Most overpowered class/spec EVER

[Astarica]

I think Deception feels overpowered because if they crit both of their Mauls procs that they get that's like 75% of your health gone. It's unlikely with the crit nerf but it can happen and nobody remembers the time when both Maul didn't crit (far more likely) and you proceeded to pound their face. In particular now a Deception Assassin actually has a good chance at defeating a Darkness Assassin in the 1on1 battle that actually matters, the solo 1on1 node scenario. Winning this 1on1 can basically decide the game and can be considered powerful, but really that just means Darkness Assassin no longer are guaranteed to win on any 1on1 defense scenarois and may actually need backup.

 

I think Deception is still sort of weak overall, but since Darkness is still some kind of alpha class, having a class that can take a node guarded by a Darkness Assassin 1on1 can be far more important than just piling up more damage numbers.

[yotasatheart]

2.0 deception sins are more overpowered than vanilla operative or pre 2.0 smash warriors...by a good amount. It is great fun and everything and im sure all the sins are having a great time stun lock globaling everyone but im just wondering what the over/under on how long until the nerf comes. Because their is no way they are going to let this spec slide for as long as they did for smash and bubble stun.

 

lol.

we are not over powered.

deception is a BURST class. its sustained damage is mediocre at best.

not only that, but the spec is fairly dependant on getting crits on maul shock and discharge. if even one of these abilities doesnt crit, its a huge stepback.

 

please go troll another forum

[Jeeses]

If people didn't know you were a troll before, they should after reading that. How bout you put in a sig saying who you are, what server you play on, and what guild you run with that is the best in all of SWTOR. Til then....

 

GET A LIFE

 

 

 

I know for sure if i played all classes (bar 1) and was in SWTOR world #1 ranked wz team I'd definitely be making a sig to flaunt that, and I'm not even one to show off who I am

[Aetrus]

In particular now a Deception Assassin actually has a good chance at defeating a Darkness Assassin in the 1on1 battle that actually matters, the solo 1on1 node scenario. Winning this 1on1 can basically decide the game and can be considered powerful, but really that just means Darkness Assassin no longer are guaranteed to win on any 1on1 defense scenarois and may actually need backup.

 

I think Deception is still sort of weak overall, but since Darkness is still some kind of alpha class, having a class that can take a node guarded by a Darkness Assassin 1on1 can be far more important than just piling up more damage numbers.

 

I haven't gotten to test this much against players on my server (most of whom are admittedly bad), but I'd assume a Darkness player would still beat out a Deception player, assuming equal skill/gear. Now even more so than before. I mean previously you just waited for 2 Voltaic Slashes, then hit Force Shroud and their burst was gone. Now the burst is even easier to see coming, plus you can give yourself 25% extra DR for 15 seconds, plus you can actually block the damage now with a shield. I'm not saying Deception is weak. I think it's incredibly strong in the pre-55 bracket. But I do think a Darkness player should win if they're good.

[Astarica]

I haven't gotten to test this much against players on my server (most of whom are admittedly bad), but I'd assume a Darkness player would still beat out a Deception player, assuming equal skill/gear. Now even more so than before. I mean previously you just waited for 2 Voltaic Slashes, then hit Force Shroud and their burst was gone. Now the burst is even easier to see coming, plus you can give yourself 25% extra DR for 15 seconds, plus you can actually block the damage now with a shield. I'm not saying Deception is weak. I think it's incredibly strong in the pre-55 bracket. But I do think a Darkness player should win if they're good.

 

The fight against Deception is going to go something like Voltiac Slash, ???, Low Slash, Maul. The ??? is there because you don't know when the first duplicity will proc and the attacker have different attack patterns. Given the game's generous definition of 'behind' we can assume both Mauls will connect. If they both crit you're probably taking like 8KX2 (though this might be lower now, my number might be skewed from the naked bolster guys who are doing way too much damage). At this point, this is not a recoverable fight. You're not going to come back from 16K HP down and you will lose. The chance of this happening is very small, but it can happen. More importantly, this can happen very quickly. Normally, a Darkness assassin defending has plenty of time to call for reinforcements because he can definitely stall enough time for help to arrive. In this scenario you will lose and help won't arrive on time. To be fair I see that Maul only hits me for low 2Ks now which suggest a crit would be at most 5K, so perhaps those numbers are from the Bolster issues.

