What's the verdict on Shadow in 2.0? I'm afraid......

[UltimateKrucible]

It's hard to get a clear picture - so can anyone detail exactly what's going to be left for us Shadows after 2.0?

 

I was over in the Assassin forum and there's a lot of complaints that our classes are dropping into the lowest tier of DPS for both PvP and PvE once the patch hits.

 

Does anyone have a clear explanation where this is coming from? What nerfs we're getting?

 

And has anyone who went onto the PTS got an idea of a good build?

[Rocktarr]

Dont mind. Nobody can say that yet. I think lots of things will change as soon as you get good gear in the addon!

People try talent trees with their 1.7 gear and that means they just have about 15% crit and stats like turtles.

I´ts alot about percentage in the addon and that will be a huge profit as soon as you get good gear.

[KeyboardNinja]

Hybrids

 

Not viable at all anymore. Or at least, it doesn't appear that any of them work even in PvP. Full-tree builds appear to be the way to go.

 

Kinetic Combat

 

Buffed to the yard and back. The changes to shield have a particularly strong effect on shadow tanking, which gives the class a distinct design advantage over the other two tanks in terms of damage mitigation. Armor was reduced by a fair amount, which makes shadow tanks significant more spiky in 2.0 than they were in 1.x. They also require a lot more care and management from a player perspective to achieve optimal results. Battle Readiness was buffed significantly and is now one of the best defensive cooldowns in the game, and the Kinetic rotation was streamlined and buffed such that its single target threat is almost godlike.

 

Verdict: Increased skill ceiling, both for tank and healer, but overall significantly buffed relative to the other tanks.

 

Infiltration

 

Ehhhhh... Essentially still the same class, without any significant alterations. The main difference is that Force Breach now requires full stacks. This results in delayed burst, since the standard 1.x opener (CS -> CS -> Proj -> FB) no longer works. Force regeneration has been smoothed slightly, and sustained damage is up overall. Combat dummy parses are low, however. The developers have (quite correctly) pointed out that Infiltration is heavily dependent on its execute abilities and talents to achieve target DPS. It remains to be seen if this brings them in line with the other DPS classes.

 

Verdict: Smoother and more coherent spec, but still a bit low on the DPS side. Hard to say exactly how it stacks up.

 

Balance

 

If you played balance in 1.x, you are going to be very, very disappointed. Balance has been significantly simplified in several ways. First off, the Project proc has been removed, and thus the ability is gone from even the situational rotation. Second, Find Weakness has been moved high into the Infiltration tree, out of reach of Balance spec, meaning that Balance cannot use Shadow Strike at all. These changes combine to make 2.0 balance playstyle an essentially pure DoT spec. Force management is also much tighter in 2.0 due to the removal of the regen procs on Force Suppression. Saber Strike tends to be used significantly more frequently. Like Infiltration, Balance has a tendency to parse below average on a combat dummy. Also like Infiltration, Balance is heavily dependent on execute talents. In fact, Balance is probably the most dependent on executes and raid buffs of any class in the game. Thus, it is likely that Balance DPS is roughly even with the other damage dealing classes in an actual boss fight, but it remains to be seen.

 

Verdict: Much lower skill ceiling than in 1.x, and viable DPS. Hard to say exactly how it stacks up in an actual boss fight.

Edited April 6, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[Kitru]

Force management is also much tighter in 2.0 due to the removal of the regen procs on Force Suppression.

 

They removed Force Suppression but replaced it with Rippling Force, which provides you with additional Force whenever you get a Force Technique proc (along with additional damage on the proc itself). This actually makes Force management *better* in reality since you're no longer going to have to deal with your Force Suppression stacks getting eaten by other classes' DoTs (which wouldn't provide you with Force unless they were consumed by you). I can't find the specific amount provided, but, iirc, when I did the math during the PTS, it provided more over time than Force Suppression currently does.

[KeyboardNinja]

They removed Force Suppression but replaced it with Rippling Force, which provides you with additional Force whenever you get a Force Technique proc (along with additional damage on the proc itself). This actually makes Force management *better* in reality since you're no longer going to have to deal with your Force Suppression stacks getting eaten by other classes' DoTs (which wouldn't provide you with Force unless they were consumed by you). I can't find the specific amount provided, but, iirc, when I did the math during the PTS, it provided more over time than Force Suppression currently does.

