It's great to PVE with no Damage Meters

[Skiveron]

I agree in random PUGs some kid talking about dps meters is lame, but its important for established guilds tackling end game content.

[Yfelsung]

Exactly right. I don't understand why people like this guy don't just play FPS games like MW3 and leave our mmo games alone.

 

Yes, because no one plays multiple genres of games.

 

Impossible. Once you sign up as an MMO player, all other genres are locked from you.

 

We must maintain glorious genre purity.

 

You want to know the sad part?

 

That thought actually made it all the way from inception, through your logic center, through your language center, out your fingers, into your computer AND you hit the submit button.

 

That's what makes me sad, right there.

[Jett-Rinn]

You underestimate modders.

 

Once the information exists, we can make a mod out of it.

 

Most modders are fairly accomplished programmers in their own right.

 

No I don't underestimate modders considering that I have written many mods in my life. But using the information for unintended purposes is exactly why Bioware is keeping it off right now IMO.

 

Bioware isn't stupid they do not want to piss off all the subscribers who are tired of such tools being used to degrade and insult others...look at the stance they have taken on the forums; in game will not be any different. They will come up with a medium but it won't be the tool that the WoWzers use.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Jett-Rinn

[AlpsStranger]

That actually isn't true. Georg said very clearly that's not the case. They're just rewriting the combat log to make it better, not holding it out because they're afraid your feelings might get hurt.

 

They've more or less said they are doing addons as well. This camp gets a ***** every time there is a new MMORPG and they are usually disappointed. Bioware knows that raiders and hardcore players are a reliable paycheck. They also know that the number of players who will quit over this is minimal at worst. We'll have something like recount eventually. It's a *when* thing, not an *if* thing.

 

It's just like the people that honestly thought DADT was permanent or that gay marriage will be held off for more than another decade or two.

Edited December 21, 2011 by AlpsStranger

[Myls]

While it was nice to have a damage meter in "other" mmos, I felt that the meters, your overall gear number became such a hassle to keep up with that it made the game less fun

and you being focusing on your damage meter and not paying attention to whats happening under your feet..

 

I'd much rather have someone in my raid thats going to show up and stay out of fire, listen and learn than someone who's going to top the dps charts but also top most healed because they couldn't mind their surroundings.

[Bigguyonarock]

Dear Conscience,

 

The moment you take your DPS meter into the public and try to form groups with people who have a different mindset than you and who are enjoying the game the way they enjoy it, and you start kicking people from groups for not meeting your expectations is when you are forcing your views on other people.

 

No cool.

 

Signed,

Sanity.

 

Dear...

 

Ah hell, I can't keep that up.

 

I can't magically deduce who makes the effort to understand how their class works and who doesn't.

 

I try to be patient and I try to be respectful. If I can carry them I will. That one time.

 

But if I'm the one forming the group, then it is my group.

 

I'm not going to pretend there aren't people who respond more aggressively than I do when a player doesn't meet their expectations.

 

I wish some players had a little more patience and took the time to teach. But I also wish other players took the time to learn and didn't become hyper-defensive when you try to help them understand that as a smuggler, you're going to want to maintain your energy above 60% instead of blowing it all in the first 5 seconds and not using your energy CD.

 

There are consequences for your actions. Take responsibility for the fact that the way you're playing is significantly less than the optimum method for your class. And in an environment where you're cooperating with other people to achieve a goal, not trying your best ****s them over.

 

I don't see how people can consider more information and feedback a bad thing.

 

This fear of accountability and acceptance of mediocrity is completely alien to me. I just don't understand it.

 

Edit: By you, I don't mean you. I'm just speaking in general terms here.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Bigguyonarock

[klinesmoker]

Dear Conscience,

 

The moment you take your DPS meter into the public and try to form groups with people who have a different mindset than you and who are enjoying the game the way they enjoy it, and you start kicking people from groups for not meeting your expectations is when you are forcing your views on other people.

 

Not cool.

 

Signed,

Sanity.

 

You do realize that when a player is functioning on a substandard level they are directly creating their own negative impact on the entire group/raid?

