Some incredibly rude players

[-Kyuzo-]

jug's don't get mass taunt till 38? assassin's get it at what 20 something? i call bs..

 

plus you can always trade loot and if you can't trade then **** pay the $5.

 

if you wanna treat tanks like crap then GL with your future FP's yes he said he needed anything that was heavy but pointed out that the team didn't give him enough time.

 

the group shouldn't be doing anything till the tank engages that's his job which in turn would of gave him enough time.

 

they could of fixed the problem themselves by clicking need it'll turn out the same as if everyone one clicks greed.

Edited April 16, 2013 by -Kyuzo-

[Blimble]

also one of the biggest issues i have faced as a lvl 53 jug is people dont understand that a Cooldown still exists at this level. Frustrating at times yes to be scolded for bio's fault

[Blackardin]

I bet he did and i agree with him in every aspect of his post.

 

Can add me also. Can't hold aggro, rolling need on everything, holding the group up by taking forever to chose?

 

Look, if he was talking about one player that would be one thing, but if the entire group is upset with his behavior, it may not be the group. Sort of reminds me of the guy telling his drill instructor that its the platoon that is out of step and not him. ;p

[DarthVengeant]

Unfortunately too many people have this thing called ego. it RUINS gaming. Flat out. I could care less about an ego, my high score, how "good I am" or anything else other than playing the game to have fun and escape. I get so sick of people acting superior and insulting everyone. Yelling like 2yr olds and harassing you even after the FP/Ops is done pming you until you have to ignore them. General chat just makes me sick of humans period. You can't say anything or have an intelligent conversation. Our society has fallen to the level of toilet paper minds and maturity, there really is NO excuse for it. "Trolling" seems to be the only thing people are capable of anymore. "That's the internet" or "That's just how it is" or "That's MMO's for you". No, that's NOT "just how it is", people CHOOSE how they act. It doesn't HAVE to be this way. CHOOSE to be more civil, respectful, and MATURE. Hiding behind your keyboard acting like a child just ruins everyone else's enjoyment and shows your lack of maturity and civility.

 

You get back what you give to others.

Edited April 16, 2013 by DarthVengeant

[Binidj]

There are no area taunts, there are no special abilities to enhance mass threat at level 15

 

By that level all tank classes have at least one area-effect attack and a threat-increasing stance. Agreed that at Black Talon/Esseles level a tank is no different to a dps, however by level 15 there are sufficient skills to tank effectively, though this is often reliant on the dps allowing the tank to get initial threat on mobs.

 

As they go up in levels, tank classes get more tools to manage threat simply because other classes are also progressing in their skills. On a level-by-level equivalence, from about level 15 group roles are pretty much solid. Anyone who tells you different either doesn't know what they're talking about or has encountered some very poor players.

 

As far as needing on inappropriate items is concerned, anyone doing that in my groups (whether I'm tanking, dps or healing) gets ignored and kicked.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Binidj

[Syas]

I have to ask, why decline? By accepting you are not signing a social contract that requires that you stay in the group for any period of time. If you have to leave then /leave, or if you have the time say "thanks for the help" and /leave. Typing "afk", or even just going idle wouldn't make you a burden on the other player. Or if you're worried about taking him by surprise, you can say that you may take off randomly due to real-life.

 

Unlike flashpoints/heroics/operations, grouping for open world quests is simply a matter of convenience. It allows both players to progress without having to fight over the limited resources and speeds up the genocidal murder of random mobs.

 

I can certainly understand your reasons for avoiding group based objectives, but I'm curious as to your reasoning for avoiding groups for shared objectives.

 

I have been playing MMOs since EQ1, longer if you count MUDs and the such. My outlook is that everyone has time they are putting into the game, and that if I group with someone, I am going to commit to making that time productive. If I can't reasonably make the group my priority, I don't waste other people's time.

 

Anyway, on the tanking side, you must consider that the FP was hammer station that is, what, in the 15-19 range? So it's understandable if a tank can't take much aggro... after all (I play assassin), the first tier in the defense tree doesn't contain any aggro-enhancing ability, so he has to rely only on the stance and (if it has been unlocked) the single target taunt...

 

For the need part... well yes, you did a mistake, but it happens

 

I have to call foul on this. I ran HS at 15 last night (by accident, thought I was queueing for BT), and did just fine tanking. Having a focused team, understanding your abilities, and "spreading the love" (I.E. tab targetting) gets the job done just fine. The only deaths were me twice and the healer and one DPS once (after I had died), and it was my own fault for being minimum level and subpar geared. If I had been 17 or so with appropriate gear I don't anticipate there would have been any deaths.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Syas

[Xeperi]

So you didn't do your job at the start (because yes, as a tank you're to make sure you have aggro on everything that isn't normal mobs) AND you need on gear with stats you don't even need.