 

The third-party stack consumption is definitely a concern, though it's really only an issue if you're running with a TK sage (since other specs have FiB of their own that you can steal), and then only with a few charges (less than a third). In any case, let's ignore that for the moment and look at Sharpened Mind vs Rippling Force.

 

Sharpened Mind grants 20 Force once every 15 seconds, for a net regen benefit of 1.33/sec. (again, assuming no third-party stack consumption) The benefit of Rippling Force depends on the number of attacks per second. This value is extremely high for a Balance shadow (especially in 2.0), due to the combination of melee flurry attacks and multiple DoTs. As a rough estimate, we'll say 2 attacks per second. The proc chance on Force Technique in a given GCD is precisely (1 - (1 - 0.5)^(1.5 * 2)) = 0.875, which is to say that we will average 1.14 GCDs between procs, which is 1.71 seconds. Rippling Force gives precisely 1 Force every time it procs, which is a 100% chance on Force Technique. Thus, Rippling Force grants 1 / 1.71 = 0.58/sec regeneration benefit. That's more than 56% less regeneration than is granted by Sharpened Mind, *and* it's RNG based rather than a predictable burst.

 

Even if we assume a TK sage is stealing stacks without providing commensurate remuneration from their own Force in Balance, things still work out in favor of Sharpened Mind. On average, suppression stacks will be consumed by a shadow's own DoTs at a minimum rate of 0.67/sec. For simplicity, we will ignore Mind Crush on both sides. A TK sage will consume stacks at a rate of 0.33/sec, for a net consumption rate of 1/sec. On average, 3.33 stacks will be lost to the TK sage, which is a net regeneration loss of 0.444/sec. That brings the overall regeneration down to 0.89/sec, which is still dramatically higher than Rippling Force's 0.58/sec contribution. We can add Mind Crush back into the picture, but I'm pretty sure it will end up working out to *improve* the shadow regeneration since a Balance shadow will get the proc on Mind Crush much more frequently than the TK sage will finish the cooldown. Thus, the net benefit is to the shadow over a long fight.

 

So, unless I did something wrong in the above, I'm going to stand by my assertion that the force management is nerfed in 2.0. I mean, it's better than it was in the early PTS patches (by a long shot), but we're still going to have to use Saber Strike a lot more frequently than in 1.x, especially when you account for the fact that Double Strike costs more than a Shadow Strike with the Find Weakness proc and Force in Balance now costs more than it used to.

Edited April 6, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[Phesojss]

I have been playing a Balance Shadow more than a tear now and enjoyed it. The detriment of force cost to use shadow strike as a DPS stealth class ( at the end of the PTS) is bewildering. A.P.'s concept for this skill tree may be easier, might be competitive on the very lowest tier of DPS for an Ops, the "fun" will have disappeared for me. I will predict that at least 2/3's of the current L 50 Balance Shadows switch to Kinetic, infiltration, hybrid or an alt.

 

My plan is just to go with the full tank spec on my shadow and play my scoundrel as DF spec ( good job in the DF design.) Amazing how another Stealth dot spec has been made more viable and fun, without losing the core abilities. Back-blast still has a solid place in the DF Scoundrel rotation.

 

A Shadow cannot lose viable access to shadow strike ( yes it CAN be used in 2.0, but it is like striking your self in the foot with out the old infiltration tactics proc) There needs to be a skill in the balance tree ( tier 4 or so ) that procs on a crit dot that allows a reduced cost Shadow strike ( small damage buff would also be appropriate.) Essentially something to replace the function of infiltration tactics only off a dot crit.

 

As it stands now with 2.0 ( from the end of PTS) Balance shadows will be low DPS and not as enjoyable to play for the existing Balance shadows as 1.7. Austin P. this is your Vision, it hurts the advanced class and it will drive players away scratching their heads,

[RolHai]

The third-party stack consumption is definitely a concern, though it's really only an issue if you're running with a TK sage (since other specs have FiB of their own that you can steal), and then only with a few charges (less than a third). In any case, let's ignore that for the moment and look at Sharpened Mind vs Rippling Force.

