Stop comparing Vitiate to Palpatine...

[Aurbere]

Star Wars is much bigger then just G-canon content/information now. Why cant people respect all of the canon and get over it?

 

G-canon is the highest level of canon and cannot be contradicted. In G-canon, Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord. Thus, no Sith can be more powerful than Sidious. Be it G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, or S-canon.

 

This is just pointless bickering now. You can't accept G-canon. On the other hand, I accept all levels of canon, so long as there are no contradictions with G-canon.

 

So unless you can point me to the quote that says that G-canon is non-existent, you need to accept that fact that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord.

[S_W_LeGenD]

If Vitiate was evidently more powerful than Sidious you might have a small point, but he isn't.

 

Come back to me when you have proof that Vitiate mastered the Force storm.

Their is much more to dark side practices then just Force Storm. In contrast, Vitiate could harness dark side power on much bigger scale.

 

Small point? Maybe you love to ignore Vitiate's power reach.

 

And just because there is more to Star Wars than GL creations doesn't mean we should disregard them. Those creations are the foundations on which everything has stemmed from, and should be respected as such. Likewise Sidious' standing in the Star Wars universe should be respected, such things don't just 'change'.

GL creations are foundations; not the entire building. Star Wars is written by different authors; all of whom have different opinions about it. This is why this subject is never black and white.

 

We should respect canon in all of its entirety and not just parts of it.

Edited July 13, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Aurbere]

GL creations are foundations; not the entire building. Star Wars is written by different authors; all of whom have different opinions about it. This is why this subject is never black and white.

 

We should respect canon in all of its entirety and not just parts of it.

 

G-canon is the absolute law for all Star Wars works to follow.

[S_W_LeGenD]

G-canon is the highest level of canon and cannot be contradicted. In G-canon, Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord. Thus, no Sith can be more powerful than Sidious. Be it G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, or S-canon.

G-canon may no longer be the highest form of canon for Disney Administration; it might change canonical validity. Stop living in the past.

 

It is not clear what type of canon would be Episode 7 and later movies; these movies represent EU by the way. As per GL, G-canon represents his personal works only.

 

Vitiate have "most powerful" accolades in all possible aspects:-

 

1. Sith Lord

2. Force-user

3. Dark Side Master

 

You need to revisit canonical information about Vitiate properly.

 

This is just pointless bickering now. You can't accept G-canon. On the other hand, I accept all levels of canon, so long as there are no contradictions with G-canon.

 

So unless you can point me to the quote that says that G-canon is non-existent, you need to accept that fact that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord.

I do not live in the past. I respect canon in its entirety and understand that it is ever-evolving and the complications associated with continuously expanding lore.

 

G-canon is the absolute law for all Star Wars works to follow.

I do not subscribe to this theory any longer after Disney took over. I advice you to move on from the past as well.

 

You guys sound more like spokesmen of GL then fans. In-fact, you guys impersonate GL more then he does.

Edited July 13, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Aurbere]

G-canon may no longer be the highest form of canon for Disney Administration; it might change canonical validity. Stop living in the past.

 

Your speech is filled with "maybe" and "perhaps," Chodo Habat.

 

Simply put, you operate under the assumption that G-canon no longer exists now that Disney has taken over. So again I ask, where is your proof?

 

I operate under the assumption that G-canon remains intact until officially retconned.

 

Vitiate have "most powerful" accolades in all possible aspects:-

 

1. Sith Lord

2. Force-user

3. Dark Side Master

 

In direct contradiction with G-canon.

 

You need to revisit canonical information about Vitiate properly.

 

I know all about it. You seem to think that if someone knows all about Vitiate that they will automatically think that he's the strongest and he doesn't afraid of anything.

 

I do not live in the past. I respect canon in its entirety and understand that it is ever-evolving and the complications associated with continuously expanding lore.

 

Same here, except I acknowledge G-canon as the highest level of canon in Star Wars. This is like disregarding the Constitution of the United States simply because it's in the past.

 

I do not subscribe to this theory any longer after Disney took over. I advice you to move on from the past as well.

 

See first response/

 

You guys sound more like spokesmen of GL then fans. In-fact, you guys impersonate GL more then even he does.

 

Doesn't get annoying to hear the same thing over and over again?