 

Still, since recklessness now generates 3 stacks of Surging Charge this also makes it harder to predict when to use your CDs, as Force Shroud won't stop Maul or Low Slash and Saber Ward won't stop Surging Charge or Shock. I guess the best way to do it is use Overcharge Saber immediately as that works on everything, and that implies Deception is getting a lot of respect because there are a lot of classes that can't even force me to use Overcharge Saber at all let alone immediately.

[Aetrus]

The fight against Deception is going to go something like Voltiac Slash, ???, Low Slash, Maul. The ??? is there because you don't know when the first duplicity will proc and the attacker have different attack patterns. Given the game's generous definition of 'behind' we can assume both Mauls will connect. If they both crit you're probably taking like 8KX2 (though this might be lower now, my number might be skewed from the naked bolster guys who are doing way too much damage). At this point, this is not a recoverable fight.

 

Nah. Deception's set up right now is, ideally, Recklessness>Spike>Discharge>Maul>Shock>Low Slash>Maul>...probably Assassinate at that point. I've been Deception ever since I created my Sin back in December, who is currently 55. That rotation lets you put out the most damage the fastest. You can opt for using Maul before Discharge, but I wouldn't because you'd probably miss out on the 9% extra crit chance from Exploitive Strikes. Spike gets you your Duplicity proc automatically. Discharge crits about 90-95% of the time with Recklessness. So does Shock. Low Slash procs Duplicity again. So the burst is very up front and direct. It's also very obvious. You get Spiked, wait to get up and pop Shroud immediately. A smart player will probably Low Slash you and try to wait it out, but that just means you have time to recover with Overcharge Saber and reorient yourself.

 

Still, since recklessness now generates 3 stacks of Surging Charge this also makes it harder to predict when to use your CDs, as Force Shroud won't stop Maul or Low Slash and Saber Ward won't stop Surging Charge or Shock. I guess the best way to do it is use Overcharge Saber immediately as that works on everything, and that implies Deception is getting a lot of respect because there are a lot of classes that can't even force me to use Overcharge Saber at all let alone immediately.

 

Shields can now block Force and Tech attacks IIRC as of 2.0. So yeah, Dark Ward can definitely mitigate Discharge and Shock damage.

[Baalzamon]

If Deception Assassins are OP than what the hell are snipers then?

[Philelectric]

Nah. Deception's set up right now is, ideally, Recklessness>Spike>Discharge>Maul>Shock>Low Slash>Maul>...probably Assassinate at that point.

 

Reck>spike>Discharge (1.5 sec) Maul (1.5 sec) Shock (1.5 sec) 4.5 sec total after you duplicity procced by spike and you use low slash for what? Waste it to lower your DPS and avoid a Duplicity procced by low slash?

 

EDIT

 

I haven't gotten to test this much against players on my server (most of whom are admittedly bad), but I'd assume a Darkness player would still beat out a Deception player, assuming equal skill/gear. Now even more so than before. I mean previously you just waited for 2 Voltaic Slashes, then hit Force Shroud and their burst was gone. Now the burst is even easier to see coming, plus you can give yourself 25% extra DR for 15 seconds, plus you can actually block the damage now with a shield. I'm not saying Deception is weak. I think it's incredibly strong in the pre-55 bracket. But I do think a Darkness player should win if they're good.

 

What the??? I dont even... pre 2.0 it was almost impossible for a DECEPTION to loose a 1v1 versus any Darkness hybrid or full darkness assassin. Seriously, if you lost any 1v1 versus a hybrid or darkness assassin pre 2.0 as a Deception assassin, you are a bad Deception assassin.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Philelectric

[Aetrus]

Reck>spike>Discharge (1.5 sec) Maul (1.5 sec) Shock (1.5 sec) 4.5 sec total after you duplicity procced by spike and you use low slash for what? Waste it to lower your DPS and avoid a Duplicity procced by low slash?

 

Uh...What? Spike procs Duplicity. Discharge. Maul to consume Duplicity proc. Shock. Low Slash after that is to proc Duplicity again, so you can Maul again. That means after Spike procs Duplicity it isn't 4.5 sec after, its 1 GCD and then a Maul.

 

What the??? I dont even... pre 2.0 it was almost impossible for a DECEPTION to loose a 1v1 versus any Darkness hybrid or full darkness assassin. Seriously, if you lost any 1v1 versus a hybrid or darkness assassin pre 2.0 as a Deception assassin, you are a bad Deception assassin.