 

Sharpened Mind grants 20 Force once every 15 seconds, for a net regen benefit of 1.33/sec. (again, assuming no third-party stack consumption) The benefit of Rippling Force depends on the number of attacks per second. This value is extremely high for a Balance shadow (especially in 2.0), due to the combination of melee flurry attacks and multiple DoTs. As a rough estimate, we'll say 2 attacks per second. The proc chance on Force Technique in a given GCD is precisely (1 - (1 - 0.5)^(1.5 * 2)) = 0.875, which is to say that we will average 1.14 GCDs between procs, which is 1.71 seconds. Rippling Force gives precisely 1 Force every time it procs, which is a 100% chance on Force Technique. Thus, Rippling Force grants 1 / 1.71 = 0.58/sec regeneration benefit. That's more than 56% less regeneration than is granted by Sharpened Mind, *and* it's RNG based rather than a predictable burst.

 

Even if we assume a TK sage is stealing stacks without providing commensurate remuneration from their own Force in Balance, things still work out in favor of Sharpened Mind. On average, suppression stacks will be consumed by a shadow's own DoTs at a minimum rate of 0.67/sec. For simplicity, we will ignore Mind Crush on both sides. A TK sage will consume stacks at a rate of 0.33/sec, for a net consumption rate of 1/sec. On average, 3.33 stacks will be lost to the TK sage, which is a net regeneration loss of 0.444/sec. That brings the overall regeneration down to 0.89/sec, which is still dramatically higher than Rippling Force's 0.58/sec contribution. We can add Mind Crush back into the picture, but I'm pretty sure it will end up working out to *improve* the shadow regeneration since a Balance shadow will get the proc on Mind Crush much more frequently than the TK sage will finish the cooldown. Thus, the net benefit is to the shadow over a long fight.

 

So, unless I did something wrong in the above, I'm going to stand by my assertion that the force management is nerfed in 2.0. I mean, it's better than it was in the early PTS patches (by a long shot), but we're still going to have to use Saber Strike a lot more frequently than in 1.x, especially when you account for the fact that Double Strike costs more than a Shadow Strike with the Find Weakness proc and Force in Balance now costs more than it used to.

 

Not do discount your awesome work KBN but I'm pretty sure that Rippling Force gives back 2 Force per proc as it's 1 force point back per talent point spent. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not a big Shadow player (an alt, transferred to the PTN among many other toons).

[UltimateKrucible]

Well, thanks for the replies - Kind of confirmed my worst fears though.

 

I'm currently playing a Hybrid balance build, which I guess isn't going to be viable in furure, and before that I was pure Balance but grew tired of the Dots-heavy build so am not going back to that.

I suppose that leaves infiltration? Don't fancy playing a tank as I've always envisioned the Shadow as a DPS kind of character. Two lightsaber blades and all that ........

 

Feels like we're getting a nerf tbh. Can't understand the thinking behind that - it's not as though we're in any way op when you look at focus/rage spec knights.

 

Is this just a case of the PvP devs saying 'You will play this spec the way we intended or not at all'?

[KeyboardNinja]

Not do discount your awesome work KBN but I'm pretty sure that Rippling Force gives back 2 Force per proc as it's 1 force point back per talent point spent. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not a big Shadow player (an alt, transferred to the PTN among many other toons).

 

I think it's just one point. Swtor spy never updated their skill calculator, so I had to go off of the patch notes. They claim that it's just one force point, not one per talent. This makes sense, since the talent is already affecting the probability of the proc (and thus the amount of expected regeneration).

[Kitru]

Is this just a case of the PvP devs saying 'You will play this spec the way we intended or not at all'?

 

I don't think the PvP devs had anything to do with the *major* changes to Balance. Peckenpaugh pretty much explicitly said that the reason Balance got changed so heavily was because of fundamental design decisions. Infiltration Tactics wasn't removed because it made Balance Shadows too good in PvP; it was removed because the devs didnt want any tier 1 abilities to fundamentally alter the manner in which a spec is played (i.e. adding a new ability to a rotation). My guess is that Force Suppression was removed because of all of the problems with external stack consumption (and how it negatively impacted Force management).

 

Pretty much the only one that I can think of that *was* PvP inspired was the change to Containment because they didn't want Shadows to be capable of solo capping nodes with Stealth CC and instant-Force Lift.

[Kitru]

The third-party stack consumption is definitely a concern, though it's really only an issue if you're running with a TK sage (since other specs have FiB of their own that you can steal), and then only with a few charges (less than a third). In any case, let's ignore that for the moment and look at Sharpened Mind vs Rippling Force.

