2.0 PVP viability

[Boomer-]

Can some of the PT's who understand the changes sum up how the pyro or hybrid specs do compared to now in 2.0? I'm wondering about things such as dps, burst, and survivability.

 

I've read the changes but I don't play a PT so I can't compare to how they are doing now.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Boomer-

[MarkXXIV]

I am trying to find out the same thing.

[Burgdawg]

Stop being pu$$ies and roll full tank spec in pvp...

[Tarelther]

Stop being pu$$ies and roll full tank spec in pvp...

 

Looking over the skill tree changes, I dare say that this might actually work.

[ceelaniri]

Can some of the PT's who understand the changes sum up how the pyro or hybrid specs do compared to now in 2.0? I'm wondering about things such as dps, burst, and survivability.

 

I've read the changes but I don't play a PT so I can't compare to how they are doing now.

 

I can comment for Pyro spec, more survivability with Hydraulic Manipulation a bit mitigated with the loss of Energy Rebounder.

 

The burst is reduced with the nerf to CGC and TD but it is somewhat offset to some extent with the inclusion of FB in Firebug.

 

The self heal is more useful than it used to be (not hard hehe).

[mfourcustom]

Pyro dps is now pretty much obsolete.. every other dps class in the game has great burst.. our burst is nerfed to the point that its pretty much gone, we cant keep up with any other dps classes our TTK is sooooo slow compared to the other classes.. and to top it all off our tank tree is still subpar to the other two tanking classes in the game. As far as PVP goes all we had was our great burst damage we don't have that now so unless the devs grow some brains and roll back these stupid nerfs your PT or VG has no place in pvp we are now the new commandos..

 

Oh and might I add Mercs and commandos can pull off 8 and 9k demo rounds now! ya because thats pure balance Bioware..

[ceelaniri]

Pyro dps is now pretty much obsolete.. every other dps class in the game has great burst.. our burst is nerfed to the point that its pretty much gone, we cant keep up with any other dps classes our TTK is sooooo slow compared to the other classes.. and to top it all off our tank tree is still subpar to the other two tanking classes in the game. As far as PVP goes all we had was our great burst damage we don't have that now so unless the devs grow some brains and roll back these stupid nerfs your PT or VG has no place in pvp we are now the new commandos..

 

Oh and might I add Mercs and commandos can pull off 8 and 9k demo rounds now! ya because thats pure balance Bioware..

 

After having played more WZ and other characters, i agree with this opinion.

 

killing someone on my VG is much more demanding than on my Commando and Gunslinger despite the fact I ve barely played them since they hit 50. Hitting people repeatedly for 6k+ with them is child's play while on my VG, it s nigh impossible.

 

Quite ironic in a way.

Edited April 10, 2013 by ceelaniri

[mfourcustom]

+1

 

killing someone on my VG is much more demanding than on my Commando and Gunslinger despite the fact I ve barely played them since they hit 50. Hitting people repeatedly for 7k+ with them is child's play while on my VG, it s nigh impossible.

 

Quite ironic in a way.

 

So lets face facts PTS and VGS are VERY easy to play i will never disagree with that BUT what the hell did we really have? Our burst.. thats it our defensive cooldown have always been at best a joke we have a pull thats as far as our utility goes but what made us great was that damned burst.. thats what made our class viable what got us in raids and rated pvp with the nerf to our thermal detonator/assault plastique and the nerf to our Ammo Cell what do we have? Nothing at all! we pretty much bring down Our ops groups in pvp we DIE in a matter two or three seconds I cant for the life of me understad how or why these nerfs were put in to place even more so cant understand why you would give commandos and gunsliners even MORE burst than we have ever had than just cut our burst stright out of the game and give us some crappy DOT on our TD/AP. I would be 100% FINE with this nerf if i could say " well screw it i'll tank" but we cant even match up with shadow/guardian tanks.. we are still subpar at EVERYTHING we were the king of burst why the hell couldn't we keep that?? would love to hear from a dev on why this was put in to place because as things sit right now i see no justification for these nerfs..

