Dealdrick Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Guys, lvl 55 warzone PvP is a serious problem. I'm not even talking about class balance, but just the bolster mechanic. It is literally game breaking. If you dont start talking to your player base about what the problem is and what you are doing to fix it, you WILL lose subs. And let's be real, I'm not talking about some copy/paste response that says "we are aware of the issue....." That will not cut it. Right now, max level PvP is utterly broken. This is not some small matter. Start talking to the people that pay you subscription fees, and start doing it yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 In fairness, Eric seems to be trying to be as communicative as possible. It just appears so that this entire situation is so seriously messed up that they currently are fixing on issue at a time and not noticing if any "fix" breaks another thing and with no clue when it all will work. I think there was a very good post in another thread which sums it up quite nicely: The devs came up with a complex system about how to implement their "idea" that is so far beyond their capabilities to control, that even though it was on the Test Server, after it has gone live they are still scrambling to patch and make major changes and course reversals. For example, the WH/EWH gear; first they acknowledged it wasn't working right in the bolster system, then that it will, then they ultimately couldn't make it work so they decided to strip expertise from it, and they are still trying to fix things such as "naked bolster" (you can search the dev posts to research this). They are doing all this in a desperate, but failing, attempt to get a handle on it, if that tells you anything. None of these things are fixing their problems and they are actually getting worse, by all accounts, with their attempts to MacGyver solutions. FUBAR is an exceedingly appropriate term. Instead of a gear progression, it's a "let me figure out what I need to remove and/or strip out of my gear through blind experimentation to boost my stats to their highest possible level so I can be competitive with others that have done the same." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanas Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 From my part they have 1 month to fix this garbage and then 1 am out. 90% of the crap we have to face now should have been fixed on the PTS... IT SHOULD NOT make it to live but people got greedy and well... ****... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burtlebe Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 What issues are you having? Honestly on the Shadowlands Server, the good pvpers are still winning and the ones who where just geared pvps are loosing to good pvpers. Once you take the time to get the new gear, there is still a good size gap that makes up for skill some just not like it was before. I am not a dieheard pvp, there are folks on my server who I knew where good, yep new gear they still roll me but against folks I always suspected were not good, I now can beat them even though they are ahead of me in the gear race. I do know there are several bugs still they are working on but nothing appears to be that drastic. And let me qualify when I say I am a casual pvper I didn't mean I play an hour or so a week, I meant I consider myself casual cause I have handicaps that prevent me from doing a lot of the things the competitive folks do like key binding and mouse turning. I typically level my chars up from 10 to 50 in pvp doing pve only when class quests are about to grey out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dealdrick Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 In fairness, Eric seems to be trying to be as communicative as possible. It just appears so that this entire situation is so seriously messed up that they currently are fixing on issue at a time and not noticing if any "fix" breaks another thing and with no clue when it all will work. I think there was a very good post in another thread which sums it up quite nicely: Agreed, Eric is trying, but so far the only real communication has been "hi guys, I'll tell the Devs about you are having issues." That is just verification of one way communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple-Punch Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Lmao - fubar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dealdrick Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 What issues are you having? Honestly on the Shadowlands Server, the good pvpers are still winning and the ones who where just geared pvps are loosing to good pvpers. Once you take the time to get the new gear, there is still a good size gap that makes up for skill some just not like it was before. I am not a dieheard pvp, there are folks on my server who I knew where good, yep new gear they still roll me but against folks I always suspected were not good, I now can beat them even though they are ahead of me in the gear race. I do know there are several bugs still they are working on but nothing appears to be that drastic. And let me qualify when I say I am a casual pvper I didn't mean I play an hour or so a week, I meant I consider myself casual cause I have handicaps that prevent me from doing a lot of the things the competitive folks do like key binding and mouse turning. I typically level my chars up from 10 to 50 in pvp doing pve only when class quests are about to grey out. The bolster mechanic is totally FUBAR, just look at this forum and read for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I do know there are several bugs still they are working on but nothing appears to be that drastic. So people with 45k HP in a WZ (when the avarage is 28K) is not drastic? Having to figure out which parts of the gear you should REMOVE in order to get better stats is not a drastic bug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burtlebe Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 The bolster mechanic is totally FUBAR, just look at this forum and