 

I could've sworn that third party stack consumption was a bigger deal than you seem to make it out to be. It's been a while since I dealt with any Balance Shadows, so I might be wrong, but, iirc, any DoT will consume a Force Suppression charge, not just Consular DoTs and I don't think that consuming a Balance Sage's Force Suppression provides the same Force regen benefits. I remember a developer commenting on the issue of the DoT booster stack consumption by third parties (iirc, it referenced a DF Scoundrel having stacks consumed by a Pyro PT) and saying that it worked fine because it increased damage anyways.

 

So, unless I did something wrong in the above, I'm going to stand by my assertion that the force management is nerfed in 2.0.

 

The math looks right to me, but, like you, I couldn't find appropriate references (like up-to-date talent calculator) to get legitimate answers. The only thing I remember is actually doing said math back on the PTS and concluding that Rippling Force provided more than 20 Force every 15 seconds. I'm pretty sure that Rippling Force provides 2 Force per proc, at a rate of 1 per point (similar to other talents that create functionally multiplicative value by increase proc chance *and* proc effect), but I can't be entirely sure. If it *is* 2 Force (like I think it is), it's only *minutely* worse (1.75 per GCD rather than 2 per GCD) and damage got pretty well buffed (just look at everything else: 9% more DoT damage, bonus DoT and FiB damage during executes, Shadows got the previously Sage only increase to Mind Crush duration, Rippling Force and Expertise both increase Force Technique's proc damage even more) so it's not a major concern as I see it. Resource management might have gotten *slightly* worse, but overall damage got improved.

[Kitru]

A Shadow cannot lose viable access to shadow strike ( yes it CAN be used in 2.0, but it is like striking your self in the foot with out the old infiltration tactics proc) There needs to be a skill in the balance tree ( tier 4 or so ) that procs on a crit dot that allows a reduced cost Shadow strike ( small damage buff would also be appropriate.) Essentially something to replace the function of infiltration tactics only off a dot crit.

 

I was *very* surprised when they added a talent to Kinetic Combat to encourage use of Shadow Strike while simultaneously removing the (albeit, out of tree) talent that Balance needed in order to use Shadow Strike effectively without providing a simultaneous change to Balance to provide a talent that encourages its use. I realize from a design standpoint that it's not *necessary* to provide a viable use case for *every* ability in an AC's repertoire (just look at Mind Crush: only Balance Shadows use it), but I find it strange that they removed an ability that was a mainstay pre-2.0 without providing a viable replacement for the removed capability. It's even more amusing when you realize how little Shadow Wrap actually changes the overall playstyle of Kinetic Combat: they added a talent that does almost nothing (and actually ends up causing a minute decrease in total mitigation since it's less likely to proc PA and increase HS stack generation speed).

 

While I'm not sure whether it should be implemented now that Shadow Strike is going to have been removed from Balance's attack priority for a time, but I really do think that it's strange that the 2 fundamental Shadow "specialties" (Project and Shadow Strike; Shadow's Training increases the base damage on Project for Shadows and "Shadow Strike" is one of the few attacks that actually requires a DBLS) are both missing from Balance's priority. If it's proven that Balance isn't doing enough damage (like many people postulate will be true but a lot of people are still quite unsure about), I don't think it would be remiss for some talent to be added that puts Shadow Strike or Project back into the priority.

[Majspuffen]

Where were you people during the PTS? I suck at math and can only provide feedback based on feelings, and as such no one will probably bother to read anything I write. I am very upset with the changes to Balance, and I'm fairly sure that I will be playing something else in 2.0, which sucks. I play Balance for PvP, and I've had a blast with it. Very satisfying spec when you play it right. Very punishing when you play it wrong.

 

Made a thread about Shadow Strike that no one commented in :/ ... but I'll try post it here, see what people think:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=616695

[Kitru]

Where were you people during the PTS?

 

We were there and made most of these comments back then. Balance's major force management problems during the first phase of the PTS were one of the reasons why Rippling Force got changed (first to no longer count as a DoT since it was eating up Force Suppression charges and ended up lowering damage overall by taking it and secondly to provide the Force that was needed from the removal of Sharpened Mind). The DPS concerns are somewhat questionable since, as Peckenpaugh has mentioned, Shadow Balance DPS skyrockets during execute phases (15% increase to DoT and FiB damage sub-30%, combined with Spinning Strike allowance) so straight parses on dummies are pretty misleading.

