Still No Endgame?

[Josewales]

I was hoping BW would bring in an actual endgame with the new Xpack. But looks like not. I am so tired of new gen MMOs disguising a few instances and same ol' dailies as endgame....be it pvp or pve. Before WoW, endgame usually meant open world immersion and always something different to do week in and week out. Only reason why I will keep on subbing to SWTOR is because I really enjoy my gunslinger in pvp....but one cant grind the same WFs day in and day out after one has is full WH gear. Pretty sad that once in awhile I log in and go to Blackhole to kill a few mobs just to enjoy the pistols and log back out to another MMO.

 

To combat the boredom due to lack of SWTOR endgame, I play 2 MMOs.

 

I dont blame BW, but I do blame Blizzard for messing up endgames ever since. I was just hoping for more in the new Xpack. It's been years since I was addicted to an endgame that grabbed a hold of me for at least a year....Doac, SWG, AO, etc....each one had real endgame that one could never put down.

 

Oh well...maybe one year the MMO wheel will get reinvented. Until then...

 

'Dyin' ain't much of a living, boy.'

[Devlonir]

Give me one example of this "always something new to do week in week out" endgame of old games you mentioned?

 

Oh, and hint; grinding of any kind does NOT fit that bill.

 

You will realise that all MMO's had nothing but repeating content to get something new and shiney in the end. For some it was merely repeating content through other activities than raiding or PVP. Crafting and materials gathering was a very popular thing in old MMO.

 

Still, that is repeating the same content to get a specific end result. Only real difference is, for Ops and PVP endgame you actually need other players. Oldschool endgame was just made easier with other players, but no-lifers were able to solo grind all that stuff as well.

 

Only difference is that modern MMO streamlined it to Ops and PVP, which get refreshed regularly through new Operations or Flashpoints in PvE or new seasons in PVP.

 

Only real MMO where you can really do different things and be completely creative in that exists is Second Life. All others are just 'grind for this predetermined thing' kind of gameplay. With the only difference being how you grind for them.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Devlonir

[LovarBoy]

Endgame in SW:TOR is rare and poor, yep. Unfortunately.

[Arkerus]

Provide specific examples of exactly what you are looking for. Your post is worthless without it.

 

If they don't make sense in this game then be prepared to be disappointed.

[HanStyle]

Its not like that anymore, check dulfy.net, we have 2 new time consuming quests at end game meaning macrobinocular/seeker droid quests. I hope they make a difference for you

[Apeth]

I disagree. I think there's tonnes of end game and even more to come in the expansion.

[Mercia]

Name another MMO thats has more end game with specific examples or just do one!!!

 

This has as much as anything else out there maybe more do you need babysitting into doing everything in game ?????

 

Worthless post by an ever more worthless player

[LovarBoy]

Name another MMO thats has more end game with specific examples or just do one!!!

 

* World of Warcraft - Raids by groups, raids by LFR, Pet Battles, Arena, Rated Battlegrounds, Normal PvP

 

* Rift - The same as above + excellent housing

 

* Lord of the Rings Online - the same as above with a much smaller PvP component

 

* Aion - quite small PvE Endgame component but housing + huge PvP

 

 

You want more? SW:TOR endgame is still laughable.

[Devlonir]

* World of Warcraft - Raids by groups, raids by LFR, Pet Battles, Arena, Rated Battlegrounds, Normal PvP

 

* Rift - The same as above + excellent housing

 

* Lord of the Rings Online - the same as above with a much smaller PvP component

 

* Aion - quite small PvE Endgame component but housing + huge PvP

 

 

You want more? SW:TOR endgame is still laughable.

 

And none of those have a rail shooter space game.

[Josewales]

HUh? I just did...SWG, AO, Daoc are great examples of endgame. Okay for those who were spawned out of a WoW box...common theme. PvP and PVE interacted together with the rest of the game...by choice or trained. Instead of me doing the history lesson for all of ya, feel free to free trial on whats left of the old skools and see for yourself. Serious, for those who think a few instances and dailies make up endgame are very limited in MMO experience or narrow minded. The new gen MMOs are meant for the LAN or Xbox mindset..I get it it. But there was a day when MMOs meant the mass interacting as one and not trained into isolated pockets with friends. Before players knew each other across the board mostly due to how endgame was set up...that is what MMOs were meant for. Not LANs and Xboxes.