On my Deception Sin I don't really recall having trouble with any specific class/type, aside from Juggernauts being very annoying. I was simply going off of what Wakalord says in his Wakajinn thread in the OP:

 

While this spec makes for an excellent skirmish fighter, it truly shines when attempting to ninja cap a node. Played correctly you can 1v1 literally any spec in the game (I tend to have most trouble against darkness-based assassins, but only the absolute best. And even then, I still am more than capable of winning).

 

I gave him the benefit of the doubt because I've seen him play and he's definitely better than me.

[Horkey]

Uh...What? Spike procs Duplicity. Discharge. Maul to consume Duplicity proc. Shock. Low Slash after that is to proc Duplicity again, so you can Maul again. That means after Spike procs Duplicity it isn't 4.5 sec after, its 1 GCD and then a Maul.

 

 

On my Deception Sin I don't really recall having trouble with any specific class/type, aside from Juggernauts being very annoying. I was simply going off of what Wakalord says in his Wakajinn thread in the OP:

 

While this spec makes for an excellent skirmish fighter, it truly shines when attempting to ninja cap a node. Played correctly you can 1v1 literally any spec in the game (I tend to have most trouble against darkness-based assassins, but only the absolute best. And even then, I still am more than capable of winning).

 

I gave him the benefit of the doubt because I've seen him play and he's definitely better than me.

 

Spike and low slash proc duplicity on the same cd. you can't proc duplicity with spike and then proc it again 4.5 sec later with low slash. you have to wait for 9 seconds.

[Aetrus]

Spike and low slash proc duplicity on the same cd. you can't proc duplicity with spike and then proc it again 4.5 sec later with low slash. you have to wait for 9 seconds.

 

Real. Thanks for clarifying, I apparently misunderstood 'Impose Weakness.' I know I've proc'd it practically back to back before, but I guess it was from Shock. I was parsing yesterday and noticing it not proccing twice like that and thinking it was weird.

[Astarica]

It realy doesn't help getting class balance accomplished when a spec (Deception) that's still questionable for competitive WZ is always claiming they can defeat the alpha node defender spec (Darkness) in the game.

 

If Deception are so good at 1on1, people would use them to defend nodes, because the case you're most worried at node defense is the 1on1. Unless you live in fear of a team of stunlocking Ops pop out of stealth to take your node, Deception (or anyone else)'s inability to put up a meaningful fight in 1 versus LOTS is irrelevent because you can always see when the LOTS is coming.

 

You will not have Spike against a Darkness the vast majority of time, because unlike the Operative, Blackout is also your defensive CD so attempting to use that to find the defender can easily cost you the fight if you guessed wrong. If Darkness uses Overcharge Saber it's game over for you as you're looking at 46% internal reduction and ~60% energy reduction which negates any kind of burst you can do. The only question is does he take you seriously enough to use that, and that since Overcharge Saber takes 2 minutes to use, the attacker can simply die on purpose when he realizes Overcharge Saber was used, and then come back again knowing Overcharge Saber won't be up on time, which makes the fight much closer. Still, during this time, the defenders should've used this advantage to consolidate their positions and possibly send backup for the defender until Overcharge Saber is up again.

[ThroughVictory]

Doubt the OP even did any 55 PvP. Obviously did like 3 games in bolster and got a little excited.

[mrdert]

Doubt the OP even did any 55 PvP. Obviously did like 3 games in bolster and got a little excited.

 

This. At level 50 deception is absolutely the bees knees. Between the increase to damage and retaining the 30%+ crit chance, I was 1-2 shotting most everyone I touched. I've even saved a ss of a 9k maul at lvl 50.

However, as you level your crit and surge chances drop dramatically. By level 55 you're not doing that much more damage than you were before 2.0.

Edited April 19, 2013 by mrdert

[Astarica]

This. At level 50 deception is absolutely the bees knees. Between the increase to damage and retaining the 30%+ crit chance, I was 1-2 shotting most everyone I touched. I've even saved a ss of a 9k maul at lvl 50.

However, as you level your crit and surge chances drop dramatically. By level 55 you're not doing that much more damage than you were before 2.0.

 

I'm starting to think those 8K+ Mauls are from Bolster being out of whack and boosting people to levels far beyond even the best gear level in the game, because at 55 I noticed these 8K Mauls simply stopped happening. Of course, 2 crit Mauls is still something you should take very seriously, but along with the much lower crit % at 55 you simply can't count on critting 2 Mauls in a row.