read for yourself. I am just saying, explain in a coherent manner the ways you think its Fubar cause honestly only thing I seen is QQ with a few grains of calm explanations mixed in. I played in 4 or 5 matches last night and to me it seemed to be a lot of fun. Close matches with the exception of one with ID in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dealdrick Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 I am just saying, explain in a coherent manner the ways you think its Fubar cause honestly only thing I seen is QQ with a few grains of calm explanations mixed in. I played in 4 or 5 matches last night and to me it seemed to be a lot of fun. Close matches with the exception of one with ID in it. Upgrades aren't really upgrades when you get into a WZ. People are getting better stats by REMOVING mods from certain pieces, or equipping lvl 31 greens. Adding a piece of gear with expertise on it is practically a penalty. FUBAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcappah Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 39 days left on my cancelled subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burtlebe Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 So people with 45k HP in a WZ (when the avarage is 28K) is not drastic? Having to figure out which parts of the gear you should REMOVE in order to get better stats is not a drastic bug? Thank you, that is what I was trying to figure out. I guess the folks I played against either didn't know about the bug or was just having fun without trying to find ways to exhort the systems cause I didn't see anyone in the matches I was in that had stats like that. If the issue is this then seems to me they could fix it so that any slot missing from a gear receive no bolster. Matter fo fact have it treat 55 differently in that any gear missing would get no bolster. Seems to me if what you are saying is the case then they are using the same bolster for 55 as sub 55 which case if they modify the bolster for 55 to base the bolster on the mod level they could fix this. Where say the highest point to be bolstered to (while also being under the rate for the actual pvp gear) would goto the highest level pve gear and then down from there. This would allow folks who play warzones and be competive yet still allow those who grind for pvp gear to get an slight advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) I am just saying, explain in a coherent manner the ways you think its Fubar cause honestly only thing I seen is QQ. I suppose the CS peeps are just QQ'ing as well, amirite? They've acknowledged that there are issues, try researching it yourself instead of filling these forums will drooling responses asking what is wrong (plenty of posts explaining as much). kktks Edited April 17, 2013 by Pistols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) Agreed, Eric is trying, but so far the only real communication has been "hi guys, I'll tell the Devs about you are having issues." That is just verification of one way communication. Actually, that's not true. I have seen Alex Modny provide a full treatment categorical explanation of their present challenges with Bolster and I have seen Rob Hinkle chime in on what the set target Expertise amount for T1 PvE Gear is in the new Bolster. That's contributions from both of the main PvP Devs to these forums in the past week. Personally, I would rather they be working at correcting the issues than posting frequently on the PvP Forums. The efforts by Eric Macuso (sp?) have been very welcome as well. I know a lot of PvP peeps are jumping ship, and frankly, I don't blame them. However, I'm going to stick it out with the team. I've been here since EGA and suffered through one "crisis" after another in PvP since that time. This time is no different. Fortunately, we do have a team of guys working on it that do seem to care about the end result. I see the big picture of what they are trying to do and actually support the majority of it (aside from having Bolster in RWZs). I'm personally willing to give them more time. Thing is, even with all the fubar, I'm still having a great deal of fun playing the game. Nekkid PvP was epic! Edited April 17, 2013 by DarthOvertone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dealdrick Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 Actually, that's not true. I have seen Alex Modny provide a full treatment categorical explanation of their present challenges with Bolster and I have seen Rob Hinkle chime in on what the set target Expertise amount for T1 PvE Gear is in the new Bolster. That's contributions from both of the main PvP Devs to these forums in the past week. Personally, I would rather they be working at correcting the issues than posting frequently on the PvP Forums. The efforts by Eric Macuso (sp?) have been very welcome as well. I know a lot of PvP peeps are jumping ship, and frankly, I don't blame them. However, I'm going to stick it out with the team. I've been here since EGA and suffered through one "crisis" after another in PvP since that time. This time is no different. Fortunately, we do have a team of guys working on it that do seem to care about the end result. I see the big picture of what they are trying to do and actually support the majority of it (aside from having Bolster in RWZs). I'm personally willing to give them more time. Thing is, even with all the fubar, I'm still having a great deal of fun playing the game. Nekkid PvP was epic! And was that before or after the "fix" that was applied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Thank you, that is what I was trying to figure out. I guess the folks I played against either didn't know about the bug or was just having fun without trying to find ways to exhort the systems cause I didn't see anyone in the matches I was in that had stats like that. Hmm... "exhort the system". The problem is: Where does "exhorting the system" start? Playing naked (at least partly)? Using low level green gear for better stats? Removing all expertise crystals from old gear? Playing