 

Okay I can give you a teaser....Daoc, AO, SWG, etc...all involved realm/faction cooperating with each other for endgame loots or open pvp. I myself used to tank for AO mercs as example, where the community was mature enough to run their own raidbot system for bidding. That I dont expect in today's 12 yr old activity...but is a great example of a component to immersive endgame. Always something different to do....lots! Be it knocking off an open world boss, or helping another guild defend their bases or towers....each day brought a different objective or task.

 

Now before you all think your know better...sthu and do your homework. And I am not talking about getting lost in their noob grounds for a free trial and calling it experience. Spend an actual year with their endgames and then come back and talk.

 

All I am asking for is for a more dynamic and interactive open endgame....that simple. Gree event or a few new pieces of loot doesnt fool me and am sure other old skools dont also. And yes a few of us old skool or preWoW will always look down on the new gen and wow spawns...for such reasons.

 

TY and sorry for any zing I brought upon yas:)

 

Cheers.

[JPryde]

* World of Warcraft - Raids by groups, raids by LFR, Pet Battles, Arena, Rated Battlegrounds, Normal PvP

hmm... in SWTOR, we got Raids by groups, raids by LFR, Rated Battlegrounds, Normal PvP.

We also got datacrons, world bosses, dailys, a twink-system, where you actually got a reason to twink, and soon there will be two kind of daily time-wastes, where you get a new reason to spend time on many planets again, which your 50-toon did not visit for months.

 

Doesn't look like "still no endgame" to me at all.

 

As for SWG, AO and DAOC.... they all got exactly zero endgame, if you do not like PvP.

Edited April 3, 2013 by JPryde

[Icebergy]

* World of Warcraft - Raids by groups, raids by LFR, Pet Battles, Arena, Rated Battlegrounds, Normal PvP

 

SWTOR has all of those except pet battles (lol) and arena (imo the worst thing ever added to WoW). Plus SWTOR has space missions and two more things coming next week.

[Mercia]

SWTOR has all of those except pet battles (lol) and arena (imo the worst thing ever added to WoW). Plus SWTOR has space missions and two more things coming next week.

 

+1

 

Yup pretty much everything this failure listed swtor has yet they seem to blindly ignore them

 

Also i would rather take a rail shooter than pokemon any day of the week

 

Please try harder trolls if areanas is the only thing you can come up with for wow having that swtor dosnt then im sorry but that is pathetic

 

Maybe you fell asleep in 2011 and woke up now? thats the only explanation i can fathom

Edited April 3, 2013 by Mercia

[Andryah]

...SWG, AO, Daoc are great examples of endgame......<snip>......All I am asking for is for a more dynamic and interactive open endgame....that simple.

 

SWG... lol... right.. endgame spectacular

AO..... still there.. go play it.

DAoC....still there... go play it.

 

I see your problem... you have a very narrow definition of what = endgame for you. That's on you.

 

Stopy whining about an MMO not meeting your needs. Go play the one that does meet your needs. It's not rocket science.

 

That said... if you are fixated on AO/DAoC style endgame... you are going to be a sad sad panda for a long time to come. The genre moved on....move with it or face MMO extinction.

 

I play multiple MMOs, and have for years. Why? because I learned early on that no MMO can be all things to all people or fill all of my broad needs for MMO play. But you don't hear me whining and QQing about it. I take responsibility for seeking and aquiring the diversity of MMO play I desire. I suggest you do something along the same lines.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Andryah

[TUXs]

Provide specific examples of exactly what you are looking for. Your post is worthless without it.

 

If they don't make sense in this game then be prepared to be disappointed.

 

This!!!

 

Provide examples, not just a rant. You may have a valid point OP, but...I'm not entirely sure what you're looking for...?! The planetary dailies count imo, as do the daily PvP and FP/GF missions...So maybe if you were a little more exact, it would help.