 

But the others were the rude players, yes.

 

What we have here is the real definition of the word 'noob'. Something without knowledge who refuses to learn and blames others for it.

 

Refuses to learn??????????? How can one learn something when no one tels them??? Read the damn thread or don't respond.

[Xeperi]

Anyway, on the tanking side, you must consider that the FP was hammer station that is, what, in the 15-19 range? So it's understandable if a tank can't take much aggro... after all (I play assassin), the first tier in the defense tree doesn't contain any aggro-enhancing ability, so he has to rely only on the stance and (if it has been unlocked) the single target taunt...

 

For the need part... well yes, you did a mistake, but it happens

 

^^^This.

[Xeperi]

I agree, The tanks real main concern is to keep everyone alve by keep aggro on him, You Lose aggro you put the entire TEAM at risk

 

At level 15 aside from running around and actually hitting EVERYTHING in a mob a few times there is nothing to be done. Yes, smash. Smash gets them all on the lvl 15 jugg right away because it is a pathetic aoe attack but as soon as they start getting hammered by the dps which is practically standing on the healers head, they all swarm to that spot. So , at lvl 15, forget about tanking the hardest few spawn in the mob, you gotta spam smash (mobs lol at that) and run around and hit each every individual thing all the time because otherwise your not keeping every single thing aggrod. So of 100% tanking, that gets split evenly amongst all the spawn. If there are ten things then its 10% each, including the elites?

 

Something I am learning the hard way is to just decline unless it is an all sith party. A jugg a sin two sorcs and there is never a problem. At this level anyways. One of the reasons the subject of this thread is so frustrating is because I have done the easy flash points (talon, hammer point, and althiss) so many easy and quick times that none of what anyone was saying in the run was even a real issue in terms of finishing the run in a quick and efficient way- I was way wrong in how I picked loot and I have corrected that. Seriously if me taking level 15 heavy armor with aim on it is such a big deal, please say so and dont just call me a pos. I will never do it again, will gladly trade it back to you, an if it is bound will either give you the credits or go on the gtn to buy the same thing and give it to you.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Xeperi

[Xeperi]

I have to call foul on this. I ran HS at 15 last night (by accident, thought I was queueing for BT), and did just fine tanking. Having a focused team, understanding your abilities, and "spreading the love" (I.E. tab targetting) gets the job done just fine. The only deaths were me twice and the healer and one DPS once (after I had died), and it was my own fault for being minimum level and subpar geared. If I had been 17 or so with appropriate gear I don't anticipate there would have been any deaths.

 

We had absolutely no deaths at all on the HS in the OP. The first fight with the elite droid lasted about 5 seconds, I didn't get healed, didn't need healed and the healer said, "I cant heal if I am getting swarmed with stuff". I said, "who is dps?" After that dps pulled everything and I went ahead and aggrod everything away from dps which was pulling. The the thing with loot came up. Yes, HS should be a cakewalk and normally is. My whole point here is that the people in my group were already really pissy before they even started the fp and instead of telling me about loot they took out some earlier butt-hurt on me.

[Syas]

We had absolutely no deaths at all on the HS in the OP. The first fight with the elite droid lasted about 5 seconds, I didn't get healed, didn't need healed and the healer said, "I cant heal if I am getting swarmed with stuff". I said, "who is dps?" After that dps pulled everything and I went ahead and aggrod everything away from dps which was pulling. The the thing with loot came up. Yes, HS should be a cakewalk and normally is. My whole point here is that the people in my group were already really pissy before they even started the fp and instead of telling me about loot they took out some earlier butt-hurt on me.

 

I wasn't calling foul on you bud, I was calling foul on a Pre-Taunt Tank not being able to hold aggro on everything (yes, everything) in HS. You know what you did wrong, you know what your group did wrong, no sense harping on you about it.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Syas

[SystemProcess]

Smash gets them all on the lvl 15 jugg right away because it is a pathetic aoe attack

 

I just had to LOL at this because PvPers complain about smash so much. XD

[Vincke]

Refuses to learn??????????? How can one learn something when no one tels them??? Read the damn thread or don't respond.

 

And yet another reason why I'm glad for your teammates you left. Please go buy a brain before reading further.

 

You refuse to learn because you still think they were being rude, while YOU were the one in the wrong. You did not do your job as tank, and you needed an item that wasn't even useful to you. (there is no excuse for this...)

 

Your team probably questioned why you did that (because you were wrong in doing so) and then you come over here whining about this little thing that is YOUR fault instead of learning what you did wrong (not tanking and being a 'ninja') .