 

I do not subscribe to this theory any longer after Disney took over. I advice you to move on from the past as well.

 

I do not live in the past.

 

Stop living in the past.

 

Staying in the past will do you no good.

 

Just roll with the latest developments

 

I mean, it's not like you repeat the same thing over and over again.

[Beniboybling]

Their is much more to dark side practices then just Force Storm. In contrast, Vitiate could harness dark side power on much bigger scale.

 

Small point? Maybe you love to ignore Vitiate's power reach.

Because rendering the very fabric of space to dispatch multiple immense manifestations of pure dark side energy across the galaxy is not 'big' at all. You often seem to point to the Sith Emperor's 'grand vision' as proof of his power. But Sidious' vision was equally immense, the difference being he almost achieved it. Taken from the Book of Anger:

 

It must be understood that anger can be funneled through the body and released near the heart at the "vital gate." The destruction that can be unleashed can be immense. Thousands of enemies can be annihilated in a single act of malice.

 

In time, the channeled anger of the dark side will prove just as destructive as the Death Star. There will no longer be a need for costly constructions. Already, I have perfected the Force maelstrom...

 

...This technique can be increased into a Force Storm. The churning energy mass of a Force Storm can consume everything it touches, for at its eye is pure hate. Just as a black hole devours a star, this storm can swallow armies and fold space. It may take decades to master this art, but once I have perfected it, I will be invincible.

 

You seem to be failing to grasp the full implications of the Force Storm. It should not simply be treated as just another technique in the dark side, but the highest manifestation of dark side energy that in order to wield requires unprecedented power and the will necessary to direct it. If the Sith Emperor possessed such power, he would able to create manifestations of dark side energy on such a magnitude, achieving is grand vision would have been a doddle.

 

And before you point the Sith Emperor being impossible to kill and beyond his body etc. Sidious achieved this as well, in place of 'Voices' he produced clones and after his essence was sundered from his body he dragged himself from the depths of Chaos and managed to possess one of his disciples.

 

And even after experiencing a third death Sidious was not defeated, he was only completely destroyed when his essence was trapped in the body of a dying Jedi who dragged him back into the Netherworld.

 

He was immortal, and wielded immense power on a colossal scale. Capable of unleashing the power of the dark side on a magnitude that the Sith Emperor was simply incapable of - which is painfully evident from the failure of his vision.

[Beniboybling]

Stop living in the past.

Stop living in the future.

[Beniboybling]

Vitiate have "most powerful" accolades in all possible aspects:-

 

1. Sith Lord

2. Force-user

3. Dark Side Master

 

You need to revisit canonical information about Vitiate properly.

You do realise that this does not contradict current statements concerning Sidious yes? And that both statements can exist symbiotically, yes?

[S_W_LeGenD]

Your speech is filled with "maybe" and "perhaps," Chodo Habat.

 

Simply put, you operate under the assumption that G-canon no longer exists now that Disney has taken over. So again I ask, where is your proof?

 

I operate under the assumption that G-canon remains intact until officially retconned.

Where have I claimed that G-canon doesn't exists after Disney took over? All of the works of GL may still be classified as G-canon under Disney Administration. My argument is about respecting entire canon content and not stick to silly rankings introduced by GL during his tenure as the BOSS. GL enforced such rankings to ensure that his works may not be overruled by other authors in their works; however, EU doesn't interferes with his works (regardless) and more importantly, it is not restricted in "creative liberties" aspect in comparison to G-canon.

 

You do realize that many authors represent Star Wars now or only GL does?

 

In direct contradiction with G-canon.

No.

 

Sidious is a Sith lord, as per G-canon. However, he changed in EU during Dark Empire era (I am not sure if he thought beyond Sith philosophy during this era). This depiction may or may not be retconned in the future content.

 

In contrast, Vitiate is definitely more then a Sith Lord; he is a "dark side master" to be precise.

 

I know all about it. You seem to think that if someone knows all about Vitiate that they will automatically think that he's the strongest and he doesn't afraid of anything.

You should understand that Jedi and Sith are just philosophies. Sidious can be logically the most powerful follower of Sith philosophy in history. Vitiate, in contrast, isn't a follower of Sith philosophy; he just explored dark side on his own and thought beyond these philosophies.

