Do something BW...losing subs is coming

[TalkingDinosaur]

If the majority of SWTOR's subs are PvPers then I'm George Bush.

[Uvirith]

PvP base player are not happy right now and it s a big chunck of your sub base. Do something fast cause your gonna lose a lot of them.

 

Whats the problem with PvP? I think its better than ever.

[GeneoN-]

I hate first person shooters. playing a single map over and over again until you have it memorized and know where the best weapons are, what angle you have to be at to throw the grenade into that window, etc. that is not skill, thats memorization. Thats the same as people that memorize everything before a test and then forget it the next day. you didnt actually learn anything. If I wanted to play a first person shoot game, It wouldnt be star wars.

 

edit: also the part about "you dont have gear or **** tp level up" this is an mmorpg. I think its fair to say a large number of people play mmorpgs because they like to get gear and to level up.

 

You have obviously never watched a professional Counterstrike match in your life.

[chimex]

PvP base player are not happy right now and it s a big chunck of your sub base. Do something fast cause your gonna lose a lot of them.

 

If you're carried by OP'ed gear, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

If the majority of SWTOR's subs are PvPers then I'm George Bush.

 

Hi, Obama

Edited April 18, 2013 by chimex

[SomeJagoff]

Do you have any official document to substantiate your claim? What exactly needs to change that would prevent these (supposedly) majority of the subs to leave?

 

Remove Bolster from 55 Warzone bracket. Introduce MK-3 recruit gear set for fresh 55s that doesn't have a HUGE stat disparity like previous sets. Increase credit rewards from warzones/add another vendor with better rewards for wz comms and ranked comms.

 

That will satisfy the pvp playerbase.

 

In short, PVPers want a gear grind for better stats, remove that gear grind completely (like Bolster has) and you lose players. This is an MMO and MMOs are about grinding gear. If there's no gear grind, players leave.

[spectreclees]

PvP base player are not happy right now and it s a big chunck of your sub base. Do something fast cause your gonna lose a lot of them.

 

Compelling argument for why they will lose subs.

[Eshmael]

11 pages about some nonsense pvp QQ?

I have to be in this thread!

[chaosmadness]

PvP base player are not happy right now and it s a big chunck of your sub base. Do something fast cause your gonna lose a lot of them.

 

Lol...its ur opinion not our opinion..

My vote to this thread is 1 (terrible), ****** arguments.

 

FAIL

Edited April 18, 2013 by chaosmadness

[fleshtaker]

I love this. Every time someone tells me how much effort they took to get their PvP gear I lol.

 

I have to agree i also lol when ppl say ops gear is harder to get i mean what u watch a video walk in and collect loot, well maby u wipe a couple times then collect loot no skill involved all u need to do is follow a video then its free loot time

[Elegances]

I have to agree i also lol when ppl say ops gear is harder to get i mean what u watch a video walk in and collect loot, well maby u wipe a couple times then collect loot no skill involved all u need to do is follow a video then its free loot time

Easy or not, you still need to actually get the boss dead, and therein lies the difference.

[MajikMyst]

Eh, we have had several people complaining about how Bolster ruins PVP over the last few days (ignoring the reported bug) that I feel most have stopped caring to argue.

 

So in your mind.. All bioware has to do is snap their fingers and a bug fix will just materialize out of nowhere?? All they have to do is post it?? Come on now.. Tell me you aren't serious..

 

They are not ignoring your reports, but when it comes to bugs that effect balance, it isn't as easy as you think.. It is going to take time..

 

What I object to is your title.. Hyperbole and grandstanding if you ask me... Like I said.. Troll or looking for attention..

 

In the end, if you feel they are taking to long to fix the bugs.. Feel free to show us your awesome programming skills and write a fix yourself and submit for testing.. Otherwise.. Give them a break will you??

Edited April 18, 2013 by MajikMyst

[lokozar]

There is a very easy solution for all the PvP problems. But since so many PvPers are nothing more than narrow-minded and EA/BW seems to be unable to follow a simple thought right through to the end, it probably will not happen.

 

Get ... rid ... of ... expertise!

 

Really, it's a nonsensical stat. Either you just steamroll players with it or you have to fix the bolster system again and again, because if you're done with balancing current gear (IF ... you're ever done, that's it ...), you have to do it again as soon as future gear arrives.