 

one thing i find Hilarious about all this is that with Rothc Bioware wanted to even out PvP as best thay could.. well you pretty much have for everyone BUT Vanguards and Powertechs! Gratz.. I'm not sure what it was, coulda been all the QQ on forums from bad players saying "pyros NEED TO BE NERFED" but i'll tell you one thing when playing GOOD teams and good players if two players would focus me on my vanguard.. well i was dead. This class has always been about fast hard hitting burst which to really be effective we needed a good healer keeping us up but now we don't even have our burst we got "hold the line" big help. So at the end of the day you sure did Balance out pvp buy giving commandos and slingers More burst than Vanguards and Powertechs have EVER had and you cut us out of the game. Not sure if i see that as Balance but maybe the people that run the show at BIoware should try playing their own game and their own classes in said game before saying things like " oh hey see all that QQ about powertechs, ya cut the burst!" and "well why not give commandos so much burst that they can kill someone in 3 gcds!"

guess i need to stop qqing myself but last thing i'll say is.

 

The vanguard/powertech class and pyro spec went from a glass cannon to a glass peashooter.. Every other dps class in the game went from glass cannons to glass howitzers.

 

I hope a dev ends up reading this and maybe someday in 4.666 they will fix us.

Edited April 10, 2013 by mfourcustom

[badou]

All i'm gonna say is pyro PTS and VGS are VERY easy to play i will never disagree with that BUT what the hell did we really have? Our burst.. thats it our defensive cooldown have always been at best a joke we have a pull thats as far as our utility goes but what made us great was that damned burst.. thats what made our class viable what got us in raids and rated pvp with the nerf to our thermal detonator/assault plastique and the nerf to our Ammo Cell what do we have? Nothing at all! we pretty much bring down Our ops groups in pvp we DIE in a matter two or three seconds I cant for the life of me understad how or why these nerfs were put in to place even more so cant understand why you would give commandos and gunsliners even MORE burst than we have ever had than just cut our burst stright out of the game and give us some crappy DOT on out TD/AP. I would be 100% FINE with this nerf if i could say " well screw it i'll tank" but we cant even match up with shadow/guardian tanks.. we are still subpar at EVERYTHING we were the king of burst why the hell couldn't we keep that?? would love to hear from a dev on why this was put in to place because as things sit right now i see no justification for these nerfs..

 

 

Our class and spec went from a glass cannon to a glass peashooter.. Every other dps class in the game went from glass cannons to glass howitzers..

 

Really no justification for the nerfs?you where ruling pvp from 1.2 you had almost the best burst and you whine that you got nerfed?whats next smash mokneys asking why they got nerfed?i know the nerf is big and shouldnt be but you can outdmg the full dps classes with a class that is meant to tank.The nerf was coming and it was late too the problem is the overnerf.

[ceelaniri]

Really no justification for the nerfs?you where ruling pvp from 1.2 you had almost the best burst and you whine that you got nerfed?whats next smash mokneys asking why they got nerfed?i know the nerf is big and shouldnt be but you can outdmg the full dps classes with a class that is meant to tank.The nerf was coming and it was late too the problem is the overnerf.

 

That s a worthless argument, the longevity of the efficiency of a class isnt a way to balance them. By the same token, Merc and commando should be god classes.

 

Full dps class and tank class doesnt mean anything

 

pyro and proto are dps spec, why should they not be as efficient as any other dps spec?

 

at the moment, they re subpar. That mean other classes dps better and more efficiently.

 

PT have low survivability while being in close range/ low utility and high burst. Now they dont have the high burst anymore while other classes have it on top of their other advantages. (check gunslinger, commando dps pretty well now) but not PT anymore.

 

So what do they have left now?

 

More importantly, what are they supposed to be good at?

Edited April 10, 2013 by ceelaniri

[mfourcustom]

Really no justification for the nerfs?you where ruling pvp from 1.2 you had almost the best burst and you whine that you got nerfed?whats next smash mokneys asking why they got nerfed?i know the nerf is big and shouldnt be but you can outdmg the full dps classes with a class that is meant to tank.The nerf was coming and it was late too the problem is the overnerf.

 

And Commandos who have a Healing tree can out damage pure dps classes such as slingers..so. ya.

 

If PT and VG dps HAD it all such a guardians/shadows do, Good set of defensive cooldowns, Good utility, such as leaps than i would be the first to sit here and say "we need a nerf" HELL when bioware nerfed the range on my dot and my AP and nerfed our slow i stood by it i agreeded with it.. my anger just comes from the fact that the one thing our class was good at is now gone in turn pretty much taking us out of the game... AT LEAST when commandos were in this spot they could heal well.. we even suck at PVE tanking.. so whats the point of having our class in the game.