 

Same here, except I acknowledge G-canon as the highest level of canon in Star Wars. This is like disregarding the Constitution of the United States simply because it's in the past.

Constitutions can be changed/amended.

 

Here is proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

 

See first response/

See above. Try to broaden your mindset.

 

Doesn't get annoying to hear the same thing over and over again?

I can say the same about your statements.

 

I mean, it's not like you repeat the same thing over and over again.

I have given explanation for all of my assertions; I have attempted to make sense of all of the canonical representations. Unfortunately, some of you are stuck in the past.

 

Stop living in the future.

I am living in present actually.

 

You do realise that this does not contradict current statements concerning Sidious yes? And that both statements can exist symbiotically, yes?

Here is a reasonable explanation:

 

"You should understand that Jedi and Sith are just philosophies. Sidious can be logically the most powerful follower of Sith philosophy in history. Vitiate, in contrast, isn't a follower of Sith philosophy; he just explored dark side on his own and thought beyond these philosophies."

 

It is better to attempt to put canonical information in objective context rather then argue like children on the topics of "most powerful."

Edited July 14, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Aurbere]

Where have I claimed that G-canon doesn't exists after Disney took over? All of the works of GL may still be classified as G-canon under Disney Administration. My argument is about respecting entire canon content and not stick to silly rankings introduced by GL during his tenure as the BOSS. GL enforced such rankings to ensure that his works may not be overruled by other authors in their works; however, EU doesn't interferes with his works (regardless) and more importantly, it is not restricted in "creative liberties" aspect in comparison to G-canon.

 

Well, you don't seem to get the fact that, per G-canon, Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord. So you ignore (or discredit) one aspect of G-canon?

 

You do realize that many authors represent Star Wars now or only GL does?

 

I only recognize the words of George Lucas and Leland Chee, to be honest. They have a better knowledge of the universe than I do, that's for sure.

 

No.

 

Sidious is a Sith lord, as per G-canon. However, he changed in EU during Dark Empire era (I am not sure if he thought beyond Sith philosophy during this era). This depiction may or may not be retconned in the future content.

 

In contrast, Vitiate is definitely more then a Sith Lord; he is a "dark side master" to be precise.

 

Sidious is noted as a Dark Side Master as well.

 

You should understand that Jedi and Sith are just philosophies. Sidious can be logically the most powerful follower of Sith philosophy in history. Vitiate, in contrast, isn't a follower of Sith philosophy; he just explored dark side on his own and thought beyond these philosophies.

 

Um. Okay? You understand that you discredit the source that states Vitiate as a Sith Lord?

 

Constitutions can be changed/amended.

 

Here is proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

 

Yes, I know. American right here. What I'm saying is that you are attmepting to ignore the law in its entirety.

 

See above. Try to broaden your mindset.

 

I like my mindset the way it is. Narrow your mindset, maybe? Sometimes that can help in seeing the truth. It's one of the many lessons of Qui-Gon Jinn.

 

I can say the same about your statements.

 

Yes, I know. But don't pretend that your arguments are not redundant.

 

I have given explanation for all of my assertions; I have attempted to make sense of all of the canonical representations. Unfortunately, some of you are stuck in the past.

 

Dangnabit you said it again.

 

I am living in present actually.

 

I think we all live in the present.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Well, you don't seem to get the fact that, per G-canon, Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord. So you ignore (or discredit) one aspect of G-canon?

Regard it as "follower of Sith philosophy". Problem solved.

 

Also, no where GL himself or any G-canon source itself have declared Sidious as most powerful Sith Lord in "history." These claims have been made in EU sources.

 

GL pointed out that Sidious is the most powerful man/Sith Lord in his universe/depiction.

 

I don't understand that why you guys keep misrepresenting revelations.

 

I only recognize the words of George Lucas and Leland Chee, to be honest. They have a better knowledge of the universe than I do, that's for sure.

Pablo is also a senior figure. He didn't declare Sidious as most powerful Sith Lord or dark side master in his (real world perspective) source representing Star Wars history in its entirety: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Readers-Companion-Star-Wars/dp/0345511190

 

And Star Wars administration is currently bigger then these two guys; GL and Leeland.

 

Sidious is noted as a Dark Side Master as well.

Sith Lords are practitioners of the dark side.