 

Even concerning the loss of a talent to make Shadow Strike useful, it was mentioned rather prolifically on the PTS but the general concern was primarily that damage would now be terrible and secondarily that the attack priority would be more boring than before (Spinning>FiB>Sever>FB>MC>DS>SS). The damage concerns are questionable since there hasn't really been much in the way of real parses to check out and the "boring" concerns are qualitative (6 attacks is more than a number of other specs so /shrug).

[RolHai]

I think it's just one point. Swtor spy never updated their skill calculator, so I had to go off of the patch notes. They claim that it's just one force point, not one per talent. This makes sense, since the talent is already affecting the probability of the proc (and thus the amount of expected regeneration).

Well the patch notes Dulfy posted say 1 Force per Point for the talent so I would assume it means every rippling force proc restores 2 force back to the shadow, since the talent is a 2 point talent giving a 50/100% chance on Force Technique damage proccing.

 

Balance (Shadow)

The damage dealt by Rippling Force’s effect is no longer considered "periodic damage." Damage dealt by this skill has been significantly increased. When Rippling Force deals damage, it restores 1 Force per point to the Consular.

LINK

[Pheros]

Are there any additional comments on Infil's overall effectiveness in 2.0 PvP?

 

I just rolled a new shadow (surprisingly, just never played one before) and I'm having LOADS of fun as infiltration. I would be pretty darn sad if it ends up terrible.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Pheros

[KeyboardNinja]

I could've sworn that third party stack consumption was a bigger deal than you seem to make it out to be. It's been a while since I dealt with any Balance Shadows, so I might be wrong, but, iirc, any DoT will consume a Force Suppression charge, not just Consular DoTs and I don't think that consuming a Balance Sage's Force Suppression provides the same Force regen benefits. I remember a developer commenting on the issue of the DoT booster stack consumption by third parties (iirc, it referenced a DF Scoundrel having stacks consumed by a Pyro PT) and saying that it worked fine because it increased damage anyways.

 

It's just Sever Force, Weaken Mind and Mind Crush. The effect details for those abilities actually deal specifically with Force Suppression, and no periodic effects have that specialization. AP did mention FiB together with DF gunslingers because they have a similar weakness with Hemoraging Blast. However, only another smuggler's dots can consume HB stacks, just like only another consular's dots can consume FiB. I still think that this design point is a problem due to the Wounding Shots mechanic, but at least consulars don't really have to worry about it.

 

The math looks right to me, but, like you, I couldn't find appropriate references (like up-to-date talent calculator) to get legitimate answers. The only thing I remember is actually doing said math back on the PTS and concluding that Rippling Force provided more than 20 Force every 15 seconds. I'm pretty sure that Rippling Force provides 2 Force per proc, at a rate of 1 per point (similar to other talents that create functionally multiplicative value by increase proc chance *and* proc effect), but I can't be entirely sure. If it *is* 2 Force (like I think it is), it's only *minutely* worse (1.75 per GCD rather than 2 per GCD) and damage got pretty well buffed (just look at everything else: 9% more DoT damage, bonus DoT and FiB damage during executes, Shadows got the previously Sage only increase to Mind Crush duration, Rippling Force and Expertise both increase Force Technique's proc damage even more) so it's not a major concern as I see it. Resource management might have gotten *slightly* worse, but overall damage got improved.

 

Apparently it is two points, which is good since that makes it almost as good as Sharpened Mind. You may have assumed a higher hit-per-second rate when you did the math originally, which would push the value above FiB. In any case, they're close enough that I think balance concerns are mostly satisfied.

[PPAlien]

I could've sworn that third party stack consumption was a bigger deal than you seem to make it out to be. It's been a while since I dealt with any Balance Shadows, so I might be wrong, but, iirc, any DoT will consume a Force Suppression charge, not just Consular DoTs and I don't think that consuming a Balance Sage's Force Suppression provides the same Force regen benefits. I remember a developer commenting on the issue of the DoT booster stack consumption by third parties (iirc, it referenced a DF Scoundrel having stacks consumed by a Pyro PT) and saying that it worked fine because it increased damage anyways..

 

I've tested this external DoT buff consumption on the dummies (but not 2.0 yet) with members of my raid team, the only ones who consume your force suppression stacks are other consulars using DoTs. Not an issue for me as the only dps consular in the raid (got a sage healer to test it with some dots and they consumed it) but other classes dots had no effect on the stacks. But anyways, everything is changing tomorrow so I guess we'll see how we balance shadows go...and if it's bad all convert ourselves to tanks :-(

[Miggzy]

Are there any additional comments on Infil's overall effectiveness in 2.0 PvP?

