lol bolster

[Slurmez]

No they should not, and this is exactly what is broken in many MMO PVP. Warhammer was disastrously broken in PVP because of gear gaps, and Hickman knows this full and well. It basically destroyed the game. Imagine having characters in the game that can take on 5-6 other people quite easily, and how this will deflate the fun for virtually anyone trying to compete.

 

Rift had similar issues, and desperately tried to fix them - and never really accomplished this. You had RR80 people instantly killing RR40 people that did nothing wrong other than try to play the game as it was intended to be played. They lost hundreds of thousands of players because of the insane gear gap between new max level players, and existing ones. This of course was FUN for the RR80's, stomping face of the newbs. But it drove off important paying customers.

 

SWTOR had a huge issue with gear gap and level early on. Remember? Some folks rushed to 50, and were placed in warzones with level 10's. It was not pretty, and drove off legions of customers. It is one of the reasons I quite the game early on, and I guarantee hundreds of thousands quit for this reason. They added in a bracket for 50's which solved PART of the issue. But the bolster still was not effective enough to compensate. I suspect the reason for the rage right now is a lot of people that were used to stomping face, aren't doing it any longer. People that relied on gear to faceroll, aren't facerolling anymore, and are angry.

 

A lot of hack-like guilds with premades are having immense trouble facerolling in 50+ PVP right now. On my server it was hilarious to watch 'Smell my Finger' get their arses handed to them all last night in 50+ PVP. Where the bolster is effective, and working. However these same guys were destroying pre-50 PVP last night because they 'abused' the naked mechanics. The answer to cheaters like this is a 'normalization', and then skill becomes a primary factor, and people feel SATISFIED over battles. When it is gear based, people don't feel satisfied because there are always kiddies that mini-max gear to take advantage of others.

 

Guildwars2 and other MMO's are setting the standard with normalized PVP and Cosmetic gear advances. Putting the fun and challenge back into PVP by making it skill based, rather than gear based.

 

The gear gap in warhammer was incredibly small until the idiotic sovereign redesigns and doomflayer and warpforged armours and that had nothing to do with the games failings whatsoever, the damage was done a long time prior and was mostly down to the oversimplification of the game.

 

Courting all these ADD kiddies who want it all now is a TERRIBLE strategy because they want it now, get it, get bored and move on to the next shiny thing on the horizon. People need to grow and become invested in their characters to be retained. Hickman has a long track record of failure and for some reason gets rewarded for it, only bankers, politicians and game developers have this power.

[adiedude]

The idea of an MMO is progression. By putting everyone on a level playing field it makes every effort seem pointless.

 

By bolstering stats it just seems as if my countless hours grinding for new gear has been wasted. Why should lower levels even have the opportunity to play with the higher levels? They should work their way up and PVP in brackets as everyone does. I had to work my way up and never complained, I didn't want everything handed to me on a plate.

 

I enjoyed it, the progression. It was a part of the experience. Giving everyone the same stats it seems as though now all the effort people have put into PVP has been for nothing.

 

Thanks for that.

[Glower]

I have to say, on the second day it is not funny anymore...

[Kovaos]

So, my question to you is this... Where is the PVP PROGRESSION now? In my view, it has been removed from the game. IMO, level 10's with no head item *should* get owned in PVP. In the current system, level 10s are wrecking balls.

 

/sigh

 

Read man. Not all level 10's can wear a head piece so they get a bolstered stat to put them on an even (well, supposed to be) playing field. There is no PvP proression pre-50. Pre-50 PvP is about learning how to use your toon and have some fun along the way. If you want PvP progression ding 55 plz.

[SpaniardInfinity]

So, my question to you is this... Where is the PVP PROGRESSION now? In my view, it has been removed from the game. IMO, level 10's with no head item *should* get owned in PVP. In the current system, level 10s are wrecking balls.

