Beniboybling Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Too be fair, Vitiate's page does make him out to be pretty bada'ss lolIf you have the time I encourage you to read this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Sources cite Anakin as the most powerful jedi, too. Is he? No. Revan would floor him in seconds. The point is that these sources may have come before or after new characters. Also, there is such a thing as 'Dramatic Irony', which you will see in some books but not in others. For example, one book references Darth Maul (from Obi-Wan's perspective) as the 'Zabrak Sith'. This makes sense. Why? Because none of the Jedi ever actually knew his name. However, plenty of sources name this character (from the reference point of one Jedi or another) as being 'Darth Maul'. Is he Darth Maul? Yes, but the fact is that these characters could not actually know it. You're taking the commentary of the book and assuming it's fact, simply because it's in the book. To link these two ideas together, here's how I see it: You're looking at, say, the quote from Yoda to Dooku in Episode 2 ("Fought well, you have, my old padawan") and regarding 'padawan' as meaning that Yoda was Dooku's master (as in, the master/padawan relationship) when in reality Dooku's direct master was Thame Cerulian. Edited March 13, 2014 by idnewton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Sources cite Anakin as the most powerful jedi, too. Is he? No. Revan would floor him in seconds. The point is that these sources may have come before or after new characters. Also, there is such a thing as 'Dramatic Irony', which you will see in some books but not in others. For example, one book references Darth Maul (from Obi-Wan's perspective) as the 'Zabrak Sith'. This makes sense. Why? Because none of the Jedi ever actually knew his name. However, plenty of sources name this character (from the reference point of one Jedi or another) as being 'Darth Maul'. Is he Darth Maul? Yes, but the fact is that these characters could not actually know it. You're taking the commentary of the book and assuming it's fact, simply because it's in the book. To link these two ideas together, here's how I see it: You're looking at, say, the quote from Yoda to Dooku in Episode 2 ("Fought well, you have, my old padawan") and regarding 'padawan' as meaning that Yoda was Dooku's master (as in, the master/padawan relationship) when in reality Dooku's direct master was Thame Cerulian. I stopped reading at the unnecessary mention of Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I stopped reading at the unnecessary mention of Revan. You ceased to be worth my time when you ignored facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 You ceased to be worth my time when you ignored facts. by facts you mean opinions that you are passing off as facts. Anakin had the greatest connection to the force of any jedi and thus had the greatest potential of any jedi, that is a fact, thus the statement that he is the most powerful Jedi is fact.... from a certain point of view. As well as more then likely could defeat Revan as I believe he was more skilled in saber combat and possibly more powerful in the force then Revan, he certainly was by the time he was Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 You ceased to be worth my time when you ignored facts. And nothing of value was lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 You only choose to acknowledge what validates your points. Try this, the other 90% of what I said: The point is that these sources may have come before or after new characters. Also, there is such a thing as 'Dramatic Irony', which you will see in some books but not in others. For example, one book references Darth Maul (from Obi-Wan's perspective) as the 'Zabrak Sith'. This makes sense. Why? Because none of the Jedi ever actually knew his name. However, plenty of sources name this character (from the reference point of one Jedi or another) as being 'Darth Maul'. Is he Darth Maul? Yes, but the fact is that these characters could not actually know it. You're taking the commentary of the book and assuming it's fact, simply because it's in the book. To link these two ideas together, here's how I see it: You're looking at, say, the quote from Yoda to Dooku in Episode 2 ("Fought well, you have, my old padawan") and regarding 'padawan' as meaning that Yoda was Dooku's master (as in, the master/padawan relationship) when in reality Dooku's direct master was Thame Cerulian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Just pointing out the glaringly obvious here, Anakin had the potential to be 200% as powerful as the Emperor, as Vader he only achieved 80% of Sidious' power, Luke Skywalker is the most powerful of all time as he fulfilled his Father's potential instead. Edited March 13, 2014 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Just pointing out the glaringly obvious here, Anakin had the potential to be 200% as powerful as the Emperor, as Vader he only achieved 80% of Sidious' power, Luke Skywalker is the most powerful of all time as he fulfilled his Father's potential instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) by facts you mean opinions that you are passing off as facts. Anakin had the greatest connection to the force of any jedi and thus had the greatest potential of any jedi, that is a fact, thus the statement that he is the most powerful Jedi is fact.... from a certain point of view. As well as more then likely could defeat Revan as I believe he was more skilled in saber combat and possibly more powerful in the force then Revan, he certainly was by the time he was Vader. Stop with this gosh darn ''*!!!! POTENTIAL !!!!!11ONEONE*'' already lol. Who gives it a **** what he might become in a perfect world.Point of the matter is that he was what he was.When some special baby is born i wouldn't call it the greatest politician in Europe,because of it's potential.Until he actually becomes one, i will still call him degenerate that overdosed with heroin while he was 21. (inb4 80% of Sidious garbage) Edited March 13, 2014 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) by facts you mean opinions that you are passing off as facts. Anakin had the greatest connection to the force of any jedi and thus had the greatest potential of any jedi, that is a fact, thus the statement that he is the most powerful Jedi is fact.... from a certain point of view. As well as more then likely could defeat Revan as I believe he was more skilled in saber combat and possibly more powerful in the force then Revan, he certainly was by the time he was Vader. Anakin would defeat Revan too yes. Anakin/Vader, whichever are both ahead of Revan as far as combat goes. But more importantly, this thread really should stop coming back up...you can't debate against the evidence that clearly shows Sidious > Vitiate. Edited March 13, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Sources