 

Um. Okay? You understand that you discredit the source that states Vitiate as a Sith Lord?

No! TOR era sources make it abundantly clear that Vitiate is more then a Sith Lord.

 

Yes, I know. American right here. What I'm saying is that you are attmepting to ignore the law in its entirety.

No, I just pointed out that laws are not infallible.

 

I like my mindset the way it is. Narrow your mindset, maybe? Sometimes that can help in seeing the truth. It's one of the many lessons of Qui-Gon Jinn.

You think what you believe is true.

 

Yes, I know. But don't pretend that your arguments are not redundant.

They are not redundant. Only fans of G-canon works have issues with my arguments.

 

Dangnabit you said it again.

Until or unless, you broaden your perception; you will keep hearing it. As I pointed out before, old habits die hard.

 

I think we all live in the present.

Some do not when it comes to Star Wars.

Edited July 14, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Beniboybling]

Here is a reasonable explanation:

 

"You should understand that Jedi and Sith are just philosophies. Sidious can be logically the most powerful follower of Sith philosophy in history. Vitiate, in contrast, isn't a follower of Sith philosophy; he just explored dark side on his own and thought beyond these philosophies."

 

It is better to attempt to put canonical information in objective context rather then argue like children on the topics of "most powerful."

Sorry but what? What relevance does this have to the debate at hand? Who are you quoting here, yourself? I suppose you over looked the fact that Sidious has received the title 'the greatest master of evil ever to master the Sith power' and by 'evil' and 'Sith power' they can only mean the dark side of the Force.

 

And if you want to put this into objective context your going to have take into account that 1. the context in which these statements are written is before Darth Sidious' emergence of the galactic stage and therefore no matter what it says has no impact on any accolades attributed to Sidious and 2. Darth Sidious caused dark side energies to manifest on a scale far greater than anything Vitiate has achieved.

 

Simply put your argument is groundless on every level, you have no canonical basis and no in-universe evidence to support your claims. What your arguing isn't even theoretical, it's just wrong. 'Try to understand this.'

[S_W_LeGenD]

Sorry but what? What relevance does this have to the debate at hand? Who are you quoting here, yourself? I suppose you over looked the fact that Sidious has received the title 'the greatest master of evil ever to master the Sith power' and by 'evil' and 'Sith power' they can only mean the dark side of the Force.

I have a problem with how you perceive Vitiate and why you only have a problem with him being possibly more powerful dark side practitioner then Sidious. Their are other (ancient) dark side practitioners in the mythos who fit in this category but you have no problem with them; may I know why?

 

The statement that you are highlighting contains the word "Sith" in it. Of-course, Sith have dark side alignment. However, dark side practitioners are not necessarily Sith; this is the difference that you need to realize for all of the characters and not just Celestials.

 

Read the spoilers below again and again until you get the memo:-

 

 

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. (SWTOR: Codex Entry)

 

 

 

Lord Scourge's reveals the Emperor's true goal for the war: to complete a Sith ritual that will grant him unlimited power and immortality by eradicating all life in the galaxy. (SWTORE, Page 93)

 

 

---

 

And if you want to put this into objective context your going to have take into account that 1. the context in which these statements are written is before Darth Sidious' emergence of the galactic stage and therefore no matter what it says has no impact on any accolades attributed to Sidious and 2. Darth Sidious caused dark side energies to manifest on a scale far greater than anything Vitiate has achieved.

1. They contain the word "ever" in it, leaving room for creative liberties. Why you keep forgetting this?

 

2. Your claim is baseless! Vitiate produced the largest dark side nexus the whole Galaxy "would ever see" and he controlled/harnessed all of that power to transform himself and enhance his capacity as a Force-user (unparalleled feat in the whole mythos). In his ultimate plan, he would have harnessed dark side power on galactic scale; you realize how big Star Wars Galaxy is? I know its canonical size.

 

Simply put your argument is groundless on every level, you have no canonical basis and no in-universe evidence to support your claims. What your arguing isn't even theoretical, it's just wrong. 'Try to understand this.'

I find this boast/claim ironic when all of my arguments are based upon canonical revelations.

Edited July 14, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Aurbere]

Regard it as "follower of Sith philosophy". Problem solved.

 

Also, no where GL himself or any G-canon source itself have declared Sidious as most powerful Sith Lord in "history." These claims have been made in EU sources.