[uziforyou]

HUh? I just did...SWG, AO, Daoc are great examples of endgame. Okay for those who were spawned out of a WoW box...common theme. PvP and PVE interacted together with the rest of the game...by choice or trained. Instead of me doing the history lesson for all of ya, feel free to free trial on whats left of the old skools and see for yourself. Serious, for those who think a few instances and dailies make up endgame are very limited in MMO experience or narrow minded. The new gen MMOs are meant for the LAN or Xbox mindset..I get it it. But there was a day when MMOs meant the mass interacting as one and not trained into isolated pockets with friends. Before players knew each other across the board mostly due to how endgame was set up...that is what MMOs were meant for. Not LANs and Xboxes.

 

Okay I can give you a teaser....Daoc, AO, SWG, etc...all involved realm/faction cooperating with each other for endgame loots or open pvp. I myself used to tank for AO mercs as example, where the community was mature enough to run their own raidbot system for bidding. That I dont expect in today's 12 yr old activity...but is a great example of a component to immersive endgame. Always something different to do....lots! Be it knocking off an open world boss, or helping another guild defend their bases or towers....each day brought a different objective or task.

 

Now before you all think your know better...sthu and do your homework. And I am not talking about getting lost in their noob grounds for a free trial and calling it experience. Spend an actual year with their endgames and then come back and talk.

 

All I am asking for is for a more dynamic and interactive open endgame....that simple. Gree event or a few new pieces of loot doesnt fool me and am sure other old skools dont also. And yes a few of us old skool or preWoW will always look down on the new gen and wow spawns...for such reasons.

 

TY and sorry for any zing I brought upon yas:)

 

Cheers.

 

So, bottomline SWTOR doesn't meet your expectations but some other MMO's do. Then the solution is simple, go play those other games.

 

Nothing to see here, move along.

[bibobpipop]

Out of curiosity:

 

What did a "good" endgame look like in "the good old days of MMO"? I can't really imagine anything that would bind me for years...

[LovarBoy]

+1

 

Yup pretty much everything this failure listed swtor has yet they seem to blindly ignore them

 

Also i would rather take a rail shooter than pokemon any day of the week

 

Please try harder trolls if areanas is the only thing you can come up with for wow having that swtor dosnt then im sorry but that is pathetic

 

Maybe you fell asleep in 2011 and woke up now? thats the only explanation i can fathom

 

Oh, I don't ignore them, but they are quite obsolete at all. It's about the amount of content and you can't compare. And no, actual endgame content in WoW, Rift etc. is not years old and could grow...

 

The SW:TOR raids are small and not that competing.

 

You called me a "failure"? *lol*

 

SWTOR has all of those except pet battles (lol) and arena (imo the worst thing ever added to WoW). Plus SWTOR has space missions and two more things coming next week.

 

Pet battles is - yeah if you laugh about it do that - a big new bunch of content in WoW and it's entertaining at all. And it's 1000 times more complex then the rail shooter here ( despite that it's no endgame content at all ).

 

hmm... in SWTOR, we got Raids by groups, raids by LFR, Rated Battlegrounds, Normal PvP.

We also got datacrons, world bosses, dailys, a twink-system, where you actually got a reason to twink, and soon there will be two kind of daily time-wastes, where you get a new reason to spend time on many planets again, which your 50-toon did not visit for months.

 

Doesn't look like "still no endgame" to me at all.

 

Datacrons and Codex are no endgame content - I did not list artifacts or achievements like in Rift or WoW for that reason - but if you do that, Datacrons are still a astonishing small part in comparison.

 

Every MMO got Dailies, I didn't list them, too. Legacy system as a reason to twink... yeah, sure.

___________

 

But by far I am the wrong person to discuss about endgame content, just ask the thousands and thousands of people that left the game because of that... missing end game ( diversity ). It's the last "real" problem that could be easily solved, but isn't. Unfortunately it isn't.

 

So please don't be rude and call me a failure or somebody else "worthless" when there are examples brought to the topic.

Edited April 3, 2013 by LovarBoy

[Devlonir]

TY and sorry for any zing I brought upon yas:)

 

Cheers.

 

Naw, you only zinged yourself by completely missing my point. Those activities you mention were nothing but grind, often soloable grinds even that were only made easier by doing it with others.

 

At least Ops and Warzones actually need other people to do it, instead of only make the tasks easier by doing it together. So actually, by that definition, these modern games that get blamed being "single player MMO's" actually are more multi player than those you mention.

