn't have to be funny/charming/likeable to be great character and thus loved.

Yeah, I didn't really like her - Vergere did the same thing, but much better - but I can recognize that other people did. And either way, Kreia still had to have had some effect on the resurrected Jedi Order through her interactions with the Exile's crew.

[NobleSpec]

Not much of KOTOR2 exists in TOR and I have to imagine that has alot to do with the fact that Bioware didn't make KOTOR2.

 

KOTOR2 didn't really extend the first game or rather it was more of a game set in the same universe, and same time period, more than it was a direct sequel. As a result of that though it made it really easy for Bioware to ignore alot of it when it came to TOR.

 

This is actually pretty common for Obsidian's games. For instance I don't imagine that Fallout New Vegas will have much of an impact on Fallout 4 if any at all.

 

Will they allow us to Forget about SWTOR so they can make a KOTOR 3? like they forgot about KOTOR2

[idnewton]

I hate to break it to you, but kreia's dead. I LoS'd her and then dragged her through fifteen mines. I'm not sure why she'd have a reason to appear in SWTOR. However, it may be interesting to try and make a Kreia toon