 

GL pointed out that Sidious is the most powerful man/Sith Lord in his universe/depiction.

 

I don't understand that why you guys keep misrepresenting revelations.

 

I believe GL said that Sidious was the most powerful Sith. Seems like an absolute to me.

 

"Only George Lucas deals in absolutes."

 

Pablo is also a senior figure. He didn't declare Sidious as most powerful Sith Lord or dark side master in his (real world perspective) source representing Star Wars history in its entirety: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Readers-Companion-Star-Wars/dp/0345511190

 

Guess that means that Vitiate isn't super special awesome then.

 

And Star Wars administration is currently bigger then these two guys; GL and Leeland.

 

This is already known to me. I just trust those two the most.

 

Sith Lords are practitioners of the dark side.

 

Thanks Peter Cushing. I did not know that.

 

No! TOR era sources make it abundantly clear that Vitiate is more then a Sith Lord.

 

Didn't one of your sources say that he's the most powerful Sith Lord ever? I think so.

 

No, I just pointed out that laws are not infallible.

 

OK, then.

 

You think what you believe is true.

 

Such an argument can be turned against you if I deemed it necessary to do so, but, let's face it, such a revelation is unnecessary.

 

They are not redundant. Only fans of G-canon works have issues with my arguments.

 

^Someone's not a fan of the movies.

 

Just an FYI, my favorite Star Wars work is Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, tied with the Thrawn Trilogy.

 

Another FYI, constantly saying that people should stop living in the past gets a bit redundant. You have said it nearly a dozen times in the past few hours.

 

Until or unless, you broaden your perception; you will keep hearing it. As I pointed out before, old habits die hard.

 

No. I prefer my perception.

 

Some do not when it comes to Star Wars.

 

I'll move on when the Holocron Keeper tells me to.

[Aurbere]

'Try to understand this.'

 

Yeah, that's gonna happen.

[S_W_LeGenD]

I believe GL said that Sidious was the most powerful Sith. Seems like an absolute to me.

 

"Only George Lucas deals in absolutes."

You believe? In what context? Did he explicitly mentioned that his claim is for EU content as well?

 

Guess that means that Vitiate isn't super special awesome then.

Same applies to Sidious as well. The author didn't hype any character in this book.

 

This is already known to me. I just trust those two the most.

Well, bad for you. Interestingly, Daniel Wallace favors Sidious more then even these two; their isn't a book from this author in which Sidious is not hyped.

 

Also, never underestimate your own reasoning ability.

 

Thanks Peter Cushing. I did not know that.

Don't make such points then; instead focus on the entire point of mine. Dark side practitioners are not necessarily Sith Lords or followers of Sith philosophy.

 

Didn't one of your sources say that he's the most powerful Sith Lord ever? I think so.

He have this accolade too, just in case.

 

OK, then.

Finally...their is light at the end of the tunnel after all.

 

Such an argument can be turned against you if I deemed it necessary to do so, but, let's face it, such a revelation is unnecessary.

I understand this but I am debating with as much objectivity as possible for me to exercise.

 

^Someone's not a fan of the movies.

 

Just an FYI, my favorite Star Wars work is Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, tied with the Thrawn Trilogy.

 

Another FYI, constantly saying that people should stop living in the past gets a bit redundant. You have said it nearly a dozen times in the past few hours.

Ok! I apologize if my repeated statements offended you.

 

However, it isn't refreshing or exciting for me either to repeat statements again and again to give others significant impetus to revisit their POV. It is better to follow the argument in the early stages or seek clarification.

 

No. I prefer my perception.

You are entitled to your perception but then why participate in debates with rigid mentality?

 

I'll move on when the Holocron Keeper tells me to.

Good luck with that now specially after Disney took over.

Edited July 14, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Aurbere]

You believe? In what context? Did he explicitly mentioned that his claim is for EU content as well?

 

Don't know, but what George says goes, so you know.

 

Same applies to Sidious as well. The author didn't hype any character in this book.

 

Yes, you've pointed that out several times.

 

Well, bad for you. Interestingly, Daniel Wallace favors Sidious more then even these two; their isn't a book from this author in which Sidious is not hyped.

 

What do I care? It's not like Sidious is my favorite character.