 

I just rolled a new shadow (surprisingly, just never played one before) and I'm having LOADS of fun as infiltration. I would be pretty darn sad if it ends up terrible.

 

I Just started pvping on my lvl 50 shadow again because of the changes in bolster and Im having a lot of fun.

 

Once I re learned how to play it during my second match I immediately noticed how overpowered it seems to be. I play pvp all the time and play with nearly every class but since 2.0 have not noticed a huge buff to any of them (havent played my gunslinger yet but its always been super powerful) so I was kinda amazed at how I immediately felt like the spec was overpowered. I have been playing my concealment spec operative a lot and have actually noticed that it is much better then it was, but the shadow can burst things down easier, has better defense cooldowns and has force speed/knockback.

 

Having find weakness proc on demand using spinning kick or low slash is just perfect, giving so much more control to your burst. Also they buffed battle readiness, making it give you some health and buffed blackout, giving you 25% damage reduction for a short while. The force breach system changed for the worse but it adds a lot of complexity and if it wasnt changed would make the spec crazy powerful so its ok. Have not even gotten our teleport ability yet, coolest ability in the whole game!!

 

We have so many stuns and so many awesome abilities perfect for 1v1 like what i mentiioned plus our defense cooldowns, I know that this spec especially is in a great place right now. My only worry is that its going to get a nerf, but I think they are just gonna nerf the damage overall of all the classes in some way so it wont be to bad.

[Assillius]

its dead as a class. The only use of shadows left is infiltration and only in PVP since for PVE its too low sustainable dps. Balance is awful for both pve and pvp. Kinetic i dont lke the changes i think they broke shadow tank for PVE same as for PVP since now i do ~25%-30% less dmg since i have exactly the same abilities as i did in 1.7 31/2/8

SS cost more and does 30% less dmg, Project cost a bit less and does 30% less dmg. Also other skills didnt get buffed while HP of players increased by 20%-30%. I hope u understand what does it means. =(

 

My verdict is BW is GUILTY FOR MURDERING SHADOWS AS A CLASS. THE PUNISHMENT SHOULD BE DEATH PENALTY.

 

R.I.P OP Shadow 1.7.2

[stephenalandavie]

its dead as a class. The only use of shadows left is infiltration and only in PVP since for PVE its too low sustainable dps. Balance is awful for both pve and pvp. Kinetic i dont lke the changes i think they broke shadow tank for PVE same as for PVP since now i do ~25%-30% less dmg since i have exactly the same abilities as i did in 1.7 31/2/8

SS cost more and does 30% less dmg, Project cost a bit less and does 30% less dmg. Also other skills didnt get buffed while HP of players increased by 20%-30%. I hope u understand what does it means. =(

 

My verdict is BW is GUILTY FOR MURDERING SHADOWS AS A CLASS. THE PUNISHMENT SHOULD BE DEATH PENALTY.

 

R.I.P OP Shadow 1.7.2

 

In Pvp infiltration is exceptional for burst, That being said i only do pvp so it is literally all i care about. Some nice hybrids floating about to with balance and they do some nice mix of burst and sustained. obviously this is just based on warzones. And with the bolster broken still we won't know properly till loads are end game and trying it out.

[captindoom]

Shadows are bloody awesome now, a lot better than before.

[Leafy_Bug]

So we went on the PTS, played our classes, provided feedback to BioWare and they actually listened. I have played infiltration in pvp from the moment the new patch hit and as always tank in pve (i am main tank for my guild). For a long time infiltration players like myself have complained about the long time it took to stack up those 5 stacks of breach. You would practically get dizzy from all those clairvoyant strikes and in order to make a nice hit you would have to stack up on a jugg. Having said that, a few ideas from me about shadows in 2.0.

 

 

I am using my min/maxed dps gear with a nice 5 36 5 spec. I can add 3 points in technique mastery which finally gives me 9% armour penetration as well as 2 points in applied force. No more wasted points for upheaval and the results are quite nice. I did 1 million damage in a voidstar and it is nice to see that i have my burst on demand basically. No matter how you want to open, you will always proc something. In the past, the opener was very rigid and required a certain prerequisite. Now, you are more flexible and while the priority list does not feel as normal, i must say, it is a good change. Shadow strike, low slash and shadowstrike is insane.