 

Now even having a chance to take the node from a Darkness Assassin is nothing to sneeze at. A lot of classes have no chance of doing that even if they somehow beat the Darkness (because it's trivial for the Darkness Assassin to stall long enough until help arrives). Just the possibilty of bursting one down before help can arrive is quite threatening, but I'm not sure if that alone is enough to offset the fact that Deception is nothing special in anything outside of 1on1. I mean, surely no one is afraid of a Deception Assassin that's been revealed in any kind of large scale fight. The same old tricks to keep distance and whatnot works just fine and it's very hard to stay stealthed in a large fight just due to all the AEs flying around.

[Ottoattack]

Is deception right now powerful? Yes. OP, not so sure. It does great burst damage, but it is heavily depended on RNG, because you need critic on 4 opening attacks in a row and a duplicity proc. If you get 1 out of the 4 to critic (gee 25% which is the cap with buff), you are not going to deal more than 15K-17K damage, and the class sustained damage aint that great.

 

Surviability, contrary to what a couple of people are saying, is very high. With the proc in the tree and 2 points down in madness you are close to 30% damage reduction. Add black out, which is very spam able and you are at 50% damage reduction most of the time. Then here comes 50% defense chance to white damage on 120 sec CD. 100% immunity to yellow damage and most CCs on 60 sec CD. Vanish on 90 sec cd. How is that low survivablility.

 

Again, the class is high burst, moderate to low sustained. Also, once in combat, no gap closer and one slow. Not exactly great for chasing healers. Deception is where it always needed to be and is more valid now as a dps option.

[LegendaryQuan]

old, dead thread. was written before bolster fix. is no longer my view and was not written in this build of the game. before the bolster fix the spec was ridiculous though. is fine now.

[Cerdo_hormiguero]

It's extremely rare to see an 8k Maul crit at 55 (maybe 1 in 100, and only vs. a poorly [i.e. ignorantly] geared enemy with minimal bolstered expertise). My combat logs show Maul averaging 4-4.5k. Sub-55, yeah Assassins deal some outrageous burst (8k crits were maybe 1 in 5, and I got a few 11k ones); but that is the fault of BWs terrible bolster (especially bad for how it boosted dmg higher than 55, but with 25% lower hp pools).

 

The 2 things that disprove Assassin's being imbalanced:

-- A good, geared Mara/Jugg averages much higher Smashes than an equal Assassin's Mauls, and it is AoE and auto-crit (vs. a max of 1 in 3 chance to crit [25% crit + 9% from Exploitative Strikes, if the buff is built up]) -- and these Smashes occur as frequently as an Assassin's Mauls (according to my combat log comparison with a Marauder friend)

-- Assassin's cc-lock strength is due to resolve being poorly implemented (takes too long to build full resolve and decays too quickly); a tweak to resolve would improve the game-wide problem of being cced to death -- i.e. it's not an Assassin issue, it's a game issue

[underpantsgnomes]

Sins got somewhat nerfed in 2.0. Elimination of insta-WW and moving out of stealth spike high into the darkness tree basically killed our advantage in cc. Damage is no better than before - maybe a bit worse (might be b/c I switched to using a shield - not 100% sure). Without that teleport I'd say survivability for anything not darkness went down as well. Overall a crappy patch that killed hybrid sin specs.

[JP_Legatus]

Darkness full tanks got buffed by the biggest margin of any spec in any game ever and were already decent beforehand. Shield went from mitigating only white damage to mitigating everything but internal and they buffed our force management and escapism, adding shock to our rotation (tanks usually went shockless for force management) plus phasewalk... and you're complaining about a squishy melee dps spec that has good burst from stealth. It still is single target, not aoe and it still does less per hit than smash does, let alone ravage or force crush or... need I go on.

Honestly if I were to say something is OP I'd say its darkness full tank. I haven't pvp'd since 2.0 dropped yet though, still getting to 55 (took a break when PTS went down). But I am honestly surprised people are complaining about deception... being a deception at heart since the game went live I guess I have something to look forward to at 55. It must be good if people are complaining that much.

Edited April 25, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[BacaWicket]

The sniper is pretty op considering that it can mop the floor with most similar leveled players before they ever enter their attack range

 

But the commando wears armor providing TONS of protection and they get a big cannon dealing a sh**load of firepower and for most people like c3po you are "doomed" unless you can get up close as a maud or jugg

[BacaWicket]

the shad is pretty fun even if it isnt the most op class because you get to turn invis and relentlessly cc imps 5 lvls above yours

[DarkSaberMaster]

Ummmm. Necro much?