 

That is an equivalent level of "jerkness" that you cannot conveniently ignore. Moreover, you're arguing that people have a right to play the game they want to play and yet here you are saying people playing the way they want to play by creating a standard is incorrect?

 

Hypocrisy.

[Yfelsung]

No I don't underestimate modders considering that I have written many mods in my life. But using the information for unintended purposes is exactly why Bioware is keeping it off right now IMO.

 

Bioware isn't stupid they do not want to piss off all the subscribers who are tired of such tools being used to degrade and insult others...look at the stance they have taken on the forums; in game will not be any different. They will come up with a medium but it won't be the tool that the WoWzers use.

 

I am curious as to what force it is that prevents you from not playing with people who use DPS meters in other MMOs?

 

Mystical force?

 

Divine?

 

Physical duress?

 

Which?

[AlpsStranger]

I'd much rather have someone in my raid thats going to show up and stay out of fire, listen and learn than someone who's going to top the dps charts but also top most healed because they couldn't mind their surroundings.

 

Ah, this false dichotomy again. Never actually seen this out there playing. Usually the "in the fire guy" isn't so good at DPS either.

[Jett-Rinn]

That actually isn't true. Georg said very clearly that's not the case. They're just rewriting the combat log to make it better, not holding it out because they're afraid your feelings might get hurt.

 

Yeah a lot of us have been asking for a link to that conversation where he specifically says that.

 

So far nothing other than some vague remarks made at SDCC

[Kineticks]

Good raiders both avoid mechanics and put out respectable dps/healing/threat numbers...i hate the fact that people somehow think maintaining a rotation and surviving are mutually exclusive.

[Sentryx]

Yes, because no one plays multiple genres of games.

 

Impossible. Once you sign up as an MMO player, all other genres are locked from you.

 

We must maintain glorious genre purity.

 

You want to know the sad part?

 

That thought actually made it all the way from inception, through your logic center, through your language center, out your fingers, into your computer AND you hit the submit button.

 

That's what makes me sad, right there.

 

What is sad is people who come to a game that does not suit their liking and instead of moving on, they expect the game to conform to their standards. You adapt to the world around you, the world does not adapt to you.

[Jett-Rinn]

I am curious as to what force it is that prevents you from not playing with people who use DPS meters in other MMOs?

 

Mystical force?

 

Divine?

 

Physical duress?

 

Which?

 

Nothing actually the people I play with don't use them, my concern is a bit more board for the overall health of the community...but you bring up a good point Bioware could just disable the log or such meters in PUGs.

 

[dcarterwww]

It’s already been said already, but BioWare doesn’t have to develop anything, as soon as combat logs are made available there will be parsing.

 

It doesn’t matter what people think or don’t think, eventually that will be made available…not having a combat log would be an idiotic thing to do because it tells so much information outside of just making some form of a dps meter.

 

And I have to agree with what someone said above ‘People are just scared to be told your bad at a video game’. Face it if a group kicks you because maybe you do “poor” dps then they should and have every right to kick you. Why should a group that expects ‘X’ amount of damage output be subject to less than what they expect. People on here always talk about playing with like minded people, so shouldn’t those “dps hatin’ people do the same.

 

One way or another it will be here and once it comes the forums will be a very fun place to be 

[Caelrie]

 

I'd much rather have someone in my raid thats going to show up and stay out of fire, listen and learn than someone who's going to top the dps charts but also top most healed because they couldn't mind their surroundings.

 

That's a false dilemma. You can't top the meters if you're dead, so the best players are doing everything you want AND playing their class well too.

[Yfelsung]

What is sad is people who come to a game that does not suit their liking and instead of moving on, they expect the game to conform to their standards. You adapt to the world around you, the world does not adapt to you.

 

One of the things that has caused human kind to become the dominate species on the planet is the fact that we can now adapt the world around us.

 

You know, houses in cold places and the like.

 

Human civilization.

 

That thing we came up with one time when our ancestors walked out of Africa and settled int the middle east.

 

Farming, remember that one?

 

Animal husbandry, that was a hoot, wasn't it?

 

Air conditioning.

 

Portable heaters.

 

THE DISCOVERY OF FIRE.

 

Remember those ones?

 

Do you have a brain shunt that bypasses the thinking part of the brain?