 

 

BioWare took this spec in the right direction and the icing on the cake comes from potent shadows, phasewalk and , of course, judgement. 7k spinning strikes and phasewalk+force cloak reset on potency gives so much movement. Shadows are fun again and the fact that we are squishy is not relevant as before. We actually get to kill stuff fast and this is the price we pay.

 

 

A bit of an annoyance on Phasewalk. I was attacking 3-4 people, putting the phasewalk area in stealth behind them, attacking from a different angle, nuking down two, force cloaking, resetting potency nuking the third and then phasewalking to engage the 4th. Sadly, i phasewalked dead a few times cos that vicious throw killed me(5-8k hit) yet i teleported dead. Have you guys encountered this problem? Is it supposed to work this way?

Edited April 11, 2013 by Leafy_Bug

[Assillius]

Point is that almost all shadows here are PVP players since shadow suck for PVE, and almost all of them are in infiltration spec. Yes, infiltration did get a huge buff, second SS more dmg easier FB reduced cd on FP and its all awsome but again only for PVP since its the lowest dps in game. While other 2 specs got screwed up and they dont fit for PVP anymore. Balance doesnt fit evenfor PVE now. it is so terrible. Removing SS from Balance killed all fun and made that spec purely dot spec. And even with all those changes Balance remains THE LOWEST DPS SPEC IN GAME, besides Infiltration ofc, but as BW stated that Infiltration was designed only for PVP and nothing else.

So the only way to play shadow now is Inf for PVP and Tank for PVE. What if i dont like being a tank or going for Inf in PVP? I should /reroll? But shadw is my main how can I /reroll, I would rather quit the game till shadows will get any buff.

From the first patch shadows were been nerfedwith every each new patch and only infiltration was getting buffed coz at the start it was total waste. Now we can see that Infiltration is fine in PVP but sux in PVE and other specs sux in every game aspect right now. Yes reducing tank dmg by 30% while increasing HP of everything and dmg of other classes by 30+% was great idea right... /clap BW I hope ile manage to hold my agro now coz it seems that they swaped places of ****** guardian and awesome shadow.

[Levity]

In my BH/DG gear, I parse 1.9-2.1k dmg on raid bosses now ( at 50 since I don't have the expac for another 3 days). That's a 200-300 dps increase from doing 1700-1800. When I first went on the PTS in March the force regen. was crap, and it seemed that they were expecting people to stack absurd amounts of alacrity which would (overall) lower dps despite the lowering of the GCD and skills that would be affected. Since a lot of balance spec is insta cast, there's almost no use for alacrity ( maybe 40 points worth if that). Especially since your FiB stacks stay on a lot longer then before, I had it timed that I would hit FiB just as sever force and FB were both ended and I just threw them back on, so lowering the CD of FiB offers a little advantage because you can use FiB more, but no point since you will still have 7-10 stacks to eat through and getting 3-4 more double strikes in while your force is regenning showed a lot more dps then those extra FiB's.

 

Overall the class is not gimped imo, as long as you still play the class smart. It also offers you the ability to beat everyone in AOE dmg. I have had times where in my parses I've stayed at 8-12k dmg aoe wise, usually dropping to around 5-6k when there's only 1-2 mobs left, but still seeing those numbers is quite awesome. I have never seen my FiB hit as hard as it is now.

 

When I get 55 I will test the use of alacrity, when I did it on the PTS it actually helped(back in March) since the regen for force was horrendous, but all math aside because I don't have the patience (I still retain my rotation with high parse numbers and I don't drop below 50 force until execute phase and I add in spinning strike), I don't think alacrity will be a useful stat for the balance tree other then a mere 2% if that, since the force regen. seems pretty good right now.

 

Oh one more note, Mind crush procs less I've noticed. I'm not sure if that's because I'm playing with statted armor tuned for pre. 2.0 or not. My crit is at 31% buffed, my surge is at 76. something % and my bonus dmg is 700 with stim. My primary dmg is 1150-1400. I don't like it proccing less >.> That thing hits hard. But anyway, even with the new crit deal, it seems 30% crit for balance still is effective. Any word on this? I would probably switch out my crit mods for those sweet high willpower + power mods if crit isn't worth it anymore.

 

Overall, the class has become less intensive single target, but offers a lot of fun for AOE type fights. (The rotation and dmg you see is just thrilling). But as for dmg. I don't see there being a problem in a raid setting. I will know more at 55 when I get the new gears.