 

"OH NOOOEEES! NO ITEM PROGRESSION THEN!", I hear you cry. Why not? Just make it so that PvP gear (for PvP commendations) and PvE gear is on par. There you go, knock yourself out with blunt PvP grind, while progressing your gear/character.

 

"OH NOOOEEES! THEN SOME STUPID PVE GUY WILL ROLL THROUGH MY MATCHES AND SMASH ME DOWN WITH NO SKILL AT ALL!", I hear you whimper. Let me tell you something. If some PvE guy shows up and rubs your face in the dirt - you suck! It's as simple as that. PvP always was about comparing abilities of human players. And guess what, that doesn't need one single stat. Don't believe me? Go play chess, football, soccer, ice hockey, Starcraft, Guild Wars - pick a card. It just needs skill. Someone is defeating you? Bad luck or bad skills. Plain vanilla.

 

Expertise is for noobs that are unwilling to learn and griefers. Period.

Edited April 18, 2013 by lokozar

[chimex]

There is a very easy solution for all the PvP problems. But since so many PvPers are nothing more than narrow-minded and EA/BW seems to be unable to follow a simple thought right through to the end, it probably will not happen.

 

Get ... rid ... of ... expertise!

 

Really, it's a nonsensical stat. Either you just steamroll players with it or you have to fix the bolster system again and again, because if you're done with balancing current gear (IF ... you're ever done, that's it ...), you have to do it again as soon as future gear arrives.

 

"OH NOOOEEES! NO ITEM PROGRESSION THEN!", I hear you cry. Why not? Just make it so that PvP gear (for PvP commendations) and PvE gear is on par. There you go, knock yourself out with blunt PvP grind, while progressing your gear/character.

 

"OH NOOOEEES! THEN SOME STUPID PVE GUY WILL ROLL THROUGH MY MATCHES AND SMASH ME DOWN WITH NO SKILL AT ALL!", I hear you whimper. Let me tell you something. If some PvE guy shows up and rubs your face in the dirt - you suck! It's as simple as that. PvP always was about comparing abilities of human players. And guess what, that doesn't need one single stat. Don't believe me? Go play chess, football, soccer, ice hockey, Starcraft, Guild Wars - pick a card. It just needs skill. Someone is defeating you? Bad luck or bad skills. Plain vanilla.

 

Expertise is for noobs that are unwilling to learn and griefers. Period.

 

QF M-F'ing T!

[Elegances]

There is a very easy solution for all the PvP problems. But since so many PvPers are nothing more than narrow-minded and EA/BW seems to be unable to follow a simple thought right through to the end, it probably will not happen.

 

Get ... rid ... of ... expertise!

 

Really, it's a nonsensical stat. Either you just steamroll players with it or you have to fix the bolster system again and again, because if you're done with balancing current gear (IF ... you're ever done, that's it ...), you have to do it again as soon as future gear arrives.

 

"OH NOOOEEES! NO ITEM PROGRESSION THEN!", I hear you cry. Why not? Just make it so that PvP gear (for PvP commendations) and PvE gear is on par. There you go, knock yourself out with blunt PvP grind, while progressing your gear/character.

 

"OH NOOOEEES! THEN SOME STUPID PVE GUY WILL ROLL THROUGH MY MATCHES AND SMASH ME DOWN WITH NO SKILL AT ALL!", I hear you whimper. Let me tell you something. If some PvE guy shows up and rubs your face in the dirt - you suck! It's as simple as that. PvP always was about comparing abilities of human players. And guess what, that doesn't need one single stat. Don't believe me? Go play chess, football, soccer, ice hockey, Starcraft, Guild Wars - pick a card. It just needs skill. Someone is defeating you? Bad luck or bad skills. Plain vanilla.

 

Expertise is for noobs that are unwilling to learn and griefers. Period.

The issue with this is PVE players will be forced to PVP, since its guaranteed returns vs luck of the draw.

[lokozar]

The issue with this is PVE players will be forced to PVP, since its guaranteed returns vs luck of the draw.

 

What? ...