 

Why do we have brackets now? Answer: We have brackets now because you didn't want players to see naked level 10s owning fully geared 55s, and thus instantly figure out that bolster is terrible. That's exactly what would happen with no brackets. You'd have naked level 10s getting 1 million ++ damage in a WZ.

 

Honestly, bolster is the enemy of character progression, and it needs to go! Progression should mean something in the game.

 

Trouble is, you'll have two groups which will never agree on it. One group wants progression (read: gear gap) the other wants a level playing field. I personally think a gear gap is counter-productive to competition, but I could care less one way or the other. You can give me the gear or I'll get it through grinding -- I'm going to get it one way or another.

 

The fact is, progression doesn't necessarily need to come from gear. I mean, let's face it, the difference between WH and EWH for the last update cycle was a joke. Yeah, it's an upgrade. But call it progression? No, it's more like I have commendations, I might as well spend them on getting +1 Power for a .06 increase in my bonus healing since there's nothing else to spend it on. Plus, if you have one character that was fully geared, progression wasn't even necessary. You could flat out grind up the gear on your main, stick it in legacy gear, and instantly be min-max'd on Day 1 of Level 50. How's that for progression, eh?

 

They're pretty much damned if you do, damned if you don't. Both systems are flawed. And the previous system didn't work, so now we're trying this one. It could work, but then again it might not. One think which would help is if there were more exclusive PvP items (and not just reskins, Bioware -- I've seen what micro-transactions did to hat-happy Valve, don't do this.) Make Valor meaningful again -- maybe add levels. Make gear which requires it that have small upgrades (or maybe even different set bonuses). One idea I saw a while ago is if you have a certain Valor or Rank, if the game detects you are about to kill someone (the game already does this -- this is why you cannot attack someone who is about to be killed by an in-progress attack with travel time) it plays a special animation. More mounts. Titles and achievements are a fun start, and I hope it's just the beginning in that department.

 

 

I also liked the comment about no brackets with Lv10s beating Lv55. It would be such great poetic justice to see that happen after Battlemaster-geared 50s crushed lowbies before there were brackets in the first months of the game. Besides, how the hell do you lose to someone that only has 10 abilities and no interrupt?

 

Edited April 10, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[adiedude]

/sigh

 

Read man. Not all level 10's can wear a head piece so they get a bolstered stat to put them on an even (well, supposed to be) playing field. There is no PvP proression pre-50. Pre-50 PvP is about learning how to use your toon and have some fun along the way. If you want PvP progression ding 55 plz.

 

I think the issue is, why should level 10's even get to PVP with level 50's?

They should have their own bracket and work their way up like everyone has to.

It's part of the game it's part of the experience.

 

When I first started I wanted to improve, get better look for better gear that would help me in PVP, explore the story. I think bolstering and putting everyone on the same level will just negate all the effort the level 50's have had to put in.

 

That's my issue more than anything.

[Ovan_Oh-One]

I think the issue is, why should level 10's even get to PVP with level 50's?

They should have their own bracket and work their way up like everyone has to.

It's part of the game it's part of the experience.

 

When I first started I wanted to improve, get better look for better gear that would help me in PVP, explore the story. I think bolstering and putting everyone on the same level will just negate all the effort the level 50's have had to put in.

 

That's my issue more than anything.

 

Because the effort the 50s put in is now worth jack****. That's the nature of expansions. Hit 55, gg.

[Kovaos]

I think the issue is, why should level 10's even get to PVP with level 50's?

They should have their own bracket and work their way up like everyone has to.

It's part of the game it's part of the experience.

 

When I first started I wanted to improve, get better look for better gear that would help me in PVP, explore the story. I think bolstering and putting everyone on the same level will just negate all the effort the level 50's have had to put in.

 

That's my issue more than anything.

 

It was my understanding there would be in a different bracket. I read there would be a 10-29 and a 30-54 bracket. Not sure what happened to that or if I missed an update somewhere along the way.