[Xeperi]

By that level all tank classes have at least one area-effect attack and a threat-increasing stance. Agreed that at Black Talon/Esseles level a tank is no different to a dps, however by level 15 there are sufficient skills to tank effectively, though this is often reliant on the dps allowing the tank to get initial threat on mobs.

 

As they go up in levels, tank classes get more tools to manage threat simply because other classes are also progressing in their skills. On a level-by-level equivalence, from about level 15 group roles are pretty much solid. Anyone who tells you different either doesn't know what they're talking about or has encountered some very poor players.

 

A lot of it comes down to me not being used to playing jugg. Imo Sin gets easy aggro abilities early on. You can range attack multiple targets with sufficient damage in a matter of seconds. Jugg gets smash which is pathetic. This is not a case where there are elites and strongs running around slaughtering healers- no - I had all of the strongs on me and dps failed to pick up the odd ads that jumped up here and there. In one or two fights. There were no deaths and this run was not a fail parade. It got to ALMOST the bridge when someone called me a pos over loot selection (which I WAS wrong in).

 

 

As far as needing on inappropriate items is concerned, anyone doing that in my groups (whether I'm tanking, dps or healing) gets ignored and kicked.

 

How does this help people to learn to select loot in an appropriate way when suddenly they are ignored and booted? I have no problem with booting people or being booted, but it is only truly self-serving without at least making an attempt to see that the person understand WHY they are being booted.

[Syas]

A lot of it comes down to me not being used to playing jugg. Imo Sin gets easy aggro abilities early on. You can range attack multiple targets with sufficient damage in a matter of seconds. Jugg gets smash which is pathetic. This is not a case where there are elites and strongs running around slaughtering healers- no - I had all of the strongs on me and dps failed to pick up the odd ads that jumped up here and there. In one or two fights. There were no deaths and this run was not a fail parade. It got to ALMOST the bridge when someone called me a pos over loot selection (which I WAS wrong in).

 

You need to not rely on Smash alone. Like I said in my original reply, you need to spread the love. Tab target and use abilities on all of the enemies, you should be able to hold aggro without much issue.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Syas

[Xeperi]

Can add me also. Can't hold aggro, rolling need on everything, holding the group up by taking forever to chose?

 

Look, if he was talking about one player that would be one thing, but if the entire group is upset with his behavior, it may not be the group. Sort of reminds me of the guy telling his drill instructor that its the platoon that is out of step and not him. ;p

 

It was two players-the dps who weren't picking up ads and then got upset and started pulling everything. The healer already posted in this thread.

[KryloKillian]

I just had to LOL at this because PvPers complain about smash so much. XD

 

Only on marauders and only in a particular tree that makes it crit huge and often. It's pretty much just 'okay' for marauders not in that tree, and I have no idea how good/bad it is for juggs, but I'd guess, at best, only about as good for non-smassh specced marauders..

[FearMyPower]

Let me translate this so people understand the events.

 

Op here queued up as a tank and arrived in a Hammer Station run in progress.

 

The healer complains that they keep getting attacked by adds.

 

A DPS pulls prematurely and OP attempts to aggro everything to be helpful.

 

Still following? Good.

 

Loot drops and OP needs on all the heavy armor without looking at the stats to be sure it's for him.

 

DPS call him out on it.

 

OP quits the run.

 

Okay, now let's fix what went wrong.

 

1. As a Tank, you are supposed to aggro the Champions and Elites. DPS are supposed to kill the normals first, then help you take down the Champs and Elites. Keep the healer in your line of sight. Turn the camera, kit the enemy to turn around etc. If any champs or Elites attack the healer, you intervene. The DPS handle the normals if they attack the healer. To reiterate: Champs and Elites, Tank's job. Normals, DPS job.

 

2. You do not need all willy nilly. Read the stats. It takes you all of two seconds. If the first stat is not Strength, it's not yours. Greed it. If you need it for a companion, Ask first.

 

3. This post shows you are just as rude as the other players. 1. For needing everything without explaining after the first roll and 2. For leaving the run in progress.

 

OP, you were just caught in a bad day for them and you made their day worse. It may be a game, but games usually warrant a good time to be supplied by all those involved. The fact that you Needed without explaining your reasons is rude. The DPS were rude, simply because you appeared rude to them. You can't convey tone via text, so your Sorry most likely came off as sarcastic. Likewise, DPS need to cover the targets and not expect you to do all the work. If the healer wipes because a normal got them, it's on the DPS. Not you. You do your job and aggro the tough ones. Normals are fairly weak to the DPS, so there should have been no problems.

 

 

damn! This post should be a sticky on flashpoint behavior! Nice job.

[Jeweledleah]

reading some of this thread, just completely removed any leftover desire i still had to pug tank in TOR.