 

Lets face it

 

Shadows-Sprint, knockback, *Pull in tank spec* they now hit STUPID hard in infiltration spec and mind you they get that sprint and knock back out of tank spec.

 

guardians- Leap, push, one 10 meter leap that ignores cover *in focus spec* and in tank spec they pretty much just pick up more CC and mind you they get that leap and push that resets there leap OUT of tank spec...

 

Vanguard- Pull *out of tank spec*, leap *in tank spec* and well.. Think thats about it.

So as you can see our burst is all we had. It was why we got in to ranked comps maybe not so much why we got in to raids but still.. I see the other two tanking classes hitting harder than ever with even MORE burst and more utility than we have ever had... see no *********** justification for killing our one good spec.

Edited April 10, 2013 by mfourcustom

[xBloodcrazed]

VG/PT is soooo bad now in pvp I got mine to 55 now i plan to shelf him while i work on my gunslinger/commando,

you could argue VG/PT is the new scrapper scoundrel only without being the best at their second role.

Edited April 10, 2013 by xBloodcrazed
add more

[Macroeconomics]

VG/PT Pyro is basically where Merc dps was in 1.2. Still very effective vs. poor players. Still effective if enemy team ignores you. Still effective if your side has a numerical advantage. Less effective than snipers, melee dps and assassin dps otherwise. Hard to compare vs. operative dps as it entirely depends on conditions. Still more effective than Merc dps.

 

So yes, 800k is still achievable in a medium length wz match (12 minutes). But those are steady state matches where no one is dying and the VG/PT can output steadily - which is what he is now. The burst dps class is now Assassins.

 

Oh, and Shoulder Cannon is bugged if you ever die with shoulder missile left unfired.

[mfourcustom]

VG/PT Pyro is basically where Merc dps was in 1.2. Still very effective vs. poor players. Still effective if enemy team ignores you. Still effective if your side has a numerical advantage. Less effective than snipers, melee dps and assassin dps otherwise. Hard to compare vs. operative dps as it entirely depends on conditions. Still more effective than Merc dps.

 

So yes, 800k is still achievable in a medium length wz match (12 minutes). But those are steady state matches where no one is dying and the VG/PT can output steadily - which is what he is now. The burst dps class is now Assassins.

 

Oh, and Shoulder Cannon is bugged if you ever die with shoulder missile left unfired.

 

yup we can still do pretty good damage over time but in the long run its all just fluff damage we cant do what we were good at anymore.. and thats droping healers and high dps targets.. we pretty much just waste spots in wzs now... Our TTK went from Great to laughable. In turn we are a hinderous to even bad pug teams you get matched up with when you solo q..

Edited April 10, 2013 by mfourcustom

[Aetrus]

Yeah. I haven't hit 55 yet, but I was playing with my lvl 50 (now 51) PT all yesterday. I still put up the highest numbers in every WZ, unless a sniper or gunslinger were in there (what a broken class this patch.) Numbers are nice, but its exactly like the old 8/8/25 build - you're not actually killing anything, because you have zero burst. I looked at the numbers and was like, huh...this might not be so bad at 55.

 

Then I played my Deception Sin. Got lower numbers, but only because I had to choose who to hit. And when I singled them out, they were dead in 4 GCDs. That is burst. That is scary. My PT doesn't feel scary at all.

 

I haven't rolled a merc/commando so I can't comment on their DPS compared to PTs, but it wouldn't surprise me if their burst and kill potential was significantly higher.

[mfourcustom]

Yeah. I haven't hit 55 yet, but I was playing with my lvl 50 (now 51) PT all yesterday. I still put up the highest numbers in every WZ, unless a sniper or gunslinger were in there (what a broken class this patch.) Numbers are nice, but its exactly like the old 8/8/25 build - you're not actually killing anything, because you have zero burst. I looked at the numbers and was like, huh...this might not be so bad at 55.

 

Then I played my Deception Sin. Got lower numbers, but only because I had to choose who to hit. And when I singled them out, they were dead in 4 GCDs. That is burst. That is scary. My PT doesn't feel scary at all.

 

I haven't rolled a merc/commando so I can't comment on their DPS compared to PTs, but it wouldn't surprise me if their burst and kill potential was significantly higher.

 

Take this for what it is.. Buddy a mine who i play with alot has a Commando and i watched him Kill a jug, granted this jug didn't have sabor ward up in 3 gcds. PvP has turned in to EVERYONE has burst which, ok thats fine whatever BUT why did we have our burst taken away? the numbers are there yes but if we are not gonna kill anyone were no better than some tab doting OP we hold no place in high lvl rated pvp anymore. We should have just had our burst buffed like everyone else so we were still good at somthing.. now we are useless at everything.