 

Don't make such points then; instead focus on the entire point of mine. Dark Side Practitioners are not necessarily Sith Lords or followers of Sith philosophy.

 

This is already known to me.

 

He have this accolade too, just in case.

 

So does Sidious. And in the highest form of canon to boot.

 

Finally...their is light at the end of the tunnel after all.

 

I doubt it. Remember Rainbow Road from Mario Kart? It's happy track is nothing more than a pathway to oblivion.

 

I understand this but I am debating with as much objectivity as possible for me to exercise.

 

Me too. Though, I'm not really trying to debate here. Just making conversation.

 

Ok! I apologize if my repeated statements offended you.

 

No offense made. Just pointing out that you were repetetive.

 

You are entitled to your perception but then why participate in debates with rigid mentality?

 

Sidious and Luke can't be debated. I'm perfectly fine with all of the other characters.

 

Good luck with that now specially after Disney took over.

 

I don't think they'd can Leland Chee.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Don't know, but what George says goes, so you know.

Yes, but he doesn't takes interest in EU content and neither he prevents "creative liberties" in EU content. He isn't a control freak; rather a decent man. At maximum, he makes sure that EU doesn't interferes with his works.

 

Also, unless you have the actual statement and you know about its actual context, highlighting G-canon again and again to support your POV will do you know good. Regardless, even if Sith Lord (label) goes in favor of Sidious; this doesn't refutes the possibility of Vitiate being relatively more powerful dark side practitioner then him; this is just like arguing against Celestials and/or other extremely powerful dark side entities/beings who might be a match for Sidious or possibly stronger.

 

Yes, you've pointed that out several times.

Then stop hyping Sidious unnecessarily?

 

What do I care? It's not like Sidious is my favorite character.

Well, I do like him. Unfortunately, some fans unnecessarily promote him and this forces me to call spade a spade.

 

So does Sidious. And in the highest form of canon to boot.

Not this again please; I do not like to remind you (your) mistake again and again.

 

I doubt it. Remember Rainbow Road from Mario Kart? It's happy track is nothing more than a pathway to oblivion.

No comments.

 

Me too. Though, I'm not really trying to debate here. Just making conversation.

Ok! But it should be productive.

 

No offense made. Just pointing out that you were repetetive.

Fair enough.

 

Sidious and Luke can't be debated. I'm perfectly fine with all of the other characters.

They can be debated and easily.

 

Luke is arguably the most powerful Jedi but Revan and Yoda have similar hype. Now you will bring G-canon argument in to this but I will remind you that EU content reveals that Luke is heavily outclassed by several dark side practitioners. But this debate with degenerate in to GL being the authority and such which will lead me to remind you that Disney is the ultimate authority now and that to respect canon in its entirety. See the repetition?

 

I don't think they'd can Leland Chee.

What?

Edited July 14, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Aurbere]

Yes, but he doesn't takes interest in EU content and neither he prevents "creative liberties" in EU content. He isn't a control freak; rather a decent man. At maximum, he makes sure that EU doesn't interferes with his works.

 

Also, unless you have the actual statement and you know about its actual context, highlighting G-canon again and again to support your POV will do you know good. Regardless, even if Sith Lord (label) goes in favor of Sidious; this doesn't refutes the possibility of Vitiate being relatively more powerful dark side practitioner then him; this is just like arguing against Celestials and/or other extremely powerful dark side entities/beings who might be a match for Sidious or possibly stronger.

 

Well I tried feats (the original post tried feats too) and that didn't seem to work...

 

Then stop hyping Sidious unnecessarily?

 

I'm not. Though this can be said for your Vitiate argument.

 

Well, I do like him. Unfortunately, some fans unnecessarily promote him and this forces me to call spade a spade.

 

Palpatine was good, but Dark Empire kinda ruined his character. ROTJ was his best performance by far.

 

Not this again please; I do not like to remind you (your) mistake again and again.

 

Would you like me to resort to feats? Because I've done it before, and it didn't work.

 

No comments.

 

Of course. Rainbow Road is a difficult subject.

 

Ok! But it should be productive.

 

This is a side debate for me, but OK then. What would you call for productive?

 

They can be debated and easily.