 

if the expectation is that I'm supposed to hold EVERYTHING on me as a tank in a flashpoint? then other people can deal with that futility. because in TOR its pretty much impossible.

 

average trash pull in TOR consists of multiple clusters of mobs that are NOT in close enough range of each other to hit them all and keep them all by a single person. at least half the pulls also have extra group of mobs come out from previously closed room. usually weak mobs. I play mainly healers. my main is a healer. yes, i cannot heal when stuff is pounding on me, but I don't expect the tank to pick it all up. I expect dps to take up a slack, getting down those weak ranged mobs. even at max level, tanks have 2 taunts, both with relatively long CD's they cannot spam them. sometimes, they have to actually save them. AoE taunt has about the same range as AoE attacks, so it won't hit mobs that are too far away yet are still considered part of the pull. trying to hit every single mob in a pull generally tends to result in loss of aggro on everything, not just weak mobs. it is DPS's job to take care of weak mobs before moving on to stronger ones the tank is holding. as a healer, I expect to heal them through it. it only becomes difficult for me, when mobs continuously pound on me, while I still have to heal the tank.

 

tanking in TOR is NOT like tanking in other games. you have smaller tighter groups in other games. you don't get bounced around or stunned by the mobs that you are trying to tank in other games. the fact that so many expect it to be anyways? and then you wonder why group finder queues are getting longer.

 

now. I don't agree with OP's actions. I wouldn't just hit need on every piece of heavy armor, personally. even when I'm too busy to thoroughly compare the stats, at least I check if they are the stats I can actually use. but I do see where the frustration is coming from.

[NOTACTICS]

Group pulls depend on their make up and I would say priority one for a tank would be make the first move to hold aggro on the champion or if no champion two/three elites pref the melle ones. Say you have 1 champ 1 Elite and 3 strongs, Stelth in if you have that option as a tank and CC stun the one elite and then get to work on the champion, DPS work on any the strongs first which will drop very quick then both work on the stunned Elite, should not take that long with two on the one elite then only the champion left.

 

It's just about impossible to always hold aggro on all mobs with the cooldowns involved and the attack behavior of some bosses. Weak and silvers are almost an irrelvance and should be downed quickly by the ranged DPS including any re-spaws during a boss battle. A DPS can even handle a single elite on his own so if you have a mob group of 4 elites tank takes two (Pref the meelle ones) and each DPS takes the one each of the other two ranged elites (you can CC stun one ranged elite to help for short while to so that both DPS get the first elite at least down to 50% before the other one wakes back up), healer need to be left free as much a possible to heal the Tank.

A healer will never pull aggro off a Tank or DPS on an Elite or champion so is only at risk from stray weaks and silvers re-spaws which should be downed dead quick.

 

Always choose Greed even for gear that is useful, gear that is not useful I always pass, if its not useful/usable to you why have it. You can always do a trade afterwards anyway if you have been unlucky and not won anything on greed rolls, good groups will realise if someone did not get no loot and offer something useful. Play fair and people will remember you as good'un and group up in future.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Lol ya you were there. I dropped after being called a piece of ****. Sorry, another player can yell at me that I am a newb, that I need to learn this or that and so on, but to call me a piece of ****...nah, that cant be tolerated. Selecting need was an honest mistake on my part, and before I could explain anything or try to trade back I was called a pos. And ya, I do tank the champs and elites- at least I know I am supposed to, while keeping an eye on the healer.

 

Yeah, you were called a PoS. That's kind of sucky. But I bet they only called you that because you acted like one by needing everything without explaining, and you proved it by dropping the run. In their eyes, you're ninja and a quitter. And I need to remind you that Group Finder is not cross realm. These are your server mates, and this WILL reflect poorly on you. We have a small playerbase, so this will probably get around. If you remember those player's names. you should write them a mail explaining your actions and apologize. Yes, I know, you shouldn't apologize, they were the ones who said PoS. But you have to be the bigger man/woman here and suck it up. If you apologize first, I bet they will apologize and probably rescind their gripes about you.

[Syas]

tanking in TOR is NOT like tanking in other games. you have smaller tighter groups in other games. you don't get bounced around or stunned by the mobs that you are trying to tank in other games. the fact that so many expect it to be anyways? and then you wonder why group finder queues are getting longer.

 

I don't mean this to sound bad, but you are right, there is a difference with TOR, tanking requires effort. In most other games, you gear up and then follow an "Optimal TPS Rotation" for bosses, while just spamming your AoE threat generator for groups. In TOR, you are right that you often fight groups with spaced out mobs. Tanking is not hard in TOR provided you follow three rules:

 

1) Gear/Spec appropriately

2) Discuss kill order with group

3) Spread the love

Edited April 17, 2013 by Syas