Edited April 10, 2013 by mfourcustom

[TheronFett]

Former PT Pyro here.

 

I was actually the first PT on my server to hit 50, and was facerolling before Pyro became FOTM. After awhile, it got old. I still have little respect for PT Pyros because it literally takes no skill to play. I switched to Shieldtech about 6 months into the game and never looked back. 300k damage/300k protection is average for me with a decent team backing me up.

 

The 2.0 changes have made Shieldtech even better. Respec. You won't be disappointed.

[oakamp]

Really no justification for the nerfs?you where ruling pvp from 1.2 you had almost the best burst and you whine that you got nerfed?

stupid opinion,

pt is sux after patch 1.4,

pt is only good for pve just in hm tfb,

pt didnt have much enjoy time,

and when i encounter a pt in wz, i dont feel it is hard to kill by other class,

serious, pt nerf too much, but i still cant do early access,

if pt is really sux more, ill quit.

[mfourcustom]

stupid opinion,

pt is sux after patch 1.4,

pt is only good for pve just in hm tfb,

pt didnt have much enjoy time,

and when i encounter a pt in wz, i dont feel it is hard to kill by other class,

serious, pt nerf too much, but i still cant do early access,

if pt is really sux more, ill quit.

 

^^+1 bw ****ed our class..

[Tarelther]

Seriously, try out Shield Tech. It takes awhile to get used to because you have to watch everything, enemies, allies and health bars at the same time. It's very rewarding to play though knowing you turned that 7k smash into 2.4k and completely saved your teammate from certain death.

[oberyn]

...... but you can outdmg the full dps classes with a class that is meant to tank..

 

when u post smthing like that, just proves the point that u don't have damn clue what are u talking about ...

[mfourcustom]

Lets just put this thread to bed and call it at what it is AS A PT tank you are subpar to the other tank classes.. why play it you are not viable outside of playing bad stupid noobs. As a dps you are still gonna do damage buts its all gonna be useless fluff damage and your TTK is sooooo slow you are not viable you are a waste of a spot to a gunsliner or mando. Its gg for those of us that valued our vgs for our great burst for high lvl end game pvp.

 

 

-GG

Edited April 11, 2013 by mfourcustom

[The_FLIPmode]

Maybe, just maybe, we could get to 55 first and get the new gear and THEN see how we compare versus other classes? People are jumping the gun too quickly IMO.

[Ottoattack]

Already did, and Pyro Tech sucks. Weak dps and low Survivability. Any other class will out dps you with ease. Still least useful tank.

[Grobiou]

I play AP but I have a friend upset about the Pyro changes. I was checking his logs and asked him to let me play his pyro for a while. I had to change a lot of hotkeys, of course. After some time testing, I queued for WZs, played around 10 WZs. On most matches if I wasn't the focus of the enemy I was able to climb to the top 4 in total damage in a consistent way. After checking the new logs I found this distribution on DPS:

 

%25.4 Burning (Tech)

%18.6 Flame Burst

%10.4 Explosive Dart

%9.1 Rail Shot

%7.3 Rocket Punch

%6.9 Thermal Detonator

%4.7 Incendiary Missile

%4.3 Unload

%3.8 Pyroshield

%3.1 Shoulder cannon

%2.9 Rapidshoots

%1.9 Flamesweep

... other damage...

 

The way that I see it, the spec is harder to use than AP. It feels like the damage output good, can't say that it's outstanding. The spec takes some less damage to kill. Was easy to overheat at first.

 

I saw some good damage when maximized the use of Rocket Punch also less overheat. It hit hard and have more chances to trigger the free Railshot than Flame Burst. Flame burst is a must on the rotation, just that it's better to hit Rocket Punch when possible. To make sure you hit your Rocket Punch, the spec have 3 escapes from snares/root and auto snare with the CGC plus the harpoon. When rocket punch was not possible then Upload was the way to go or Death from Above if the enemy was clustered. Thermal Detonator and Incendiary Missile when the target was 50% HP. It looks like doesn't worth much the heat without the 30% damage bonus on targets below 30% HP. Overall the spec looks good, just need more buttons to be hit. Maybe I will switch from AP to Pyro for more testing.

 

Hope this helps.