 

Luke is arguably the most powerful Jedi but Revan and Yoda have similar hype. Now you will bring G-canon argument in to this but I will remind you that EU content reveals that Luke is heavily outclassed by several dark side practitioners. But this debate with degenerate in to GL being the authority and such which will lead me to remind you that Disney is the ultimate authority now and that to respect canon in its entirety. See the repetition?

 

We've been over this before, haven't we?

 

I think the whole 'potential of the Chosen One' thing kinda puts that to rest.

 

What?

 

Merely pointing out that I believe that they'll keep Chee on hand as Keeper of the Holocron. So I'll let him tell me when to disregard any sort of canon. Sound good?

[S_W_LeGenD]

Well I tried feats (the original post tried feats too) and that didn't seem to work...

You know me! I can argue in favor of Vitiate much better then anybody in this forum yet.

 

Even if we reduce this debate to feat wars, Vitiate have Sidious beat in several aspects.

 

I'm not. Though this can be said for your Vitiate argument.

You are tossing my statements back at me; this isn't a positive way to make your point. Their is history of fans of PT and future era content of the mythos to underestimate/misrepresent ancient/TOR era elites in this forum. In contrast, my arguments are more then justified for calling spade a spade.

 

Palpatine was good, but Dark Empire kinda ruined his character. ROTJ was his best performance by far.

I agree with you here; GL's depiction of Sidious is best.

 

Would you like me to resort to feats? Because I've done it before, and it didn't work.

You can try this with me but you will loose, I assure you.

 

Of course. Rainbow Road is a difficult subject.

 

This is a side debate for me, but OK then. What would you call for productive?

Being open to merit oriented reasoning of others.

 

We've been over this before, haven't we?

 

I think the whole 'potential of the Chosen One' thing kinda puts that to rest.

The potential of Chosen One is still limited; it isn't infinite. Dark side is a pathway to much greater power then what is possible with biological bodies. Luke's midichlorian count is nearly as good as that of Anakin, if I recall correctly; he is still heavily outclassed by several dark side masters in power.

 

Merely pointing out that I believe that they'll keep Chee on hand as Keeper of the Holocron. So I'll let him tell me when to disregard any sort of canon. Sound good?

Time will tell. Also, I have not seen Chee debating about power of characters.

Edited July 14, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[tunewalker]

 

The potential of Chosen One is still limited; it isn't infinite. Dark side is a pathway to much greater power then what is possible with biological bodies. Luke's midichlorian count is nearly as good as that of Anakin, if I recall correctly; he is still heavily outclassed by several dark side masters in power.

 

.

 

Just one thing. Luke developed a technique that allowed him to channel more power through his body then a normal physical body would allow with out succumbing to any of the side effects. In essence he wasn't limited by his biological body.

[LadyKulvax]

Just one thing. Luke developed a technique that allowed him to channel more power through his body then a normal physical body would allow with out succumbing to any of the side effects. In essence he wasn't limited by his biological body.

 

He was also twice as powerful as Darth Sidious, the G-canon most powerful Sith Lord of all time.

[Beniboybling]

I have a problem with how you perceive Vitiate and why you only have a problem with him being possibly more powerful dark side practitioner then Sidious. Their are other (ancient) dark side practitioners in the mythos who fit in this category but you have no problem with them; may I know why?

 

The statement that you are highlighting contains the word "Sith" in it. Of-course, Sith have dark side alignment. However, dark side practitioners are not necessarily Sith; this is the difference that you need to realize for all of the characters and not just Celestials.

I don't have a problem because neither the Sith Emperor, Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow or any other ancient dark side practitioners rival Darth Sidious' power to create the Force storm. I have a problem with you thinking that they can.

 

But you seem to have missed the point here, and are grasping as semantics, the statement I highlighted contains the words (lets put it in context here like you said) 'Sith power.' The Sith power - and there is no room for argument here - is the dark side. Therefore Sidious' accolades are identical to the Sith Emperor's and there is no conflict, because Sidous came after the Sith Emperor. Darth Sidious is the greatest Sith Lord and dark side practitioner ever.

 

Regardless this pointless debate can easily be resolved by examining the nature of the Force Storm and Sidious' near mastery over it. Firstly let's revisit my previous assessment of the ability, Sidious was capable of unleashing immensely powerful Force storms that could rend the very fabricate of space and destroy armies, fleets and even planets. It is the most powerful display of the dark side to date, an unassisted manifestation of pure dark side power.