with empty orange shells? Removing you enhancements from PVE gear for better stats? Removing Augmentations? Using PVE gear instead of PVP gear? So you tell me: Is itemization supposed to be aboout theorycrafting or Voodoo? Because it sure looks like Voodoo now, and I am sadly not into the occult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dealdrick Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 Thank you, that is what I was trying to figure out. I guess the folks I played against either didn't know about the bug or was just having fun without trying to find ways to exhort the systems cause I didn't see anyone in the matches I was in that had stats like that. its not an exploit, its just people trying to min/max. The fact that using 31 greens and empty mod slots is better just shows how broken the system is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) Hmm... "exhort the system". The problem is: Where does "exhorting the system" start? Playing naked (at least partly)? Using low level green gear for better stats? Removing all expertise crystals from old gear? Playing with empty orange shells? Removing you enhancements from PVE gear for better stats? Removing Augmentations? Using PVE gear instead of PVP gear? So you tell me: Is itemization supposed to be aboout theorycrafting or Voodoo? Because it sure looks like Voodoo now, and I am sadly not into the occult. Either they didn't notice those problems ( incompetence) or they thought they could be fixed fast ( incompetence) Edited April 17, 2013 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 And was that before or after the "fix" that was applied? Modny before. Hinkle after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dealdrick Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 Modny before. Hinkle after. So, the only thing we have seen from the devs since the "fix" is a comment about the expertise target for PvE gear. The problem has been how bolster effected things with expertise on them, PvP gear. That is what the "fix" was supposed to address. It's not like there weren't threads about bolster while 2.0 was still on the PTS. Go figure, another BW content update where the problems that testers pointed out on PTS are still there, and arguably even worse, when they go live. How does this constitute communication about the problem? Just because someone made a yellow post since the patch doesn't mean they are communicating with us in an acceptable manner about the mistakes they are making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) Actually, that's not true. I have seen Alex Modny provide a full treatment categorical explanation of their present challenges with Bolster and I have seen Rob Hinkle chime in on what the set target Expertise amount for T1 PvE Gear is in the new Bolster. That's contributions from both of the main PvP Devs to these forums in the past week. Personally, I would rather they be working at correcting the issues than posting frequently on the PvP Forums. The efforts by Eric Macuso (sp?) have been very welcome as well. I know a lot of PvP peeps are jumping ship, and frankly, I don't blame them. However, I'm going to stick it out with the team. I've been here since EGA and suffered through one "crisis" after another in PvP since that time. This time is no different. Fortunately, we do have a team of guys working on it that do seem to care about the end result. I see the big picture of what they are trying to do and actually support the majority of it (aside from having Bolster in RWZs). I'm personally willing to give them more time. Thing is, even with all the fubar, I'm still having a great deal of fun playing the game. Nekkid PvP was epic! I feel sorry for the poor developers. Surely some have pinpointed the errors. But some others didn't listen and the customers (pvpers) don't care about early broken systems. Edited April 17, 2013 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) HS... Bioware, just make a flat Bolster for each slot. Excluding mods, gear level, etc. No PVP mods (or PVE barrel for example...) - apply flat Bolster to WH level + 1700 expertise. Uber-PVE gear? Lower stats on this abomination to WH level + 1700 expertise. Plain and simple! Edited April 17, 2013 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dealdrick Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 HS... Bioware, just make a flat Bolster for each slot. Excluding mods, gear level, etc. No PVP mods (or PVE barrel for example...) - apply flat Bolster to WH level + 1700 expertise. Uber-PVE gear? Lower stats on this abomination to WH level + 1700 expertise. Plain and simple! Or, don't bolster the 55 bracket at all....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBama Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Or, don't bolster the 55 bracket at all....... I don't like the bolster either, but how would a fresh 55 with 0 expertise versus a guy with a 60% damage bonus fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 How does this constitute communication about the problem? Just because someone made a yellow post since the patch doesn't mean they are communicating with us in an acceptable manner about the mistakes they are making. You asked if the Devs had communicated at all. I gave you evidence that they have. Now you are stating that communication is not good enough for you? Brother man, given the state of the patch, I hope to god the Devs don't waste time talking back and forth with the players - the majority of which are just QQing and panicking. Rather, they would be much better off in their Dev war room banging as hard as they can on solutions and fixes to overcome the problems. Just based on the Dev communication we have received in the past week I can tell you that they do read these forums and that they are keeping abreast of the feedback from PvPers. When they get an opportunity, they provide their own insight and feedback on what they are working on. Isn't that enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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