[thesadplanet]

The people in this thread, by and large, have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. The best PvPers (the ones who actually know how to play their class, the ones who use voice comm software, and the players who do ranked and take pvp in this game seriously in general) across all servers generally agree that this bolster system was poorly implemented.

 

Even after tuesday's patch, remnants of bugs which still exist from the PTS exist in the bolster system and cause PvE gear in many situations to be superior to PvP gear, but ONLY if you rip out your enhancements.

 

Right now, if you take the augments out of your gear and put them back in during a warzone, you get a massive stat bonus.

 

The bolster system is a good concept, but was executed horribly, the only people that seem to be defending it are either PvE'ers, or people who are just flat out unaware of the massive problems with it.

[Swuulerian]

Personally I think the PvP (well, Warzones) is in better shape than it was before 2.0. I had WHE gear (which I still mostly use at 55; ok, I admit, I have swapped in some PvE gear). Ok, so bolster is royally pooped up atm (yes, I too remove relics still, and yes I was running WZ's naked last week), but other than that I really do like what BioWare attempted to do here (I have to admit I am quite shocked I actually think BioWare did something remotely right for PvP...). Warzones are now much more equal fights than they were before 2.0.

 

Equal fights are more tense. Tense matches are more fun. Fun is why I play games.

 

Maybe the equal ground in Warzones now is because people still are getting used to the mega low TTK (which needs to be fixed), maybe it is because there still are so few level 55's around so that those who take part in PvP prolly have taken part in PvP before and have a clue (as time will go by there will be more level 55's, which means more clueless people in WZ's). Or maybe it is because those one-button wonders who would fail hard as PvPers otheriwise if it wasn't for their massive Expertise advantage do not have that advantage anymore. The mega-fail PvPers actually have to learn to play now instead of relying on their gear, which of course must suck for them.

[ninjonxb]

This thread is starting to be really funny...

There are some people saying that they should give fresh 55 a free set of gear again. My question... What is the difference between this and bolster?

 

Some people obviously just want to complain and don't ever actually read the responses from bioware about bolster. Most of what people are complaining about in this thread has been talked about by them. Try reading the dev tracker. There are more then a few posts about it.

[Kilora]

The people in this thread, by and large, have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. The best PvPers (the ones who actually know how to play their class, the ones who use voice comm software, and the players who do ranked and take pvp in this game seriously in general) across all servers generally agree that this bolster system was poorly implemented.

 

Even after tuesday's patch, remnants of bugs which still exist from the PTS exist in the bolster system and cause PvE gear in many situations to be superior to PvP gear, but ONLY if you rip out your enhancements.

 

Right now, if you take the augments out of your gear and put them back in during a warzone, you get a massive stat bonus.

 

The bolster system is a good concept, but was executed horribly, the only people that seem to be defending it are either PvE'ers, or people who are just flat out unaware of the massive problems with it.

 

 

Please, point out the MASSIVE problems.

 

On the PTS, there were game-breaking problems. By fixing these, yes, they opened up some edge-cases and more problems made their way live. This was stupid of them.

 

The bolster idea is excellent. They're working hard to fix it -- hence a SECOND patch on Tuesday that is completely based around fixing bolster.

 

They're going to fix the empty slot problem. They fixed the WH/EWH issue (although, that was a sloppy fix because of poor implementation, imo). They will be fixing the problem where PvP gear isn't holding up to PvE gear. Obviously it would've been better if they had caught all of this on the PTS, fixed it, and had time to re-test it on the PTS -- but they didn't. Done and over with, so I'm just glad they're working hard on it now to fix it, and actually admitting the faults.

 

Most level-headed people are pointing out that current concerns relating to Bolster are bug-related. This is going off of what BioWare has said is unintended -- we can't have more information than what they give us. If they claim that it is all fixed, and there are still glaring problems, I'll be the first to light a torch and say "What? This isn't fixed! Arrrrghhh!"

[Levity]

Actually, the reason I flock to PvP is because I find PvE boring, static, un-interesting - a trained monkey can do it. I find it annoying that I have to do monkey work to make credits in the game - cause PvP pays next to nothing. Don't give me the 'repair' argument, as only baddies die doing dailies.

Operations fights never fundamentally change. I raided in Wrath and Cata. Sure, breaking through new content is fun and very, very challenging, but that's only until you've cleared it a couple times. Then it's *yawn*.