 

============================

 

Taken from the Book of Anger:

 

It must be understood that anger can be funneled through the body and released near the heart at the "vital gate." The destruction that can be unleashed can be immense. Thousands of enemies can be annihilated in a single act of malice.

 

In time, the channeled anger of the dark side will prove just as destructive as the Death Star. There will no longer be a need for costly constructions. Already, I have perfected the Force maelstrom...

 

...This technique can be increased into a Force Storm. The churning energy mass of a Force Storm can consume everything it touches, for at its eye is pure hate. Just as a black hole devours a star, this storm can swallow armies and fold space. It may take decades to master this art, but once I have perfected it, I will be invincible.

 

You seem to be failing to grasp the full implications of the Force Storm. It should not simply be treated as just another technique in the dark side, but the highest manifestation of dark side energy to date that in order to wield requires unprecedented power and the will necessary to direct it. If the Sith Emperor possessed such power, he would able to create manifestations of dark side energy on such a magnitude, achieving his grand vision would have been a doddle.

 

And before you point the Sith Emperor being impossible to kill and beyond his body etc. Sidious achieved this as well, in place of 'Voices' he produced clones and after his essence was sundered from his body he dragged himself from the depths of Chaos and managed to possess one of his disciples.

 

And even after experiencing a third death Sidious was not defeated, he was only completely destroyed when his essence was trapped in the body of a dying Jedi who dragged him back into the Netherworld.

 

He was immortal, and wielded immense power on a colossal scale. Capable of unleashing the power of the dark side on a magnitude that the Sith Emperor was simply incapable of - which is painfully evident from the failure of his vision.

 

============================

 

The only other instance in which the Force Storm has been unleashed was by Darth Rivan through the aid of the Darkstaff, an incredibly powerful sentient dark side artifact. In order to unleash the Force Storm the Darkstaff had to be charged with colossal levels of dark side energy by absorbing the Force energy of living beings. Essentially a variant of Force drain.

 

This can be directly compared to the Sith Emperor's planned ritual to consume the life force of the entire galaxy which in order to enact required the sacrifice of billions of life forms, to provide the necessary Force energy to complete the ritual. What it is vital to note however is that firstly, as your incorrect use of syntax made clear, the Sith Emperor never completed the ritual, and therefore secondly he never achieved the Force power necessary to create the massive dark side nexus you refer to. Simply put the Sith Emperor, like Darth Rivan, could not manifest dark side energies on a galactic scale without external aid - whereas Darth Sidious, who did not require the absorption of Force sensitives to complete unleash the Force storm - could, because his Force affinity was considerably greater.

 

I cannot stress enough that pointing to the Sith Emperor's grand ritual is redundant, because he was not yet powerful enough to enact it and failed to achieve that power. Which I'm afraid leaves you with nothing else, because Darth Sidious has surpassed the Sith Emperor's mastery over mind control, Force drain, Sith lightning and the creation of dark side nexuses. The evidence against you I'm afraid is painfully evident.

[Aurbere]

You know me! I can argue in favor of Vitiate much better then anybody in this forum yet.

 

Not that it helps your case.

 

Even if we reduce this debate to feat wars, Vitiate have Sidious beat in several aspects.

 

No, Sidious has Vitiate beat in several aspects.

 

You are tossing my statements back at me; this isn't a positive way to make your point.

 

I'm doing that becuase I don't really care, but if you want.

 

You can try this with me but you will loose, I assure you.

 

Aw, that's cute. Trust me, I think I can handle this.

 

Being open to merit oriented reasoning of others.

 

So side with you? No thanks.

 

The potential of Chosen One is still limited; it isn't infinite. Dark side is a pathway to much greater power then what is possible with biological bodies. Luke's midichlorian count is nearly as good as that of Anakin, if I recall correctly; he is still heavily outclassed by several dark side masters in power.

 

Luke Skywalker achieved the potential of Anakin Skywalker, as in he's twice as powerful as Darth Sidious.

 

Time will tell. Also, I have not seen Chee debating about power of characters.

 

He's already made it clear who the best is on his Twitter.

[LadyKulvax]

You two should probably have gussed already but this guy clearly doesnt care what canon states and will only accept the canon that fits his opinion.