[Heezdedjim]

So, my question to you is this... Where is the PVP PROGRESSION now? In my view, it has been removed from the game. IMO, level 10's with no head item *should* get owned in PVP. In the current system, level 10s are wrecking balls.

This game has none now, and it never did. Until it has an actual global leaderboard where all players and teams are ranked against each other by their k/d and w/l records and all the other usual stats, there is no progression. Progression is not grinding out shinies so you can faceroll noobs. Progression is getting to the top of the hill, and beating off everyone else who tries to take your place. It starts with having everyone on a dead level playing field, so that skill and skill alone determines how far and how fast you can move up the ranks.

 

The people who think progression in PvP means grinding out roflstomp gear sets are the ones who can't compete without that crutch and never will. This mindset, and games that pander to it, are why nobody who actually wants hardcore, competitive PvP wastes their time playing a game like TOR for PvP.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Heezdedjim

[Darth_Vampirius]

/sigh

 

Read man. Not all level 10's can wear a head piece so they get a bolstered stat to put them on an even (well, supposed to be) playing field. There is no PvP proression pre-50. Pre-50 PvP is about learning how to use your toon and have some fun along the way. If you want PvP progression ding 55 plz.

#1 I already knew this.

#2 Do you have a point?

#3 Don't tell me what to do!

[adiedude]

Because the effort the 50s put in is now worth jack****. That's the nature of expansions. Hit 55, gg.

 

Yes sir, it seems that way. Which is fine, however I just thoroughly enjoyed things how they were. it seems as though these changes are detrimental for existing level 50 players and also for new players just starting, it doesn't give them anything to strive for, other than completing the story mode.

 

It doesn't give them a good indication of gear and stats.

They'll think Green armor at level 10 is as bad *** as it gets.

 

Just my two cents, may be completely wrong though and the majority may actually love these changes.

[Kovaos]

#1 I already knew this.

#2 Do you have a point?

#3 Don't tell me what to do!

 

Yes, the point is there is no progression pre-55. There hasn't been, and there won't be.

 

Before 2.0 I have NEVER had a problem with any class pre-50. I have always, and several others, been able to compete no matter what level I am. Personally, I don't believe a level 10 should be in the same WZ with a level 54. There is going to be a crazy ability gap.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Kovaos

[Atramar]

Yes, the point is there is no progression pre-55. There hasn't been, and there won't be.

 

Before 2.0 I have NEVER had a problem with any class pre-50. I have always, and several others, been able to compete no matter what level I am. Personally, I don't believe a level 10 should be in the same WZ with a level 54. There is going to be a crazy ability gap.

 

brackets are 10-29,30-54,55,55 ranked

[Darth_Vampirius]

Yes, the point is there is no progression pre-55. There hasn't been, and there won't be.

 

Before 2.0 I have NEVER had a problem with any class pre-50. I have always, and several others, been able to compete no matter what level I am. Personally, I don't believe a level 10 should be in the same WZ with a level 54. There is going to be a crazy ability gap.

 

You don't get it. The gap works the opposite way now, and that's the problem. Ability? Gear? PVP experience? NONE of that matters now. ALL that matters is BOLSTER.

 

Honestly, bolster has always annoyed me, but this latest push is the worst thing I have seen since MMOs were invented.

[Kovaos]

You don't get it. The gap works the opposite way now, and that's the problem. Ability? Gear? PVP experience? NONE of that matters now. ALL that matters is BOLSTER.

 

Honestly, bolster has always annoyed me, but this latest push is the worst thing I have seen since MMOs were invented.

 

I get it, but I believe the system is not working as intended right now. The last BW update stated the bolster in the 55 bracket will not put someone up to par with the Partisan/Conquerer tier.

 

Pre-50 PvP needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Hopefully it gets fixed soon.

[Darth_Vampirius]

I get it, but I believe the system is not working as intended right now. The last BW update stated the bolster in the 55 bracket will not put someone up to par with the Partisan/Conquerer tier.