 

Not to mention, all the loot drama. Oh and the raid drama from slackers showing up late, going afk, etc. Many of us are more casual gamers who can't lock in for 3-4 hours at a clip. You don't get this in PvP. The baddies in PvP still are bad even in their gear. It's never been difficult for a PvEr to get war hero gear. Full war hero for a casual in 2 weeks or less. EWH gear was negligibly better.

 

I'd throw your arguments right back at you - PvEers think they are better at PvP just because they tank a computer AI run boss, or sit in one place for 10 minutes blasting away a static rotation at a boss. They think this is 'skill'. No. Skill is having every interpersonal battle be slightly different then the one before it. You don't get this in PvE.

 

I'd argue the best rated PvPers would get up to speed in PvE operations twice as fast as the best raiders to rated PvP. It takes way more skill to kill another person then it does an NPC.

 

I do agree the PvP situation is going to cause sub losses, almost everyone in my guild I've spoken to dislikes these changes, to varying degrees from "annoying" to "I'm considering unsubbing".

 

I'm going to say false since: I started out as PvE and then switched and I PvPed all day in WoW and all day here and all day in C9 and all day in a number of other games and then I went back to PvE and guess what? It's easy. It took me no longer to adapt to PvP then it did to PvE. It's always easy as long as you have a good group to roll with and that is the same for PvE as well. There's no difference. The skill for PvP is the same for PvE and thinking one person is better then another because of that is fooling themselves. The trick to doing well is knowing what you are doing and that is the case for either type of game play.

 

Btw PvP is just as static and boring as an OPs can get. I guarantee you can run an OPs and you will have differing trash pulls, CCs will break at parts you didn't expect. Things do change in an OPs everytime you run one, the fights are the same but how you approach it will always be different. Honestly people who say OPs are static seem to never have done ranked WZs where you see what WZ you get then you have your ops leader saying "Ok Novaar Coast, alright you know what you are ASSIGNED for so get on it, you go here, you go here, you go here." The only thing different is how the fight pans out and like I said it can pan out a number of ways in PvE as well.

 

Example: I can go from PvP to PvE and vice verse on the fly and still do great at both, because it's the same thing for each. Take that as you want. People who are just good at one aspect of a game is a one trick horse. I know PvPers who asked to join a raid or ops who did great in their ranked stuff and failed hardcore and had to get booted after a month of trying to learn.

 

I'm going to say this in caps:

 

 

THEEEEEE ONLY PEOPLE WHO THINK PVPERS/PVERS ARE BETTER THEN ONE OR THE OTHER IS BECAUSE THEY EITHER JUST PVP OR PVE AND NEVER ACTUALLY SAMPLE BOTH.

[Ashbo]

I lol at pvers that think fighting the same boss that does the same thing everyday is a real challenge. Getting a group together is the only thing challenging about PvE.

 

This^ lol.

 

Regarding the OP: I find the new bolster system more fair and more skill based, I'm completely content with it and I'm a frequent PVPer.

[Levity]

This^ lol.

 

Regarding the OP: I find the new bolster system more fair and more skill based, I'm completely content with it and I'm a frequent PVPer.

 

I implore you to go to page 12 and read my response to people like you two. IE: People who think one set of the player base is better then the other.

[astrobearx]

I implore you to go to page 12 and read my response to people like you two. IE: People who think one set of the player base is better then the other.

 

i agreed with your message

[Andryah]

I implore you to go to page 12 and read my response to people like you two. IE: People who think one set of the player base is better then the other.

 

Yep yep.

 

Levity's post on page 12 should be required reading before playing the "who is better" nonsense in the thread. In fact.. there should be a quiz after you read it and if you can't pass the quiz... you have to go back and READ IT AGAIN until you get it.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Andryah

[Briljin]

PvE is different in that you cannot walk into an Ops by yourself die all night long and come out with gear.

 

No, you just do your weekly quests or buy gear from raiding guilds. Lets not pretend that raiding is a some heroic achievement, not when you can goggle complete step by step guides to the fights...

 

Bolster is an ok system, it is just chuck full of bugs at the moment. Once they address those issues, PvP will settle down and top end PvP gear will still be superior in PvP to top end PvE gear (as it should be).