 

Point is: Any MMO endgame is grind. Just grind in different flavours. I prefer grinding Ops, Warzones and Flashpoints as that's less repetitive than the activities you described in my perception. Yes, it's the same Ops, Warzones and Flashpoints over and over again, but each of those takes a wider variety of activites than, say, material node farming does.

 

In the end, all endgame content is about time sinks. Farming 200 nodes for materials, or 20000 mobs for a rare drop takes a certain amount of time, as does farming 10 flashpoints does. Both have the same results eventually: giving you the goodies you want.

 

One is not more "different and diverse and challenging" than the other, because the only REAL challenge is the time you are able to invest with it. Where Flashpoints and Operations actually force you to spend it with others, and node farming is a solo activity made easier by a community and a market of items. Both different ways of having a multiplayer experience.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Devlonir

[soulseekerr]

Actually, I have no complaints about endgame content in SWTOR. In fact, I'd rate it better than WoW currently.

 

Sounds to me like the OP wants some sort of sandbox MMO experience. To each his/her own, I guess. Might I suggest FFXI or Eve Online, in that case? But both of those are as grindy as you can get for MMO's, imo.

[cidbahamut]

Actually, I have no complaints about endgame content in SWTOR. In fact, I'd rate it better than WoW currently.

 

Sounds to me like the OP wants some sort of sandbox MMO experience. To each his/her own, I guess. Might I suggest FFXI or Eve Online, in that case? But both of those are as grindy as you can get for MMO's, imo.

 

I don't know why you would suggest FFXI to anyone. I played that game for three years and I still can't figure out what I saw in it.

Edited April 3, 2013 by cidbahamut

[Devlonir]

But by far I am the wrong person to discuss about endgame content, just ask the thousands and thousands of people that left the game because of that... missing end game ( diversity ). It's the last "real" problem that could be easily solved, but isn't. Unfortunately it isn't.

Yes, and they left because they wanted SWG kind of 'endgame'.. No they did not.

 

It was literally: "Not enough raids!" "We are done with karaggas and SOA after 3 hours a week!!" and the famous "Already full Rakata and nothing more to achieve!!"

 

So no, it is all about the content types we already have, not some new 'sanboxy' stuff people want. Many MMO players have become content locusts. And this game just burned them out faster than any other because the developer team did not take that set of players and how vocal they are into account. But each and every MMO out there has them. Heck, even single player games do.. people who finish the game in one full day sitting and then complain it was too short.

 

You will not get those players back with player housing. They are the ones that come back for 1 month with each content patch and then move on again.

[TUXs]

But by far I am the wrong person to discuss about endgame content, just ask the thousands and thousands of people that left the game because of that... missing end game ( diversity ). It's the last "real" problem that could be easily solved, but isn't. Unfortunately it isn't.

 

So please don't be rude and call me a failure or somebody else "worthless" when there are examples brought to the topic.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about SWTOR lacking "end game", but if you're going to complain about it, list some freaking things YOU would like to see!!!

 

I'd like more Ops. I want PLAYER housing! I want customization that comes free of charge. I want open world PvP missions to random planets and random planetary 'events' that bring players from all over. GUILD functions!!! Non-combat activities.

 

Those MILLIONS of players who have left this game, all did it for various reasons...not all of it was end game, much of it was lack of anything "unique" or new here, or hell, lack of anything AS GOOD here...SWTOR isn't even "vanilla", it's "plain" - your entire progression 1-50(55) is pre-mapped and all you do is follow it. The "voices" simply didn't make the horrifically generic content more enjoyable to most people.

 

I understand why people left, it's not just "end game" - but I can also list what I feel would make the game better and what "end game" means to me.

[HoloTweed]

Did someone REALLY suggest "Player Housing" as ENDGAME?

[TUXs]

Did someone REALLY suggest "Player Housing" as ENDGAME?

 

Trust me, if you don't think it is, you're mistaken. It's "customization". It's allowing players a chance to customize the game world and show it off. It may not be your chosen activity, but I assure you, nearly every player would have housing and they'd almost all decorate it to some extent. It's "down-time/non-combat" activity...and it's hugely popular.

 

It allows players to display their in-game accomplishments too...a virtual trophy case.

Edited April 3, 2013 by TUXs