 

Pre-50 PvP needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Hopefully it gets fixed soon.

So, 54 levels of broken PVP is fine?

 

Edit: Rephrase-- 54 levels of guaranteed broken PVP is fine, as long as there is a chance it might be fixed at 55?

Edited April 10, 2013 by Darth_Vampirius

[Malkavier]

Simple solution to these problems: Remove both the broken Resolve and Bolster systems completely, then refine the brackets even more.

[Darth_Vampirius]

Simple solution to these problems: Remove both the broken Resolve and Bolster systems completely, then refine the brackets even more.

 

.signed

[Kovaos]

So, 54 levels of broken PVP is fine?

 

Edit: Rephrase-- 54 levels of guaranteed broken PVP is fine, as long as there is a chance it might be fixed at 55?

 

No it's not fine at all. However, I'm a fan of the "bolster" concept, just not the current implementation. What bolster should be doing is putting people pre-55 on a very similar playing field.

 

I hope it doesn't stay broken. I love rolling alts and PvPing with each of them.

[Kovaos]

Simple solution to these problems: Remove both the broken Resolve and Bolster systems completely, then refine the brackets even more.

 

You would need a bracket system with this solution. Even if they reverted to the old system and kept the 10-49 bracket what happens with the players that are 50-54?

Edited April 10, 2013 by Kovaos

[Darth_Vampirius]

No it's not fine at all. However, I'm a fan of the "bolster" concept, just not the current implementation. What bolster should be doing is putting people pre-55 on a very similar playing field.

 

I hope it doesn't stay broken. I love rolling alts and PvPing with each of them.

Putting people on a similar playing field, regardless of gear, level, unlocked skills, and talents?

 

So, in other words, it takes all the RPG elements out of PVP, and makes it more like an FPS, only with slower and less precise combat. With Bolster, you may as well go play a shooting game.

[Kovaos]

Putting people on a similar playing field, regardless of gear, level, unlocked skills, and talents?

 

So, in other words, it takes all the RPG elements out of PVP, and makes it more like an FPS, only with slower and less precise combat. With Bolster, you may as well go play a shooting game.

 

Pre-55 yes to all your questions. There should not be any type of PvP progression until you cap your level and work towards end game.

[painterwhit]

Getting 2 or 3-shot is not a fun pvp experience. Likewise, most people that pvp with any regularity, will also agree that 2 or 3-shotting someone isn't really fun either. There is no competition in that.

 

Pvp is simply not fun atm, and if it's not fixed soon, you will most likely see a lot of people leaving this game. As it stands right now I refuse to do ANY wzs period....and they take up probably around 70-75% of my time playing this game normally. I've been a continued subscriber since day 2 of early access, and I love SWTOR, but it's PvE content is not enough to keep me playing. My sub is up in less than 2 weeeks. If they do not have a reasonable solution by then I will be moving on to something else.

[fungihoujo]

What bolster should do is give you bonus stats that are determined by your level and make up for differences in gear.

 

A level 22 in level 22 greens should be equal to a 54 in 54 greens, a 33 in 33 purples to a 48 in 48 purples. Basically- no matter what level you are, if you're in purples with augments suitable for that level, you should be equal to anyone else in purples/augments for their level.

 

Problem now is- the system straight up makes zero sense.

[Boch]

Putting people on a similar playing field, regardless of gear, level, unlocked skills, and talents?

 

 

Yes a thousand times this

 

 

So, in other words, it takes all the RPG elements out of PVP, and makes it more like an FPS, only with slower and less precise combat. With Bolster, you may as well go play a shooting game.

 

You don't, every class is different. But not getting stomped or doing the stomping because of the gear is so much better. Last night I played more back and forth matches than I ever have. It was the most fun I've ever had in PvP outside balanced ranked matches. Yes there are some bugs but they are not that bad if you gear/ ungear right. I would rather 16 naked balance pvp Where strat>skill>class>gear then PvP where gear is king.