Edited December 21, 2011 by Yfelsung

[Jett-Rinn]

.

 

One way or another it will be here and once it comes the forums will be a very fun place to be 

 

If it dose the fourms will remain the same; the Moderators don't play and the price for acting jerkish on either side of the issue is very high indeed.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Jett-Rinn

[Buur]

I'd much rather have someone in my raid thats going to show up and stay out of fire, listen and learn than someone who's going to top the dps charts but also top most healed because they couldn't mind their surroundings.

 

You act like there are only 2 choices. Bad dpser who listens, or good dps who isn't mindful of his surroundings.

 

Would you rather have:

 

a) Guy who shows up, stays out of fire, does great damage because he has tools available to optimize his dps.

 

b) Guy who shows up, stays out of fire, does terrible damage but is an agreeable person.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Buur

[Yfelsung]

Nothing actually the people I play with don't use them, my concern is a bit more board for the overall health of the community...but you bring up a good point Bioware could just disable the log or such meters in PUGs.

 

 

Better yet, they could give people this thing called an "ignore" function, and they could ignore someone who spams dps meters.

 

I know, I know, CRAZY TALK.

 

That's me, insane Yfelsung.

[GalacticKegger]

hwg again... Damage meters versus combat logs as far which is a must-have in raids and which is just a size comparison tool has officially been pummeled into submission in numerous other threads. Good gawd people are interesting!

[BubbleDncr]

I'm a newbie and this is my reasoning for wanting a damage meter:

 

I'm playing as a dps class, so I should have a high damage per second. But I have no idea what that is for me, or if I'm doing things right.

 

If there was a dps meter, I could find out my dps per second, check the forums and see what most people of my class/level were getting, and then use that to see what I'm doing right or wrong.

[Caelrie]

Yeah a lot of us have been asking for a link to that conversation where he specifically says that.

 

So far nothing other than some vague remarks made at SDCC

 

I'm doing my best to find it, but Darth Hater is being uncooperative and doesn't seem to be hosting the audio file anymore. I'll keep looking for you.

[Pokeytehpenguin]

Dear...

 

Ah hell, I can't keep that up.

 

I can't magically deduce who makes the effort to understand how their class works and who doesn't.

 

I try to be patient and I try to be respectful. If I can carry them I will. That one time.

 

But if I'm the one forming the group, then it is my group.

 

I'm not going to pretend there aren't people who respond more aggressively than I do when a player doesn't meet their expectations.

 

I wish some players had a little more patience and took the time to teach. But I also wish other players took the time to learn and didn't become hyper-defensive when you try to help them understand that as a smuggler, you're going to want to maintain your energy above 60% instead of blowing it all in the first 5 seconds and not using your energy CD.

 

There are consequences for your actions. Take responsibility for the fact that the way you're playing is significantly less than the optimum method for your class. And in an environment where you're cooperating with other people to achieve a goal, not trying your best ****s them over.

 

I don't see how people can consider more information and feedback a bad thing.

 

This fear of accountability and acceptance of mediocrity is completely alien to me. I just don't understand it.

 

Edit: By you, I don't mean you. I'm just speaking in general terms here.

 

^ This.

[Jett-Rinn]

I'm doing my best to find it, but Darth Hater is being uncooperative and doesn't seem to be hosting the audio file anymore. I'll keep looking for you.

 

Cool a lot of us were discussing that this morning on Google and if there is a discrepancy I think both sides deserve clarification on the issue.

[Sentryx]

One of the thinks that has caused human kind to become the dominate species on the planet is the fact that we can now adapt the world around us.

 

You know, houses in cold places and the like.

 

Human civilization.

 

That thing we came up with one time when our ancestors walked out of Africa and settled int the middle east.

 

Farming, remember that one?

 

Animal husbandry, that was a hoot, wasn't it?

 

Air conditioning.

 

Portable heaters.

 

THE DISCOVERY OF FIRE.

 

Remember those ones?

 

Those are examples of us adapting to the world, not the other way around. We invented air conditioning to cope with hot weather, we did not in fact make the weather in that region cooler, same as the others. Fire was a discovery not an invention of man, it is a tool we use to help us adapt.