cite Anakin as the most powerful jedi, too. Is he? No. Revan would floor him in seconds. The point is that these sources may have come before or after new characters. Also, there is such a thing as 'Dramatic Irony', which you will see in some books but not in others. For example, one book references Darth Maul (from Obi-Wan's perspective) as the 'Zabrak Sith'. This makes sense. Why? Because none of the Jedi ever actually knew his name. However, plenty of sources name this character (from the reference point of one Jedi or another) as being 'Darth Maul'. Is he Darth Maul? Yes, but the fact is that these characters could not actually know it. You're taking the commentary of the book and assuming it's fact, simply because it's in the book. To link these two ideas together, here's how I see it: You're looking at, say, the quote from Yoda to Dooku in Episode 2 ("Fought well, you have, my old padawan") and regarding 'padawan' as meaning that Yoda was Dooku's master (as in, the master/padawan relationship) when in reality Dooku's direct master was Thame Cerulian.Sources, I believe, state that Anakin Skywalker is one of the most powerful Jedi in the current Order. Let's just be clear on that one. As to how he would fare against Revan, I think you'll find few will agree with the sentiment that Revan can 'floor' the Chosen One. Which I must admit is a rather LOLworthy comment in need of a great deal of evidence. Though I assume (hope) this is just you using hyperbole, you wouldn't be the first. In regards to 'dramatic irony', it is irrelevant, most of these sources are from an objective, omniscient perspectives. Such as The New Essential Chronology, The Complete Visual Dictionary and the Dark Empire Sourcebook. They are not written from the perspective of fallible characters, and because they are in sourcebooks they are canon. Please review your argument in light of this, because it is currently not relevant I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Stop with this gosh darn ''*!!!! POTENTIAL !!!!!11ONEONE*'' already lol. Who gives it a **** what he might become in a perfect world.Point of the matter is that while he was without suit,he sucked.With suit he sucked a little less in some areas. (inb4 80% of Sidious garbage) He didn't suck as I have already stated, he likely could beat Revan as Anakin, he was one of the orders best duelists and most powerful jedi. It is a fact (potential or no) that he possessed a greater connection to the force of any Jedi before and the only ones to match his connection to the force were his own Son and Daughter. By having that connection a source is perfectly correct to call him the most powerful Jedi, based solely on connection to the Force rather then skill or knowledge. Edited March 13, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Stop with this gosh darn ''*!!!! POTENTIAL !!!!!11ONEONE*'' already lol. Who gives it a **** what he might become in a perfect world.Point of the matter is that while he was what he was. (inb4 80% of Sidious garbage) Anakin Skywalker was confirmed in the Revenge of the Sith novel (multiple times) to be one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order (and in history). As Vader, he has been stated to be one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever. Sucks? Nope. Not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Stop with this gosh darn ''*!!!! POTENTIAL !!!!!11ONEONE*'' already lol. Who gives it a **** what he might become in a perfect world.Point of the matter is that while he was what he was. (inb4 80% of Sidious garbage)Calm yourself. No one is interested in a flame war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Gorlock- Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I applaud the work you went through to make this very nice thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Calm yourself. No one is interested in a flame war. *drops flamethrower* Darn it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Anakin Skywalker was confirmed in the Revenge of the Sith novel (multiple times) to be one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order (and in history). As Vader, he has been stated to be one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever. Sucks? Nope. Not at all. I actually edited my post.Seriously you people respond too fast. Edited March 13, 2014 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I actually edited my post.Seriously you people respond too fast. Well, it doesn't change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Well, it doesn't change anything. It does.Anakin was this and that... w/e.One of the greatest sith and jedi bla-bla.But his ''potential'' is seriously taken into consideration too much.What matters is how powerful he actually became in *reality*. Edited March 13, 2014 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 It does.Anakin was this and that... w/e.One of the greatest sith and jedi bla-bla.But his ''potential'' is seriously taken into consideration too much. We shouldn't really use "potential" as much as we should say Connection to the Force. He lacked knowledge and discipline but he still had that connection far outweighing any jedi or sith. One's potential is measured by the strength of their connection to the force. So while WE may not call him the most powerful jedi based on his lack of knowledge on how to full utilize that connection a Source is perfectly allowed to use that Connection as measurement of calling him most powerful Jedi as, from a certain point of view, it is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 It does.Anakin was this and that... w/e.One of the greatest sith and jedi bla-bla.But his ''potential'' is seriously taken into consideration too much.What matters is how powerful he actually became in *reality*.And the reality is he became one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order. That's what happens when your born the Chosen One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaytdasme Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Clearly Vitiate is more powerful... If bioware Upgrade's his power and brings him back in an epic expansion. :-P I hate bringing Game characters into comparison. They don't always exactly translate in consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Clearly Vitiate is more powerful... If bioware Upgrade's his power and brings him back in an epic expansion. :-P I hate bringing Game characters into comparison. They don't always exactly translate in consistency.Lol. You had me for a moment. Edited March 13, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) And the reality is he became one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order. Yes but when he is being compared to others, i have seen people using his ''potential'' as an argument too often. Edited March 13, 2014 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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